It's NGC253 season after all....

[Peter Ward]

Mixed some 2008 high res data with some I got same time last year....

http://www.atscope.com.au/BRO/gallery32.html

[leon]

Ah Peter were sick of these NGC 253 images, :whistle: but I suppose we can just fit you into the fantastic basket, :lol: top image mate, as to be expected. :thumbsup:

Leon :thumbsup:

[h0ughy]

bet you spent a few silver dollars to get that shot?

[Peter Ward]

Thanks Leon, but to tell you the truth the whole thing needs a re-shoot. The old data had crappy flat fields, and the scope was not quite set-up right.

My 2008 data is proving to be much better hence yet another work in progress ;)

[Peter Ward]

No silver dollars were harmed in the making of this picture :)

[Hagar]

Very nice Peter. If thats not so good data then I want some. The galaxy has a real 3 D look to it with a deep glow eminating from the apparent flat plane of the galaxy.

Lovely.

[Lester]

Outstanding image.

Very nice Peter.

[sjastro]

Very fine image Peter.

Is this a 14" RC shot?

Regards

Steven

[Ric]

Lovely image Peter.

There is always room for another 253.

[Peter Ward]

Thanks Steve. It is a RC14 image. That said, despite its icon status and size, getting really fine detail in that galaxy I've found to be a challenge.

Getting good data is easy enough, but to get great data I'm moving to the opinion, with narrow field at least, you need to look hard at the seeing etc. to see whether its worth collecting on the night.

[Peter Ward]

Well not only is it NGC253 season, but re-processing seems to be in vogue ;)

http://www.atscope.com.au/BRO/gallery32.html

Now if we could only do something about the south pacific peso....

[Bassnut]

Nice work Peter. Was hoping for those ellusive streamers, there is a hint of them there, but I suspect, as you say, seeing is the limiting factor.

[Peter Ward]

I am not at all convinced that Jay's (albeit visually spectacular) processing is valid, in that it would not be a big effort to pull out a layer and enhance the right spatial frequency to show the streamers.

Recent ESA data: http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap081002.html

despite the *really high* res simply doesn't show the streamers as being dominant....in short it's a long bow to only enhance one part of the data.

[Bassnut]

You have a point there. Jays image is the only one ive seen with those artifacts, ive wondered why. That APOD indeed doesnt show them.

[gregbradley]

Spectacular Sculptor image.

Jays image is fantastic but his processing style is his particular style which to me is a bit heavy handed on saturation and probably leaves too much of a processing footprint so to speak. A bit like the heavily saturated colours in CSI Miami!

Excellent musicians create their definite unique style and that is a good thing. Same with imaging. There is no right or wrong about that simply what the viewer likes or doesn't like.

Those streamers could also possibly be the result of stroking in a vertical direction any dust lanes using the sponge tool set to burn. I have done this myself and whilst it did not look just like his it did bring out a similar effect. So is it a natural condition in the galaxy or an artificial result from the style of processing? The possibility is there either way.

Who knows.

Greg.

[Peter Ward]

It comes down to "enhancement" and reality. It is not a hard task to enhance any part of an image, simply to show some aspect of feature.

However, when literally "brush stroking" in localized sharpening, one needs some "higher knowledge" that the feature is indeed present, and not simply a random interpretation of an astronomical ink blot test.

Really high res images (eg the ESO data I linked to) of NGC253 do not show these streamers. Not much more to say really....

[stevenc77]

I'll bet you think that you are good!................Well you bloody well are!:)

[Peter Ward]

Nah.... I'm just lucky enough to have some really cool toys. :)

[Bassnut]

So, umm, does that mean just the toys are good, like umm, its mainly the tools :shrug: :D :whistle:.

[Tandum]

Peter, check this out. (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/attachment_browse.php?a=47812) Far sharper than yours and done by a noob.

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=35940

[spearo]

beautiful shot!
frank

[Peter Ward]

Humm where did I put my hammer :)

[strongmanmike]

First of all not a bad NGC 253 Peter.

Those streamers are deffinitely real but RJ just enhanced and extended them in a way that I too found a bit fakish but as most agree it is still an amazing image of NGC 253 regardless.

I've posted a link to this before but I still think the best natural looking but very dramatic NGC 253 and surrounds image by an amateur style scope is this one and the streamers are very visible across the disc too but far more naturally:

http://www.spiegelteam.de/ngc253.htm


Mike

[Peter Ward]

Found the hammer...A significantly different re-pro ! (and more recent data)

http://www.atscope.com.au/BRO/gallery32.html


Hard to match high altitude pristine Namibian skies with the light-polluted-smog of Sydney...but it feels good when I stop banging my head against the wall :)

[Garyh]

Nice repro Peter! Finer details showing through :thumbsup:
I just can never see these streamers that people talk about?

[strongmanmike]

Here is the image that has been talked about. The rising streamers have been enhanced in RJ's processing making for a truly amazing image!

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0604/ngc253_gabany_f.jpg

It's a fine line between this image and the Spiegel teams:

http://www.spiegelteam.de/ngc253.htm

I lean slightly toward the Spiegel Team image for its incredible resolution and slightly more natural look but both are bench mark images of NGC 253 in my opinion.

Mike

[Peter Ward]

Thanks Gary. Yep, I'm much happier with this version ( it has about 2 hours of new luminance data). With spatial filtering you can "airbrush/layer" in the apparent streamers.

But they remind me a bit of the "martian canals"....a perceived (due to lack of resolution) rather than real feature.

Weather permitting I'll be trying for more data tonight.

[strongmanmike]

I dunno Peter, if you scroll down to the full res close up image by the Spiegel team the streamers are pretty clear, the galaxy looks like it is full of bushfires with many rising pumes of smoke and they haven't been airbrushed in as far as I can tell. RJ's image on the other hand I concur with you, his version does look doctored some how..? But given the streamers, unlike the Martian Canals, are clearly real, I guess we can grant him a smidgin of artistic license there? ;)

Mike

[Peter Ward]

Yep there is something subtle going on there, but when I look at really high-res data, such as what I pointed to earlier:

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap081002.html

I only see lots of interesting, indeed turbulent, dust lanes with no obvious spikes.

Some sort of celestial Rorschach test? :)

[strongmanmike]

I think that NASA data is too close-up to notice them but they are there too, you ned to view a wide view to make it out I think?

You can notice the streamers in my humble effort from last year even:

http://upload.pbase.com/strongmanmike2002/image/96166688/original

Mike

[Bassnut]

I got a hint of streamers in my image too, without pushing it too hard, no excuses Peter, try harder :D :P.

[Peter Ward]

Err...like the Mariner probes showed craters and not canals?

[marc4darkskies]

Mighty fine image there Peter! :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Cheers, Marcus

[sjastro]

I agree with Peter.

The spikes (particularly along the edge of the galaxy) of J Gabany's image is clearly the result of artistic license.

I can understand why some astroimagers question the ethics of image processing.

Regards

Steven