Nebulae

[jungle11]

Hi fellas,

I had my first night's viewing with my new telescope last night. Just had a quick question.

Orion and the Tarantula were awsome and the detail was great at all available mags (3!):lol:

And yet I did not have luck with 2 others: the rosette, and the cone? Perhaps I was getting myself lost, but I could find no hint of them at all. I have no filters to work with and I have no prior knowledge about what I should and shouldn't see.

If someone could set me straight it would be appreciated.

Thanks
Jungle

[Blue Skies]

You're not doing anything wrong, they are both tricky objects.

With the Rosette, the size is HUGE - it takes up a large area of the sky. In my 8" f/6 with a 25mm ep I can only see a quarter of it at a time, and then it is very faint and hard to detect. So low power for this one, or as wide a field as you can go and dont expect to see a circle, more an arc of nebulosity.

I can't help you with the Cone, I've never gone for it from memory (or maybe I have, and was unsuccessful and just don't remember...) but it might be smaller than you think...? Nope, don't know, we need someone else to anser there. :shrug:

[bmitchell82]

If i can add one thing in, your eyes arnt that sensitive. and depending on if you have light pollution! other than that i think Jaq has covered it! Keep going and let us know how you went.

One more thing is do you keep observing records, theres a handy dandy little template on here so you know what you tried for and what you didn't, what was successful and what wasn't!

Being a engineering uni student i keep detailed records of everything of the night i observed, eg temp, seeing, conditions ect ect, that way i can come back at a later date and see if things have changed. its what we "amatures do" let the professionals know when something is happening! :D hehehe

Brendan

[jungle11]

Hi guys, thanks for helping out. I will grab this template today - had been wondering if there was some kind of downloadable log - thought I might find one and make my own on the computer and be all 'professional like':P

I think I need to learn more patience - can't expect miracles on the first night. Light pollution at my place is pretty non-existant (knew there was an upside to living in the middle of nowhere) so I should be seing something, just got to learn how to look, and refer to pictures more to reference shape and details.

Anyhow, conjunction night tonight - planning on turning it into an all-nighter (dew permitting)
Let you know how I got on tomorrow.

Cheers
jungle

[Smirnoff]

I've tried for the Cone a few times with my 10", and failed. It's very difficult and you'll need dark skies to see it.

One description I've found likens it to the difference between satin black (the nebula surrounding it) and flat black (the cone itself).

[jungle11]

Hi all, I had another go with some nebulas tonight. Observed the rosette - saw it straight away with the finderscope so i feel like a bit of a dill now! Was able to make out dark nebulosity in the regon of the Cone, but not the namesake itself. Found M78, looked in the region stellarium positioned the Horsehead but couldn't see anything. 30' SE of Alnitak, I made out a quite bright nebula but am unsure of what it is. Stellarium doesn't show anything there even with the nebula labelling on it's highest setting.(It proberly would if i knew the name to search.
My other problem was the Crab, could find no sign of it - will try again later.
Found two planetary nebula. NGC 2438 in Monocerus, and NGC 246 in Cetus - I was really stoked to find them.

[Smirnoff]

That would've been NGC 2023, a small reflection nebula surrounding a mag 8 star.

[jungle11]

Thanks for that, NGC 2023 would account for the brightness of the object I observed. Its slightly west of my position but finderscope was proberly out by a bit. Only thing is, this object appeared to divided by darker nebulosity accross the middle (in eyepiece's perspective). The 'lump star' picture looks like a single cloud as brightness is concerned, but perhaps the picture is a narrow fov compared to my 26mm.
Anyway, I will look at more pictures of this object - thanks for your help.

[bmitchell82]

Another good one that is very easy to see is Saturn Nebula, its a planetary, and though the scope looks like a large blurry star (im in the middle of perth and can pick it quite well. the colours that i get are kind of blue/aqua color. I have imaged it a few times now but with my imaging camera being really a Sbig guide camera it doesn't have lots of resolution but i can make out the rings and balls on the side plus the star in the middle. yay.



other things to go for that are bright

Triffid and Lagoon Neb as they are close together.
Swan/omega neb (lots of stars around that one)
Eagle nebula, you might be able to see the nebula might not. but the other name for it is the Pillars of creation. quite spectacular to view though the camera loads of detail.
Taranchula Neb. thats a big suckker, and you should be able to spot it with the naked eye.
Have you tried to see LMC and SMC? or even the coalsack in Crux?

these are just some that i have had a poke at and they look really cool. another thing if you don't know what your looking at or for look on google pictures, youll know what your looking for and it makes alot easier.!

Brendan

[jungle11]

Cheers Brendan:thumbsup:

Unfortunately, I think I may have missed out on Triffid, Lagoon, Omega and the Eagle nebulae - for now! Very low on the horizon once the sun is down, and now the moon is coming into play too. Might try the saturn neb before the moon is too bright - otherwize I'll catch it around the 12th,13th when the sky is dark again.

I keep going back to LMC, there's so much going on there and the Tarantula is great - takes mag pretty well too. 47Tuc is another showstopper for me as well - have you imaged that one? (dumb question!)

[bmitchell82]

Ive imaged all that i told you about apart from LMC and SMC I havn't had enough clear sky to take the big birther out, the only other problem is the camera that im using has a very small FOV :( only 5.7min by 7 minutes :( but i can get the core of 47 Tuc.

[glenc]

Greg you are doing really well. I haven't heard of anyone seeing the Cone.
You should be able to see M1. Try NGC 346 the bright neb in the SMC.
It is between NGC 330 and NGC 371 in the north of the SMC.
Also try NGC 2174 near M35, it is visible in my 50mm finder.
Others to try are NGC 2359 and NGC 2467 near M93.
A UHC filter is great for nebulae.
See http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=37794 posts #1 and #5 for more.

[jungle11]

Thanks Glenn, I'll write those objects down.
I should add I didn't make out the shape of the cone itself - just darkness in the area which i took to be nebulosity. Perhaps this is rare for a 12? But i guess im privelaged to be living under a very dark sky.

By the way, should the crab be easily picked out? I found two planetary nebula, and yet saw no trace of it?

Will invest in a filter when my bank account recovers from the dob attack:)

[jungle11]

Sorry, just realized the crab is M1. Forgive my ignorance:lol:

[Smirnoff]

In that case, it was likely the Flame nebula (Ngc 2024) which is just to the northeast of Zeta Orionis and is bisected by a dark lane.

[ngcles]

Hi Greg & All,

The Rosette (NGC 2237-8 + 2244) is difficult from the point of view that it is thumpingly huge and has quite low surface brightness. A UHC filter (if you have one) will help but you won't see the whole thing at one go. It is centred around the rectangular shaped cluster NGC 2244.

I have observed the Cone (SH2-273), and it is an exceptionally difficult object requiring great patience at the eyepiece and a pristine sky. The S.B is worse than the Horsehead (IC 434 + B33) and it was, at very best, a threshold detection rather than "seeing it" per se even with the 18". When Smirnoff wrote: "One description I've found likens it to the difference between satin black (the nebula surrounding it) and flat black (the cone itself)." is pretty close to the mark and it is much smaller (at least what could be detected) that you might expect.

The Flame Nebula (NGC 2024) is a nice, bright nebula with a stark dark lane that is quite a good object once you get Zeta Orionis out of the field. And then there is the Horsehead (IC 434) ...

If memory serves (to quote Chairman Kaga on the Iron Chef) there might be an article about the Horsehead and Flame in next month's (Jan 2009) AS&T which should be in the paper shop in about a week.


Best,


Les D

[andrewk_82]

Hi Greg,
M1 should be picked out relatively easily once you know exactly where to look and you go to a dark sight. Surprisingly though, the first time I tried to find it I could pick it out in my 15 X 70 bino's but had trouble with my 10" dob (go figure) :shrug:. This was from skies at home about mag 5.5. I then went to a mag 6 site not far from town and it was quite easy to find in comparison. Maybe it is a bit fainter than you think as it is more spread out than the other PNs that you observed.

Just keep on trying, I'm sure you will find it.

Cheers

[jungle11]

Ahh..eureka!
I was looking for M1 near Alnath, so I guess you could say I got the bull by the wrong horn! (sorry, couldn't let that one pass:P)

Also I will be much more carefull to keep the finderscope centred, it's been my biggest problem i think.

I see what everyone means about patience, but I think I'm beginning to enjoy the hunt.

cheers

[xelasnave]

Where dark dark glasses all day avoid any light at all as I am sure your eyes get better this way. I find over days of viewing and avoiding light all those days I definitely see more... I think I saw horse head once thru a 6 inch but it must have been imagination ... at least I though I could distinguish the cloud it come from... because that is impossible...
Cone never.

Use a hood also like the old photographers over your head and the scope if really having a go.

and find for some galaxies.
Good going.
alex

[xelasnave]

I use a long baffeled "dew cover" (2.5 feet on the 6in sn and 3.5 feet on the refractor) I have not made one yet for the 12 inch.
but they really work in my view to give better views... I am in a dark spot but bathed in starlight I dont want any down my ota...

Hubble has such an arrangement (baffles past the secondary position) and I feel its use give more contrast because light down the ota is greatly reduced...make sure everything is black on the inside of the ota...sometimes a screw is overlooked that need paint for example...

alex

[GrahamL]

hi greg

I find it easy to navigate around monoceros by projecting a few straight lines off three bright stars .. betelgeuse(orion) to procyon(canis minor) to sirius(canis major ).. basically its just a triangle ... the rossetta lies along the base about a third of the way along just inside the triangle .. while here its worth looking for the cluster ngc 2264 outside the baseline of the triangle below the rosseta ..just above it lies hubbles variable nebula ngc 2261 ..

good luck :)

[jungle11]

Thanks NS, when i first started learning the constelations in this area (all of 3 weeks ago!) I used Aldeberan, Rigel, Betelgeuse, Sirius and Procyon to make a letter M. It helped alot.
Thanks for the idea, I'm getting a long list indeed of stuff to aim at! Can see why the interest is a lifetime one. I've always loved space, but this greatly enhances the hobbie.

Thanks

[jungle11]

Another reference i used to view the sculptor galaxy, NGC 247 (galaxy) and NGC 246 (planetary neb), was draw a line from the Paleidas, through Alreshca (tip of pisces) to Diphda.
Works nicely until I've got a better grasp on constellations.

[bmitchell82]

hehehe.... before too long your going to crack it, and go get yourself some good imaging gear :D hehehe so you can document this stuff.!

[jungle11]

It's inevitable really, isn't it...

[glenc]

http://www.palmbeachastro.org/nebulae.htm
This list contains most of the NGC and IC nebulae but does not include NGC 346, IC 2944-48 and IC 4628.
I think this list is the same: http://www.atlasoftheuniverse.com/nebulae.html

[jungle11]

Thanks Glen,
Three nights of cloud! Haven't been able to search for anything else yet. What are my chances of seeing these DSOs with the moon about?

[glenc]

Take a rest when the moon is out.

[glenc]

Here are 86 images of all the NGC nebulae.
http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=37794

[Smirnoff]

The moon will obliterate practically all nebs and galaxies. Even the brightest objects such as the Orion Neb and the Carina neb will be a pale ghost of their true selves. Double stars, the brighter globulars/open clusters and planets are the only objects that stand up well to the moon.

Unless you're a "lunatic", pick up a 6-pack and a DVD instead ;)

[jungle11]

Thanks mate -all better now - moon on christmas holidays:D

Saturn tonight..weather willing...it will be the first time I've seen it through a scope - pity i only have about 160x to bear on it, but i don't think I'll be disapointed.

Cheers Glen - you're lists have and will continue to be a great help.

[glenc]

There is some jet stream up your way Greg so 160x is probably enough.
http://icons.wunderground.com/data/images/au_jt.gif

[jungle11]

You're right mate:sadeyes:

Looked at the local weather - it's starting to stack up, may be worse than jetstream unfortunately. Shouldn't complain - we get great weather up here usually

Oh well, im off for christmas - will catch Saturn when i return.

Clear skies & Merry Christmas:thumbsup: