von Humbolt's Inspiring Description of the Southern Cross

[Enchilada]

In my earlier post, I recalled the book "Cosmos" by Alexander von Humbolt about the term astrognosy. As it seems some have decided to read portions of this, I thought of some other Humboldt related material which came to mind and might interest some ISSers here.
This is to do with von Humbolt's more famous work "Personal Narrative of Travels to the Equinoctial Regions of America : During the Years 1799-1804" (1852) By Alexander von Humboldt and the French botanist Aimé Jacques Alexandre Bonpland. Originally written in French, there is a translation printed at the Adelaide University site. http://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/h/humboldt/alexander/travels/chapter3.html

Here within Chapter 3, is his famous description of the Southern Cross.
The whole text of this chapter is a little lengthy, but a simple search from your web browser will find the text searching under "Southern Cross" on this web page.
The famous part starts with the preceding paragraph, whose first sentance is; "From the time we entered the torrid zone, we were never weary of admiring, at night, the beauty of the southern sky, which, as we advanced to the south, opened new constellations to our view."
This description concludes after six paragraphs.
An interesting America translated and published version appears at; http://www.geology.19thcenturyscience.org/books/1852-Humboldt-Travels/Vol-I/htm/doc.html , which can be read on pg. 134 and 135.

All very stirring stuff.

If you are after other information by von Humboldt on astronomical phenomena, Chapter X (10) pg.342-360 is quite action packed with astronomical phenomena seen in South America during the end of 1799. A Lunar Eclipse, Earthquakes, aurora, and long narration of "extraordinary meteors" (the latter being the Leonids.)
I.e.
1) Adelaide Uni Site (entire text on one page)
http://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/h/humboldt/alexander/travels/chapter10.html
or
2) American individual pages;
http://www.geology.19thcenturyscience.org/books/1852-Humboldt-Travels/Vol-I/htm/doc.html

Does anyone here have other astronomical tid-bits that interest bloggers? If so, what is it and is it on-line?

Open Comment: Pity in IceinSpace there is no "Book and Literature" section in the Forums site. This would be most useful for books that can be purchased or on-line materials for amateurs to read or resource. There is a lot out there, and placing within one forum might solve questions and help others access useful stuff and such info. Just an idea. Unnecessary? Is a poll worthwhile Mike S.??

[iceman]

Not a bad idea. Unfortunately (I guess?) there's generally not a lot of discussion about astronomy books and literature so the forum might be quite under-utilised. On the other hand, it might encourage more people to post or ask questions or comment about astronomy books etc.

Will see what others think.

[Enchilada]

In the Southern Cross discussion by Humboldt, there is a Latin quote by Dante. The English translation for this is;

"I turned me to the right hand, and gave heed
to the other pole, and saw four stars,
never seen save by the first people.

The heavens appeared to rejoice in their flamelets.
O widowed northern region,
since thou art deprived of beholding these!"

[Enchilada]

Just other little thoughts to likely aid some positive discussion.


It could be put under a Sub-Forum like your Observation Reports.
It might also generate an additional group or sub-group of different kind of astronomical clientele.
On-line Book Reviews or Sales
Searching for discontinued or out-of-print books.
Doing basic research looking for on-line astronomical literature for articles or observations
Discussing or finding various useful astronomical papers available from the Astronomical Database Service (ADS) (http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abstract_service.html), which also contains many papers from the 19th and 20th Century. (These are free for personal use.) Not all are complex, and those of the 19th Century have many useful and enlightening observational descriptions.

[Enchilada]

I found a copyright free version of the document. The translation was done in 1858, so I don't see how it could be claimed by others when it was written so long ago. If there is a serious problem, I'll immediately just remove this extract. :thumbsup:

[Tommy Camp]

Imagine being part of one of these journeys in the earlier times.
would have been incredible.

[ngcles]

Hi Enchilada & All,

Thanks for posting the link Enchilada. The accounts of von Humboldt's observations (on all things, not just the astronomy related stuff) are very detailed and precise but equally beautifully expressed with an almost "innocent" air of wonderment.

It is old scientific "literature" at its very best -- a very easy and compelling read. It is interesting to also see his thoughts in Ch 10 on p9 2nd par about how he sees the possibility of Astronomy progressing so much further in the tropics etc.

Thanks very much again -- a very interesting read and I will explore more !


Best,

Les D

[Dog Star]

I personally find this stuff fascinating and would very much like to see a sub-forum dedicated to astronomical literature.:thumbsup:
Seems to me that it very much falls under the general mandate of an astronomy forum/web site.
That's a definite "yes"vote from me!

[astroron]

I enjoyed the read.
Thankyou.

[Blue Skies]

I'll add my yes vote as well. I suppose it would only attract a dedicated few but I'd be interested to learn more. I'm slowly compiling info on constellations, star names and asterisms and finding older info is a bit beyond me at the moment (not sure where to turn for the 'old' stuff) and a forum like this would help (yes, I've read your pages, Andrew!)

[Enchilada]

When I happily wrote about having a possible little section on "Books and Literature", I was particularly influenced, then agreeing with, von Humboldt's following thoughtful words;

"At a period when I studied the heavens, not with the intention of devoting myself to astronomy, but only to acquire a knowledge of the stars, I was disturbed by a feeling unknown to those who are devoted to sedentary life. It was painful to me to renounce the hope of beholding the beautiful constellations near the south pole. Impatient to rove in the equinoctial regions, I could not raise my eyes to the starry firmament without thinking of the Southern Cross..."

Moreover, I was directly inspired by Central Australian DogStar (Phil) thread "Why is it so?", when he replied to a Kevnool very literal interpretation of what defines an amateur astronomer. DogStar's reply was profound; "I'm asking what path you go down and why?"

This is generally why I posted these great references to von Humboldt, these questions are somewhat answered - defining both parts of DogStar's thought. (I was also somewhat terrified by gaa_ian (Ian) thread "Quit Astronomy - I've turned to weather watching".)

IMO, knowledge about astronomy is actually not only just acquired by experience or by shared spoken words (Q&A), but by what someone inspiringly has personally written, expressed, felt (as the quote above says so brilliantly) or being struck by the sheer beauty and wonderment that we call the Heavens.

von Humboldt understood this point very well, and his word astrognosy usefully describes the twilight transition between the hard science of astronomy and the uninitiated novice - the casual observer or what we now term amateur astronomers. He also knew, like many here, that feeling or drive expressed from the compelling urge of stargazing and the common addiction that it usually causes. In Humboldt's view, it was the Southern Cross - but in fact it could be any astronomical body of merit. I.e. Alpha Centauri, the LMC or SMC, etc.

Without being disrespectful to other IISers here, how often do I read of some rehashed view or idea, then have knowingly avoiding saying something of some little tid-bit of hidden knowledge in how the original idea was acquired or learnt. In the past, I usually passed it on, but more often than not, I have only found myself as either being classed as a smart-A or one who needed to be brought down by a peg or two by the incessant crescendo of the conforming normalcy of faith in all social equality. After a while you soon learn to keep your cards to your chest and try as best you can to hold your opinion.

Now I am not wanting to be a downer about this, but there some underlying truths to this.

However the secret to this is to guide all types of amateurs to information they can learn and select out themselves - that is not verbal instantaneous opinion but, teaches the concept, and is both thoughtful and rather insightful. I am more than happy to point some newbee in the right direction or towards some useful resource, but these days I much prefer to help them to learn and discover their own directions and answers. It usefully creates much diversity in the hobby rather than mass-producing the usual bland manufactured views on what "amateur astronomers" should or should not be.

I could say much more, but I would be very interested what other tid-bits happen to inspire others.

"I might be rancid butter, but at least I'm on your side of the bread."