Sky & Space magazine

[matt]

I see the December issue of Bintel's 'Night Sky' newsletter is reporting the demise of S&S magazine.

Anyone have more concrete news?

[iceman]

Interesting - that's the first I've read/heard from a major advertiser saying it in those sort of words.

A few months ago I saw one of the contributing editors on another forum saying that it would still be coming back. So I guess we'll see.

[Omaroo]

I really hope that this magazine resurfaces. I enjoyed its slightly different presentation enormously. Being home grown it should be applauded and supported - especially given the Aussie bent.

Advertisers are scrambling for relevant space in titles that target their specific market and are more than willing to wait for it to come back. I'm in the magazine advertising game and see this repeatedly when titles disappear for a while. Good luck S&S - I, for one, miss you!

[matt]

A while?:whistle:

I'd say in magazine terms it's been absent for an eternity, having also worked in magazines.

[Omaroo]

My company is one of three (Digital Ads, Adstream and Websend) that sends nearly all electronic advertising to over 7,000 titles world wide from Australia on behalf of advertisers. We have stats to show that this is common practice, and not just a seasonal phenomenon. We re-introduce titles to our networks when a publisher asks us to, and then monitor their take-up from advertisers. Some titles have gone for a couple of years at a time to reappear and create heavy advertising traffic.

[matt]

Companies that I formally worked for were among the largest publishers of independent special interest magazines in the Southern Hemisphere...so nerrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:P:lol: And as a member of the senior editorial team I became fully aware of the perils of missing a single issue...let alone going AWOL for many months and being inconsistent during the periods they were 'around'.

Anyway...I'm just wondering where the mag is at.....

[Omaroo]

Yep - all of them are our customers. Worked with them for decades to develop these systems. ACP, Pac Pubs, Fairfax Mags, you name them - we do them! :thumbsup:

Anyways - I hope that S&S does come back. S&T needs competition to stay lively itself. No competition is no good! :)

Advertisers who rely on and pay for repeat bookings don't like to see their chosen medium go south, but at the end of the day it's the readership base that determines where advertisers will place a booking. If it exists - it'll be advertised in.

[matt]

Not necessarily. Speaking from the editorial standpoint, which is my area, I know we never spent a great amount of time worrying about the competition's content, or keeping an eye on what they were doing. We believed in ourselves and charted our own course, confident that what we were doing was good enough. We effectively set the pace.

Competition in this instance might only work to keep the price of the mag at a lower level....but that's set by numerous market factors, nonetheleast being a healthy understanding of what the 'market' will tolerate, even in the absence of a 'competitior'.:)

[Omaroo]

I'm not offering that point of view on behalf of a publisher... but from an advertiser. If I can access similar demographics via two competing publications, I'll place my advertising where it's most efficient and cost effective.

We both have our own experience in the industry - but from opposite ends. We could debate forever Matt....

[matt]

I'm not sure you can entirely separate publisher/advertiser perspectives in the context of this 'discussion' about mag survival.

Anyway....I agree with you, Chris. Whatever our various standpoints...it'd still be nice to have this magazine back on the news stands:thumbsup:

[Omaroo]

Yep - you can't separate the publisher/advertiser perspectives, as they are inextricably linked. They depend on each other entirely for their existence. I don't think that it's a black and white situation though. Titles do go "poof" for long periods - and this also includes those being swapped between publishers which then take time to re-build their presence. It's not necessarily an automatic death sentence - but it can't be easy to recover - that's for sure.

I sure hope they come back too.

[matt]

They never are, mate;)

However, I do think some magazines operate better than others when it comes to lengthy periods of absence like this - in terms of communicating with their readership the current state of play.

A timely release here and there can do an awful lot in mitigating the death sentence.

[astroron]

I may be corrected in the future,but in my opinion it is dead.

[Miaplacidus]

Er, thirteen posts so far, and, forgive me if I'm wrong, but no one seems to have spared a thought for the poor bloody subscribers. Surely they must (or should) have heard something definitive before now.

(Now that the Norwegian Blue seems to be well and truly dead, finally, one might come out and say that this cavalier attitude seems typical, despite countless past protestations to the contrary, and was really what doomed it in the eyes of so many erstwhile readers, myself included. So many unreturned phone calls, so many unreplied emails, so many excuses, so many threats of libel. Are the few remaining eternal optimists who are still on the subscription list going to be reimbursed?)

Anyone?

[leon]

Your probably right Matt, I actually canceled both subscriptions to S&S and S&T,

Leon

[Virgs]

They have a poor business model simple. Not withstanding the bad luck health wise they encountered there should have been procedures in place to ensure a steady flow to the customer. The fact that they have not refunded the subscriptions or given a definate answer to them about when they will appear on the shelves is further evidence of a poor business model. Any good they have done in the past has been tarnished by the continual disruption to what was an excellent read with good local content showing that they have the editorial aspect covered. It is a shame to see them go as I really enjoyed reading the magazine.

[Jen]

LOL Matt :lol::lol: that sounded funny reading that, so nerrrrr!!!!!!!!
:rofl:

[matt]

Onya Jen. It was written tongue-in-cheek.

Glad it made you laff...

[GrahamL]

Well done chris and matt :thumbsup:.. none of my hard earned is ever going the way of any subsription to ANY mag ever again .

[matt]

Wow...not sure I want to take any responsibility for that decision:lol:

I don't subscribe, anyway....

I prefer to get my local newsagent to put one aside and pop in each month or so and pick it up, whatever the publication.

At least that way I'm sure it won't get 'lost' in the mail:mad2:

[JethroB76]

Why has Sky & Spaces' unreliability resulted in people not wanting to subscribe to AS&T? :shrug:

[Greg Bryant]

Hi all,

Just to confirm, in response to the above, Australian Sky & Telescope magazine continues on. AS&T is just one of several magazine titles that are published by our company - we also publish Australian Woodsmith, Australian Men's Fitness, and Casino (for Star City here in Sydney).

Advance copies of the February/March issue have just arrived back from the printer, and I'm certainly happy with it. It will be mailed out to subscribers later this month, before it goes on sale on January 28. Meanwhile, our April issue is nearing completion.

Regards,
Greg

[Omaroo]

There is (what I'd call reliable) word from sources on other local forums that Lyle and crew are setting up their new offices over this NY break, and intend to resurrect this publication. This is fabulous news.... I hope it's factual and that these blokes can get moving again!

[matt]

We'll see.:thumbsup:

[mill]

Matt i suggest that you read that newsletter again and now properly.

For everyone here to read, "the statement" , by Bintel,

"It really does look as if Sky & Space magazine has finally sunk beneath the waves. No issue has been seen since last year and the website has remained unchanged for a long time. A real pity, as it was a lively and colourful magazine when it did come out."

This is written as gossip magazine style (see the word "as if" ).
This means that the good folks from Bintel dont know what is going on ?
PS: I dont think that Bintel should have done this without calling Lyle,Dave or anyone who works for S&S and get some info.

I am not affiliated with either Bintel or S&S, but some people should read articles properly and in context.

Matt dont take this the wrong way, but this is the wrong way to start a thread.

See the post above by Greg Bryant who had to respond to another post, just to make sure everyone would know that they would get the AS&T magazine.

Martin.

[matt]

Mill.

First of all, I'm not taking you the wrong way. I will, however, respond to your post.

I was simply reporting on what another 'source' had reported. In effect, I'm just relaying what I've seen/heard for the benefit of others.

My initial post never stated the aforementioned article was fact or fiction. Have a closer look at the second sentence in what was only a 2-sentence post!!! It was clearly a thread started in the interests of seeking a more definitive statement....in the absence of anything more concrete.

S&S could have done itself a big favour and communciated more effectively its state of play... It has a website, after all, and other means available to 'get the word out'....and many readers and subscribers who, for want of a better word, 'deserve' some type of updated explanation.

I was putting the question out there on behalf of many people, I am sure, who've been asking the same question.

If it appears as peddling gossip, that was not my intention. However, people have a right to ask questions and unfortunately it is in their nature to begin to make assumptions in the absence of any answers. And when one reads an article of that type by a source such as Bintel, one would assume they're founding their 'gossip' on something.

I'm not sure what you would define the right way to start a thread when it simply comes to asking what's going on? I thought that was all I did?

The first respondent to this thread was Mike...who is the chief mod of this site....who didn't have a problem with it....

Greg Bryant's (justified) response was to someone else's response to someone lumping AS&T in with S&S in terms of publication reliability and subscription, and to give folks a heads-up on AS&T's upcoming (on time) publication schedule.

I'm not sure why someone would respond that they wouldn't be subscribing to either mag based on S&S's track record....I can't take responsibility for the way people respond.

cheers....and no offence taken....and nothing taken the wrong way:):thumbsup:

[JethroB76]

Agree with this, instead we've had twelve months or so of people asking whats happening; generally ending with closed threads, sometimes even threats of legal action..why not just put a "we're on a hiatus" message on your website?




Still got me puzzled this one.:shrug:

[Hagar]

The end result of all the threads associated with S&S is that the company has maintained a silent approach to it's subscribers. Had the subs been of a sizable amount a legal class action would have been already mounted against this company.
The lack of feedback and information has everyone making uneducated guesses as to what is happening to their subs.
I believe from reading another forum that the company is putting itself back together, but again this is just hearsay from other than the company principle.
These sort of comments, which don't come to be, only stand to hurt the company and it's reserection.

I wish Lyle and the company well into the future and hope they can get the Mag back off the ground and into readers hands and again earn the respect any company need to move into the future.

[Enchilada]

I read this post and have resisted to reply, but one main point came to mind in all of this; "Once ones trust is broken, it's very hard to regain it." C’est la ve.

[mill]

Sorry Matt, To get back to the starting of a thread like this, quoting the article as written by Bintel would have been a lot better.
The way you have worded it, makes it appear as if Bintel has inside information and S&S is gone under already.

I myself once asked on a forum what was going on with S&S and got jumped on just for asking :P
This was about half a year ago.

Asking about what is happening with a company is very hard to do on any forum because people alway's think that you or someone else are attacking that particular company.

To sum things up,

A: S&S should have left a message on their website.
B: People not taking out a subscription on another magazine because of this, are hurting those magazines.
C: S&S will have a hard time to get the trust back from a lot of people, and this will only be because of the silence, and no updates on the website.
D: I for one will get a new subscription once my subscription ends (got only 1 magazine of the subscription) providing the mag will come out and is regular enough.
E: Support Aussie mags :P

My 2 Cents :)

[erick]

I too look forward to seeing Sky & Space back on the shelves. I'll buy it immediately. :thumbsup:

[koputai]

The content of S&S was very good right up until they disappeared, and I was looking forward to the next issue.
Yes, I'll buy it too, but there's no way I'd take out a subscription!

Cheers,
Jason.

[h0ughy]

I have quite some time left for my subscription to be filled, so if all the talk is correct then we will wait and see, if not then I have lost my money. Whether or not S&S has gone who knows? It has been a very long time and without knowing one could assume that what was reported could well be true? It is a bit hard to deny or affirm anything when you don’t communicate, so in the absence of a bona fide word from the business owner I think it is just that – rumour. I believe that to speculate without having any evidence would be wrong but by being dead quiet without any murmur or hint of life, one could simply assume it is dead! There is nothing like reading from a magazine – it has texture, soul and visual stimulation to crank the mind into yearning for more. I am probably a magazine junkie – I love my fixes and can get them anyway I can, even OS mags like astronomy now, sky at night and astronomy and S&T US edition, I subscribe to Aust S&T and like those that have a subscription with S&S, waiting for the next edition to pop up. But after 14 months one does have to wonder if S&S will ever surface. The irony is they are still registered as a business entity so from the taxman’s point of view they are a live trading business. So it’s a weird world we live in – get your Astro fixes when you can!

[matt]

I'm sorry, mate...but I just can't agree with you.

Nowhere in that very simple two sentences in the original post could anyone get that inference.

1st sentence - a simple observation or pointing out of what Bintel is reporting. Nothing more, nothing less.

2nd sentence - offering up their 'comment' for comment or feedback of a more concrete nature.

If anything, it is a call to repudiate their report. I am just the messenger.

I fail to see how you can eschew such a standpoint from the two very short sentences posted. There is just simply not enough content there for it to be any more than what it is: a call for verification or denial of the content posted by Bintel.

I'm not sure how you've managed to find a negative in the purpose of my original post...but congrats...you done a fine job!:lol:

And for the record...again...as I've stated in prior posts in this thread...I too would like to see this magazine make a comeback. Just in case we weren't clear enough of where I stand on this, or lest I be accused of having a hidden agenda.:)

[GrahamL]

My comment had nothing to do with astronomy mags as such but rather the insight you both gave in how the biz can run, in that from a subscibers point of view the expectation that you will recieve what you were billed for when you are supposed to isn't exactly a given at times .

I hope it shows up again on the newstands to .. all those astrology mags are taking over the A slot :P

[wavelandscott]

Yawn...why do we keep stirring this pot...how about we let it all just bubble along and take its course...

[Virgs]

Well if the editorial team communicated to the subscribers what was going on then questions would not have to be asked. Just because they are good people and friends etc does not condone their actions or their business model. How hard it is for them to actually make a comment and remove all speculation? It is a long bow they draw expecting the astronomical community to have faith in them and sit patiently whilst no information is presented or a time frame given - seriuosly, how hard would it be to release a statement on their website or in one of the forums? Some communication is better than no communication and they owe that to the sebscribers/readers...

[iceman]

Lyle is a member here and on many other forums.. communication would be the best and only answer to remove any speculation or gossip.

[astrojase]

sounds like spruiking greg...*wink*

i'd love to see SKY & SPACE back on the shelves - pheonix is rising...fingers crossed...

[Miaplacidus]

Many people here are remarkably more tolerant than myself. I can only admire such a charitable attitude being extended to an organization that is, at base, not a charity. If my morning newspaper didn't turn up, I'd be expecting answers that day. I could be pretty sure of receiving a genuinely contrite response straight away, and offers of reparations immediately. Especially once I pointed out the bleeding obvious: "You took my money!"

You put me in the shade with your generosity. I hope you guys are as kind to me if ever I need it.

Actually...

[matt]

Indeed....

And it's equally perplexing how indignant some people get when readers/subscribers dare to ask questions about what's going on:shrug:

I think it's a fairly contemptuous standpoint to assume...

That's just a general observation, and not directed at anyone individually.

[Dennis]

I first came across Sky & Space in the UK and when we migrated to Australia, it was the only local magazine and I began to buy it regularly; it was (and has been) an excellent read.

However, it soon became apparent that its existence appeared more a labour of love, seemingly produced by a mixed crew of full time, part time and at times, casual contributors. So whenever it was late, I judged it against my “assumed” operating model rather than a more rigorous, professional business model.

This is how I reconciled its occasional lateness and non-appearance, as well as the general lack of communication. However, in doing so, I probably contributed to “encouraging” the ongoing behaviour as it appears to “work” for the magazine; that is, I keep returning to buy it, so why change, if change is indeed feasible?

If it continues to be published and remains readable and useful, I will no doubt continue to buy it, despite its short comings. Thus I am guilty; guilty of accepting the missing of deadlines; guilty of accepting poor communication; guilty of perpetuating the magazine via on going purchases; guilty of feeling some sympathy to the people who contribute to the magazine; guilty of not holding the folks to their broken promises, etc.

But, I can live with that guilt and tolerate the behaviour as my health, welfare and general sense of well being do not depend on the magazine. In my case, it is only a hobby.

Cheers

Dennis

[turbo_pascale]

I think in general we're a pretty supportive lot, but I think the only thing anyone really cares about (other than the general hope they would come back), is that there are what appears to be a significant number of people (myself included) that are subscribers that have no indication whatsoever if our money is blown or not. Do I REALLY care about my $120 (or whatever it was), well - given how expensive anything in this hobby is, it's not a massive outlay for most. But on principle, you would think subscribers would have at least the right to know what's going on, from the horse's mouth, in an open forum or on their website, if not at least a letter sent to all subscribers explaining things (after all, they have my address!)

I am tempted to start a poll on who has a current subscription to Sky & Space, but I fear that thread would be quickly killed off amid the inevitable noise that these threads generate, and in the end, what will it generate other than more disgruntled people?

Turbo

[Miaplacidus]

Ah, yes, Dennis. But would you subscribe?

And if you did, and if you found out only later that it was common knowledge that the magazine had missed many months worth of issues, chronically, for maybe a decade, wouldn't you be miffed?

[Coen]

Might I suggest this thread has exhausted its intent? Perhaps time to let it rest?

[matt]

You can suggest whatever you like, Coen:)

I'm happy, as the starter of this thread, to leave that decision in the hands of the very capable moderators of this site.

However, it's my belief the thread will evenutally 'die' a natural death, regardless.

But given the number of people who've viewed it in such a brief amount of time...the interest is still there to justify keeping it open.

[Dennis]

I prefer not to subscribe to magazines where possible, mainly due to the risk of receiving them bent double, despite our generous sized mail box.:)

You are correct - if I were an innocent or brand new subscriber, with a standard set of customer/supplier expectations, it is likely that I would feel quite differently.

However, miffed – no; disappointed – yes. Would this be a serious issue in my life – no.

But, that is just my approach based on where I am; it is certainly not a universal truth nor does in seek to deny others their experiences, approaches or views, as all I really know is what it is like to stand in my shoes to walk the proverbial mile.:)

Cheers

Dennis

[Miaplacidus]

You're a true gent, Dennis. (One of the pleasures of IIS.)

Regards,

Brian.

[Dennis]

Hi Brian

Thank you for such a nice complement; I do try hard to write carefully and it is especially nice to hear that it sometimes does work!:)

I have made my fair share of mistakes in posting replies; mistakes arising from at times having a frail, insecure ego (when I should really have known better) as well as those made unwittingly, unconsciously or carelessly.:(

No doubt I’ll continue to drop the odd clanger or two but in the company of such good friends on Ice In Space, I feel confident that someone will nudge me via a nice mid-course correction, helping me learn and become wiser.:thumbsup:

I promise to reciprocate those acts of support and good will whenever I am able to do so.

Cheers

Dennis

[danielsun]

I have an outstanding 3 year subscription which I have only seen 2 or 3 editions.
It would have been nice to maybe have received an explanation or even a "Dear member unfortunately there is a delay due to........ and that would be o.k. with me. I do hope they get back on track because when it has been running it is a great mag.

[Dennis]

Can’t argue with that – a simple courtesy one would think.

Cheers

Dennis

[CALISTO7]

It's hard to beat Australian Sky and Telescope, for the variety and depth of articles!
Sky and Space was alright, but it never really satisfied my search for a good all-round magazine on the many facets of Astronomy.
I so look forward to going into the local Newsagency and perusing all the mags on my favourite subject!
There are now such a bevy of them!!

[Geoff45]

I totally agree. The other problem with S and S was that even when it was appearing, it almost always came out late, usually after the reprted "forthcoming events" had well and truly forthcomed.
Geoff

[joeallen]

I have tried to call their office several time over last month, and get a disconnected phone answer. Their website is still active, so the server it is on must not be theirs. It's been 21 months since I've seen an issue. I'm going to presume it is dead and I have lost my money. An email from the managers of the mag, explaining their demise, would have been appreciated. The mag underwent too many changes after J. Nally left.

It's kind of sad because I really liked this mag, and I subscribed from the very start, which was just after I arrived in Oz.

I was wondering if anyone here has heard anything concrete about S&S.

[dpastern]

All I'll say is that for the past several years, I didn't like the content of S&S. I stopped buying it. And yes, I had a subscription for several years, and have all of the original editions as well (can't remember what # up to, but was the first 4 or 5 years or so from memory).

I actually prefer the American S&T, but you just can't seem to get it here...

Dave

[MrB]

Was never a fan of S&S, it was better when it was Southern Sky.
Southern Astronomy though was an awesome magazine, may it rest in peace.
Not a huge fan of AS&T either, much prefer US version, wish I could get it at the newsagents.
But thats 'progress' eh?

[dpastern]

Exactly. I was trying to remember it's original name, thanks. When they changed the name, the quality of the content went downhill fast. Sure, it was a nice glossy feel, but I'd rather content over quantity.

Dave

[OneOfOne]

I get both S&T magazines and there is quite a bit of overlap in content, so when my US subscription runs out (next year?) I will just have the Aussie one.

[firstlight]

I feel that we should always support local as I get very tired of the northern bias. Having said that if the magazine treats the punters with contempt they can expect the same in return. I don't want to get into a debate on negativity and not supporting the local product, but their problems result from their digging their own grave.

It has always been a running joke that a 1 year sub to S&S is a 2 year sub, and when enquries were met with outright lies, I let my sub lapse and did not buy many mag from the shops either.

Just my perspective.

[Enchilada]

Yeah agree 110%. Probably the best of its type so far produced. Still often read the copies and refer to them on occasion - with some absolutely fantastic Australian orientated news and views.
More the pity is that many here probably didn't or have never seen one of them to compare them to current popular magazines on amateur astronomy.
It would be real great if those old articles were made available on-line - might also lift the game of the current crop, which IMO, is missing a crucial edge of significance to readers.

[seeker372011]

I won a 6 month subscription to S &S at a star party and received two or three issues so I reckon I have done well and am grateful for the freebee ..anyway I never subscribed but always bought newsstand

well I guess its now gone for ever..but now I buy the "sky at night" at my newsagent and is that a fine replacement or what

[stephenb]

am not overly familiar with this magazine as it did not interest me a great deal, but I notice that they have shopfront of sorts listed on their website. Any Sydneysiders know if this still exists?

Also, from memory, the editor, Dave Reneke runs the Astro Space News? I used to get the news emails from him. I think I used to hear him on ABC radio from time to time, Am I thinking about the same bloke?

[dpastern]

Agreed. As to the 2nd part of your paragraph, the sad thing is it'd be a breach of copyright. This is how silly copyright is - something like this won't get digitised and anyone who does it privately is breaking the law. Some magazines understand it - atomic mpc has previously released CDs of entire previous issues (and for free). That's *really* appreciating your readers and not milking them like so many magazines do. My Southern sky magazines are all in storage, I'm trying to find the suckers, but it isn't easy amongst so many boxes that haven't been labelled as to what they contain.

Oh, another great book, Burnham's Celestial guides - discontinued I believe, no digital version, likely never to be. How silly is it to let information like this rot due to stupid copyright laws? The whole idea of copyrights initially was for the owner to make money for a period of time, I think that it was initially set to a very reasonable 25 years. After that it'd be released into the public domain, for the cultural benefit of society. These days, with copyrights now commonly extended to lifespan of owner + 75 years and increasingly having this time frame expended more and more, the original intent and design of copyright is meaningless.

Dave

[Enchilada]

Dave,
This, of course, also assumes that the publishers would be against digitising their material's copyright. Of course, the might say yes if they were approached in a formal and nice way.
Might be worthwhile forwarding a nice letter or two to them - say making the point on distribution "educational" or "useful knowledge" grounds. It would also make a nice basis for a good Australian Astronomy Reader. (Another would be to "buy the rights.") :thumbsup:

Note: Of course, I am not here encouraging anyone to copy these - just commenting on its comparative value as a quality magazine against the current crop we can buy today.

[Enchilada]

True. It is. However, "Sky at Night" is not overtly southern hemisphere oriented, even though it contains mostly relevant stuff. Positively, the price at the newsagent is quite competitive.
Note: All I've only really assumed here is debates on Australian-based publications.

[Geoff45]

Totally agree.
Geoff

[Geoff45]

Well I find that just about everything in Australian S&T is taken from the US version, and there's lots in the US version that doesn't appear in Aust S & T, so unfortunately I have to get the US version for more coverage.

[Greg Bryant]

That's not quite right Geoff. Since I became Editor in 2006, it's been roughly a 50:50 split (+/- 15) between content from the US edition and locally-written material.

I invite you to look at the current July issue.

Greg

[astroron]

Many of us gave up on S&S years ago.

[iceman]

I don't think I've seen the issue so eloquently explained before. Thanks Brian.

In fact this exact analogy happened to me 2 weeks ago - our Sunday paper didn't get delivered. That day we were down at the newsagent complaining, and we received a credit on our account, and apologies from the newsagent.

I'm sure there are many other similar analogies one could use from real life. eg: buying a foxtel subscription, paying your money and not receiving the set top box for 6 months.

In my opinion, it's extremely unlikely that S&S will return. Lyle seems to be too busy with other business interests right now. Which is a shame for some of the editors who have produced great work. (You can see Ian Musgrave's work at his AstroBlog (http://astroblogger.blogspot.com/)).

[dpastern]

It'd be really cool to have those earlier magazines digitised and a lots of other stuff. I can see why so few do it - it's easier for people to pirate digital items than paper based items. Imagine Burnham's celestial guide in a large format 1 volume - wouldn't that be awesome? Imagine a digital version of it, again, you could have it on your laptop when you're observing. All of this limited by close minded and lazy publishers.

As to S&S's demise, who knows. It is disappointing (and technically illegal under the trade practices act) for them to not honour subscriptions. I'm not suggesting anyone formally complain btw, but in the end, they are a business, they have paying customers who have paid for a product that they are not receiving. Worse, the communication between the business and the paying public is non existant. This is unforgiveable. As someone else said earlier on in the thread, the trust is now broken, and even if they came back, they wouldn't buy the magazine.

Dave

[Virgs]

My simple wish is that the editor of sky and space would make a public statement informing everyone of what is going on. The subscribers deserve that as a minimum - I find it frustrating that they will not acknowledge their subscribers nor do they show any intestinal fortitude and simply state what is their intention. If they have gone under at least admit it, if they have not at least tell us when the next issue is due and if they dont know, then it is time to admit defeat and give up on this whole sorry mess... surely the next step from the subscribers can only be a legal one...

[iceman]

Someone told me that they tested it, and it did not accept the subscription. So it's just misleading, but it won't take anyone's money.

(I haven't tried it myself).

[Enchilada]

More worrying is the subscription seems to be still open.
http://www.skyandspace.com.au/cache/header-40public__0-0.html?cache=no

Pity for anyone unknowing of the history of the magazine in question here!

Also the "Australian Made" symbol is still on the main page, and it still says; "NEW issue now released! The NEW issue has been sent to all subscribers and the NEW magazine is available in all major newsagencies." It refers to the September/October 2007 Issue.
I.e. http://www.skyandspace.com.au/public/home.ehtml

[Paul Haese]

I was not going to get involved in all this as I am friends with Lyle and many of the chaps who edit or contribute to Sky and Space. However, I am disheartened by the time that is involved regarding the last publication. For nearly two years I paid for subscription to members who won our rant of the month competition on SCP (this is not an add for the site). It totals something like $500-$600 and to the best of my knowledge no one has received a full subscription yet. I was prepared to accept that Lyle was ill and due to the structure of the magazine it was impossible to release a new edition whilst this was happening. Other unfortunate circumstances also transpired which affected Lyle too. That was over a year ago since I heard that things were now back on track and now I think it is time for some results. I have all but written off the subscriptions, but hope that everything is sorted out one day. I don't know when that will be, but I hope it is soon.

I tried to contact the mag last night and found that the contact link did not work. Perhaps this is something to do with my IE version (most likely given Microsofts impeccible performance in the past).

Lyle if you are reading this please do something about this whole issue, tell us what is going on and if you cannot get S&S out to us at least give a refund to as many of the subscribers as possible.

Having one magazine of Australian origin is not good for the hobby, competition is always good.

That is all I have to say on this matter.

[erick]

Dave Reneke's latest Astro Space News contains:-

"Effective from this week I am no longer involved with Sky and Space magazine.... Sky and Space is currently in a hiatus situation at the moment with plans by the owner to re-publish again sometime in 2010."

[iceman]

Interesting, thanks for the update Eric.

[AstroJunk]

'Bout time you started up Ice-In-Space Magazine Mike!

I'll buy it :thumbsup:

[Omaroo]

LOL! Coming from publishing circles, it's somewhat of a quantum leap form running a web forum to publishing a fully-fledged magazine title. I helped with the technical side of a start-up magazine years ago, and it went for one issue before the pin was pulled. The publisher lost their house, life savings and was left with a rather huge debt he couldn't pay.

Still... Mike? :whistle:

[jjjnettie]

I can just see Mike's eyes rolling at that Jonathan.:rolleyes::lol:
But a year book..... there's an idea.....with contributions from members.

[Omaroo]

Glad someone's thinking. What a stupendous idea - a short-run coffee table book with a page for each member who contributes. Get some decent design work happening (maybe a comp?) and it'd be a yearly hit I reckon.

[iceman]

A topic for another thread, perhaps? :) A little off-topic in here.

[h0ughy]

where is that link from Erick

[erick]

Here it is:-

http://www.davidreneke.com/astro-space-news

[stephenb]

Okay, so let me understand this...At least two individuals had an involvement in a registered publication in this country, and have received monies for subscriptions, to which the payees have not received the goods for. Did the publication or company publishing the magazine go into some form or bankruptcy/receivership? Have the persons concerned now wiped their hands of the previous financial management of the monies owed, and simply moved into new jobs? Forgive me for being cynical here....

Above all, one word comes to mind to describe the overall issue "communication" - or lack of.

[Marclau]

This is yet another sign of the struggling newpaper/magazine market.
McGills in Elizabeth St Melbourne just closed down and I was shocked as only a few days earlier was told my overseas magazine had arrived.
When I arrived, the doors were closed.........might have to go across the road to Mag Nation.

In fact I saw many astronomy mags there too!!

[spacezebra]

That is sad news! I used to work in Collins Street and McGills was my favourite newsagency.

Cheers Petra d.

[erick]

Now that is a shock and doesn't make sense - they were always full of customers. Wait a minute, they were full of people standing and reading all the magazines, like I did with the overseas astronomy magazines that I don't buy - woops!

[stephenb]

That's sad about McGills as I always went there for my tech and reference books.

I think David Reneke better tell the Melbourne Herald Sun of his job change. He is billed on page 41 today as "news editor of Sky & Space Magazine". But given his track record of keeping people informed and updated, I doubt it will change for a while.:lol:

[Alchemy]

to me that reads he was only an employee of a company run by someone else.

i personally think you are going to have to accept your subscription is unlikely to be completed.

Not only that but there is the competition AST which now has a solid market base.

having been through a number of closures as a creditor, the liquidators just wind it up, pay the secured creditors (banks) and you get nothing, and even if it looks dodgy ASIC wont intervene they dont have the time or the assets (ive done some work for one of their senior lawyers and i discussed this with him) you could if you were so aggrieved persue it but it would cost you more than its worth.

In the building industry this happens week in week out and not for just a couple hundred dollars. You learn to move on after you have been burned a few times.

[Enchilada]

What about a class action??? :shrug:

[Hagar]

On track record it is going to be hard to get money out of a stone. Even with a class action the costs would probably out way the returns to subscribers. The legals will always get paid first.

Better to forget about it and move on. We are not talking about life savings here.
If by some chance a new Mag appears the descision to buy would need to be made then. At the moment it is all supposition.

[stephenb]

I had a friend say to me that they were going to subscribe to Sky and Space via their website. I immediately jumped on them and advised them not to take up a subscription to this obsolete magazine.

What is down right wrong is that this poor excuse of an Australian magazine is still masquerading as a current publication. How lazy are these people? Can't they just take down the website? Just have a look at the website. It has not changed for months or even years. Oh look, the latest issue is out!!! Sept/Oct 2007!! I hope no poor unsuspecting beginner doesn't get sucked into trying to take out a subscription.

It is clearly obvious that they are no longer in publication, I wish they would admit it to themselves.

I don't care if they are/were operating using volunteers, as is suggested. If you are not publishing a magazine, take down you useless website and move on to something more productive in the world.

[Ian Robinson]

The subscribers have blown their money .... despite paying their upfront subscriptions in good faith to get a magazine that at best had a very poor record wrt publishing on time over the years .... a reason why I ditched Sky & Space years ago as well not being impressed with the content.

The ones I feel sorry for are the local very small astrogear vendors, whom will have signed up to buy advertising in Sky & Space , several issues in advance and will have paid for some or all of that advertising which will not have been cheap which they will never benefit from now (but at least they can write the cost of that off against their tax as a loss).

If I were in the trade and Sky & Space returned sometime in the future I'd be very reluctant to throw more money at them to buy advertising spreads in the reborn magazine. Once burnt twice shy.

Companies who take people's subscriptions and do not deliver the goods , just shut down and keep the subscriptions are crooks.

[Ian Robinson]

This should be a police matter .... keeping the subscription website up and open (to take money for a magazine that "might come back ... maybe") is not just lazyness and incompetence - IT IS FRAUD.

[yoot]

I took out a sub in March 2008. At the time the credit card processing facility was down and so I just left it there. However, next day or so someone there contacted me to say the system was "temporarily unavailable" and that I could pay by cheque, which I did. However, no issue received and sub is now of course expired.

I'm not exactly a beginner but I was unaware of the chequered history and assumed the next issue must be just about out.

Seems pretty bad that the website hasn't changed since then and I hope they are not still accepting payments, surely they aren't.

[matt]

:lol: Good luck with that