Another noob "which one" question.

[Crackers]

Hello all, I've been lurking around IIS for the past couple of weeks hoping to pick up enough info so that I wouldn't need to do this, but it seems the more info I get, the further from making a decision I am. What you have here is sensational and it is great to know that there are so many of you out there willing to share your knowledge and passion.

Okay, that's enough smoke blowing - here comes the questions. I want to buy my first serious telescope after messing about with some pretty dodgy ones in the past. When I started the hunt, I fell in love with the Meade ETXC-125PE. The appeal of the GoTo mount coupled with what are apparently terrific optics seemed perfect. But then I read an awful lot of complaints about the motor systems and got worried and started looking at Celestron's NexStar 6SE as the closest possible alternative to the ETX.

If I had stopped there it would have been wonderful, but I made the mistake of reading Brian's brilliant General Principles for Choosing Your First Telescope. Now I'm convinced that an 8-10" dob is the only reasonable choice and that I was a fool to consider the other two.

My question comes in multiple parts. I live in the Adelaide Hills and have reasonably dark skies (not like when I lived on the Nullabor - but still pretty good) with only the lower reaches of the Western Sky being badly light polluted. With the darker skies, do I need something as big as the dobs or would the 6" Nexstar CST show me all I need to see? Secondly, if I were to choose a dob, how easy are they to track objects with manually? I would like to keep whatever I'm looking at in the FOV for more than a few seconds.

To clarify what I want, I would like to do some moon and planetary observing, but I want something flexible enough to look at DSOs as well - a bit of an all rounder, I suppose. I have no grand objectives, I just want to discover thye wondrous universe that lurks out there.

I have a budget of about $2k which would get me just the basic setup for the ETX or NexStar, whereas I would have some play money for accessories with the dob, if someone can convince me that it's easy enough to use. Please help!

Craig

[erick]

Hi Craig and Welcome! Most people learn how to track with a dobsonian-mounted reflector at high magnifications - IF the bearings are good. Most of the commercial ones don't come with the best bearings and can be a bit difficult and jerky. Some simple attention to them - cleaning and applying silicone polish to the laminate/plastic surfaces that the teflon bearings touch can help. Better is to put in a better laminate surface ("Ebony Star") and better teflon (advice is in the threads on this site). If you are a do-it-yourself type of person, this is all straightforward. I did this and had a newbie successfully track Jupiter at several hundred magnification.

Then for a relatively small amount of money compared to your budget, you will get a great reflecting telescope with great light gathering capability (8" or 10", say). Then you can spend the rest of the money on a couple of good (several hundred dollars) eyepieces to make your observing super. The next step to save for is about $1,000 to install computerised pointing (eg. ArgoNavis system) to take the effort out of finding things in your eyepiece. The only thing missing is motorised goto (who needs that - Sheesh!) and motorised tracking (yes, nice to have), but there is an option. About $1,000 gets you an equatorial platform on which you can place the dobsonian mount and you will get 30-40 minutes of tracking of objects.

[figgylion]

As one noob to another I will tell you of my experience with my 8" Dob. I have only had it for around a month so I am hardly an expert in matters astronomical but I find that by using aides such as a good star map (the one in the AS&T magazine is quite useful), a computer program such as Stellarium and the good ole Binoculars make finding objects a little easier. Learning some constellations and brighter stars also helps.
I find my scope will give a reasonable view of solar objects and some DSO's (I'm still awestruck by views of The Orion Nebula,Saturn and 47Tuc and return to them frequently :)) I'm in a pretty light polluted area and haven't been able to try it out under dark skies so I'm hoping for even better views when I finally get a chance to do so.
My only regret is I didn't go for a larger scope (yes, aperture fever has hit me already) My 8" is easy to move around and I think a 10" wouldn't be too much more weight to lug about.
As for the budget, mine was similar to yours. The actual scope wasn't that expensive but now I'm starting to buy the accessories which are quickly becoming more expensive than the Dob.
My advice, get a Dob and work your way up from there.You can't go wrong I'm sure some of the more experienced folks will have lots more advice. They are a very helpful bunch indeed

[rmcpb]

Tracking with a dob is easy as Erik has already mentioned. An 8-10" is a great workhorse size and would leave you enough for a few considered purchases to go with the new toy.

Top of my list would be:

[li]Cheshire eyepiece to get it collimated correctly
[li]Telrad to allow easy pointing to objects
[li]Planisphere to learn the sky and to help locate objects
[li]Red torch to preserve night vision
[li]Copy of Sky and Telescope for ideas and tours


Notice I didn't say anything about better eyepieces. They can come later when you have more experience, until then the ones the scope came with will be more than adequate. These are expensive and you need to make good choices that are yours and related to your viewing habits, otherwise you end up with lots of expensive paperweights.

Welcome to the hobby/madness :)

[Crackers]

Thank you all for your thoughts, you've made up my mind (no small task) and I even have a nice shopping list thanks to you all. I guess the only other question is Bintel vs Andrews. I hear the GS scopes and the Bintel one are one and the same so I guess price is the key. Any clues on which is better service wise for an interstate buyer?

Again, many thanks.

[figgylion]

Craig
I got mine from York Optical
http://www.yorkoptical.com.au/ProductMenus/Telescopes/tabid/42/CategoryID/505/List/1/Level/a/ProductID/71/Default.aspx?SortField=UnitCost%2cP roductName
Very happy with their prompt service and with follow up purchases, have also bought accessories from Bintel and they were very quick too.
Good luck with your choice

[Crackers]

Thanks Steve, they are $100 cheaper than the other two - brilliant! I'll add up the accessories and see what's the best overall deal. Thanks for the lead.

[bmitchell82]

Im a firm beliver of the 10" dob, its brilliant, portable, and most of all versitile! Mount it on a eq6, or run it on the dob base, use it for astro photography, or just visual, a nice fast scope wide fields or barlow it up and go for narrow band. I think its the strongest of all beginner scopes at a reasonable price to boot.

Shopping list though i would do in a different way.

1st round
get your collminator a combination of both laser and cheshire (lash out in this dept its well worth it.)

2x barlow and maybe a 32mm ep this will give you a good range of magnifications and wide field views.

Astronomy 2009, and download one of the free atlas's from the beginners section in the sticky posts and print on A3.

so all up this should set you back 230- 250 (don't get high end barlows and eps just yet like rmcpb said, you need to learn what your neich is before you lash out.

If you want to see my journey so far just have a quick looksee though some recent posts in the beginners sections. youll see the photos there.

[Crackers]

Cheers mate, got everything on your list apart from the Barlow and am just getting twitchy waiting for it to arrive. Is the Barlow worth it?

Might wait a while before I graduate to an EQ mount and learn to walk before I run - sounds like setting them up is something close to witchcraft.

Cheers, Craig

[bmitchell82]

No problems mate :)

Yes the barlow is worth it because remember that the theoretical limit of the 10" is up over the x500 mark, though do remember that for that you need lovely black skies and nearly perfect seeing!

Though just use what you have for a start and you will see what i mean. Though most of the time i spend with a 20mm ep. just a nice magnification range i belive.:thumbsup:

[Crackers]

Cool, that's just the sort of basic advice I need. I really have no idea what to expect given that the biggest scope I've ever really looked through is a department store 5" reflector. IF only it would hurry and get here. Can't wait!

[bmitchell82]

:thumbsup:Just to give you a idea, Im in perth in the "orange/red" border of light pollution, during the moon in full on saturday, my limiting magnitude was about 8.

Taranchula neb was pretty washed out, though i could make out the filiments.

Eta carena, i couldn't get enough mag's to see the 2 plumes (thats my indicator of seeing/transparency).

Orion was alright, though in the 10 its normally quite good, but the difference between dark skies and urban skies is a tramendous difference!
the 6 stars to the trapizium can be seen easly with the 10" though you need good seeing and high mags. I could i pick 5 of the 6 out on sat.

Though the best thing is to get in contact with your local group, you will learn so much more that way!

[Crackers]

Where do you find the light pollution maps??

To the naked eye, I have very clear skys on a good night. The Milky Way is really pronounced when there is no moon, although I'm sure that there are more subtle ways of judging the darkness of the sky.

Getting in with a local group won't be easy for a range of reasons that I won't bore you with, but I'm getting the idea that it would be very worthwhile to make the effort. It's pretty cheap and sounds like it might pay for itself in reducing headaches.

As for the objects you mention, I'll write them down and try to find them - bit like a treasure hunt really. I'll let you know how I go. Cheers.

[bmitchell82]

. if you are at clear skys, use stellarium (free download free program), you should be able to see two dark spots around where you would expect to find the south celestial pole one large one small. thats the Large and small magellenic cloud, paruse that and you will find heaps and some nice things like the tranchula. in there you will also see 47 tucane (looks like a round fuzzy dot to the eye, but beautiful though your scope. :) theres a few to hunt down

[erick]

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/63-404-0-0-1-0.html

[Crackers]

Thanks Eric, found your link after posting the question and forgot to edit the post - sorry! Turns out I'm in a green/blue zone which I guess is pretty good. I managed to find what Brendan was suggesting by eye with a very bright moon last night (47tuc - not tarantula) and now just need my scope to arrive. To change the subject a little, I assume that very hot, windy days like we're having in Adelaide today don't make for good viewing at night - turbulent atmosphere and all that. Is there such a beast as perfect weather conditions?

[NeilW]

Hi Craig, and welcome. I live in Adelaide suburbs, and have just purchased an 8" Skywatcher dob, but it's either been cloudy or I've been busy almost every night since I got it. I had a look at the Orion Nebula the other night, but it was quite close to an almost full moon. Still, didn't look bad though. The next few nights look like viewing conditions are going to be pretty poor what with high temperatures, dust etc.

Hope you enjoy your new scope! :)

Neil.

[bmitchell82]

Tuc and omega centuri are easy to see by eye, though in perth metro i can see omega, but not tuc. only the darkest of nights in perth can i vaguely see the lmc, though in dark skys you can see the taranchula using averted vision. another one is the Eta Carine area, theres some spectacular open clusters and nebulae in there, and i can see them in perth metro with the naked eye (where they are not the neb) ahhh the next few weekends of darkness again! HAZZAR. looking to go out to some deep sky nights should be good.

[Crackers]

I'm really looking forward to getting into it but, of course, nothings that easy. I have just taken delivery of a brand new base for my Dob, but sadly the OTA is lost somewhere in "transport world" - damn you TNT!!. My EP's arrived yesterday along with planisphere, Telrad, collimator. It's almost like all of those years in high school when I walked around with a condom in my wallet and never got to use it!:mad2:
Hopefully, it'll turn up for the weekend when I have some time to play.

[DENMONKEY]

Crikey Crackers, did you ask them how the hell do they miss locate something of this size?

I'd be into them like a rat up a drain pipe until the located and delivered it.
I've also had some issues with TNT claiming they attempted delivery when I and a friend were standing out the front of my house waiting for it.
They also claimed to have left the usual notice on my door.
Don't know how the guy got past me to stick something on my door.
Must have been bloody quick.
Anyway after 2 days and a lot of calls it was found at their depot but 10kms away from me :mad2:

Good luck with finding it mate. Must be killing you to wait.

Phone + angry voice ..get into em :D

[Crackers]

Hooray! TNT have found my OTA, left it sitting on the dock for reasons known only to themselves. They knew a package was missing, but rather than find it, they decided to just part ship. In a former life, I had to deal with TNT on a dialy basis and for the most part, they're hopeless. Still, apart from the very real chance of another stuff-up, I'll be looking at the skies tomorrow night - yippee!!

[bmitchell82]

hazzarrrr, now change your windscreen wipers..... do it or you will have one week of bad weather!!!!!

[Crackers]

Good call Brendan, I'll do it on the way to work in the morning. Pity it wasn't here today - magnificent night outside before the moon came up - crystal clear. Fingers crossed for tomorrow. Cheers.