Purchasing Dob this week - need your advice!

[darkskybondi]

Guys,

I need your help! :help:

I am getting either the 10" or 12" Skywatcher Dob tomorrow from York Optical here in Sydney (if I get the 10" I may even go for the truss). I'll be getting the IIS discount on whatever I purchase. Anything else I should know? Should I insist on an unopened box? Anything I should check for? Warranties, etc?

Also, I know I need a collimator - can you recommend one from their list? http://www.yorkoptical.com.au/ProductMenus/TeleAccessories/tabid/49/CategoryID/589/List/1/Level/a/catpagesize/0/Default.aspx?SortField=UnitCost%2cP roductName

I had my heart set on the GSO laser collimator (http://www.agenaastro.com/GSO-Newtonian-Deluxe-Laser-Collimator-p/palc-gs-nla.htm) which is being sold for $59 by Andrews - who only open back up on January 12! Should I wait, or should I go for the Saxon branded one that York is selling?

Also, Barlows: any recommendation? Anything I should get from York? I'd like to get only good quality pieces that'll last a while.

Cheers
- DSB :)

[darkskybondi]

Anyone?

[lesbehrens]

hi. i think the 10"will be good. i have one and love it. if u r going for a truss i reckon get a 12". i also think go for a 2"Barlow as u can use both for 2"and 1 1/4" eyepieces.
les

[rastis95]

Hi,
I use a 12' dob from bintel and extremely happy with it. Personally I would go for the biggest aperture you can afford keeping in mind weight and portability. Just the ota on mine weighs in at around 20kg, can be a little awkward especially packing up late at night when your tired. With the collimator I purchased a simple orion chershire one from bintel to get me going, there has been a fair bit of discussion about what is the best laser collimator on the equipment forums. If you purchase a cheap laser it seems that they aren't aligned real well and they don't project a dot rather a small line or a sausage, im still looking into this one myself. I don't own a Barlow yet so can't help you on that one but with the eyepieces Ive got the stock standard ones that came with the scope 32, 15, 9mm they provide a good selection but ive also bought a Meade wide angle 25mm slightly higher mag than the 32mm but a clearer image. Hope that is of some help
Cheers
Scott:D

[PCH]

Hi,

I have the Bintel Laser collimator which I find is reasonable quality, - it was about $69 from memory.

I bought the 2" Bintel 2x Barlow to go with the 2" 26mm Ep that came with my 12" lightbridge dob. I also have a 1.25" Televue 2x barlow for use with my 1.25" TV Eps, and I'd have to say I think the TV product is better. I don't have anything better than TV plossl Ep products yet, but these are priced a little away from the cheapie end of the Ep market, and with optics, as with anything, you definitely get what you pay for. So I'd recommend getting at least reasonable quality optic accessories wherever possible.

Finally, should you wait til Andrews gets back on the 12th Jan ?? I wouldn't be able to wait more than a day or two :P, but if you can then why not. Anyway, I'd suggest that all the similarly priced laser collimators would be of a comparable quality - maybe even coming out of the same factory.;)

Cheers, :thumbsup:

[tnott]

I don't know about the other budget truss dobs, but I think the 12" Lightbridge is only a little bit heavier than the 10". If you get a laser collimator make sure you check that itself is collimated when you get it(they can get knocked out in transit).

This can be done by putting it in some V-section and rotating it whilst watching the pattern it makes on the wall. When it doesn't scribe a circle but rotates on itself you're good.:thumbsup:

[Screwdriverone]

HI DSB,

Dont buy the cheshire at that price, Bintel or Andrews have the same for cheaper, I only have a Cheshire one and its fine, I then fine tune using a star outside in the dark. Wind out the focuser until you can see the secondary shadow in the middle of the star's blob and this will show you if the primary is spot on. Adjust MINUTELY mind you, the primary until the secondary shadow is in the middle of the star's circle. Once you adjust it, check at focus and see if everything is clear and repeat if necessary.

Therefore, my advice is, use a 35mm film canister (free) with a TINY hole in it for visual checking of the mirror alignments, fine tune with the star test, and WAIT until you can get a cheaper cheshire or laser from Andrews.

Chris

[darkskybondi]

Thanks for all your advice!

I bought the 10" collapsible Skywatcher today, along with York's Laser collimator. Here's hoping for some clear skies tonight! Can't wait to try it out.

I have a question about the laser collimator. I took one look at it when he was showing it to me and I asked him if it was safe to look at. He said, yes because you're not looking into the beam. I also looked to see the red dot in the centre of the primary mirror, which you're also supposed to do. My question is, how to stay safe with the laser collimator? I'm hoping I didn't do any damage already when looking at the beam in the store. But particularly because I'm doing it for the first time by myself tonight, I should really know how to operate the thing safely.

I was particularly concerned by wikipedia's page on laser safety (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_safety) - you can do damage in a fraction of a second. :eyepop:

Help!

Cheers
- DSB

[Screwdriverone]

Congratulations DSB, :thumbsup:

Just a question, re the discount for IIS members, can you walk into the store and claim that or do you have to order it online first?

Try this guide on the projects and articles section here on IIS
http://www.iceinspace.com.au/63-390-0-0-1-0.html
re the collimation.

I would be careful, but the return beam is designed to be looked at from the SIDE of the Laser collimator which is what its designed for, so I suggest this is safe to do so. However, be careful looking directly at it. (ie without it being inserted into the Telescope.

Grats again on the 10" collapsible, did it cost you $850 as described? ($999 -15% = $850?) Also, is it the black version or the white one?

Cheers

Chris

[darkskybondi]

Cheers Screwdriver! The laser still appears quite bright even from the side. Also, you have to check that the dot is in the centre of the primary - which means you have to look at the primary towards the general direction of the return beam. This worries me because there is also invisible laser radiation that may diverge from the main beam. So I'm not quite sure how to use it completely safely. I am very squeamish about lasers in general.

Regarding the IIS discount - yes, that's precisely the discount that I got. I actually took the demo model as it was the only one he had in stock - but it means I don't have to spend over an hour constructing the mount, which is great! The owner seems to be a really good guy. I didn't order online - I called them last week and told them I was calling because of the IIS discount as advertised on this site, and there was no problem when I came in to purchase!

Thanks again for the congrats - the clouds have rolled in but here's hoping they'll clear somewhat for tonight. I'll look at the page you sent me re laser collimation. Meanwhile, still looking for any more specific suggestions on safe usage of the laser collimator. FYI, it's the York Optical GSO-manufactured one.

- DSB

[Screwdriverone]

Hi DSB,

Great to hear, yes the clouds will be with you for at least 2 weeks now you have purchased your scope.

Was it a black or white one? I wouldnt mind seeing a few pics if you can manage these in the cloudy nights.

Cheers

Chris

[bmitchell82]

it would have to be the black diamond version because only 2 weeks ago it was 799 with the 20% discount and thats what i got :D yay but yes its a nice scope. My mirror collmination screws where all loose when i got her so lucky i had the collmination tools. :D all the advice that i can give you with the collmination is roughly get collmination right with the thumb screws then use the flat head to start tightening up the mirror locks. then use the mirror locks to get your final collmination.

[darkskybondi]

Haha yes, as I said in the other thread, Murphy's law applies, of course! Just like when I bought my first modem from the US when I was in high school - 14.4k from US Robotics, very smart indeed at the time. I must have waiting 6 weeks for that baby to ship - at least. Lightning zapped it on the first night. Murphy strikes again!

The scope is the 10 inch "Black Diamond" collapsible Dob that Skywatcher is heavily spruiking in AS&T. Here's a pic - note that the covers are ON - damn clouds!

- DSB

[darkskybondi]

Haha well man - you had all week to tell me you got it for 799 so I could get the same deal! I was working off the York discount page (http://www.yorkoptical.com.au/ShoppingCart/IceInSpace/tabid/988/Default.aspx) which gives a 15% discount to IIS members for anything priced from 800 to 1200. Which brought mine to 850. Got charged $80 for the GSO manufactured laser collimator, FYI. I am an obvious newbie so it is easy to sell me all kinds of things; I've only got a rough idea of what's going on yet!

Hope that makes you feel like you got a better deal, man! :P Meanwhile I'll just be happy if the skies clear up - I can handle outspending you by $50 if I could just see Saturn and Orion tonight!

Cheers
DSB

[Screwdriverone]

D R O O L,

Mighty fine looking scope you have there DSB.

My dilemma now is whether I stretch the budget and go for a 12" version of that puppy, or buy the 12" solid tube for the same amount as your 10" collapsible.....

Decisions, decisions.

Cheers

Chris

PS. thanks for the piccy.

[darkskybondi]

No worries man! I gotta tell you, picking up the 12" collapsible today to feel its weight in the store, I was kind of relieved that it was out of my budget. MUCH heavier than the 10", significantly bulkier. I thought it would be a cinch compared to a full tube; it's a chore just to pick up the collapsed tube. I can pick up the 10", with the mount, by myself, no worries. Obviously I will feel the compromise when I go to my next star party and look through some 12" scopes and bigger. But I think the 10" seems a very reasonable compromise - it's certainly at the very edge of being easily portable, and yet from my limited knowledge, it's seems like it's a decent amount of mirror. And I went into the store with aperture fever, mind you - I was seriously considering the 12" full tube.

Still, you're a big guy (I think you said you were tall?) - you should have no problem with what I regarded as heavy and bulky!

Cheers for all the support! Can I complain again about the skies?

- DSB

[Screwdriverone]

Yes, go ahead, complain, its what you have to do now you are a scope owner. Its OK, we dont mind here, its what we do.

Its a pity that you didnt have clear skies, you might have caught the Jupiter / Moon Occultation. Oh well, catch the next one.

Yes, being 204cm tall, a 150cm tube isnt going to be too difficult for me, however, I havent seen it in the flesh yet so I might have to "offload" the kids for a day of "daddy time" and take a drive to YO and have a look, did they have any 12" solids and collapsibles in store?

That said, it really is only 2.54cm all around difference (yes I know its a difference) on the 10" mirror so I might just fall in love with the 10" collapsible for the same price as the 12" solid after all.

For some reason (maybe its because I am bit of a gadget freak) I prefer the look and function of the collapsible. Or maybe its because I had a very similar idea to make my own DOB before Skywatcher "stole" my idea and I am just jealous, I dont know.

Anyhow, keep those blinds open and hope for some holes in the clouds before it gets too late, although if it clears up later, Saturn will be higher, so its a toss up on what to do here.

Are you on holidays and therefore not needing to head off to bed early?

Cheers for now.

Chris

[darkskybondi]

Yep - I kept thinking, "the 12 inch has 44% more aperture"; I drove myself mad thinking about 25pi vs 36pi, but at the end of the day, it's my first scope, and besides which, there's always a scope 2 inches bigger than the one you buy!

York had the 10" and 12" collapsibles on display, but as I mentioned before, I took their only 10" collapsible model. The only tubes on display were the 6" and 8". Some would say that the collapsibles are better lookers than the tubes; I kind of liked the look of the 8" tube. It was very.. cute. VERY portable.

Missing Jupiter is no real problem because I get an awful view of the west from the northern side of my place - lots of smoke and city lights. That may have to wait for darker skies! I have been staying up very late lately - yep, holidays - but very tired tonight, so might have to give up on the sky in the next half hour... no big deal. Just another day or more to look forward to first view! :whistle:

I'm still a bit wary of using the laser collimator. Don't like lasers, scared of getting my retina fried. If anyone wants to give me instructions (and assurance) over the phone tomorrow, let me know! :lol:

Meanwhile, I bet you're gonna love your new scope, whichever one you buy. I am pretty sure that I will!

Are you also a night owl at the moment?

- DSB

[Screwdriverone]

Hi DSB,

yeah, the wife and kids are all asleep, just here by myself drooling over that collapsible you bought, let me ask you this, do you have it in the room with you and just look at it? If you do, its the right choice. ;)

I am on Annual Leave at the moment so thats why I am up, I got the Godfather parts I, II and III for Xmas so I have been attempting to watch these late at night but I keep falling asleep. :doh:

I may have to go into York and "make them an offer they can't refuse" eh? Maybe put an IC434 in their telescope? << see what I did there :lol: :lol:

Cheers

Chris.

[darkskybondi]

Hehehe yes mine is sleeping in my room with me for the moment. I look forward to seeing pictures of your shiny new dob on IIS soon!

The very best time is late night alone time after everyone else is asleep ... part of why I'm a total insomniac!

Have a good night, mate!

- DSB

[Spanrz]

Well I just picked up a new Bintel 12" Dob today. (yay)
Didn't take too much to setup. Though the instructions differed from the mount slightly (newer mount desgin - older book)

Pretty happy with, just now the weather (broken clouds, slight rain). Always the way (murphy's) when you buy something like this, it's cloudy.
Even if the tube does look daunting to put together, it is easier than I thought.

I picked up a laser colimator and a 2 x barlow. I watched a youtube vid of the laser collimator working. To see how it worked, so I wasn't to concerned wit the laser part.
With the barlow, I picked one up, because I had one a long time and know what difference it can make, but I thought it was a correcting one (view correct way up), but it wasn't...Oh well.
That's next time.

I'll have to wait till tonight for a break in the clouds for it's maiden voyage!

Now the best thing for me, is that I have one eye, so I dont have to squint or shut an eye to view. ;) Unless the made a binocular focuser, then I would be in trouble. Haha

Happy viewing.

[darkskybondi]

Glad you picked yours up, spanrz! Looks like clear skies (at least in Sydney) for tonight!

I'm actually a little concerned that I took the demo model (because they said they didn't have any others in stock). I was so anxious to have my scope that I took the floor model but the mirrors aren't exactly clean and I'm not sure what else could be wrong with it... anyone care to weigh in?

Worried,
- DSB

p.s. tackling collimation with the laser now - I've been reading and I hear that laser collimation is totally inaccurate. Is this true?

[Spanrz]

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=ME-CBtemo7Q
Have a look there, seen that yesterday.

I had a choice of the display model, but said I was happy to pay for new. It was one thing I was worried about (dust) on a display model.

I just watched on Foxtel this arvo, they were doing a thing on the Keck Obs. They clean the mirrors with CO2. Interesting.

Dam weather, it's cloudy here, but still broken, going to try and get some looking, but this Melbourne weather is so predictable. Hahaha.
It's like everytime I look for the Nasa - Shuttle Re-entry on the last pass before landing (seen it before), it "always" is cloudy right at that dam time...Argh!
(crosses fingers, but I got good vibes the wind will clear the clouds, but in no time, they'll roll in again)

[Screwdriverone]

Dont forget DSB, there is a FIVE YEAR Warranty on that baby, so if there is any mirror issues, I would be notifying them toot sweet.

Chris

[darkskybondi]

Yep. I think it's a question of collimation more than anything right now. I don't really want the hassle of swapping the unit if it will basically work fine with some tweaks. I'm hoping to have an experienced amateur have a look at it sometime soon. In the meanwhile I posted the ordeals of tonight in another thread "Disappointed..." in this equipment discussion section - worth checking out as I went from despair to locating Orion neb, a globular cluster (! I think!) and SATURN. I am dying to see Saturn at 300 or 400x magnification with this scope.

Cheers mate!
- DSB

[Vartigy]

How've you found the mechanics behind the collapsible dob?
I haven't the luxery to walk into a shop and view one as yet (location issues), but how sturdy are they with regards to the azi/alti settings?
I take it the tube extends to a locked out position?

You solve your collimation issues?

[Screwdriverone]

Hi Aaron,

I had a look at the 12 inch version of the SWcollapsible dob in York Optical just after Christmas and it is VERY sturdy. Basically the three struts that hold the secondary up have some tension T bars that screw in to hold the secondary still. When released or loosened, the whole secondary cage slides down snugly onto the main tube with no wobbles and is buttery smooth.

Tell you what, if my wife wouldnt have killed me, I was going to buy that 12" on the spot. It looked and moved fantasic!

Best truss design I have seen.

When I can afford one, I am getting one (unless I get a 12" solid tube first and save some cash)

Cheers

Chris

[darkskybondi]

Yeah Chris - sorry I couldn't make it out to the Mountains last weekend - ended up having family up from Melbourne and it ended up being a big weekend, two family birthdays.

Getting to the mountains may require me to crash in Katoomba overnight at a motel. There's a decent place just off the main strip so I may do it soon. Is there another scheduled observe this weekend, or shall we arrange a private one soon? Is the site you use private property?

Let me know and be in touch! Be great to meet up.

[Screwdriverone]

HI DSB,

Yes there is an obs night on this weekend on Saturday, you are welcome to come along. I hope to be there, but if its clear, there will be plenty of members along as well.

Its a $5 donation for the Trust for non members to attend, payable to a WSAAG member like me who can pass it on to the Trust.

There is a closer motel at Faulconbridge (5 mins away) called Pioneer Motel which may suit you if you dont want the extra trek to Katoomba.

Drop me a PM, it would be good to catch up and I cna give you my mobile number for a chat (and so you dont get lost ya city slicker!) :)

Cheers

Chris