A (cheapish) scope for my husband

[The Mrs]

Hi all! :hi:

What a great forum you have here! There's lots of info, however I'm certainly confused! :help:

I'd like to surprise my husband for Christmas with a telescope. Unfortunately I can't afford hundreds of dollars, but surely I can get a decent (read: beginner) one for about $100-$200?

I've been looking in Dick Smith and the Australian Geographic shop but I'm confused as to what's best. I know you all rave about the Dobsonians but do you need to always have that on a table or some sort of stand? Plus I think they are out of my price range.

I know an Alt-Az mount is probably best for us beginners. Is a reflector or refractor better?

We might use the scope for landscapes/birds too.

I've seen the following (all Celestron):

Powerseeker 76mm AZ Reflecting Telescope - $87 (on special) at Dick Smith
http://www.celestron.com/c3/product.php?CatID=5&ProdID=521

Powerseeker 127mm EQ Reflecting Telescope - $226 at Dick Smith
http://www.celestron.com/c3/product.php?CatID=5&ProdID=501

Astromaster 70mm AZ - $229 at Australian Geographic
http://www.celestron.com/c3/product.php?CatID=62&ProdID=422


I've just come across this...:eyepop:
http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/49370fe1073e6d82273fc0a87e01067a/Product/View/L8255


What are we likely to see with these telescopes? Obviously the moon, but what planets? Star clusters? Galaxies? My husband is very much interested in astronomy (and is using his binoculars a lot to look into the sky) but I'd rather spend a little amount first up for an "entry level" telescope and then if he decides he wants to further his hobby he can get a better one.

Also, once our son grows up, maybe he can use this cheap one?

Any help would be much appreciated!

[xelasnave]

Welcome to iceinspace from me... you have selected the best site in the world for astronomy in my hummble opinion.

Do you love your husband???
then goto Andrews Communications, Bintel or Astro Optical sites and have a look.
The scopes you are looking at probably is the best way to destroy anyones interest in astronomy.

If money is a concern it is best to buy what will do the job as anything less is an absolute waste...

A 6 inch reflector or a decent 80mm refractor from those mentioned above is a far better choice.

But as a generalisation I would be looking at spending say minimum of $500.

[xelasnave]

Here you go ...

http://www.andrewscom.com.au/site-section-10.htm

I think you will also find they have some binos 80mm (the width of the "big" lens) and they are about $200...they are fantastic... I love mine and gave up imaging last night simply to cruise the heavens as if I were in a space ship viewing the grandure of it all... I actually prefer them to my 12 inch which sounds strange ..but that is probably just me.

best wishes

alex

[The Mrs]

Thanks Alex. The binoculars he has now are 10x50 so I don't think it's worth it to spend $200+ for an extra 30mm.

So do you think it's not even worth getting a telescope if you're spending under $500?

[dannat]

Does he know his way around the sky with the 10x50's? Does he have a planisphere?

You could consider an 80mm spotting scope - it will usually give upright images if you are using it for ground as well. AndrewsComm have long perng ones at reasnable price.

But if you want to seriously look at the sky most here will recommend a newtonian reflecor on dobsonian mount (most just call Dob). they are unsuitable for ground use though IMO. YOu could get either a 6" or 8" for under $500.

[xelasnave]

All rules have exceptions however I feel the scopes you are considering are really a waste of money..they are the lastest versions of what many in the game refer to as "departement store scopes" good if you want to turn the kids off ever looking thru a scope again.

Persoanlly I would not bother with less than a 6 inch reflector but an 8 inch (still excellent value these days) would be somewhat perfect.

I had a 4 inch which was great and in a dark area it gets you to many objects...

I have "small" binos but they are not the same as the 80mm and lens diameter needs to be looked at different that a subtraction of one size from another... it is about lens area and light gathering ability.

I use a ruff approach to give me a guide... double the radius and multiple by 3 (a ruff application of the radius times 22 divied by 7 thing)

So I get a 27 for a 6inch and a 48 for an 8 inch to give me a ruff relationship of light gathing ability... so the difference between a 6 inch and a 8 inch is not simply 2 inches.... the 8 inch is near double ..this is ruff but I hope you get the drift.

Look at 6 inch dobs and frankly if that is too much just wait until you have the extra cash ...dont think that a "department store scope" can be a stepping stone or if you do see it that way remember that stone is covered in slippery moss inviting a fall.

alex

[iceman]

Hi and :welcome: to IIS!

The only problem with a reflector like a dob, is that for terrestrial viewing the images will be upside down.

Unfortunately, any decent refractor on a decent mount will be well out of your budget. You could potentially get a cheap scope for terrestrial viewing but ultimately for astronomy it'll be mostly disappointing, which will either make him want to upgrade soon (when he can get a dob for astronomy and keep the cheap refractor for daytime viewing), or it will make him give up in disgust.

I hope it's the former and not the latter!

[xelasnave]

I missed Daniels post but it seems the scopes you should consider are even cheaper than I recall...

The main ingredient to good viewing is how dark the sky is...I see you reside in Sydney so if viewing from there one will never see what I see up here in a very dark location...
alex

[xelasnave]

Mike I do use a prism that puts things up the right way on my reflectors on occassion... still for astronomy but I have used it for terrestial viewing ..
they cost little probably take some light but offers opportunity to use a reflector to look at the birds for example.

alex:):):)

[rmcpb]

I'll go on another tack, you could consider a Skywatcher 70 x 500 AZ3 from Andrews.

http://www.andrewscom.com.au/site-section-10.htm

I use one as a grab and go for a quick look if I don't have time to set up and cool the reflectors and I find it fun. It will not challenge the bigger scopes at all but it is very effective on the moon, planets (although they are quite small), the brighter nebule, double stars and clusters.

Really easy to use and learn his way around the sky. He would also need a red torch to preserve his night vision and a plansiphere (I use the large Chandler one).

As mentioned before nothing replaces a dark sky so get in touch with the local astro society and attend their new moon nights. Membership in the local astro society would be a great pressie as well as a nice set of larger binos, red torch and planisphere if the scope and accessories are out of budget. I used a pair of 7x50 binos for years before getting my first scope.

Then start saving for next Christmas for the 8" dob :)

[okiscopey]

You can't get anything worthwhile for $100-$200 for astronomy ... astro scopes start getting reasonable above $350 (if you follow people's suggestions here!)

If the scope is to be used for terrestrial subjects, a spotting scope is probably best.

Try:

http://www.andrewscom.com.au/site-section-10.htm

There's an 80mm one in this 'LP' (Long Perng) section for $349 which will give an upright image and save neck strain due to the angled eyepiece. You will need to mount it on a tripod of course ... perhaps your husband has one already.

I have no connection with Andrews, by the way, but I have one of their 11x70 binoculars and their (Chinese made) stuff is a cut above other Chinese-made goods found in ... ahem ... various shopping mall outlets.

[Coen]

I am going to go against the grain a little on what people have said here.

I have been interested in Astronomy for many years and after a time away recently purchased a new scope as my previous one finally died after >20 years of service and it was an ex-department store 60mm refractor. it was not perfect but sufficient for most things. Would I buy one again - no, as there are better scopes now for cheaper than what I paid for it second hand 20 odd years ago. Yet it got a number of children interested in Astronomy, was portable and I used it for teaching a number of classes (no I am not a school teacher). I knew what the 60mm would do and more importantly what it would not do.

I recently, given the slow death of the 60mm, purchased a 70mm skywatcher refractor mounted on an EQ1 mount from Andrews (web-site above) for about $150 delivered to the door, they are now $199 - the Australian dollar and all that. I have since purchased a few extra higher quality eyepieces say for around $50-$60. The eyepieces that come with the scope are not too bad for a small scope but would fall over pretty quick in a larger aperture scope. The good thing about good eyepieces is that they independent of the telescope i.e. survive an upgrade.

I am enjoying the 70mm, it is permenantly set-up in the family room, can carry with one hand for a quick out the back door to have a look, the quality of the optics is much better than the 60mm and does nice things giving good views of M42, planets (shadows of Jupiter's moons etc), double stars, 47 Tuc, open clusters etc. It will never be as good as a 6" etc but is, in my opinion, a great starter. Couple it with binoculars (basic 7x50 or 10x50s) and some star charts (there are good quality free ones that are downloadable as pdf's that all you do is print them out) and there is more than enough to have a look at to get started before aperture fever sets in (and it will if there is any level of interest in astronomy).

I have had the small scope for a few months and been splitting double stars, resolving the outer stars of 47 Tuc (globular cluster), enjoying galaxies such as NGC253, 55, 300 etc and the myrid of open clusters around the place - looking forward to Carina coming higher again. It is handy for doing sun projection also which can be interesting now the sun is coming out of its minima.

The other advantage of the 70mm is that the kids use it and learn on it something that might cause concern with a >$300 telescope ;)

Remember no telescope, no matter how good or large will show Hubble style pictures or colours of deep sky objects. Colour is visible in stars (some notice it more than others) more than anything else. Another limiting factor is the atmosphere itself which can limit viewing. Do not get fooled by telescopes that advertise high magnifications, magnification is not everything. great views can be had with only 45x to 150x, my main work-horse eyepieces are 36x, 60x and 90x.

Hope that helps,
Coen

[Coen]

I should add that I would love a larger scope and will one day, however, mortgage, kids etc. With regards to refractors the 70mm works, the 90mm would be great and the 102mm fantastic the larger ones again even more. A 6 inch or 8 inch reflector would also be great but as the scopes get bigger the portability goes down.

As always, the answer is it depends on what you want to do and what is the current level of interest is.

[jungle11]

Hi - I'm not going to advise on a scope for your husband - being a typical male I got the biggest one I could afford. (afford?!? hmmm)

But, a free option to learn the night sky is a program called Stellarium. I found it alot more intuitive for a beginner to put what you observe into perspective. The program can show you where the constellations are in the sky in real time.

Just look through the last 2 pages (most recent) of Beginners Start Here and you'll find the link.

Trust me - it's brilliant!

cheers

[jjjnettie]

Hi,
If your husband is enjoying the night sky already, using his 10x50 binoculars, the views he will get through a 60mm, 70mm or a 76mm telescope will be very disappointing. A binocular view of our universe can be spectacular, peering through a small scope with only one eye can be very ordinary.
So , what I suggest is to buy him a pair of zoom binoculars.
Andrews Communications has a pair of of 12-36x70mm zoom binos for just $100. http://www.andrewscom.com.au/site-section-11.htm
You would need to buy a tripod adaptor to go with them, because they would be too heavy to hold steady in your hands.
Oh and you would possibly have to buy a tripod too, if you don't have one already.
Good luck with your decision.

[The Mrs]

WOW! Thanks for all the great replies :D


Daniel, I'm pretty sure he does. He's always showing me things with their technical terms ;). He doesn't have a planisphere. I was going to get some kind of atlas/star map/book sorta thing to go with the telescope.


Good point! We're on the outskirts and it's pretty dark here too!


Thanks for the suggestion. From the specs that I can find, and comparing it to the three I posted above, why would the skywatcher be better than the 127mm or 76mm Celestrons? On the skywatcher website I can only find the model 70x700mm and this seems quite similar to the Celestron 76mm. I'm guessing the one you have suggested is 500mm focal length and not the 700 that I've posted.

The 76AZ Celestron is 76mm apperture, 700mm focal length and 9.21 focal ratio. The 127mm Celestron is 5in apperture, 1000mm focal length, 7.87 focal ratio. What's wrong with this if it's a longer focal length and apperture?


That's another idea I guess! Thanks for pointing out that we'll get a much better look with two eyes. Never thought of that!

Coen, thanks for your informative post. I'm sure most people have started somewhere with some kind of "department store telescope". I doubt that people decide to stargaze and go and jump in and buy a 1500+ dollar scope!

Jungle11, thanks for the info on the stellarium. I will definitely check that out.

Thanks again for all your comments! :thumbsup:

[rmcpb]

I only suggested that scope because I have one just like it and its a little ripper. The mount is well and truely solid enough for it and its a pleasure to use.

[dannat]

most of the zoom binos I have seen the upper range of the zoom range is unasable - the images are terrible ie in the 12-36x, once you get to abobv 15-20x the images degrade and detail is lost

[The Mrs]

Thanks Rob! So essentially, the Celestron with similar specs would be a little ripper too?!

[Coen]

The 76mm reflector does not readily equate to a 70mm refractor. The secondary of the reflector has an impact on the light gathering power: the 76mm reflector might equate to or be worse than the 70mm depending on the secondary.

The 20mm eyepiece included with the reflector would be okay, the 4mm well... and the 3x barlow well... I assume the eyepieces are 1.25 inch in which case can readily get better ones. So probably only getting one eyepiece that would be readily useable.

I can not comment on the optics of the 76mm reflector, never had a Celestron - do remember wishing I could have one of the orange C8's back when i was in school though :). I know the optics of my 70mm refractor are good.

[Glenhuon]

I'd be inclined to go with the refractor, although nowadays most of my observing is done with (larger) reflectors. My little 60mm x 1000 and 10 x 50 binos served me well for many years and was much easier to use. The tripod mount is something that lets a lot of these scopes down. A good test is have a look through it in the shop and give the tube a light tap and see how long it takes to settle down, any more than 5 secs and its too wobbly. Finances kept me from getting something bigger and better for many years, but the old 60mm gave me heaps of pleasant nights under the stars as the mount was rock solid.

Cheers
Bill

[GrahamL]

Hi
http://www.andrewscom.com.au/site-section-10.htm
sell both and they are good to deal with.


AstroMaster 70AZ 70mm x 900mm
refractor on AZ mount $199 is the scope you mentioned in your first post
A fair bit cheaper than the geographic site
It looks like they have tried to make to make something usefull on a budget a little removed from the really junky scopes you can find around this time of year .

Skywatcher 70 x 500 AZ3$199.00 AUD
This is the scope rob mentioned he has and they do sell them round my way so I have had a look at one and they
are a pretty sturdy bit of gear


I've also had a good look at the cheaper two you mention from dick smith
they set em up every year and probably sell plenty of them
I couldn't honestly recomend them to anyone everything about them looks like its about to break off or at the very least going to give you problems imo .

A book to ? http://shop.abc.net.au/browse/product.asp?productid=530365
This one is great very specific to someone grabbing a scope and getting outside to see what they can see
A lot of books in the stores are great but are a very broad introduction to astronomy.

Anyway good luck .. for the $250 you tip into this you'll get plenty of enjoyment and if it dosn't work out you have a
nice little scope to look around with through the day .. just my 2 cents gst inclusive .

good luck and merry x-mass

[Screwdriverone]

Hi There,

Here is my suggestion, go to Andrews site, click on the telescopes, go to the USED AND SURPLUS section and snap up the GS-500 6 inch (150mm) reflector on SV1 mount with motor drive (keeps tracking the object as the earth turns) for only $349!!!

This is a saving off the new price of $150! and is big enough to keep the hubby happy for a long while, satisfies most of everyone's points here, and is still not too much more than your original budget.

Absolute bargain in my opinion and a great starting point without being a rubbish size or quality such as the sub $200 mark.

See what you think, there is a picture in the Guan Sheng section of the website too, so you know what it is you are looking at. I have attached a pic of the scope I am talking about.

Cheers for now, and welcome to IIS. OH and dont forget a copy of Astronomy 2009 for only $20. Indispensable resource.

Chris.

[xelasnave]

I do have a 70 mm which I got because it looked great for the money ($200) and I admit it is very good... in fact I used it a lot until I set it up for a guide unit..the mount was very good also althugh az..overall I could not fault it and certainly could recomend it ...I should have mentioned it earlier but in truth I forgot I had one...

alex

[rmcpb]

The Celestron is an f13 compared to the f7 of the Skywatcher. This means that the Celestron will be a bit like looking at the sky through a straw with no wide views (these are more important than most newbies expect). Another point is that the two mounts are like cheese and chalk, the Skywatcher one will blow the other out of the water easily in ease of use and stablilty.

[MrB]

I was in Dick Smiths yesterday, while there I remembered this thread so had a quick look at their scopes.
PLEASE buy something else.
As everyone alse seems to have mentioned, have a look at the SkyWatcher brand and check Andrews for pricing.

The Dick Smith scopes reminded me of the old TASCO brand.... didn't TASCO buy the Celestron name a few years ago?

[The Mrs]

Ahh, thanks Coen.


Thanks Bill. Yes, finances are tight! I'd like to get him something to start on.


Thank you nightstalker :) I'll have a look at that book. And Merry Christmas to you!


I really can't stretch to $350 :( it sounds like a great bargain though! I did see Astronomy 2009 at Australian Geographic and it does look like a necessity! I will definitely get that. Thank you!


Thanks Alex, I imagine my husband will be the same in the future!



Ahhh, makes sense! Thanks!


Thank you for checking them out for me!


I'm starting to learn so much more, thanks guys! :thumbsup:

I'm now looking at the Skywatchers on the Andrews site.

What's the difference between the Skywatcher 70 x 500 AZ3 ($199), Skywatcher 70 x 700 AZ2 ($149) and the Skywatcher 70 x 900 EQ1 ($199). The last one I can tell has an equatorial mount. But would it be worthwhile to learn (persevere!) with the EQ mount to get a longer scope?

P.S. I've just noticed that Andrews have a 5 year warranty on the Skywatchers. That's pretty bloody good!

[Coen]

AZ = altitude-azimuth mount and the number corresponds to how "beefy" the mount is, the higher the number the stronger and more robust the mount. Given that the quality or otherwise of the mount has a large impact on how steady the image is through the eyepiece when there is a breeze or after you make positional/focussing adjustments it is worth getting a decent one.

The EQ1 is a small mount, I find it sufficient and the image steadies fairly quickly. It matches the 70x900 okay. As with aperture though, can always go bigger ;)

70x900 gives basically f13 and the 25mm included gives 36x magnification with about 1.3 to 1.4 degree field of view (about 2.5 times the size of the moon). The longer focal length (900mm) means higher magnification for the eyepieces but smaller fields of view. Tend to have higher contrast, as a rule of thumb good for planets and double stars, not quite so good on clusters and nebulae. The longer focal length tends to be more forgiving on a few other factors. The EQ1 comes with a motor drive but I have found when I mounted it in the location specified I was forever bumping into it with either the telescope itself or the counter weight. I took it off and have subsequently mounted it on a tripod leg and have an extender to link it back to the mount. Have not used the new arrangement yet though as I have found the occassional twist of the hand-knob sufficient so far. When I commence sketching seriously then perhaps... I bought a GSO 68deg 4 element 15mm eyepiece that gives me 60x and a field of view of about 1.1 degrees and I find it works well - the eyepiece practically lives in the telescope, the views of the Orion Nebula (and the 4 components of the trapezium), 47 Tuc, the Jewel Box etc are very pleasing to the eye. The eyepiece used to be about $30 but it has gone up to about $45 now. The GSO eyepiece does not work quite as well in the shorter focal length scopes (sub f6 or so), or so I have heard anyway.

As you shrink the focal length (e.g. 700mm and 500mm) the focal length shortens (f10 and f7 respectively) so the magnification decreases for the same eyepiece (28x and 20x) and the field of view increases (1.7degrees and 2.5degrees respectively assuming 50degree apparent field of view eyepiece) so larger clusters such as M45 become more easily visible in the entire eyepiece and other objects are more framed by their location in the sky although as a whole they appear smaller.

One thing to note with the shorter focal length refractors is that they can be more prone to colour distortion i.e. the object has a blue edge to it for example. This becomes more pronounced the shorter the focal length and the brighter the object. Part of the expense of the more expensive refractors is the ways and means of overcoming this colour issue (has to do with the properties of the lens itself and the way the light travels through it). Alternatively you can just live with it or buy a filter that cuts it down.

Reflectors tend to have focal ratios from about 4.5 to 10 with 6 the common range. The reflector therefore tends to have wider fields of view than a comparable refractor. While refractors have colour and field of view issues compared to the reflector, the reflector has issues associated with its secondary and potential alignment factors which impact the final image quality. So it is a trade-off.

BTW EQ mounts essentially become alt-az mounts if set to 90 degrees (i.e. living at a pole). So set the mount to be at latitude 90 and you have a sort of alt-az mount with a counter weight.

[rmcpb]

I would put my money on the heavier Alt/Az mount and IMHO an EQ1 is not much chop.

No matter how good your scope is, if the mount doesn't hold it steady then it will disappoint you every time.

[xelasnave]

I find adding weight on the accessory tray stabalises a mount.. my old mounts used to get 11 kls and it worked well...strangly focusing is better.
AND a wonderful run down Coen well considered and very informative.

alex

[The Mrs]

Coen, thanks again for a great post!

So would we be best going with the 500, 700 or 900?

I'm sure he'd like to see some other galaxies, nebulae, star clusters (are these DSOs?) and of course our solar system planets/moon. So I guess we need something that's on middle ground. Obviously with the $$ I'm spending, I don't expect this to be crystal clear and full of bright colours, but just to be able to... put a face to a name... I guess would be good!

Sorry in advance for all the questions, but I'm very slowly learning!

[Coen]

My personal opinion (noting I have owned large f number refractors and once when I was a teenager a 4.25" reflector so my baseline is biased) is any one of the three would be fine.

I can only speak from looking through my 70x900 and I enjoy the views, especially coupled with the GSO 15mm (60x and >1 degree FOV is nice). The 25mm that comes with the telescope is fine to start viewing clusters, M42, 47 Tuc, Omega Cent, the wonderful open clusters near eta-Carina, the Jewel Box etc. The eyepieces that come with the telescope easily split Acrux and Alpha Cent etc. and I see down to around 11.8 magnitude from my suburban skies. Jupiter is small but you can easily see the bands and if the conditions are good the shadows of the Galilean moons as they cross the disk if you beef the magnification (go to 90x or so). The phases of Venus and Mercury are readily discernable. The Moon is a treat at any magnification.

I think the 500 or 700mm will be equally as okay as the 900mm, might get a little more colour distortion (usually blue edges) as you get shorter focal length, especially noticable on the Moon and Venus, Jupiter etc. and you will not get as much magnification as with the 900mm as noted before.

Whilst Andromeda galaxy is up (low though) good views can be had, NGC 253 is also interesting to view (plus other galaxies) although to first time viewers they can be a little disappointing until one learns to appreciate what they are and how to adapt the eye etc.

As other have said get a strong mount, say the AZ3. The logic of the AZ is straight forward the EQ takes some getting used too.

Yes DSO is deep sky object, generally associated with galaxies, nebulae and other faint fuzzies.

Final question that might help with the 500mm, 700mm & 900mm question (for example and assuming magnification is not the driver) is how dark is your night sky? If you are in suburbia then go longer as it will give darker backgrounds. If you live where there are dark skies that make everyone else drool then any focal length works.

If you choose a reflector then hopefully someone else can help as it has been too long ago for me :)

[rmcpb]

Coen has put a very good argument for the longer tube but, I think originally you wanted a scope that would be good for bird watching as well. I would still go for the shorter tube and simply use a barlow lense to boost the magnification and to darken the background. Remember that the maximum useful magnification for these scopes is 140x (twice the aperture in mm) and this will only be on those exceptional nights a couple of times a year. This will give you a guide to the lenses to get with the scope. Magnification is the focal lenght divided by the size of the eyepiece eg. a 25mm eyepiece on the 500mm focal length would be 500/25=20x magnification (a good magnification for bird watching), the same eyepiece on the 900 would be 900/25=36x.

Cheers

[bmitchell82]

Ill add my 2 bobs worth, Astronomy 2009 is a absolute must i own it myself, it explains a fair few things and starts from the start assuming you know nothing.

As for your scope there has been so much QUALITY information given. Just think of it from this way, is your hubby a compulsive tinkerer with technical skills to match or is he more the i don't care about the nitty grittys i just want to do what it is i came here for?

If its A, go the reflector more aperature lets you see the faint fuzzies remebering our eyes cannot resolve colour in much of the sky. look at the southern cross.. there is Blue Red white and yellow stars if im correct.

If its B go the Refractor little less apperature but no need for collmination easy to walk outside drop on the ground and start viewing!

As for price you have your budget, get the most aperature you can buy! that will never fail you!

[The Mrs]

I cannot thank you all enough for all the great replies in here!


On the outskirts of Sydney, can be quiet dark, not far from "the country" but I wouldn't say that it's super dark!



Thanks! I'm now starting to think that we can just use the telescope for astro and the binos for birdwatching. So terrestrial viewing is now off the requirements!

Thanks, will definitely get that guide book. I guess at first he'd like to get out there and see what's around and then further down the track get into the nitty gritties and tinker around with things.

I STILL don't know what to get but am mostly thinking of the 700x900 Skywatcher.

Is there anyone that actually recommends a newt reflector? :shrug:

I know that getting the biggest appeture I can afford is best, and of course the newtonians are cheaper, but most here don't recommend them!

[bmitchell82]

hehehe we actually have been saying Newt all along just in the form of Dobsonian.

there are a few main types of telescopes

Newtonian/Reflector/Dobsonian - Mirror at the back
Refractor - Lens at the front
SCT - Schmitt Cassigrain Telescope - Lens at the front Mirror at the back

if your getting your hubby a 700mm newt we would be green :D because that is massive something like 2 ft mirror :)

but a dobsonian around the 6" mark is nice or a 150mm Newt for 350 is just as nice a few extra bits to fiddle with but all good at the end of the day!:thumbsup:

[The Mrs]

D'oh! :doh: hahaha And I guess with the dobs you'd have to get a mount for it anyway? Unless of course you like laying down on the ground?


LOL no because then I'd also need to re-mortgage the house! :rofl:


I'd love to but unfortunately I really can't stretch it to $350. I was looking around the $200 mark. I know it's not gonna be a superpowered scope, but I just wanted to give him something to get started. Then of course in a years time or few more he can look into what he really wants (needs?!) and get it.

[rmcpb]

I think it was your budget that got us into the small refractors in the first place. That and the terrestrial requirements.

[Phil]

In the end its sound like your husband is a very lucky man to have a wife that is putting in such am effort to buy him a telescope. I have been into astronomy for 25+ years 15 years where with my ex. Not once in the 15years did she ever think of buying astro stuff for me. So what ever you get. I am sure he will love it.
Phil

[Coen]

Dob - Dobsonian: It is a type of mount that is popular because (a) cheap for the aperture it can hold (b) in general robust and (c) simple.
It is basically an alt-azimuth mount and is used for Reflectors. Picture this: Typically looks like a box that is on a restaurant style lazy-susan type arrangement (i.e. a base-plate with turn-table) all of which rests on the ground - so you were almost right :). Visit almost any telescope selling web-site and you will see 6" (and larger) reflectors for sale on Dobsonian mounts for, in general, quite a bit less than an AZ or EQ mount - does not have tripod legs etc. Can have other advantages but as with everything else there is a trade off. Dob mounts have made access to large apertures for sensible budgets just that bit easier. BTW general range for dobs seems to be from about 6" to 12" due to size of the mirror and length of the tube. Can get larger but step ladders then become mandatory and perhaps paid up health insurance.

If you end up deciding to get a telescope, I'd recommend buying from a telescope dealer such as some of the ones listed already in this thread or who are linked to this site. Please stay clear of the department store "cheap" scopes as realistically they are not "cheap" and have pitfalls.

BTW If you have binoculars then have them handy near the telescope when starting out. They make matching what you see with charts that much easier and help familiarisation before getting the finder of the telescope in the right area and then the "looking through a straw" telescope field of view.

Be curious to hear what you might decide.

Merry Christmas. Or if you are from the states "Happy Holidays".

[The Mrs]

Thanks Phil! I am pretty excited about it because I know he will get a big shock when he sees it. He'll probably think we got him the Guitar Hero World Tour pack (by the size of the box)! :rofl: I really want to tell him about this website and everything that I'm learning but I just have to wait another 2 weeks!


Thanks Coen. Merry Christmas to you too!

I'm pretty stuck on the SW 70x900mm now! That will give him a good look-see and will start him off I'm sure!

[rmcpb]

Now that will be a GREAT little starter to get him going. Now start saving for the big one next year :)

[bmitchell82]

GO FORTH AND PURCHASE :d prop that economy up

[The Mrs]

I've ordered the Skywatcher 70x900mm EQ1! :D

I'm so excited! I can't wait until Christmas so I can give it to him.

I even saw in the DS catalogue last night the 127mm Celestron is now down to $176, but I know to stay clear! :rofl:

Thanks again for all the great advice I was given. :thumbsup: You guys are great!

Have a Merry Christmas!

[erick]

Just remember, Christmas night, come back on and ask all the questions needed if you run into any problems getting set up. Pity no evening Moon, nor evening Saturn that night. Go for Jupiter and Venus in the dusk - the brighest points of light to the West! Then as it gets dark, try 47 Tucanae and the Tarantula nebula (NGC 2070 in the LMC = Large Magellanic Cloud). You should be able to see them.

You might want to print out the Southern Hemisphere Dec 2008 map from this site:-

http://www.skymaps.com/downloads.html

And have it handy to help find things. Note that it doesn't show you the location of the Moon or the planets.

Happy Christmas Viewing!

[Coen]

Now, realise that as soon as you open the box, have it set up and ready to use that it will rain or be clouded over for at least a week :)

I hope you and hub enjoy the telescope. I have been enjoying mine, as have the two oldest kids.

Get hold of some good star atlases, planisphere or some such other navigational aid (if you have not already). I recommend Taki's star charts (free, downloadable PDF's down to magnitude 8.5); he even has build your own planispheres. There is also the Tri-Atlas series but the maps are more cluttered (lots of great information) and some free to magnitude 7 atlases too. These help with either finding things to try and look at or finding out what you have just looked at. Plenty of free star-charting/planetarium type software to help as well, some are small downloads others (with lots of catalogues of information) are not so small. There are a number of web-sites that have a constellation by constellation break-down of objects to see. There are plenty of lists too.

If you want/need some suggestions on what might be good to start looking at, only need ask. The great thing is this time of year - Orion, Canis Major, Puppis through to Carina/Crux are all starting to rise again. Lots of great open clusters, globular clusters, double stars, nebulae and the like.

Note with the EQ1: if it comes with the motor drive, I found once it was situated where indicated I tended to find either the telescope tube or the counter weight would bump into it. I took it off (don't really use it anyway). I have since rigged it differently, screwing the motor mounting bracket on one of the tripod legs and getting an old long "slow motion" control cable from an old telescope mount and using that to extend the drive. The cable is a bit stiff and so there is a bit more pressure on a few points but on the whole it makes the motor drive more useful as it does not nearly interfere as much now.

[bmitchell82]

hehehe its only a small purchase :) a weeks cloud cover is 1000+:rofl:

[xelasnave]

Great news... I just thought of something...the image is upside down so dont be shocked...but you can get an erecting prism which could be worth looking into.. I cant remember if we covered that...
alex

[The Mrs]

Thanks Eric! Will definitely come back on and introduce my husband to this site.


:rofl:I've heard of the astro Murphy's Law! I'll get him the Astronomy 2009 book and maybe a planesphere too.

I'm pretty sure it's not a motor drive but that's a nice little tweak you've done.


Oh, no, I didn't think of that! Doesn't matter because really, I don't think we'll use it for terrestrial viewing. I think the binos would be good enough for that. But interesting to know that you can get something to flip it back around!

[rmcpb]

He's a VERY lucky man.

Merry Christmas :)

[The Mrs]

Great service from Andrews! It arrived in 2 days! It's been hiding away for nearly a week! Only 2 days to go....!

I was looking out for Astronomy 2009 and I remembered seeing it in Australian Geographic, but when I went back to get it, it was a calender. Is this right? For some reason I thought it was a book!

[erick]

Yep, it's a book. I'll find a link so you can see what it looks like.


Edit: Here, Mike had put a picture on the thread when he was selling some stock:-

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=49264&d=1224712006

[The Mrs]

OH good! Thanks so much for the quick reply! I'm hoping to duck out today and get it. Hopefully Borders/Angus/ etc have it!

[erick]

Here is the publisher:-

http://www.quasarastronomy.com.au/yb_09.htm

But no phone number to check with them.

Bintel are selling it for $20.

Bintel, Sydney, https://www.bintelshop.com.au/welcome.htm are here:-

84 Wentworth Park Road
Glebe NSW 2037
Australia


Telephone
(02) 9518 7255
Fax
(02) 9518 5711


Email
info@bintel.com.au Email address protected by JavaScript.
Please enable JavaScript to contact me.


Trading Hours
Monday-Friday-9:00AM-5:30PM
Saturday-9:00AM-4:00PM
In December the Sydney Store is open on Sunday 10:00AM-4:00PM

[The Mrs]

Ah, thanks so much Eric! I'm sure I've seen that before, and in the AG shop! It's a bit of a trek for me to get to Glebe so maybe I'll have a hunt around here for it.

If I can't find it I'll order from the website.

Thanks again Eric.

Merry Christmas everyone! :D

[iceman]

There's also an Astronomy 2009 calendar, which probably caused some confusion :)

[erick]

..............but you should buy the calendar as well! :thumbsup: This one:-

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=49759&d=1225834060

[g__day]

Comming in very late - I found Andrews triplet 80 * 20 binoculars simply spectular (compared to 70 * 15 or 50 * 10) - the extra light grasp is impressive. I was until I started looking around Orion that I realised how much better that 10mm of aperature is - suddenly I could see around 40% more stars.

The other purchase I really liked was a second hand Williams Optics Megrez. Its not an apo - but its beautifully solid and focuses amazing well - giving very high contrast views.

[Davros]

Any updates on the pressy opening :D

[Dog Star]

Yeah, c'mon Mrs,
this has now become a shared experience:)
I think we all want to know how it's gone.

[The Mrs]

Thanks for thinking of us!

He was very surprised!!

Whilst we had clear skies last night, my husband was a little, errr, "under the weather" from a fun Christmas day! :rofl:

We put it all together this morning (and had a laugh at the instructions that said, "bolt the tube rings to the mount using the wench provided"). PMSL.

We then set out the back to get the finder scope aligned but we ran out of time because we had some boxing day celebrations to attend.

We'll definitely finish it off tomorrow.

I couldn't get Astronomy 2009 anywhere (Borders even had some astro 2007 book! :screwy:) so we'll just get it from the website. I ended up getting some pack from AG that has maps, planesphere and a red light torch.

So excited to start looking at the sky!

My husband is... over the moon! BOOM-TISH! :lol:

P.S. Hope you all had a great Christmas!

[Davros]

Very nice, get him to poke his nose in here. Hope he has a lot of fun with it. Never be afraid to ask questions either. Weve all been there.

[Coen]

Curious whether it has all worked out with "first light" etc.

[The Mrs]

Hi everyone! Hope you all had a great Christmas and holiday season. We've had a great time, although this heat can bugger off now!



Errrr, well, it's been a little difficult! We just cannot work out how to polar align it correctly and also getting the guidescope aligned properly. It seems we always have to re-adjust it every time!

We have had a good look at the moon :eyepop: it was amazing!

We think we know where Jupiter is (the brightest star in the western sky?) but we have to be quick for it because we have some big trees in our neighbour's yard that are blocking the view, and it's out pretty early, right? By about 9pm it has started to go down behind the trees. I did find it in the scope but it was all blurry?

So that's another problem, when we have a look it seems really blurry. I'm not sure what we're doing wrong!

What eyepiece do you use for what sort of viewing? We have a 10mm and 25mm wide angle plus the 2x barlow. These should be okay for now, right?

We've ordered the Astronomy 2009 book so just waiting on that!

Oh another (probably silly!) question... there's 3 removable parts on the end of the scope (that points to the sky). The little lens cap, the bigger lens cap that's the width of the scope and then also a piece that's like a cup that fits over the scope comes off too.

Are there times when all you do is remove the small lens cap? Or do you always take off the two lens cap pieces? What about the cup type cap?

As you can see, we're COMPLETE beginners! :lol:

Oh, need to invest in some roll-on Aeroguard too! ;)

[erick]

Great! You are under way!

Polar aligning - let's fix a few more things first, then get that sorted.

Is the Moon not coming into good focus. Depending how stable the air is it may be moving around like jelly, but you should be able to get the focus to a fairly sharp spot and it goes out of focus if you wind further in or further out. Use the 25mm eyepiece for this. If not, we'll have to solve that problem first.

End caps (sky end). Yes there are probably caps over both ends of the finderscope. They need to come off. Then for the main scope, take the whole end cover off. Yes, most have a removable cap that allows a much smaller aperture (just the diameter of the open hole, rather than the entire diameter. Forget about that - you won't be using it. You want the whole end open.

I'm fairly sure you are looking at Venus. Jupiter is too close to the Sun now. Venus will always look like a bright white object with no features in our small scopes. You are looking at highly reflective clouds. Given it is never very high and that you are looking at it soon after sunset, the "seeing" is seldom good so it may wobble around. However, you should now see that it is in a crescent form, like the shape of a crescent Moon. Watch it change over the next month or two. You may find it helpful to put the "moon filter" on the eyepiece, if you have one. Venus can be very bright through the eyepieces.

Getting the guidescope aligned. I expect you mean the finderscope? It can be easiest to do that during the late day on a distant TV antenna or tree - so the object doesn't move in the eyepiece like everything in the sky does. Get the object centred in the scope with the 25mm eyepiece. Adjust the finderscope adjustment screws until the object is on the cross hairs. Change to the 10mm eyepiece and repeat. Is the view through the finderscope in focus - sometimes that needs an adjustment. We can tell you how.

Cheers
Eric

[renormalised]

And another piece of good advice....join your local astronomical society. The members there will help you out tremendously and get you up and running in no time flat.

[Coen]

There is a section here on setting up a GEM that might also be of help.

Otherwise, as I have a similar scope, I could possibly put together a series of snapshots and arrows, just can not do it until a little later.

A trip to a local astronomy club, as renormalised said, will get you started pretty quick and also help find a few things to look at too.

[Darth Wader]

Hi all!

I finally decided to sign up here after a somewhat rocky start with the scope that my lovely wife (The Mrs) bought me for Christmas. Yes I know I've taken my time however I was more than a little intimidated by it all as I've only ever used binoculars for stargazing. We managed to set aside a few evenings looking at the Moon, Crux, Alpha Centauri (and what we thought was Jupiter! :rofl:) but I wasn't very confident as there is a hell of a lot of stuff to learn. So after attending an open night for the Macarthur Astronomical society my interest was peaked and my trepidation washed away. I believe that the catalyst was seeing Saturn for the first time that night. All I could think was how fantastic it was that I was seeing this other world. Amazing! My wife and I had a really great night speaking to the extemely friendly members of the club and decided to put more time into the scope and Astronomy in general so here I am! Hopefully I won't ask too many stupid questions but I am quite new to this (I didn't even realise that Myzar was only visible from the Northern hemisphere up until the Mac Astro night!)

Cheers
Wade

[erick]

Good move Wade! Bless your Missus for the present! Tell us what scope you have, what you are doing with it and ask all the questions you want. And do a lot of reading on this site - check out the "Projects & Articles" to the left. :thumbsup:

[Davros]

Welcome Wade
Its a steep but very rewarding learning curve. There is some amazing stuff up there. Very good move going to the local club. Best of luck with the scope. I well remember my first Saturn.
cheers
Mick

[WadeH]

Welcome to a whole new world Wade. LOL. Lots of great people here and no such thing as stupid questions just an interesting learning curve!!

Look forward to hearing how you both progress and about your observations, looks like a nice scope.

Wade

[Darth Wader]

Cheers for the warm welcome fellas! Wow, another Wade! That doesn't happen too often (twice in my life, in fact)!

I've got a Skywatcher 70x900, it's an equatorial mount (not sure which kind though). I haven't polar aligned it because I don't use it to track, I'm just basically pointing it at what I want to see for now. I've been looking at the moon at lot lately but since I went to the Macarthur Astro night last Saturday I've wanted to have a look at Saturn through my scope. I got to see the M42 nebula the other night which still looked great in my little scope even after I viewed it for the first time through an 8" dob at the open night! Hoping to point the scope toward Saturn tonight. I also plan to get up pretty early one morning in the hope of seeing Jupiter before dawn.

My first question I guess would be about eyepieces. I have a 10x and a 25x as well as a barlow lens. The 10x is good for what I've been viewing but the 25x is really disappointing. Each viewing seems to be a trial-and-error affair involving much swapping of eyepieces and gnashing of teeth. Where should I go from here? I'm still iffy on magnification so I'm not sure what I should do next.

Cheers
Wade

[WadeH]

Sounds like you are off to a good start Wade but dont fall into the trap of expecting to see through your scope everything as big or as bright as the bigger scopes. eg: look at this site for comparison for Saturn through different size scopes.

http://astronomy.concreteairship.com/martin-lewicki/saturnseeing.htm

With the eyepieces I expect you mean 10mm and 25mm (not X) these no's should be on the barrel. That would give you: 36X for the 25mm and 90X for the 10mm and 2X these figures with the barlow (72X and 180X respectivly). eg: focal lenght/eyepiece mm. X2 with barlow.

Most of my viewing is done in these magnification ranges, the differance is that my 200mm mirror gathers much more light. The 25mm is good for objects needing a wider field of view (FOV) such as star clusters, nebular and galaxies, wereas the 10mm and barlow would be better for planets and the moon. Also dont forget comets with the 25mm.

Have a go at Omega centauri, globular and the Eta carina nebula both in the region of Crux. They will blow you away and are naked eye from darker sites!

Play around with the eyepieces and barlow in different combanations and above all HAVE FUN!!

:astron:

[Darth Wader]

Woops, I did mean 10mm/25mm! Newbie mistake!

It's strange, the Barlow lens doesn't really prove itself useful for anything I've viewed so far. I was looking at Saturn last night with the 10mm and once I focussed the scope it was magic. I took the 10mm out, put in the barlow and the 10mm on top and all I could get was a blurry little ball of light no matter what I tried with the focus. The same goes for looking at stars, I pointed the scope at M42 last week and tried the barlow to no avail. I tried to see Alpha Centauri with it last night, nothing but black. Could there be something wrong with it? Am I using it the wrong way?

Also wihile I think of it, how do I work out the magnification for each eyepiece (I know how you got 90x for the 10mm eyepiece, but why is the magnification only 36x for the 25mm)?

Cheers
Wade

[erick]

900mm focal length / 10mm focal length = 90x
900mm focal length / 25mm focal length = 36x

If I understand correctly, Wade, the main effect of a barlow lenses is to optically change the focal length of the telescope. A 2x barlow makes yours a 1800mm focal length so the magnification obtained with an eyepiece doubles. If a 3x or 5x barlow, you can work it out. I expect you have a 2x barlow?

So the 10mm focal length eyepiece now gives 180x and the 25mm eyepiece now gives 72x.

Start experimenting with the 25mm and the barlow first. That should give you an idea of how it is performing without pushing the overall magnification up to far.

I suspect that 180x was maybe pushing the scope and conditions when you tried it. In my experience magnification is a bit like falling off a cliff. At some point it just goes plain ugly. On nights of great seeing I have pushed up to 450x. On other nights I leave the 2x and 3x barlows in the case! Nothing but mush!

Keep experimenting with Alpha Centauri until you can cleanly split the two close stars A & B. On nights of poor seeing, this can be difficult - their jelly blobs overlap too far. Also remember to wait until the star is well up in the sky. Around midnight at the moment. Then you are looking through a shorter column of horrible air. :)

[Darth Wader]

Thanks Eric, that clears it up! I really appreciate everybody's help. Will have a go at Alpha Centauri tonight... after a little more Saturn viewing, of course!

Cheers
Wade