A little help to save a lot of pain later

[Oldboy]

As a green newbe I could use the advice of the older wiser members. Guess what; I want to purchase a telescope for general moon, stars, DSO viewing; where do I start. The "minister of war" has put the foot down and curtailed the available funds to some extent (sub $500.00 if I cajol enough) so what should I be buying, reflector, refractor, dobs and more importantly for me where from? I'm in Tassie and as far as I can tell there are no speciality astronomy shops in this state. I've done some research and the only thing that appears totally consistant is to avoid at all cost the general retail, outdoors, camera shop scopes - HELP PLSE:confused: :confused:

[toetoe]

G'day and welcome aboard Oldboy. :thumbsup: for 500.00 you can get yourself up and going with out to much trouble. Have you got any binocs as that is a good starting point before you get a telescope. I myself will leave the scope answers to the other guys as they are more up to thing than what i am as i am only new to this caper as well. Any way good to have you here in IIS and just ask away and i am sure we can help out one way or another..

[davidpretorius]

easy, there are four of here in launceston, so welcome!

i am happy to show you what a $774 10" newtonian reflector with a dobsonian mount can do, photon and moonman have 8" versions similiar to this one https://www.bintelshop.com.au/Product.aspx?ID=6739

please private mail me and we can sort a time to catch up.

we will be getting together september 30th when the new moon is out.

there is enough equipment there with scopes, eyepieces & imaging to give you a good spread of what you can expect for your hard earned $$$

you are right, i went thru this in june, there is nothing in tasmania. you will have to buy from the mainland. do not worry, as the guys on this site are great and will help you heaps

[elusiver]

:welcome:

3 words: get a dob.

best bang for your buck for you budget. there are a couple of tassie members who i'm sure would welcome u to an obs session so u can see what u'r in for before u buy. (sorry tassie members for speaking for u :P )

u can get an 8" incher within u'r budget, which is an awesome scope on a rock solid base for that sort of money. i'm sure the dob brigade will be all over this before too long so best leave it too them. :P ;)

el :)

[davidpretorius]

i think there are now enough tasmanians here to have their own private break away forum called

T.H.I.S


two heads in space!!!

[toetoe]

Oh i forgot to tell you Oldboy, watch out for the dobbie boys :poke: ;) :D

[asimov]

Well, being an EQ guy myself, a dob is a logical choice? You won't get a quality EQ mount with a newtonian reflector sitting on it for 500 smackers :P

[acropolite]

Welcome Oldboy, just what we need another Launcestonian... $500 is a slim budget. I suggest you withdraw in to a bout of (simulated) depression until the Minister for Household finances ups the budget to a figure that will allow a 10 inch Dob (preferably the deluxe model). If not an 8 inch would be fine but there's no substitute for aperture. As for dealers the best prices are from Andrews and Bintel. My preference is with Bintel, as they check and collimate the scope before despatch and have fully insured freight. Andrews on the other hand have many satisfied customers, however as this thread shows, they tend to be hard to deal with if you have a problem. http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=3893
If you can wait, come along to our next monthly get together and check out an 8 & 10 inch dob or be tempted to cross over to the dark side (and risk divorce) by going for a go-to type scope. What ever you do don't buy without discussing your choices with others as there are some decisions that can be made at purchase that will save money later (e.g. selection and type of EP's)....:D

[rmcpb]

Welcome OldBoy, get an 8" dob and you are away. But first have a look at at in the Tassie viewing night, they are bigger than they look in photos.

[Oldboy]

Thanks for the info can you advise if the Bintel dobs comes from the same manufacturer as the Andrews (Guan Sheng??)

[Starkler]

Yes Oldboy they are the same beast.

[confined]

Slightly off topic, but are the Bintel Premium dobs the Guan Shengs, with BK7-CRF?

Cheers.

[janoskiss]

Andrews and Bintel dobs come from the same Taiwan factory. Bintel are a telescope shop and claim to thoroughly check every scope they sell (disassemble & reassemble if necessary), whilst Andrews seem to just sell them on as they receive them (a box-in-box-out system).

I got my 200mm/8" Dob from Andrews for $399 + $40 freight (+ $79 laser collimator, don't bother!, but I don't regret mine; good learning xrsize) .

I have some blemishes on the mirror and some other things I would like to discuss with the dealer if they'd been available and competent enough. But at the time I bought the scope, my budget was very tight so I went with Andrews.

The 8" is cheap enough to fuss over $100-200, so maybe Andrews is the way to go for you. Just don't expect to get anything broken fixed.

Another option is to get a refractor from AOE (http://www.aoe.com.au). Still on special and those guys seem great for long distance support and patiently answering question after question about the simplest product. A refractor you get from AOE might be great (maybe superior) on the planets, but will probably not have the light gathering power for some of the fainter deep sky objects one can see with an 8" Dob. Maybe you can prod AOE about their Dobs...

[Rastis]

Hi Chaps,

If more mirror size equals more Horsepower, and more horsepower equals more fun, then how could a 4 inch refractor be superior to a 8 inch dob when it comes to planetry viewing. I am also in the market for a new scope and a refractor has the added benefit of being able to be used for terrestrial viewing. So far I'm keen on the Andrews 10 inch dob, the Bintel 8 inch dob and a AOE 4 inch refractor as they are all a similar price.

[[1ponders]]

The way I understand it Rastis is because the refractor has no central obsruction the contrast is better. However there is a trade off. Unless its an apo or semi apo or ED type refractor you may find that colour fringing (chromatic aberation) around the solar system bodies, particularly the bright Moon, Venus and Jupiter, may be objectionable. Reflecting type scopes shouldn't suffer from this problem, but they may have less contrast.These are not hard and fast rules simply because the difference in quality between scopes will have a big impact. EG A good quality newt may well have better contrast than say a poor quality refractor.

Oh and one other thing. A smaller aperture scope will often be less affected by seeing conditions than a bigger aperture scope.

[ving]

hi steve, sound like you had a rough deal with andrews :( I take it that you went to them with your blemishes and got a negative response?
i got my 8" from there, its fine (thankfully).

rastis, I'd go with the 10"er. apperture wins in most cases.

[toetoe]

It is hard to make a choice Rastis with what is out there these days, just don't rush in, take your time and read up on a few reports about the telescopes you fancy, (or just get one of each) the sky is not going to dissapear on us. :thumbsup:

[davidpretorius]

Welcome Rastis,

there are others who will give you a much better answer than me.

Light gathering power for fainter objects is the way to go, ie 10" is better than 8". This is called aperture. A 10" reflector or refractor is better than a 8" reflector or refractor. When you have objects like the moon or planets that are really easy to see ie light gathering power not really an issue, the refractors are preferred for contrast.

Planets like venus and jupiter reflect so much light that when you try and image them with a camera, you have to cut the amount of light down as it is too much!

Faint objects like galaxies and nebulas, you need all the light gathering you can afford, ie a reflector on a dob mount.

Hope this helps and again welcome!

[Starkler]

A properly set up, cooled and collimated 8 inch gso dob should wipe the floor with any 4 inch refractor on planetary detail.

So much of this refractor vs reflector myth comes from the old days where good newt mirrors where rare and very expensive and the old conclusions get regurgitated so often as to be beleived as irrefutable fact. The other problem is that a lot of newt owners dont bother to check their collimation.

[aaronsadler]

It would be nice to get some more refractor owners in here (lol) but don't even consider buying one if it is poor quality, you'll ownly be disapointed.

Better not say any more or I'll start a dob-ref war. :whistle:

[davidpretorius]

wheres's asimov, he has both!

[ving]

yes indeed he does :)

[janoskiss]

No, nothing like that. I did not bother to mention it. I did not think it was worth the hassle. And it was some weeks after I got it that I discovered the flaws, when I took the mirror out for centre spotting.

Had I bought from elsewhere, I might have asked the dealer about it, but Lee at Andrews being so busy all the time and the shop not really being an astronomy shop, there's not much point.

[Rastis]

Hi Chaps,
Just to stir the pot a little, I have a **** Smith 45 dollar refractor that smokes the neighbours 114mm reflector (tasco). Looking at the full moon and Jupiter the refractor is heaps clearer, though the Tasco mount is far better.I was surprised how well the **** Smith special performed considering what it costs. Be a bugger if I buy a 10 incher and its not as good!
Have a nice day.

[square_peg114GT]

What he said.


And times 2 for DSOs.

[janoskiss]

I still have the Dork Smith 114mm reflector (just like your neighbour's tasco), and it is a very poor quality telescope. I agree the 60mm refractor is much better. :) But an 8 or 10" Dob (and I guess the 6" too) are well designed scopes and will show you lots more detail.

[aaronsadler]

I woudn't say that, mine does pretty good

:whistle:

[ving]

you shouldnt not ask cause the guys busy. you'll find lee a reasonable guy if you talk to him.

[astro_south]

Rastis

There is no fear that a 10" scope wouldn't "smoke" a $45 DS refractor and a 114mm Tasco. The other critical thing about looking at the planets (and recognising detail) is resolution. The bigger the aperture, the more the resolving power. The contrast loss from the central obstruction (secodary mirror) really only holds for similar or near similar apertures. For instance my 4" short tube achromat refractor shows me about the same level of detail on the planets as my 6" f5 newt reflector. My 12.5" newt reflector "smokes" both of these on any night looking at the planets (Jupiter, Saturn, Mars) and the moon.

[slice of heaven]

:welcome: Oldboy.
Aperture rules.
A larger aperture will resolve more detail than a smaller aperture.
It's just a matter of deciding how big and what configuration you'll be comfortable with.