Argo Navis - if you're happy and you know it clap your hands...

[erick]

Got my AN working last Friday night. Been waiting for what seems like ages for the opportunity.

I had refitted the encoders to the 12", and done the daytime encoder testing. I had experimented with the OTA on a nice flat concrete driveway to see what vertical angle it would get to. Less than 90 deg - hmmm. OK, remove the big rubber bumper I had put in place and discovered that the good Dr Tannehill had carefully placed a felt bumper so the tube stopped bang on 90 deg! So I could move ahead with MODE FIX ALT REF and test the alt encoder sense. Do you think I could get a clear night so I could do a two star align to test out az encoder sense! Tried to do it one night, peering into sucker holes. NOTE TO SELF - don't misidentify stars for alignment - the outcome is not pretty!

So last Friday night at Snake Valley, clear beckoning skies, dob plonked down on the grass (well on my half bricks) so probably not particularly level (I didn't check - I will next time), MODE FIX ALT REF'd on +90 deg with auto adjust on, and away I went to align on Antares and Archenar with a 12mm illuminated reticule eyepeice, then off to check az encoder sense.

This isn't working?? OK, switch to MODE RA DEC to see what was happening. OK, it helps if you plug the alt encoder in! :whistle: I have to remove and reinstall the Alt encoder for each packup/stepup.

OK, back to az encoder sense. OK, I can see clearly what is happening - reverse it and try FIX ALT REF and ALIGN STAR again. Hey this all looks right! Dialed in MODE IDENTIFY, pointed at the brightest object in the sky after the Moon - look, I've found Jupiter. I didn't do any more with the alignment, but just started to tour around between fog banks rolling in and out. Pointing was not too bad (I stuck with objects that were readily visible), coming up in my 30mm eyepiece FOV was no problem. Somewhere in the middle, I worked out how to tweak the pointing arrow direction in az around the right way. I could easily move the scope to 0.0 and 0.0 in alt and az and stop there while I inspected the view for the object.

AN unit was dripping with dew but didn't miss a beat. I still have lots to learn since it intelligently keeps track of what you have done to allow returning to tours etc. which confused me at times.

But a tour of globular clusters in Tucana brought up NGC 121 which I hadn't seen before. Not surprising given NGC 104 (47 Tuc) is so close, it's hard to look elsewhere in the field of view!

So this is great! Need to concentrate on having the base closer to level and then on performing a more accurate alignment. Then to learn (by doing) the AN's capability.

Very happy. Thanks to Gary and Mai for such a great bit of kit! :2thumbs:

[Starkler]

Eric the argonavis certainly is a fantastic piece of kit that multiplies the observing utility of the basic dob. You will see so many more objects than otherwise unless you're extremely proficient in starhopping and finding objects with charts.

When you do your initial 2 star alignment, it is actually effectively calculating the virtual orientation of your scopes base, making levelling of the base unnecessary. The fix alt-ref step provides that reference point.

In choosing alignment stars, you want to pick a pair that give you a good separation in both azimuth and altitude, without getting too close to zenith, so that sufficient encoder ticks are counted to provide sufficient resolution of the position differential in both axis.

I enjoy using mine in tour mode. Do a globular tour, planetary neb tour, galaxy tour. It helps to divide the sky up into segments by setting the " find objects within" say 60 or 90 degrees of the starting point. Make it too big and you'll spend a lot of time zigzagging back and forth as the objects appear to be presented in order of angular distance from the starting point.

With a little bit of practice you'll quickly get the hang of the menus and discover what a fantastic and powerful tool the AN is for deep sky viewing.

Congrats :)

[gary]

Hi Eric,

Thanks for the post and great to hear you are up and going.

Now that you have established the encoder direction sense signs, we recommend
you now start using AUTO ADJUST ON. This then makes setting the ALT
REF point at 90 degrees not so critical, as it will refine it for you based on
your two star alignment.

To set it up, DIAL up MODE SETUP, SETUP ALT REF and enter +090.000.

Then when you perform the FIX ALT REF STEP, use ALT REF=+090.000 AUTO
ADJUST ON.

Perform your two star alignment as normal. The WARP factor should then
be 0.00 (A) where the (A) indicates the ALT REF point was automatically
adjusted. If you see a non-zero WARP factor when AUTO ADJUST is ON or an
(X) instead of an (A), it means something is amiss, such as a
misidentified star or cable not plugged in. Keep in mind that though a
WARP factor of 0.00 is a prerequisite for good pointing performance, it
does not necessarily guarantee good performance. The reason is that the
AUTO ADJUST mechanism bends over backwards to correct the ALT REF point
so as to produce a WARP factor of zero wherever possible, even if you
have misidentified the alignment stars.

If you are curious, push the OTA back to the vertical stop and DIAL up
MODE ENCODER after you have performed the two star alignment. The right
hand displayed value is what AUTO ADJUST calculated your reference point
to be.




You may have come across the MODE SETUP, SETUP GUIDE MODE menus.
These allow you to reverse the sense of the arrows to suit your preferences
and are independent of the encoder direction sense signs. You might also
like to set GUIDE DIGITS to 2 DECIMAL PLACES.



Say you are in the middle of a TOUR and then decide to view some other
object that is not going to be in the TOUR. Press EXIT, use MODE CATALOG or
MODE IDENTIFY to go to your new object. When you wish to return to
MODE TOUR, press ENTER and the word FIND will be flashing. Spin the DIAL
one click and it will change to REJOIN LAST TOUR. Press ENTER. You have
now rejoined your tour at the point you previously left.



This is the type of story we like to hear. :)




Thanks Eric. We appreciate your kind comments and hope that you have many
great nights ahead.

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place, Mount Kuring-Gai
NSW. 2080. Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Fax +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[erick]

Thanks Gary, I'll follow through on your guidance. Two decimal places will test the steadiness of my hand and quality of the teflon/ebony star bearings, I expect! :)

Thanks Geoff - good hints for effective touring! :thumbsup: Eric

[netwolf]

Eric I too have recently joined the club and got myself a used AN. And even though mine is a used unit i have had A+ service and support from Garry. With replies to my emails coming in the late hours of the night on a Weekend.

The product in itself is excellent, but more than the product I think we can all agree that the support from Gary is what makes this product outstanding. He is more than happy to share his wealth of knowledge with anyone who picks up the phone and calls him. Hats off Gary.

I have not had first light with my AN yet due to the weather, but i hope soon i will be able to get it up and running with my Sitech controller.

Regards
Fahim

[erick]

Yep Fahim, mine was second-hand as well but Gary did not hesitate to help with the few questions I had and promptly supplying the cable I needed. I monitor the Yahoo News Group as well so see the breadth of support Gary gives to his product. Instead of saying "read the fla..... manual" he retypes out the basic setup instructions time and time again to we newbies! Well done, Gary. :)

[Tannehill]

Hey Erick, glad to hear you got an Argo. It'll quadruple the pleasure of any scope.

Cheers

Scott

[CoombellKid]

Congrats on the new addition Erick,

I'm about to give mine it's first setup and test tonight.

regards,CS

[wavelandscott]

clap clap...top marks to the Argo Navis...it makes my limited time under the stars more enjoyable!

[AstroJunk]

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

'nuf said...

[dsscse]

Good to hear!
I am still waiting to try and give mine it's first setup and test but for the last few weeks its been un-doable. I have never had such a bad period before and even the nights with just a few clouds, like tonight .... there are gale force winds that turn the dob into a wind-sock and it behaves like its equiped with Go-Away. Ah well the weather may calm down before I die of old age and then I will finally get to MODE FIX ALT REF then watch me pull an all-nighter :eyepop::D

[Craig.a.c]

I need to start putting some cash aside to get one around christmas time. I find starhopping a down right pain in the butt.

[dsscse]

Do it Craig!
It makes life a lot easier and you can spend quality time on the parts of the sky you like, instead of slowly star hopping your night away.

[CoombellKid]

Dont knock star hoping, there is alot to learn and things to see on the way
plus some people enjoy the hunt. And mostly it doesn't matter how good
your go-to is or what variety it is, star hoppers tend to look for more exotic
objects through their endevours. We then use the advantage of modern
technology like computer control systems to complement what we already
know and the coordinates we want to look at.

It is where one wants to take ones enjoyment.

regards,CS

[Tannehill]

I'm with you on that....I don't knock star hopping, but man, I am SOOO screwed when it comes to time-at-eyepiece these days. Work, family, etc. Every minute is precious. So I confess my star hopping skills have atrophied accordingly. I call it star-staggering now. But the Argo gives me more enjoyment per unit time under sky, and I use it always.

unless I'm looking at the moon

which I can still find by myself

usually


Scott

[dsscse]

Sorry if it sounded like I was rubbishing Star Hopping, I wasn't. Its just that these days we seem to have less time on our hands than in years gone bye (didn't they say in the sixties that we would have very little work and huge amounts of leasure time come the turn of the century. But we are now work accessable 24/7) and I have star hopped since my father first taught me how in 1967 (6yrs old) untill now. I have so many demands on my time that I was no longer giving time to the sky and Argo Navis has given me my sky time back. So yes you do see more by star hoping and when I have time I will do it, but I will also take full advantage of new tech seeing how it was the other new tech that has stolen my life and family from me and allows my higher ups to contact me at night, the weekend and on holidays. AAAAAAGH! :-)

[ausastronomer]

Hi Eric,

Glad you are enjoying your Argo Navis and getting the hang of it. I think it's such a great piece of gear I own 2 of them :)

I just wanted to confirm Geoff's comments that levelling the base is a totally unneccessary step with the capabilities of Argo Navis. Just put the scope down somewhere and away you go. With some of the older DSC systems it was a requirement that the scope base be level. Not with Argo.



NGC 362 (Caldwell 104) in Tucana on the Southern edge of the SMC is a wonderfull 6th magnitude globular that never gets the accolades it deserves because it has that other "searchlight" right near by :)

Cheers,
John B

[erick]

Thanks John, yes, I'm clear now - no need to level.

NGC 362. I found it in my early binocular days and would always look for it - testing that I could locate it from memory. Big sister NGC 104 is overwhelming and stunning, but 362 is very nice itself and further away from NGC 104 than NGC 121.

[Kevnool]

Still havent given the AN a run yet Gary , I wish I could stop driving around the countryside ( i got home from Forbes today. )

This sat night is on the may be list if it dont eventuate it will have to wait till weekend after because driving off to Sydney again ( No i,m not a truck driver). I dont want to take it out the front yard as i want its first run to be out in the stix and memorable

Cheers Kev.

[gary]

I just wanted to take the opportunity to thank those who posted. We greatly
appreciate your support and your kind words.

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place, Mount Kuring-Gai
NSW. 2080. Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Fax +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[gary]

Hi Kev,

Sounds like you have been putting in some miles!

At least the saving grace for you there in Broken Hill is that really excellent
dark skies are not too far a drive out of town. Hopefully you will get the chance
during the last couple of weekends in the month near Last Quarter and New Moon
and that the spring weather will be clear and the seeing and transparency
perfect on those nights. :thumbsup:

Best Regards

Gary

[jjjnettie]

I had a phone call from an Astro friend the other day, Chris Thomas, to tell me of the wonderful customer service he received from Gary.
A Company with integrity.

[Craig.a.c]

I have to get one for my 12". What is the going price to set up one up on my 12" Dob?

[gary]

Hi Craig,

Thanks for the interest.

I have sent you a private message with some details. Please don't hesitate
to email me or give us a call should you like to learn more.

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place
Mount Kuring-Gai NSW 2080
Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Fax +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[gaa_ian]

Here in Gove we are about to join the AG club. We are currently fitting the AG to our 18" dob. It's also a good opportunity to give the scope a complete renovation, especially making some improvements to the primary mirror mounting arrangements.
Without the "Push to" assistance of the AG, we tend to go back to the same old same old DSO's.

[gary]

Hi Ian,

Thanks for the post and good to hear the unit arrived in Nhulunbuy.
Great to hear the installation is also a good opportunity for some renovation
work on what is undoubtedly a well loved scope.

At 12S latitude, you would be getting some of the best of both hemispheres,
being able to see both Ursa Major and Crux at the same time.

Once The Wet kicks in around Nov/Dec, does that limit your observing
nights, or on any given night, is there typically a downpour followed by
clearing skies afterwards?

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Wildcard Innovations Pty Ltd

[Quark]

Greetings Gary,
Thanks for the tip regarding a locknut on the Azimuth bolt, where it protruded through the base of the Lightbridge. This addition securely locks the Az pulley without inducing excessive drag into my modified Az bearing system. Prior to the addition of the locknut I was experiencing some rotation of the pulley.

Have sussed out a new observing site not far from Broken Hill that is a major improvement over the one my group had been using. When Kev gets this current rush of work related travel out of the way we will set up together and get his Argo operational.

Thanks again for your most excellent service and assistance with helping me sort out the setup of my Argo to communicate with "The Sky".

Best Regards
Trevor

[gary]

Hi Trevor,

Great to hear the locknut is doing its stuff.

Kev's GSO 16 has a similar arrangement and there is a locknut supplied
in the kit.



Excellent! You are fortunate to live in a part of the world where dark skies
are readily accessible. How many are in your group?

The encoder direction sense sign (+/-) in SETUP AZ STEPS should end up being
identical to that on your LightBridge.

Thanks for assisting Kev.

To determine Kev's SETUP ALT STEPS sign, push the scope to the
vertical, DIAL up MODE FIX ALR REF, ALT REF=90 and press ENTER.
Then DIAL up MODE ENCODER. Push the OTA down toward the horizon.
If the right-hand displayed value becomes larger, i.e. +90, +91, +92 etc.
then reverse the sign in SETUP ALT STEPS. if it decreases, leave it at the
value it currently is set at.[/QUOTE]



Thanks Trevor! You are welcome.

Bet you are counting down to Mauna Kea! :thumbsup:

Best Regards

Gary

[Quark]

Hi Gary,
Our group varies in number, we have a core of 12 plus we get the occasional tourist passing through town and occasional professional people that get posted out here for short periods of time.

Within our core group we have a fair range of equipment, Robinson College has an 8" Dob that is available to us and within the group is a 16" Bintel Dob, 12" Bintel Dob, 12" Lightbridge, 10" Lightbridge, 8" Bintel Dob, Celestron C-8 and a Meade ETX. We also have 15 x 70 Binoc's on a trapezium mount and various other sets of binoculars.

Occasionally we use the 16" eq mounted scope in my observatory. We really have become to successful of late and I can no longer fit the whole group inside my dome, so we now generally observe as a group out of town.

The Argo Navis will be a real boon for group observing and obviously will cut down the time it normally takes us to star hop to the particular target we want to observe. That said, I am very fond of my Herald Bobroff Astro Atlas and I am very pleased with the Argo feature that refers to the HB chart number for the target object.

Regards
Trevor

[desler]

Just get one Craig!

I couldn't be happier, Gary has been great, the mounting and tinkering and testing started to get on my nerves a little, but Gary was good and patient enough to spend some quality time on the phone with me to get me up and running........

The unit is absolutely brilliant!

Darren

[gary]

Hi Trevor,

Thanks for the response. It's great to hear the core group has a dozen regulars.
Plus the occasional professional or tourist!



A nice range of equipment and all handy enough that can be readily transported.



It certainly is an excellent atlas and highly recommended.

We bump into Peter at the occasional star party and we were only chatting to
him a couple of weekends ago whilst walking along the the shores of Lake Hume
at the Border Stargaze near Albury.

Speaking of Border Stargaze, we've chatted on the telephone about your own public outreach
work there in Broken Hill, and you will be pleased to know that the ASAW, that runs Border Stargaze,
is doing a fabulous job in their part of the country. Petra mentioned they had about a thousand people pass
through at the Border Stargaze, many of them local school kids.

Thanks again for the follow up.

Best Regards

Gary

[Kevnool]

Well tonight was the night, Was so suscessfull the Argo-Navis performed better than i really expected.

From the moment the Argo-Navis was turned on it worked like a charm,the 2 star alignment was so easy.

Well i loaded in Messier objects and NGC objects as well as toured scorpius and fornax.

Over 100 objects observed,the laser can go out the window ,star charts are a thing of the past.

WooHoo #1 is happy and clapping his hands.....Cheers Kev.

[CoombellKid]

Ain't that the truth!!!! been giving mine it's initial run over the last couple
of nights. Although I'm still trying to sort out some aspects, like pointing
accuracy but I think it has more to do with the accuracy I've set my local
time.

Actually I sitting there last night wondering what was giving me the bigger
thrill!!! the new 16" up from 8" (oh my, you can see quite a bit more) or
the ease of just dialing up objects wal-lah!!! and not spend hours planning
and printing star charts, and finally not screwing up my neck star hopping.

regards,CS

[Kevnool]

Well i,m still poking around the house this morning with the biggest grin.

I was doing tours with the 0III when i needed it with the Meade 4000 14mm UWA only once did i change to a Meade 5000 26mm.

Collimation was perfect all night the stars in the field were pin points.

Only problem for the night was i forgot to put the step ladder in so Saggitarius was out of the equation, but hey that is only a minor detail.

I didnt want to put a pic in but i thought i better......Cheers Kev.

[gary]

Hi Kev,

Thanks for the post, which is very much appreciated, and you have made our day.

It sounded like you had a marvelous run! :thumbsup:

Thanks also for the photo. Obviously with your dark desert observing location,
you're collecting minimal numbers of man-made photons and just the stuff that
has traveled the distance and thus worthy of being collected in 16" of aperture. :)

With New Moon weekend coming up, I can imagine you can hardly wait for the
next hundred or so objects.

Thanks again for adding an Argo Navis. May there be a lifetime of great nights to come.

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place
Mount Kuring-Gai NSW 2080
Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Fax +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[theodog]

Yep, mine are clapping.
I ordered the AN unit with encoders for the G11.
After an hour I had the encoders fitted and begun the long wait for dark.
Soon after dark I had it initialised and references fixed, following the instructions.
Away I went. It put objects very, very near the field of the 12" f5 with a painfully small field of the SBig 7.:thumbsup:

No longer trying to read vernier marks in low light and moving offsets.
Just look an object up in a planetarium package for size and details, and plug the numbers into the AN catalogue.:D

Software user objects are great to for asteroids.

I use my AN in my obs with a small 240V transformer rather than the batteries. Only issue (not really) is when a blackout strikes and I have to reset references. I might try it on a UPS.

Overall, I have been very happy with my AN except I'm now forgetting my star-hopping paths.:sadeyes:

Great bit of kit -if you can, get one.

[Kevnool]

Good on ya Jeff , Seems like your enjoying the ease of the AN also

I,ll run mine on the batteries for a while as they last a very long time.

Star hopping was good when i had to do it, but for the people without the AN all the time I spent looking up to the sky with one eye on the sky and one on the map was costing me observing time... 99% of the time is now looking through the eyepiece.

Can I keep clapping..........cheers Kev.

[CoombellKid]

Well, I've managed to over come my pointing errors and had a fantastic
time last night. I wasn't setting the FIX ALT REF properly... well
accurately so I used my big Square. Also I logged into the Atomic
Clock and found my local time was 45 seconds out. After I had set these
correctly nearly every object landed in the FOV of my 14mm XW. And
the ones that missed (probably 2-3 out of about 40) were straddling the
EFOV. I knew it had to be a timing thing as the previous night the AN
was accurately in accurate... meaning objects appear to be alway slightly
east of the FOV. So in this case the AN was telling what was wrong...
pretty neat really when you think about, still I got a lot of the manual
read while working on the problem yesterday

I did a tour of Globs in Sagittarius, Galaxies in Fornax and I dialed up
serveral object from Starry Night I had running on the PC inside. The
AN never missed a beat, boy was I having fun

So I'm definitely a happy clapper!!!!! only came in last night because of
work today... but I'm off tomorrow : )))))))

Thanks Gary for a wonderful product, already I dont think I could live
without.

regards,CS

[gary]

Hi Rob,

Thanks for the post.



When you perform the FIX ALT REF step, I recommend you know begin
using AUTO ADJUST ON. Please see the third post in this thread for the
procedure I posted on how to set it up and use it. It is also detailed in the
User Manual in the section on FIX ALT REF.

The beauty of AUTO ADJUST ON is that you can put away the set-square.
You only have to push the scope to the vertical as an initial 'hint' to the
system and AUTO ADJUST ON will compute the ALT REF point for you.



If you are aligning on stars, Argo Navis doesn't require you to set the date/time
or location and unless you are observing satellites, there is no need to set it
to the nearest second. As you know, Argo Navis has an internal lithium coin
cell that maintains the time of day clock even when the main batteries are
removed. This clock is used to determine the position of planets, comets, asteroids
and satellites and is an input into refraction correction. For most observing,
setting it within a few minutes is fine. Likewise, your location setting is
not used as part of the alignment process either.

Your pointing improvement would therefore come about from establishing the
ALT REF point more accurately using the mechanical approach you took.
However, switching to AUTO ADJUST ON will do the same thing for you
without needing to use the set-square.



Non Perpendicular Axis Error (NPAE), which is between the Az and Alt axis
and Collmation Error (CA) which is non-perpendicularity between the Alt and
optical axis can result in predominantly azimuthal error residuals. Some time
in the future you might want to try performing a TPAS run to see if you
can characterize the error.



That's what we like to hear. :)



Thank you Rob.

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Wildcard Innovations

[CoombellKid]

Gary,

Thanks for the tips, I went out and tried them late last night. Can I still
have Refraction On when I have Auto Adjust On?

Having Auto Adjust On, seemed to work ok. I tend to find the alignment
error happens when I do an Align Star in the west and then swing and look
at something in the east. But I also found if I did an Mode Align on the
object (with Auto Adjust On) seemed to fix it, is that how it should work?
I have a feeling this could some sort of mount error. I'll perform a TPAS
once I've become comfortable with what I'm doing.

However in say the above the errors mostly the difference from dead
center to the EFOV.

I think I logged 100+ objects last night through to 1:30am this morning. I
think that would have to be a record for me. It was fairly clear with
trans 7/10 but a touch windy. Which made setting the Mode Fix Alt Ref
a bit hard. Turning on Auto Adjust made that a lot easier.

regards,CS

[gary]

Hi Rob,

Thanks for the post.



Absolutely and we recommend this.

The following background may also be of interest.

What AUTO ADJUST ON does is looks at the angular distance between the
two stars (as a function of time to compensate for Earth rotation) and
looks at the angular distance the encoders *appeared* to move (based on
the initial 'hint' value you gave for the Alt encoder reference point).
If you had got the initial 'hint' value *exactly* correct, these two
angles would be exactly equal (when AUTO ADJUST is OFF, the WARP value
is in degrees and is in fact the difference in degrees between these two
angles). However, chances are you will not have got the initial hint
value exactly right. This is where AUTO ADJUST kicks in. It moves the
Alt encoder zero reference point so that the two angles are exactly the
same and therefore the WARP factor will be zero.

AUTO ADJUST ON can do a wonderful job in refining the ALT REF point.
However, it is also a case of "garbage in, garbage out". For example, if
the user mis-identifies one or both alignment stars, AUTO ADJUST will
"bend over backwards" to make the distance the encoders moved match the
distance between the two stars, even if this means moving the Alt Ref
point to an angle that is far away from the initial "hint" value.
Similarly if the wrong number of encoder steps are set or there is a
mechanical slippage in an encoder. AUTO ADJUST ON will try and do the
right thing and give you a WARP factor of zero, but it does not mean
your pointing will then be precise because it will have incorrectly
compensated in face of these more serious problems.

What we recommend for users to do is to initially test the system with
ALT REF = 90 degrees AUTO ADJUST OFF. In fact, when we designed the unit
we could have made the decision to have AUTO ADJUST ON at all times.
However, AUTO ADJUST can incorrectly compensate for a large class of
problems and thereby 'mask' the problem. For this reason, we make users
conscious of the FIX ALT REF step and allow them to switch AUTO ADJUST
OFF so they can help diagnose a problem for themselves.

As I recommended, never become too preoccupied with the initial manual
setting of the ALT REF point and you can put aside mechanical
aids such as spirit levels and set-squares. AUTO ADJUST ON is
your friend. However, if something seems amiss, the ability to
switch it OFF for a while can help you diagnose a problem.

Argo Navis allows you to see what value AUTO ADJUST ON moved
the Alt encoder reference point to. After you do the FIX ALT REF (with
AUTO ADJUST ON) and the two star alignment, place the unit in MODE
ENCODER. Push the scope back to the zenith stop position and read the
right hand (Alt encoder) value. It should be in the ball-park of 90
degrees. If it is more than a few degrees of either side of this, you
likely have a mechanical problem somewhere.

With regards refraction compensation, as you are aware, this becomes
important close to the horizon, a part of the sky most Dob owners tend
to shun. Refraction modeling uses your lat/long (that of your nearest major
town is fine) along with your time zone and local time. From the location
and timezone and local time, Argo Navis can then compute where the
local horizon is and then apply the necessary corrections. Currently at your
locale, your time zone setting will be +10:00 hours.



In the face of mount fabrication errors (all mounts have them to some extent)
the pointing error residuals will be smallest in the neighborhood of the two
alignment stars. Therefore one strategy is to choose one of the two alignment
stars to be in the area of the sky in which you plan to initially observe. If you
then move to some new part of the sky and find that the error residuals have
increased, one can align on a new object in that area. You can align on
any type of object, including for the initial alignment objects, but stars and
plans are best since their astrometric co-ordinates don't suffer the same
uncertainties that extended objects, such as nebula and galaxies, do.

Argo Navis maintains a queue of alignment objects, and the default setting,
which we recommend, is two objects deep. For true multi-star alignment, this
is where TPAS comes into play.



Brilliant and great to hear that it was a new personal record observing run!

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place, Mount Kuring-Gai
NSW. 2080. Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Fax +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[desler]

Whilst I can't claim to be anything more than a novice. I can't believe how good this unit is. I've just finished a tour, to mag 10 of the LMC, which I cant even see naked eye, due to my light polluted back yard.

Whilst mag 8+ are little more than fuzzy blobs from downtown Werribee, I couldn't be happier.

I agree that the tweaking and playing around can be frustrating, but it's 9.21pm and I've seen more in the last hour, than I used to see in a months worth of star hopping.

Happy days..........

Darren:eyepop:

[gary]

Hi Darren,

Thanks for the post and fabulous to hear you are getting such productive use
from your Argo Navis.

Since most of us live in cities and large towns, your issues with light
pollution are unfortunately the norm rather than the exception. However,
it is amazing how many objects you can observe in less than optimal conditions
such as this, particularly when you know the object you are looking for
is in the eyepiece in the first place. Many a time I have been surprised to
observe objects under such conditions that I had initially suspected would
be impossible to see. The majority of users also have work and family
commitments, so more often than not, a few hours observing from their own
backyard is a luxury in itself, particularly since we live in a world where spare
time often comes at a premium.

Speaking of the LMC, you will be undoubtedly pleased to know that considerable
effort went into the compilation of the catalogs and that the LMC and SMC are
particularly well covered. Many thanks go to Andrew Murrell who acted as
a consultant during the compilation of objects within the Magellanic Clouds
and there is comparatively so little literature on objects within them that it
got down to Andrew getting out the 20" reflector and observing them with him.
One can spend weeks within the SMC alone!

Enjoy the journey!

Best regards

Gary

[ausastronomer]

Hi Rob,

I just wanted to add a few tips to Gary's very detailed comments based on my practical experience of having used several Argo Navis units on dobs ranging from 8" to 25" over the past 5 years or so.

On "any" hand made dob there will always be "mount fabrication errors". If you are a fine wood craftsmen these will be minimal and likely go undetected in normal use of Argo Navis, however in most cases they can lead to detectable pointing inaccuracies caused by the mount. On a couple of scopes I have seen they are significant. As Gary alluded to these will manifest as larger pointing errors when pointing to parts of the sky farthest away from your original alignment stars. This is where TPAS is your very very best friend. Whilst its use and implementaion may appear a little daunting at first it is very easy to use and truly, can make a poorly made telescope look good. That's not casting any aspersions on your craftmanship, just a generalisation that it will offer a significant improvement in pointing accuracy in just about every case. Gary can be very proud of the achievement he has made in putting something as complex, revolutionary and beneficial as TPAS, in the hands of amateur astronomers at a bargain price. It is important that you understand the "basic" operations and setup of Argo Navis as Gary has explained, before you start on TPAS, but my further advice to Gary's advice is to start using TPAS as soon as you think you can handle it.

I would be turning atmospheric refraction "off". If you are doing "normal" Deep Sky and Planetary observing it is not necessary to use it. Whilst it's a nice feature to have in some cases for certain specific purposes, it is not necessary in most normal observing situations. With refraction turned off and a good TPAS model established both my scopes point with an accuarcy better than 10' even very low down. The pointing errors caused by mount fabrication errors of hand made telescopes, tube and truss flexure pointing low down and mirror flop, will greatly outweigh the compensation necessary due to atmospheric refraction in 99% of situations involving hand made dobsonians. When refraction modelling is "on", as Gary explained earlier, it is important to have the date, time and observing location accurately set. If you change location and don't change the settings, with refraction "on" you can find your pointing out by a good bit. I find it far easier to turn refraction off and then I don't need to worry about changing observing locations. With refraction off, I have observed as far apart as Coonabarabran and Albury with my location remaining set at my home address on the Central Coast and had excellent pointing accuracy at all times to all parts of the sky. If I had refraction on I would have undoubtedly had to adjust the observing locations to a fairly accurate degree.

Cheers,
John B

[erick]

This has become a very informative thread, thanks all. :thumbsup:

[gary]

Hi John,

Thanks for the post.

You are absolutely correct in that most Dob owners could get by with REFRACTION
set to ON. As you are aware, refraction effects becoming larger as you near the
horizon and most Dob owners shun this part of the sky. However, we still recommend
to keep it ON as a matter of course and in particular when you perform a TPAS
run.

As it turns out, the NPAE and CA terms are hard to distinguish unless you
take a reasonable number of samples spread over the sky but in particular
having a good spread in Altitude, from near the zenith down to the horizon.
As the effects of refraction can be extremely significant near the horizon, it
is important for the TPAS analysis that REFRACTION be switched to ON.

Best Regards

Gary

[ausastronomer]

Hi Gary,

I guess I am a relic from the prehistoric (pre TPAS) times. I think I recall your advice at some time in the distant past that I should turn refraction "OFF". So I have continued to do that over many years.

TPAS has changed a lot of things, all for the better, so I will remember to turn it on in future and accurately set the date, time and location parameters.

I guess it shows I don't point the scope down near the trees all that often :)

Cheers,
John B

[CoombellKid]

Gary and John,

Thanks for the tips guys. Sorry I haven't been back in here to reply. Too
busy sleeping, observing and parenting. I found a couple of factors in my
pointing accuracy. Firstly the rubber mats on the wet clay earth we have
here in Coombell was a major part. I've removed the mats and the ground
has pretty much dried out since the first couple of outings. I last few nights
the porblem has all but disapated 99% of the objects land in the FOV of my
14mm XW no matter what area of sky to point at, mostly in the center. I
still I reckon I'll should look at laying a slab I think.

Still took all of what you guys said. And John yeah mate! I took up woodwork
again since high school nearly 30 years ago late last year when I built the lil 8"
truss dob for my boy's, And although I did take my time and tripple checked
my measurements even remaking bits that I didn't feel happy with. I looked
at the project more as an engineering problem with cosmetics coming in
second. Still I think it can be sweaten more with TPAS. The system does
have an estimated 3 arcmins backlash about 10% of the FOV of a 14mm XW
which is 32 arcmins. However in saying that you have no problem placing
objects in the center of FOV. Also the dobson hole effect is rather minimal
you can scan around up near the zenith with relative ease.

Gary, I'll have the measurements for the encoder cables when.... ummm
I stop using the scope long enough to take them lol

Anyways thanks for the help guys

regards,CS

[CoombellKid]

FWIW, a backlash I gave above of 3 arcmins was rather generous. It is
actually around 40 arcsecs or about the width of Jupiter.

regards,CS

[Starkler]

Rob if you are using 10,000 step encoders which are the norm these days, you have a pointing resolution of 2.16 arcmin per encoder step.

[CoombellKid]

Geoff,



Yup I have and Yup I knew that. You only notice the backlash when your
scanning around at the eyepiece but even then at around 40 arcmins it is
nothing. I think you will see some in any truss dob.

I know I have a mount error which puts the pointing accuracy out by about
16 arcmins on a 180 degree spread, TPAS run should fix this. However on
saying that the two people so far who have tried my scope didn't pick it up.

All 'n' all I'm pretty happy with the results of the build as well as the
performance of the Argo Navis, both have been a real pleasure to use. I
look forward to the next one :D

regards,CS

[redsquash]

I am in a slight dilema.
I just bought a vixen Porta Mount with a Vixen reflector 130mm f/5 telescope, to start this hobby.

If I bought a Agos Navis would I be making the best use of my funds. I could buy a good 2nd hand scope or killer eyepices if I didnt buy the AN.

Somewhere down the track I will probably by a goto /push to set up, but now I know I cant afford to do both.

How useful would the Agos navi be on my minor Grab and go scope? Most people seem to have at least an 8 inch or 10 inch scope ?
SO I am not sure which direction will be the more productive, though I believe , either option will produce good results.

[Kevnool]

It would depend on if you ever want to read star charts again

All the charts do now is give us a list to view ....cheers Kev.

[GrahamL]

gary or anyone can I retro fit an argo to my homebrew truss dob ?
I'm thinking i should get one after messing around with robs the other night

I'm not sure about my large alt bearings though

[CoombellKid]

I dont think you should have too much trouble Graham. 15" obsession kit
is the smallest they make (as far as I'm aware) for Kriege style truss dobs.
The kit might be a bit big for your scope, How big are your Alt bearings?
is the center of rotation at the top of the mirror box?

I have the Obsession 15" kit on my scope and the Alt tangent arm is 360mm
and my Alt bearings a 23"

In anycase I'm sure Gary will be able to help with more info

regards,CS

[gary]

Hi Graham,

Thanks for the post.

Indeed, retro-fitting Argo Navis systems to home-built telescopes is popular
and if you email me at sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au I would be
happy to provide some obligation-free advice.

Often it is possible to improvise one of the off-the-shelf kits. As Rob mentioned,
the kit used on the Obsession that we stock is a popular choice.

We also have some in-house machining capability here in Sydney and can
fabricate custom components on demand, such as encoder ready Az pivot bolts
and Alt encoder couplings, all at reasonable rates.

We might be able to recommend something suitable if you could let
me know by email the following -

1) The aperture of the primary
2) The type of Alt bearing employed (i.e. full filled-in circle, filled-in semi-circle, non-filled-in semi-circle with/without crossbar, etc).

For the Az axis, please let me know the following dimensions -
1) The thickness of the ground board.
2) The thickness of the base of the rocker.
3) The dimension of the gap between the top of the ground board and the rocker.
4) The dimensions of the current Az pivot bolt.
5) The dimension of the gap of the edge of the mirror box to the inside of the rocker as it passes over where the Az pivot bolt is.

Some photos of the scope can be useful.
Once we have this information, we can supply more specific suggestions.

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place, Mount Kuring-Gai
NSW. 2080. Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Phone +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[redsquash]

Hi kev,
It sounds like the funds should not go to killer eyepieces or other gear, since my aim is to enjoy the stars, rather than enjoy reading a map to find the stars!

Thats a lot of cash to tie up in a small scope .....?
I hate watching the moths fly from my wallet but if the benefit is really there,I don't mind spending the cash .

[gary]

Hi,

Argo Navis installations on "grab and go" scopes are popular, including on mounts
such as the Tele Vue's, Giro 2's, Discmounts, various binocular mounts and the like.
Many users are using these mounts with modest aperture scopes, such as
small refractors. For example see here -
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au/images/alec_dunn1.jpg and here -
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au/images/schick_altaz1.jpg

The motivations of fitting a system to a grab and go scope are essentially identical
to fitting it to larger aperture scopes, namely, helping the user "find more stuff".

Many owners are using their Argo Navis systems on telescopes in heavily
light polluted urban environments and the ability to "find stuff" more easily,
despite these less than optimal observing conditions, means they can
can get the most out of their observing session. For many, work, family and
other time commitments means every minute spent at the eyepiece is
precious time. For these people, an Argo Navis effectively buys them time.

Best regards

Gary Kopff
Wildcard Innovations Pty Ltd

[CoombellKid]

what an excellent and simple idea, Starry Night still has a use after all.

regards,CS

[Starkler]

Charts still have their uses.

eg1. You use the AN to find a faint galaxy and you can see more than one in the fov. Which is which?

eg2. The AN reads 0.0 0.0 but you cant see anything. Where is it? Am I really in the right place? Which of those stars in the fov is that tiny Abell planetary?

[redsquash]

Well , after an hour on the phone from Japan, with Gary, I bit the bullet
There was no sales pressure just information.

Gary had supplied rapid replies to my earlier emails and I can only say his service is well beyond top notch............just exceptional. It was a real delight watching the moths leave my wallet.

I am looking forward to a product that no doubt has the same built in thoroughness that his service showed.

My reason to buy, even though my scope is small ,was to gain quality viewing time in a hectic schedule with often mediocre weather.
I am guessing star hopping can in the beginning be a slow tedious business , particularly if you are not part of a club. You then can slowly locate the evening sky.

I intend to locate the evening sky and then refer back to the star charts to reinforce my knowledge.
Is that being too optimistic?:eyepop:
I apologise if I have taken the topic off thread.

[Kevnool]

Good on ya ...you made the right decsision over the eyepieces i,m sure the eyepieces will come later...but for now you have made a major improvement for your viewing pleasure ....i,m sure you will be impressed as we here all are.

Looking forward for your report on your first night with the Argo-Navis.....cheers Kev.

[erick]

My second night serious use of my AN. Again - excellent!

Started off with an encoder check (last time I forgot :doh:to plug in the Alt encoder that I have to fit every time I setup). That's strange - no change in the Az steps. Find the plug some way out of the Az encoder - push in and all fine now. Note to self - need better protection for that encoder and its plug since I travel with a couple of plastic stools stored inside the base.

Fix Alt Ref +90 deg with auto adjust on. Line up Achernar and Antares for the two star align using an illuminated reticule 12mm eyepiece. And away I went for several hours (on and off between watching some imaging work going on elsewhere). Several hours were below zero deg C, bottomed at -6 deg C :scared:. LCD heater was on AUTO. AN kept on truckin' :thumbsup: Hit targets across the sky pretty close to centre of FOV in a 35mm eyepiece. This is fun!

[goober]

I put one on my 4" Apo on a alt-az mount. I thought it would be overkill, but after using it for six months, I can say it's brilliant. It is so easy to set up and align, and stays bang on target all night (that's more a factor of my mount/encoder installation).

I estimate I observe twice as many objects per session now - the hunt from suburban skies with so few reference stars is much simpler.

I only wish there was some sort of session capture, so you could go back and review your objects observed at the end of a session. That's nitpicking though - it's a fantastic device.

[gary]

Hi Eric,

Thanks for the post and great to hear you are ignoring the sub-zero temperatures
and having fun! :thumbsup:

Best regards

Gary Kopff
Wildcard Innovations Pty Ltd

[Kevnool]

Gary are there any particular ascom or other drivers for the alt/az dob type to allow starry night 6.2 pro plus to interface with the Argo-Navis.

The Meade LX200 drivers seem to work but only as a fork mount but then doing that it positions itself as i,m in South Africa.

Its not really a big issue for me because if i keep playing with it i know i,ll crack it,eventally........cheers Kev.

[gary]

Hi Kev,

Thanks for the post.

The same Meade LX 200 drivers should successfully work with the Alt/Az
mount. The reason is that most planetarium programs simply request the
RA/Dec co-ordinates from the attached telescope computer and these
co-ordinates are identical when pointing at the same place in the sky
irrespective of whether the mount type is Alt/Az or equatorial.

When testing the interface, are you performing a real alignment by pointing
to stars at night or a dummy alignment indoors during the day? This can
make all the difference.

Best regards

Gary Kopff
Wildcard Innovations Pty Lyd

[Kevnool]

Gary Dennis from Broken Hill recieved his AN and ringing me this morning to show him to install and drive it.

Dennis dont own a computer to print the user manual out so i suggested to go to the local library to print it.

I reassured Dennis not to get to wrapped in the manual straight away , only to align and use the catalogue for starters.

He will enjoy the AN Next time observing we will send you a pic of all 3 Broken Hill equipped scopes in line...

Thanks again were all still clapping....cheers Kev.

[gary]

Hi Kev,

Thanks for the post and for assisting Dennis.

He telephoned yesterday and with regards the manual, I suggested if there
was a copy shop in Broken Hill, then simply take the CDROM and have
them print the first 30 or so pages double-sided in black and white.
There is a copyright notice on the last page of the Manual permitting making
a single copy for personal use. I said if he had no luck in finding a copy
shop, then to give me a call.

I have subsequently checked the Yellow Pages and drew a blank as far as
copy services in town. However, your suggestion of the library is a good one
and I know some regional libraries have printers and copying machines
for modest charges.

Your advice with regards initially performing an alignment and then using
MODE CATALOG is excellent. Usage of other features can be deferred to
a later session once one is familiar with the basics of locating an object.

Dennis also said he had modified the telescope so that the Az pivot bolt would
need to be longer than the standard one supplied. I suggested if he carefully
measure the required dimensions, taking into account the clearance of the OTA
over the encoder, we could machine him a custom replacement and simply
swap it for the one he has. He said that he may be able to improvise the
existing one using local resources. In any case, we are here to assist.

Looking forward to the shot of three Broken Hill scopes parked wing-tip to
wing-tip.

Thanks again for assisting Dennis.


Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place
Mount Kuring-Gai NSW 2080
Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Fax +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

P.S.

Wildcard Innovations will be at the IISAC event 31 Oct - 2 Nov 2008.

[Kevnool]

Gary Dennis got the first 60 pages of the manual copied.

He showed me the problem with his 1/2" bolt being short i,m going to
cut and add 42mm to the bolt, Then there should be no trouble after that.

He will be up and observing by this weekend,So will we all.....Cheers Kev.

[gary]

Hi Kev,



That's brilliant.



Thank you Kev, you are a champion. The supplied bolt is machined
in free cutting steel, so it is easy to work with. if you have any difficulties,
just let me know.



Fantastic! Look forward to your report. Once again, thank you so much for
assisting Dennis.

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Wildcard Innovations Pty Ltd

[GrahamL]

hi gary

thanks for the earlier reply.. In the new year I'll contact you with those measurements .. meanwhile i'll drop a pic here so I can easily referance you to it later... the clearance over my az bolt is tight 50 MM .. that counterweight dosn't have to be there.. my alt bearings are 24 mm ply with 3mm brass plate over the top.. its a 12" f5 .

thanks for your time
cheers graham

[gary]

Hi Graham,

Thanks and what a nice looking scope!

If only it could talk.
It even looks to me as if it wants a pair of encoders fitted! :)

The clearance of the Az bolt looks as if it should be OK and the Alt bearing
looks straight forward enough. In the New Year, drop us a line as you've
indicated with the requested measurements and I am sure we can come up with an
installation solution for you that will also be cost effective.

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place, Mount Kuring-Gai
NSW. 2080. Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Fax +61-2-9457-9593
wildcard@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[Kevnool]

Gary heres a Pic of Dennis`s scope,Thought you might like to see it with the Argo-Navis attached.

We got it up and running after changing both ALT & AZ encoders from +0010000 to -0010000 after that Dennis was so happy.

He now can setup ,do a two star alignment, and work with Mode Tour & Mode Catalogue...

Cheers and Dennis says thanks ........Kev.

[gary]

Hi Kev,

Thanks for the picture which is really appreciated. Looks great and I see that there
is even a mounting stalk that one of you has fabricated to hold the unit. Good stuff.

Thanks once again for assisting Dennis and it is great to know he is up and running.

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place
Mount Kuring-Gai NSW 2080
Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Fax +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[koputai]

I'd love to put an AN on my GSO 12" (with encoders on the 8" as well) and would likely get the encoder/mounting kit for the dob. I've seen a couple of pictures of this mount kit, and from what I can remember it was pretty agricultural and didn't work very well (slack and binding etc). I'm sure the real thing must be better than I've seen. Has anyone got more recent experience with this mount kit? Photo's would be great!

Cheers,
Jason.

[erick]

Hi Jason

The AN encoder kit on my 12" works well. I bought it from an owner who knew a good bit about tinkering. Here is a project of his for a stalk to mount the AN unit which includes plenty of mention of the encoder mounting:-

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/63-401-0-0-1-0.html

I took the encoders off for many months until I managed to source a second-hand AN unit. Then reinstalled basically as Scott had them previously. They have worked flawlessly the two or three times I have used it since.

Updates - He shows the alt encoder bracket tied down. I now leave that loose - it just sits on the pin (L hook) under gravity. I since added ebony star strips to the alt bearings, so I work with the tension springs in place, one spring hangs off the brass bolt which is the axis to the encoder. No problem.

He has another project in the IIS listings - for a fan mount ( http://www.iceinspace.com.au/63-400-0-0-1-0.html ). Note that when I took the Az encoder off, I could leave the fan hang loose on the neoprene. Now I have to hold it up with an elastic tie from one side to the other to ensure the fan just clears the encoder as I go for the zenith. Scott was very worried about side-to-side flexure/movement as the OTA moved in Alt. I have done two mods. First I have fitted a piece of "tin" to either side of the base, to just under halfway up the alt bearing. This discourages side-to side movement, and hasn't affected handling. I have just completed a second project, suspending an eyepiece box up behind the scope with two steel bars bolted to the sides of the base. These add significant rigidity to the sides of the base.

I'll get some photos of the encoders, as mounted, over the next week and post them.

I do understand the new GSOs have modified Alt tension arrangements so perhaps the encoder kit has required modifications? Wildcard Innovations can advise, I'm sure.

Eric :)

[gary]

Hi Eric,

Thanks for the post.

Here are some photographs and notes forwarded to us by customer
Stephen J. who improvised a stalk for his LightBridge from parts he found
in a Bunnings Hardware Store.

Stephen wrote -

[gary]

Hi Eric,

Thanks again for the post.

Indeed, the new GSO scopes now come with a different Altitude bearing arrangement
including new trunnions fabricated in aluminium that act as tensioning devices.
They come with thrust bearings inside and are adjustable in height.

These first appeared on the GSO 16 truss pole scopes.

We already have a kit available to suit these scopes. The user needs to
unscrew one of the trunnions and ship it to us for modification and installation
of the encoder coupler.

See here for details -
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au/images/gso16_alt.pdf

Kev (aka Kevnool) has a scope with one of these kits. In Kev's case,
he's trunnion arrived here in Sydney on a Friday and the complete system
was shipped to him by Monday morning, including the re-machined trunnion.

Thanks again for the post and I hope this coming week affords everyone the
most transparent and steady of skies.

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place
Mount Kuring-Gai NSW 2080
Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Fax +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[erick]

Had a good weekend with the Argo Navis on 12" dob at Snake Valley. I'm very happy with it for my purposes. Finderscope is now attracting cobwebs, Stellarium has been put into the background and the lappie is primarily playing music, green laser pointer is staying in pocket!

Not the best conditions - set up on my usual half bricks on a plastic tarp on a few inch long grass - I could feel some rock'n'roll in the mount. I'll be happier on a hard surface. But still aligned well with basic Fix Alt Ref and two stars. If I found the targets were coming up a bit far from centre of 35mm Panoptic, I just did a quick "Mode Align" on the object and carried on. Hope that is a reasonable approach to take.

Randomly toured constellations or "20 deg around that spot" for non-stellars. Saw many new objects. It made finding small planetaries a breeze!

How is everyone else going?

[gary]

Indeed it is and it one approach that we recommend. In the face of finite
geometric fabrication errors within the mount, the error residuals will
be smallest in the vicinity of the alignment stars. So re-aligning in the
region you are currently observing in can take advantage of this.



Brilliant! That is what we like to hear.

Fingers are crossed that this summer brings plenty of good observing opportunities!

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Wildcard Innovations Pty Ltd

[koputai]

I was intending to buy new, but a 2nd hand AN with encoders came up at a price too good to refuse. I'm half way through installing it (some mods due to having a GSO scope but Lightbridge encoder kit) and it's looking good so far.

Cheers,
Jason.

[GrahamL]

Gary I got offered a unit at a very good price by another maker and was wondering can I fit an argo to the supplied mounting hardware?

IT has 4000 step encoders ?... Another looming problem with my az
mounting situation is my az bolt is glued ( thanks dad):thumbsup: into the ground
board.. are the newer encoders bigger height wise ?.

[gary]

Hi Graham,

Thanks for the post.

Indeed you can. Argo Navis is fully compatible with the encoders found on
legacy DSC systems. The encoder cable will also simply plug and play.
Argo Navis has setup parameters menus were you can define the AZ STEPS
and ALT STEPS settings appropriately.



The new 10,000 step encoders are the same height as their predecessors.
You can find a mechanical drawing on our web site here -
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au/downloads/documentation/encoder_dim.gif
If you study it, the thread above the shaft is 0.26" and the body 0.50", a total
of 0.76" (19.3mm).

I gather your existing Az pivot bolt is not "encoder ready"? If you can
remove it we can always create a custom encoder ready replacement for you.
One alternative is that you get a hole saw of the minimum diameter that allows
the existing bolt to the cut out.

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place
Mount Kuring-Gai NSW 2080
Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Fax +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[koputai]

Gary,
What are the maximum and minimum steps/rev that the AN can handle (or realistically use).

Cheers,
Jason.

[gary]

Thanks for the post.

The menus allow step counts up to 9,999,999 steps. However,
when using the encoder interface, one also needs to take
into account the encoder sampling rate. Estimating your
maximum slew speed in degrees/second combined with a
knowledge of the encoder sampling rate can then allow you to
design the appropriate amount of gearing.

The following may also be helpful.

As you are aware, Argo Navis can be powered from a set of AA
batteries. The encoders are the most power hungry devices in
the system. In order to conserve power, Argo Navis powers
them on, samples them, then powers them off, thousands of
times per second. Since the encoders are sampled, there is a
maximum 'tick rate' at which the encoders can be turned and
still read reliably. In communications theory, the Nyquist
Criteria says that one needs to sample a signal at least
twice the rate at which the signal is changing, in order to
sample it reliably.

Even when Argo Navis is powered from an external DC source
with the encoders permanently powered on, (achieved by SETUP
ENC TIMING, TON=xx, TOFF=0), the unit still samples the
encoders. In this case, the maximum sampling rate is around
16,000 samples per second. Hence the maximum slew rate
should not exceed 8000 times a second for the Nyquist
Criteria not to be violated. Working backwards, one can then
determine by how much you can gear the encoders based on
what your expected maximum slew rate is likely to be.

For a 10,000 step encoder geared 1:1, you can slew at
approx. ((16000/2)/10000) * 360 = 288 degrees per second.
The 16000/2 is owing to the Nyquist rate. Therefore you can
also work backwards and if you know in advance what your
maximum slew rate will be you can then determine the max.
number of encoder steps for one 360 degree revolution and
hence your gearing.

Anecdotally, on a colleague's 20" Dob we use quite a lot, we
have been running 56K steps on the Alt axis and 10K on the
Az axis for many years and never seen an encoder sampling
error message and this scope is purely PUSHTO.

The User Manual, in the section on SETUP ENC TIMING,
provides the sampling rates for various settings of the
SETUP ENC TIMING parameter. Using these numbers, one
can trade-off sampling rate/slew speed for battery life.

On some other GOTO scopes, rather than via the encoder port,
encoder data is supplied to Argo Navis via the serial port.
On these scopes, step counts in the millions are not
uncommon. However, for your PUSHTO configuration on a small
scope, I would recommend you aim for something around 10K to
30K steps per 360 degree resolution of the mount.

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place, Mount Kuring-Gai
NSW. 2080. Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Fax +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[GrahamL]

Thanks gary :)

having a good look at my az bolt tonight and scrapeing off a little epoxy I realised the old man didn't machine the bottom bolt/bush out of one piece of brass as I had always thought.. I now have two seated brass bushes
18mm od which are currently drilled to 5 /16 which can presumably drilled out a little more to take an encoder ready bolt ?

[gary]

Hi Graham,

If enlarging the hole, possibly think about accommodating some bushes
with 1/2" (12.7mm) I.D. We could supply an encoder-ready Az pivot
bolt that would slip right into them. In this instance, the encoder would be
mounted above the pivot bolt. Therefore you need to ensure that there
is sufficient clearance as the edge of the OTA passes over where the top
of where the encoder will be. Watch out for any fans or collimation nuts/bolts
to make sure they won't come into contention either.

An alternative is to keep the bushes there and fit a 5/16" Az pivot bolt
which then goes to a timing pulley/belt arrangement. We have exactly something
like this for the LightBridges and mounts such as the GSO truss 16".
Check out the images in the Az installation instructions for a GSO truss 16
on our web site here to see what I mean -
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au/images/gso16_az.pdf
This arrangement has a slightly lower height profile compared to mounting the
encoder directly into the bolt, if clearance is an issue.

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place, Mount Kuring-Gai
NSW. 2080. Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Phone +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[koputai]

Gary,
Thanks for the comprehensive post re encoder counts. Great info.

Regards,
Jason.

[Kevnool]

Hi Gary was reading a post today in genearal discussion ,and with the leap second ,how does the Argo-Navis correct this......I,m betting the answer is really simple......Happy new year Gary and Cheers ....Kev.

[gary]

Hi Kev,

We keep track of it in the firmware. The 34 seconds tends to play a significant part
in some solar system object calculations.

There is a plethora of time standards that are arithmetically inter-related.

People have been messing with time keeping for thousands of years. Back in Sept
1752, there is a whole two weeks missing from the calendar when the English
moved from the Julian to the Gregorian calendar. People actually came out in
the street and protested "Give us back our two weeks". :)

Happy New Year!

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place, Mount Kuring-Gai
NSW. 2080. Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Fax +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[Kevnool]

Poor ole September got a rough deal......Cheers Kev.

[GrahamL]

Well I got some encoders and cable for x-mass .. so let the fun begin :)

I was kindly given an encoder ready bolt .. which I had some doubts about being able to fit to my existing ground board as the bush needed to be removed (glued in there)and drilled out for the larger bolt.Thankfully I smacked it out without much damage and was able to flip it to get a nice snug fit again..the torn ply underneath will be hidden by the locking plate..which I had to make another of as the overall thickness of the rocker box /ground board stopped the bolt locking down by about 5 mm.

The pole for the ago navis is 32 mm I'm planning to run the cable down the inside of the tube atm.

a few pics and a birds eye view of proceedings so far ;)

[gary]

Hi Graham,

Happy New Year!

That is excellent news. :thumbsup: We look forward to hearing how you progress.

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place, Mount Kuring-Gai
NSW. 2080. Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Phone +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[GrahamL]

Same to you gary .. No tricks to putting the encoders into those nylon bushes in the bolt?.. seems a tight fit .. though the old volume pot
I tried first fits very snug in there.. thats a better much idea than messing about tapping the bolt I'll look at that when I do the alt mount.. is the bush glued in there?

cheers graham

[gary]

Hi Graham,

Once the bolt is in place, since it is the type that has a nylon sleeve in the
well where the encoder goes, just push the encoder shaft tight into there
by pressing carefully down. No tricks involved and indeed it will be a tight fit.

To remove, carefully pull the encoder vertically upward. Because of the
forces involved, avoid performing this operation unnecessarily. This
will then minimize the risk of ever damaging the encoder. Once the bolt is
in place and secured, then it is time to push the encoder in. Also check that the
OTA will clear the encoder as it swings over it.

Normally the bushes aren't glued in there.

If the fit is not tight enough, wrap a segment of Scotch tape around the encoder
shaft to enlarge its O.D. and then push it into the nylon sleeve.

Best Regards

Gary

[koputai]

Woohoo!!
I completed mounting my encoders this arvo, and gave the AN its first run tonight. What a marvellous little device! Even though the moon is out, it's humid, and the light polution is terrible, I braved the mozzies for about two hours just having fun with the AN. Will have to do some more reading of the manual to get a bit more efficient at using it, but so far, so good.

Cheers,
Jason.

[gary]

Hi Jason,

Great to hear you wouldn't let warm temperatures, light pollution and mosquitoes
get in the way of a good night out! :thumbsup:

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Wildcard Innovations Pty Ltd

[GrahamL]

been giving spme thought as to how mount the alt encoder
any thoughts most welcome .. I might make up a bush and slightly oversize the hole in the mounting mounting bracket to allow a little bit of adjustment.. though I'm pretty sure the centre of rotation is at the intersection of those two lines.

The tangent arm is 2mm brass I had a piece of lying around .. A little heavier than I would of hoped for

[gary]

Hi Graham,

Looks good. Rather than increase the overall circumference of the mounting hole,
you might want to consider milling it into a slot whose major axis is parallel to the
cross bar on the Alt trunnion. That will allow you to move the encoder side to side.
For the vertical axis, you might want to consider some mechanism to raise or
lower the entire bracket itself. Rather than fasten it directly with wood screws
onto the cross bar of the trunnion, possibly insert a couple of self-threading
brass inserts into the crossbar first. Then fasten the bracket into the self-threading
inserts using machine screws. One can then adjust the bracket in the vertical
direction and then fix it in place with appropriate washers and hex nuts.

Scott Tannehill posted a procedure in PowerPoint format entitled
"Version 4.0 Locating ALT axis on Dobsonian.ppt" which you can find in the
Files section of the Argo Navis User's Group.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/argo_navis_dtc/files/
this can be useful to help center the encoder.

The 2mm brass for the tangent arm is a bit heavy-ish but should be fine.
Refrain from fastening the far end solidly to the side of the rocker.
Use a shoulder screw on the side of the rocker and carefully mill then file a
slot with a transition tolerance in the end of the tangent arm that just slides over
the shoulder screw.

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place, Mount Kuring-Gai
NSW. 2080. Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Phone +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[GrahamL]

Thanks for the great info gary.



So its just sitting over the screw?... Is to allow any movement of the alt encoder to be transfered to movent in the tangent arm rather than
placeing undo strain on the encoder itself ?

I think I'll use nylon bush like on your az bolts .. can It be bought and easily fitted .. I hope to get a couple of mounting options turned up on the old mans lathe later this week.

cheers graham

[gary]

Indeed, just let it slide over the shoulder of the shoulder screw.
That way there won't be enable sideways force imparted to the encoder
should the encoder not be exactly centered or if the bearings aren't
perfectly circular.



Rather than use a sleeve, do you have sufficient clearance for the edge of
the optical tube to pass over the encoder if the head of the Az pivot bolt
were above the inside base of the rocker? If so, consider drilling and tapping
a hole in the side of the bolt to accept a socket head set screw. Then hold the
encoder shaft in place by tightening up the set screw with an approriate size hex
key.

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place, Mount Kuring-Gai
NSW. 2080. Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Fax +61-2-9457-9593
wildcard@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[GrahamL]

Sorry gary I seemed to have confused things .. my az bolt is one of yours and fitted to the base now (pics last page)..my alt mount was the one i was thinking of slipping in a nylon bush ..I might figure something to come of the top of the mirror box like you mention as I'm not happy with that little bracket I've made .. the axis is right down in that corner of the bearing .. which is a real ..pita.

[gary]

Hi Graham,

No, it wasn't you. :) I am on the same page now. :) When you said 'bush' you really
meant bush and not the sleeve inside the bolt.

OK. There are a few ways one can go here. You could use an off-the-shelf
bronze bush. They come in a variety of I.D./O.D & length combinations with
and without flanges. You could use an off-the-shelf polymetric material
bush from someone like Vesco Plastics (http://www.vesco.com.au/).
You could use a bush made of any number of other materials, including
acetal, from someone like Miniature Bearings (http://www.minibearings.com.au/store/categories/bush/all/pics/).
Or you could get some appropriate O.D. acetal rod and turn it yourself.
I'd recommend you start by looking at the bushes at Miniature Bearings Australia
who are up in Qld and you can purchase from one-off online. ;)



That segment on the trunnion, that is currently to the left of your bracket in the photo,
does get in the way a little, doesn't it?

If it wasn't for that segment, ideally you could have a bracket similar to the
one you have but allow the bracket to slide back and forth across the
top of the cross member and then mill a vertical slot in the bracket for the encoder shaft
to allow the encoder to move up and down. This is the opposite way around
to what I suggested before, but the previous suggestion was based on you didn't
do anything to that segment.

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place, Mount Kuring-Gai
NSW. 2080. Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Fax +61-2-9457-9593
wildcard@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[Dave47tuc]

Very happy to have my AN on order and due next week.:thumbsup:

This thread has got many tips for AN users. Should be sticky:whistle:

Thanks Gary:thumbsup:

[gary]

Thanks David,

And welcome to the extended family of Argo Navis owners.

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place, Mount Kuring-Gai
NSW. 2080. Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Fax +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[iceman]

For the absolute wealth of information in here for current and future Argo Navis owners, this thread has been made sticky.

[gary]

Thanks Mike,

And thank you to the forum members who have posted on this thread.
We look forward to your future posts.

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place, Mount Kuring-Gai
NSW. 2080. Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Fax +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[erick]

So my silly thread title lives forever :ashamed:

[Dave47tuc]

For GSO Dobs with ASDX (B model) use this thread.
http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=40158

Or as Gary has said below the 'B' model.:whistle:

:)

[gary]

Hi Dave,

Thanks for the post.

To the best of my knowledge, the "ASDX" designation is simply a suffix
added by one of the Sydney based telescope shops. I don't believe it
is an 'official' GSO designation and I could see no reference to it on the GSO
web site.

We simply refer to them as the 'B' models and the previous generation as the
'A' models. Again, the 'A' and 'B' aren't official GSO differentiators, but at least this
designation convention has the advantage of being extensible with future models. :thumbsup:

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Wildcard Innovations Pty Ltd

[Dave47tuc]

Hi all,
My Argo Navis arrived yesterday, my second AN I had one on a 10" GSO Dob.
My new scope a Skywatcher Collapsible Dob 12"
The AN makes observing so much better so I had to have one again.

So thanks to the great service Gary brings:thumbsup: I have the AN fully fitted on my scope.:D

Pictures tell the story. Gary it all came together well. Have not used it out under the stars yet. But all tests inside worked perfectly.

I used plumbing pipe fittings. I had to make it at a height good for observing. Then easy break down for transport. Phot's show fully fitted then last one mount ready for transport.

I look froward to many great nights out under the stars again with the Argo Navis.:thumbsup:

[danielsun]

Well done and I like the new set up there Dave :thumbsup:. The Argo Navis is a fantastic device.
I have been getting back into the visual side a bit lately and the Argo makes it even more enjoyable.




Cheers Daniel.

[gary]

Hi Dave,

Thanks for the post and the great pictures!

It's looking good!



Excellent! That's what we like to hear! :thumbsup:



Love it! :)



Great stuff! Hope you get some clear skies down there over the long weekend.

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place, Mount Kuring-Gai
NSW. 2080. Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Fax +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[mick pinner]

would there be a noticable advantage in upgrading from 8192 to 10,000 step encoders on a G11? based on accurate polar alignment.

[gary]

Hi Mick,

Thanks for the post.

When going from 8192 steps on each axis to 10,000 steps on each axis,
there is a potential 49% increase in pointing resolution.

However, because the geometric, eccentric bearing and gravitational flexure
errors within the mount/OTA might be causing pointing error residuals significantly
more dominant than those attributed to encoder resolution alone, the approach
we would recommend would be to perform a TPAS analysis.

TPAS stands for Telescope Pointing Analysis System and it is built-into the
Argo Navis firmware. It is described in the User Manual in the section on
SETUP MNT ERRORS.

After one has performed a star pointing test, TPAS can analyse and potentially
compensate for many of the most common mount errors and can even report
and refine any residual polar-misalignment.

With your G-11, what we would specifically recommend is to initially polar the
scope in the way you prefer, either using a polar alignment scope or drift test.
Then set the SETUP MOUNT menu to the GEM EXACT ALIGN setting.
To assist with the information TPAS can report on polar-misalignment,
check that the time is reasonably accurately set in SETUP DATE/TIME
and that your location has been set in SETUP LOCATION.

Then devote one evening, perhaps during full moon, to do an extended
star pointing test. This might entail sampling the positions of say 50 to 100
stars across the entire sky from zenith to within about 10 degrees of the
horizon. Whilst doing the sampling, one can go into the SETUP MOUNT ERR menu
from time to time and perform an analysis to get some feel as to how things
are progressing. You can even start to put an initial pointing model in place
which then starts improving your pointing performance straight away, easing
the identification of stars during subsequent sampling.

Once you have sampled enough data, one can determine which types
of errors within the mount/OTA are likely to be persistent from session to
session and then save these terms into the unit's non-volatile memory.

The real magic of TPAS is that once you have a model in place, on
a subsequent observing session you can re-synchronize the model on as
few as perhaps two to five stars and your pointing performance will be
as good as it was after the extended star sampling run.

A classic problem with GEM's is non-orthogonality between the Dec axis and
the optical axis. This is because the human operator is responsible
for mounting the OTA onto a dovetail or into the rings and if the OTA is
not 'square' with respect the mount head, the telescope will tend to 'look'
to one side compared to where the mount and the associated encoder
system 'thinks' it is pointing.

You might find this case study of a TPAS analysis done on a G-11
interesting. See http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au/group_post_5573/index.html

The above case study includes links to graphs which are in Scalable
Vector Graphics (SVG) format. These are the most intersting part
of the document. Some new browsers, such as Internet Explorer, support
SVG format natively. If your browser does not, to view SVG content, you will need
to load a free Adobe SVG viewer plugin, which is available for
Windows, Linux and Mac OS-X from http://www.adobe.com/svg/viewer/install/main.html

If one passes the mouse cursor over the sampled data on any of the graphs,
the graphic actually reports the error residual for that data point. So the graphics
are interactive.

The 'before' and 'after' cases are most dramatic. Whereas the raw pointing
performance of this particular telescope was about 13.6 arc minutes Root
Mean Square (RMS), the after case dropped it down to 1.1 arc minutes RMS
with the largest error residual being only 1.9 arc minutes. Given the 8192 step
encoder resolution is about 2.6 arc minutes a step, this is an excellent result.

RMS is a statistical metric and popular in engineering applications.
When we say a telescope has a raw pointing performance of RMS of
13.6 arc minutes, we are saying, on average, approximately 68% of objects
fell within a radius of 13.6 arc minutes from the center of the eyepiece
(i.e. a diameter of 27.2 arc minutes) and nearly all of them fell within a radius
of three times that, i.e 40.8 arc minutes.

So you can appreciate to get the mount errors down to the point where the
pointing residual effectively becomes encoder resolution limited can be
highly desirable for some users.

So, in a nutshell, rather than investing in the 10,000 step encoder solution,
I recommend you stick for now with the 8192 step encoders and steep yourself
in TPAS. There is a bit to absorb at first, but using the system in practice
is relatively easy once one is familiar with the concepts. :thumbsup:

By the way, the techniques employed here are essentially identical to that which
professional practitioners perform on all of the world's largest and most
expensive telescopes and the lexicon - terms like RMS, Non-Perpendicular
Axis Error, etc. - is identical as well.

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place, Mount Kuring-Gai
NSW. 2080. Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Fax +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[GrahamL]

looks great dave:thumbsup:

I see your az encoder is belt driven ? .. Is that by choice or just the way
the hardware is supplied for this type of scope ?

anyway thanks for the post you've prompted me back out to the
garage to keep fiddling with my encoder mounts .

[Dave47tuc]

Thanks:thumbsup: Yes it is belt driven. That is how Gary at Wildcard supplied the hardware. I'm sure Gary will have more details why the set up is how it is.
I could not get out last night, but fingers x for tonight. It's very clear at the moment.:whistle:

[gary]

Hi Graham,

For mounts where there is insufficient clearance for the OTA to pass over an encoder
coupled directly into the Az pivot bolts, many of our kits use a pair of industrial timing
pulleys and a timing belt, which creates a lower profile and shifts the encoder
out of the way. The Synta Sky-Watcher 12" Collapsible is such a mount as are the
Meade LightBridge scopes.

Timing pulleys and belts have close to zero backlash and are an ideal solution
in situations such as this.

You can find copies of the installation instructions for the Sky-Watcher Dob
kit on our web site here for the Az axis -
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au/images/synta_az.pdf
and here for the Alt axis -
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au/images/synta_alt.pdf

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place, Mount Kuring-Gai
NSW. 2080. Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Fax +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[Dave47tuc]

First night out with the AN. I made some small mod's, see photo's.
I changed to a bigger tube size and made it so the wires could go through the tubing.
The only thing i had to re set on the AN was one directional arrow.
At late dusk I set the AN on Procyon then Achernar. Then then AN worked a treat for the next 6 hours. No re align through the night. Observed many many objects, way to many to list.
Very happy with the way the AN has come together:thumbsup:.

[gary]

Hi Dave,

Thanks for the post and the two new nice photos showing the rig.

Great to hear the system is delivering objects on demand! :thumbsup:

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place, Mount Kuring-Gai
NSW. 2080. Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Fax +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[GrahamL]

A little time to spend on things this weekend

I'm still not entirely happy with the encoder mounting bracket I made, a little concerned with how sturdy it will be over time
When my father drilled out the ali I think it might of bent it a little as when i mounted it on top of the bearing trunion it didn't seem square to the outside, put it in the vice and bent it back it seems ok now.

The alt axis as far as i can tell is very close to where It needs to be , the black brass faceing plate there is slotted and the final mounting hole is yet to be drilled, I also have a small amount of adjustment in the tangent arm if needed .

[gary]

Hi Graham,

Looks like you have been busy. Noticed where you have attempted to lighten
up your brass tangent arm a little.

Best regards

Gary

[GrahamL]

hi gary :)

yes its fairly light for 2mm brass now ..behind the encoder is also drilled out extensively, the encoder cable covers the holes nicely .

I'm still not sure what you mean by fixeing the bottom end of the tangent arm ? .. wont a floating type arangement allow play to effect the pointing accuracy of the alt motion ?

[gary]

Excellent.



Imagine for one moment that the far end of the Alt tangent arm was just totally
unattached. It then would have several degrees of freedom.

1. It could move toward or away from the side of the rocker (e.g. encoder shaft not
exactly co-axial with the Alt axis of the mount).
2. It could shift radially outward or inward from the center of the Alt axis (for example,
the bearing was not quite circular or encoder not centered).
3. It could rotate around the Alt axis.

What you want to do is ideally have an arrangement whereby '3' is not allowed
but that '1' & '2' are tolerated.

'3' is not allowed because it is in the same direction of rotation as the encoder
itself and will give rise to a positional uncertainty.

However, any geometric error that results in a pointing error residual
whereby, as a side effect, the tangent arm behaves as in either '1' or '2'
cannot be circumvented by holding the far end of the tangent arm fixed.
Instead, the problem can only be fixed by correcting the mechanical source
of the problem, say by re-centering the encoder.

The risk is that, should 1 or 2 be evident, if the far end of the tangent arm
is fixed tight, then any irregularity, say from encoder not being centered, will
result in a force being translated back up the tangent arm and thence
ultimately be applying a sideways force or moment to the encoder shaft itself.
If the force is great enough, it could damage the encoder.

Thus, use a slot carefully milled in the end of the tangent arm that slides
over a locating pin or shoulder screw. The arm will then be free to float
if '1' or '2' phenomena is evident but will not be free to rotate around the
actual axis.

Hope this textual explanation, for what is often best explained by a few
sketches, is clear. If not, I will attempt to clarify further. :thumbsup:


Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place, Mount Kuring-Gai
NSW. 2080. Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Fax +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[erick]

I have the scope in this article:-

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/63-401-0-0-1-0.html

Look for the part:-

"Next problem: when I depressed the telescope tube from zenith to horizon, the tube shifts 8 mm to one side. I presume the altitude bearing is not perfectly circular. In any event, the end result is that my encoder assembly – attached as it is to the altitude bearing – also moves 8 mm to the side. The photo above illustrates this shift. My solution was, again, to avoid screwing the encoder arm to the rocker box. This is actually the recommended technique for many telescopes, including the Obsession: don’t completely tighten either encoder arm, to account for such minor wiggling, although the 8mm shift noted here was more than most premium scopes would manifest. On the Obsession Yahoo group, I’d heard about not even screwing the altitude encoder arm down at all, but rather letting gravity hold it motionless. This worked great in my case. As the photo displays, a small hook (same as that used to “fence in” the az arm) catches the notch in the alt encoder arm; gravity holds it in one place. As the tube shifts left-to-right, the “floating” encoder arm moves with it (along the hook’s shaft) but not in such a way as to register rotary motion.
You’ll note the small hair-bungee tied to the encoder. I thought this might be needed, but in fact, I don’t use it anymore. It just sits there without anything – other than gravity –holding it against screw-in hook other. I was just too lazy to take a new picture."

The photo shows the encoder arm tied to the pin, but as Scott says and I have found, gravity holds the Alt encoder arm nicely in place. I just drop it in place on the pin when I screw in the encoder each time I set up, and it can slide in and out as much as it wishes without affecting performance to the level I need. I have done some work to reduce that sideways movement, but still do not restrict the arm moving in the direction of the axis of the encoder. Obviously the pin should be as close as possible to being parallel to the encoder axis. If it sloped up or down, that would be a problem. Drill the hole straight, tighten the pin up and eyeball it for being "true" was all that was done in this case.

[ausastronomer]

Hi Erick,

Allowing the encoder arm to float will certainly ease the mechanical load on the encoder and on the encoder tangent arm. Unfortunately with 8mm of lateral movement large pointing errors will eventuate. Whilst TPAS does a great job of compensating for mount errors, better pointing accuracy will result if the mechanical mount errors are minimised. That lateral movement of the scope on the altitude bearings is easily eliminated by "shimming" the altitude trunions with teflon pads. My 10" scope had about 7mm of sideways movement before I fitted argo to it. I shimmed it with 3mm teflon pads either side and it is now perfect. I will post picks later today when I get home from work. A further improvement can be obtained by "bracing" the side of the rocker box with a 90 degree tapered brace, to reduce flexure of the sides of the rocker box.

Cheers,
John B

[erick]

I fitted small plates to either side of the base which are screwed into the sides of the rocker base and go about half way up the trunions. I've got some pics in a thread somewhere - cannot find them now (*). This has substantially reduced the sideways movement but does little for the flexing of the base. I'm working on solving that. Remember the joke - keep the tyres and change the car? I plan to keep the 12" mirror and change just about everything else - working on it!

*Edit:- OK, for those interested, there is information in this thread and other threads referenced there:-
http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showpost.php?p=315459&postcount=2

[GrahamL]

Thanks guys I'm understanding things a little better now
I've milled some slots in the ends of my tangent arms now and will fit a
small shoulder screw with a spacer that will do two things ..keep the arm reasonably close to being perpendicular to the encoder mounting bracket at the top of the bearing with a small amount of play .. and if needed allow some sideways movementshould the encoder become a little off centre ?

[gary]

Hi Graham,

Great, you are on-track. :thumbsup:

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Wildcard Innovations Pty Ltd

[erick]

Haven't thought this all the way through as yet but what's the easy (non-thinking!) way to undertake a Messier Marathon with the Argo Navis?

[Dave47tuc]

Erick,
Once set up go to mode catalog. Messier objects and start at M1 then go to M2, M3 etc etc. Some will not be in the sky at the time but just move onto the next one. Record what you have observed then go back to ones you have missed if they have come up above the horizon.

Gary will answer this one as I'm not sure but you maybe able to go to tour mode and them select Messier objects??

Be something you can do at Snake valley camp this March.:thumbsup:

[ausastronomer]

I would set all the Messier objects in an Excel spreadsheet. Sort them by declination and then delete those that have too northerly a declination for you to see from your latitude.

Take the remaining targets and sort them by right ascension. Work out which is the most westerly target that is visible at sunset and put this target first on the list. Then re sort the list by cutting and pasting so that everything follows in right ascension order from your first visible target on the list. Save the file as a comma delimited ascii file, upload it to Argo Navis as a User Defined Catalogue.

Start your scope, wait for dark, align argo; and then just go through the targets in right ascension order by turning the detent wheel one click at a time. Everything in your list will be visible at the appropriate stages of the night this way and you just turn the wheel one click at a time.

I am pretty sure if you hunt around you will find a user defined catalogue of Messier Targets ready for uploading to AN, just for such a purpose.

Cheers,
John B

[erick]

You read my mind, Dave! Yes, this weekend (Mar 28) is the only weekend listed in 2009 to conduct a successful MM!

Thanks John, that sounds like the approach. I have located lists in "viewing order" with plenty of hints to deal with the difficult ones. Particularly M74 and M77 that have to be nabbed in dusk and M30 in dawn. I suspect our southerly latitude will make these early and late ones a great challenge.

I can probably get a head start with the excel spreadsheet on this page:-

http://www.astro-tom.com/messier/marathon_order/marathon_order.htm

I've already decided to cheat and use the Argo Navis-directed scope for those I cannot find quickly in binoculars - shame on me!

[gary]

Hi Erick,

Great to hear you want to perform a Messier Marathon.

As mentioned by other respondents, an optimal way to observe them is
in ascending RA order.

As you will be aware, with the rotation of the Earth, just as the sun and the stars
rise in the East and set in the West, so do lines of Right Ascension. For this
reason, RA is measured in units of time and at any given fixed Azimuth and elevation,
RA sweeps by at a sidereal rate.

With this in mind, you might want to grab an Argo Navis User Catalog with
the Messier objects sorted in RA order. You can find a user contributed
copy of such a catalog on the Argo Navis User's Group under the name
jk_messier marathon_cap.txt which can be found in this folder here -
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/argo_navis_dtc/files/User%20Catalogs%20/

Load the User Catalog as per the instructions starting on page 163 of the
Argo Navis User's Manual.

To use the catalog, you need to determine the starting point. On the night
in question, perform a star alignment. Then point the scope due west and
dial up MODE IDENTIFY, FIND USER OBJECT, FAINTEST MAG ANY,
IN ANY CONSTEL. Argo Navis should then identify the Messier object that
is closest to where the telescope is pointing.

Now, if you then press EXIT and DIAL up MODE CATALOG, USER OBJECTS
and press ENTER, the object that you last identified will be the default object
displayed. Press ENTER in the usual way a few times until the GUIDE
mode display appears and GUIDE to it.

To go to the next object in the User Catalog, you then use a special feature of
MODE CATALOG which is that whilst in GUIDE mode, if you spin the DIAL
clockwise one detent click, you go to the next object in the catalog, which
by definition, will be slightly further East than the one you just observed.
Continue this way for the rest of the night.

For casual touring of Messier objects at any other time of the year, you can
simply push the scope toward the zenith and DIAL up MODE TOUR,
FIND MESSIER, FAINTEST MAG ANY, IN ANY CONSTEL, WITH 180 ARC
and Argo Navis will take you on a tour of all Messier objects currently
above your local horizon. Use the DIAL to advance through the tour by
spinning it clockwise or backtrack through the tour by spinning the DIAL
counter-clockwise.

You can depart the tour, say to look at other objects of opportunity and then
rejoin it at any time. To do this, simply press EXIT whilst in MODE TOUR.
You then might use MODE CATALOG to view some other object. When
you want to continue the tour, DIAL up MODE TOUR, REJOIN LAST TOUR.

Good luck on your Marathon and I hope you get clear weather on the night!

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place, Mount Kuring-Gai
NSW. 2080. Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Fax +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[erick]

Many thanks Gary. I knew there would be a ready solution. :)

[Kevnool]

Wow isnt this great now its sticky and never to be lost......cheers Kev.

[GrahamL]

Sure is kev:thumbsup:.. my encoder mounting seems ok .. I get a very small deflection on one point on one of my alt axis .. I'm thinking its one or both of my alt bearings arn't exactly the same at this point .. anyway the amount of movement at the end of my tangent arm is 1/2 mm and would then likely be much smaller again if measured closer to the encoder and if my thinking is right??.

Gary I reset the encoder resolution to 10 000 steps on both axis
thats right isn't it ?

I finished making my stalk for mounting the unit .. built a small box to fit it in and welded a bit of flat to the 32 mm tube ...cables up the middle .. those cradles on the newer
models would be a real time saver in regard imo .

spose I'm not to far from giving it a try .. not sure how a two cloud alignment will work out but we'll see :)

cheers graham

[gary]

If the movement of which you write is toward and away from the side of the
rocker, then of course the arm will deflect less in distance if measured toward
the encoder end, but the angle by which it deflects will be the same, irrespective
from which end it is measured.

if the movement is radial, toward or away the Alt axis, the radial distance the
arm moves by will be the same irrespective of where it is measured along the arm.



That is correct.

To determine the encoder direction senses, you may find the following
alternative procedure beneficial -

To check the SETUP ALT STEPS sign, point the Optical Tube Assembly (OTA)
to the vertical and DIAL up MODE FIX ALT REF, ALT REF=+90, AUTO ADJUST
OFF and then press ENTER. Now DIAL up MODE ENCODER. The right-hand
displayed value should be close to +90 degrees. Now push the OTA
downward in Altitude toward the horizon. The right-hand displayed value
should decrease, +89, +88, ... +3, +2, +1, 0 as you go from the zenith
toward the horizon. If not, reverse the SETUP ALT STEPS sign and repeat
the test.

Once the ALT STEPS sign is correctly established, perform a FIX ALT
REF and two-star alignment. Now DIAL up MODE RA DEC (not MODE
ENCODER). Point the OTA at the approximate intersection of the
meridian* and celestial equator* (see below). Now sweep the OTA from that point
toward the East, roughly following the celestial equator. RA (left-hand value) should
be increasing on the display (it will wrap at 23:59.0 back to 00:00.0).
If it is decreasing, reverse the SETUP AZ STEPS sign and repeat the
test.


One you have established the signs, try the following test as well.
Firstly, go to MODE SETUP, SETUP GUIDE and set the number of GUIDE
DECIMAL to 2 DECIMAL PLACES. Perform a FIX ALT REF and two-star
alignment. GUIDE back to one of the original two alignment stars. Note
that the display shows close to 0.00 0.00. Wait 15 minutes and GUIDE
back to the same star. Does the display still show close to 0.00 0.00?
Now GUIDE to a third star, well away from the original two in some other
part of the sky, and check that the angular error residual of this third
star is small.

As mentioned in the User Manual, irrespective of which way the
arrows point in GUIDE mode, always push the scope in a direction
that makes the GUIDE angles closer to zero. One can later change the
convention of which way the arrows point using SETUP GUIDE as a
matter of personal preference for your particular installation.

Once you have correctly established the encoder direction senses,
we also recommend you use AUTO ADJUST ON when you perform the FIX
ALT REF step. To set it up, DIAL up MODE SETUP, SETUP ALT REF and
enter a value of +090.000. Then when you perform the FIX ALT REF
STEP, DIAL up ALT REF=+090.000 AUTO ADJUST ON. Perform your two star
alignment as normal. The WARP factor should then be 0.00 (A) where
the (A) indicates the ALT REF point was automatically adjusted. If
you see a non-zero WARP factor when AUTO ADJUST is ON or an (X)
instead of an (A), it means something is amiss, such as a
misidentified star or cable not plugged in. Keep in mind that though
a WARP factor of 0.00 is a prerequisite for good pointing
performance, it does not necessarily guarantee good performance. The
reason is that the AUTO ADJUST mechanism bends over backwards to
correct the ALT REF point so as to produce a WARP factor of zero
wherever possible, even if you have misidentified the alignment
stars.



Hope you have some clear nights ahead! :thumbsup:

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place, Mount Kuring-Gai
NSW. 2080. Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Phone +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[GrahamL]

well I did get out but didn't have much luck getting things to work.. so will have to visit the manual some more to see what I'm missing.. though I didn't spend a lot of time with the guide angles they were completely off ( differant part of the sky off )track to any objects I knew of ... but strangely in another mode the unit was identifing all constellations all over the sky.. again I'm not very well read on all the set up it seems and am likely missing something important ... pity it was a very clear evening for a change.

[gary]

Hi Graham,

Your SETUP ALT STEPS encoder direction sense sign is almost definitely
incorrectly set and possibly your SETUP AZ STEPS sign as well.
Highly recommend you perform the procedure for establishing them as I outlined
in my previous post.

Best regards


Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place, Mount Kuring-Gai
NSW. 2080. Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Phone +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[GrahamL]

thanks for your time gary ...
this could be it
I think I have a "conceptual" problem :P..with this being a point and shoot observer.. I think I pointed my sope around canis minor and swept to the east through az motion then back to the north through the same motion.. the corresponding values moved as they should so I left them be ..
wrong way round eh ?:whistle:.

[gary]

Hi Graham,

Indeed, it sounds as if your current settings are for a configuration where the
OTA is 'flipped' beyond the zenith. This means that you will be able
to correctly identify objects or constellations, but that when you go to
GUIDE to an object, the directions will want to steer you in the other direction.

The check for pushing the OTA to the zenith, performing a FIX ALT REF
of 90 degrees then watching what happens to the Alt reading in
MODE ENCODER when you push the scope down toward the horizon
will betray this. ;)

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place, Mount Kuring-Gai
NSW. 2080. Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Phone +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[GrahamL]

no luck again:(

ALT REF=+90 or ALT REF =90 ?

Both ways it still moves as per directions .. 90 reducing as i go down towards the horizen.
Do I have to have the mount set to fork ?? when I do all this .

az motion seems way off tonight.. no matter what i seem to change it dosn't make a differance ??

any thoughts most welcome

[gary]

Hi Graham,

On your Dob you will set the SETUP MOUNT parameter to ALT/AZ DOBSONIAN.

On your Dob, you will push the scope to the vertical stop and use
ALT REF = +90.

The encoder direction sense signs are the +/- signs in front of the
encoder step counts in SETUP ALT STEPS and SETUP AZ STEPS.
There are what you are trying to determine. You will not be reversing the
sign in SETUP ALT REF. You will be keeping that at +90. What you will
be doing is changing the signs in SETUP ALT STEPS and SETUP AZ STEPS.

When you dial up MODE ENCODER, observe the left-hand displayed
value. Initially, it should be +90. As you move the OTA down in Alt
only toward the horizon, it should decrease, +89, +88, ... +1, +0.
If it increases, i.e. +91, +92, then reverse the SETUP ALT STEPS sign and
repeat the procedure.

Once the Alt encoder sign is established, you are going to perform a two
star alignment and then point the OTA to the intersection of the meridian and
celestial equator. You are then going to DIAL up MODE RA DEC
(not MODE ENCODER). As you sweep across the celestial equator toward
the eastern horizon, RA should increase on the display. if it decreases, then
reverse the SETUP AZ STEPS sign and re-perform the FIX ALT REF step
and two star alignment.

Keep in mind that in the end that there are only four combinations of signs
(+ +, + -, - +, - -). The above procedure will establish them for you, but
in the worse case you can always simply try all four, recoding your results
with pen and paper as you go.

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place, Mount Kuring-Gai
NSW. 2080. Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Phone +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[erick]

AN was a great help tonight, tracking Saturn at around 300-400 mag. I was swapping eyepieces, barlows. After each swap, I just had to carefully guide back to 0,0 and Saturn was always close enough to locate with a gentle search around that location!

[GrahamL]

thanks gary ..I'll revisit again.. though as far as i can tell I'm following those steps
mount is set to dobsonian
set up alt ref reads ALT REF= +090.000 AUTO ADJUST OFF

through set up I scroll up SETUP ALT STEPS ALT= +0010000
same through ..............SETUP AZ STEPS AZ=+0010000

The alt numbers do reduce as per directions

Though I believe they also reduce if I change to ALT REF=90 .

I'll check the pole sweep again .. I'm going from a point alittle east of canopus and sweeping down to the east through altitude motion .?.

[gary]

Hi Graham,

For checking the SETUP AZ STEPS sign, avoid that part of the sky.

Why is that?

From your latitude there in Victoria, stars between approx. Canopus and the
SCP are all circumpolar. What this means is that if you sweep easterly
from stars north of the SCP, RA will increase, but for those between the
SCP and the southern horizon, RA will decrease.

So there is room for uncertainty in those polar regions when performing a check.

Better to sweep along near the Celestial Equator. This time of year, think
Orion's Belt, think Rigel, think Betelgeuse and even Sirius and Procyon
as the starting points. :thumbsup:

The purpose of this check is to ascertain the encoder direction sign
for the Az encoder. You have already determined the sense of the
sign for the Alt encoder using the FIX ALT REF +90, MODE ENCODER
procedure. Though from your latitude you can't move the Dob along the
Celestial Equator without moving it in both Az and Alt *, the primary purpose of this
step is to ensure motion in the Az axis, because that is the axis you are
checking. :thumbsup:

Whereas you use MODE ENCODER to check the Alt sign you are using
an alignment followed by a check of the left-hand display in MODE RA DEC
to check the Az sign.

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place, Mount Kuring-Gai
NSW. 2080. Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Phone +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

* If you were standing at the geographic South Pole, you could move
the scope in Az only long the celestial equator, which in that case would
be pointing on the horizon. As a side-effect of physically moving your Dob
to the geographic South Pole, it will transform itself into an equatorial mount. :)

[GrahamL]

thanks gary..i'll try from orions belt and move to the south through az motion.. I have a differant computer working now and can "slowly" scroll through the user manual,,the old one was a little awkward ...I did have my alt ref set at =90 (not user defined)for a while as per the manual mentioning somewhere.

ballina isn't in victoria ,,, though through winter theres a lot of vic no plates
up this way .

when The rain stops :)

[gary]

Hi Graham,

Not south through Az motion. East through As motion.



Hadn't clicked you were up in Ballina! Hope the rain stops soon.

Best Regards

Gary

[GrahamL]

:face: Ei captain ..I be headin east now and all seems well :P

Well I have the unit pretty much picking out a few objects from
popular deep sky which the bigger of are in the field of view in my 28 mm pretoria 55 dfov
I could of aligned a little better but its good enough for now .. Its wants to initialize all the time now so I'm thinking the batteries have had enough of me ... part of my earlier problems I think were I jumped over to your..alternative procedure.. without thinking through I still have to change the mount from exact fork align at some stage .. well thats my story anyway :)


thanks gary :)

[gary]

Hi Graham,

Great stuff! :thumbsup:

You will definitely want to be using the SETUP MOUNT, ALT/AZ DOBSONIAN
setting. As one of my prior posts mentions, now begin using MODE SETUP, SETUP
ALT REF=+090.00 and then when you perform the FIX ALT REF, use
ALT REF=+090.00 AUTO ADJUST ON.

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place, Mount Kuring-Gai
NSW. 2080. Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Fax +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[GrahamL]

Well that means my scope is pretty much finished now .. It sure takes a while get everything just the way you like it but well worth the time.
Looking forward to getting to know my way around the argo over time .
thanks Gary for your time and patiance :thumbsup:

[CoombellKid]

It's onwards and upwards from here buddy :thumbsup:. Had a wonderful night out
here last night, the Argo worked flawlessly.

Cheers,CS

[GrahamL]

Yeah mate it was a great night out.. I think I went in about 2.00
bet that comet looks a sight for you guys out casino way .It looked very impressive from home and I get a little skyglow for some reason over that part of the sky .

[gary]

Hi Graham,

Thanks for the post including the pictures.

A really nice looking scope and your installation of the encoders and
your stalk for your unit looks the part :thumbsup:

You are most welcome and we wish you many fabulous nights ahead!

Best Regards

Gary

[GrahamL]

Well that was fun .. really the first night out I have spent the whole evening with the argo switched on 3.30 finish ...It certainly is an assault
on the old grey matter so many objects at your finger tips .. A tour of galaxys around leo just never wanted to end:D

The unit worked flawlessly, all objects mostly centred in my 14 xw
Though some objects from some of the more obscure catalouges just wern't there .. I set the limiting mag to 11 for my back yard which showed up everything pretty clearly , maybe could of went a little deeper but I suspect low surface brightness on some objects would be more of a problem from the burbs .

Is there a way I can say tour planetarys and galaxys excludeing everything else ?

Anyway great observing tool .. best $450 I ever spent :)

[erick]

OK, I think I'm all setup, thanks Gary. Have uploaded a User Catalog containing 99 Messier objects. I've dropped out 11 that were >+50 deg as "no chance". Added a flag to the name of each for "easy", "moderate", "difficult", as per the literature, so I have an explanation if I am having difficulty seeing the object. Now I just need a clear night at camp and for everything to work! :thumbsup:

[gary]

Hi Graham,

Thanks for the post.



Excellent and sounds like you had a fabulous run! :thumbsup:

The ability to go back and forth so as to be able to compare and contrast so many objects
at ease is something I like myself when using the unit.

We were also fortunate to have a cloudless and mild night just north of Sydney
which provided the opportunity to load the orbital elements for Comet Lulin
into the Argo Navis and have a good look at it. We also spent some time
touring the smörgåsbord of galaxies on offer at this time of the year.



Undoubtedly many of these would be surface brightness related.
Whilst in GUIDE mode, if you press the DIAL and read-off the detailed
description, surface brightness (SB) is often reported. The size of the
object, which is usually reported, is also often a good indication. For example,
some of the Local Group Dwarf Galaxies can have sizable integrated magnitudes
but spread over such an area that the SB is very low. Those that are obscured
by the Milky Way can even be more challenging to find.



Not at present. As you see, you can select planetaries or galaxies or
non-stellar but not a union of only planetaries and galaxies. However,
it is a enhancement that might appear in the future.



Fabulous! That's what we love to hear! :thumbsup:

Thanks again for the post!

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place, Mount Kuring-Gai
NSW. 2080. Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Phone +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[gary]

Hi Eric,

Thanks for the post.

Fantastic. We've got our fingers crossed for you for that clear night!
Hope you get as good a night as we did in Sydney last night. :thumbsup:

Look forward to the report.

Best regards

Gary

[erick]

Logged 91 Messier objects observed - see report elsewhere on forum. :)

[erick]

By the way, I'm fairly sure my Argo went off daylight saving last weekend, not that it matters in its operation. Did I spot it correctly? Haven't had time to check since.

[gary]

Hi Eric,

Thanks for the post and congratulations! Sounds like you had a great night.

See my tip on your other thread on how to ensure you get back to the
last object you accessed in a particular catalog. :thumbsup:

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place, Mount Kuring-Gai
NSW. 2080. Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Fax +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[gary]

Hi Eric,

Your Argo Navis would not have changed its timezone off daylight saving
last weekend. That requires intervention on part of the user, specifically
you would need to enter MODE SETUP, SETUP DATE/TIME and change
the TIMEZONE setting.

Internally Argo Navis maintains the date and time in terms of UTC time,
which is similar to GMT. The TIMEZONE setting in SETUP DATE/TIME
is simply a convenience feature that allows you to enter your offset from
UTC and then your own local date and time. Argo Navis will then do
the arithmetic for you and convert that entry to UTC date/time.

The TIMEZONE setting also is used should you want to view the LOCAL
time in MODE TIME.

Since Argo Navis internally uses UTC and since there is no concept of Daylight
Saving for UTC, if your own part of the world observes Daylight Saving and
goes onto it or comes off it, as far as operation of your Argo Navis is
concerned, it matters not. So, for example, if you forget to change the
TIEMZONE for Victoria next weekend from +11:00 back to +10:00, then
internally the Argo Navis UTC time remains exactly the same and calculation
of positions of planets and any time dependent functions remain correct.
At your leisure, you might then go into SETUP DATE/TIME and change the
TIMEZONE and then press EXIT and Argo Navis will then also show the
correct local time in MODE TIME.

So in a nutshell, Argo Navis does not automatically change the time with
Daylight Saving and since it stores internal time in terms of UTC, it has
no need to. Changing the TIMEZONE setting requires user intervention
and is a non-critical operation as far as the computations the unit performs.

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place, Mount Kuring-Gai
NSW. 2080. Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Fax +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[erick]

Just had a chance to check and yes, as is often the case, I didn't know what I was talking about, sorry. As it turned out, I had never changed the time zone over the summer, so when I flicked briefly to MODE TIME a few weeks ago, I saw UTC+10 hr.

I did find tonight that the time setting was some 10 mins ahead of UTC, so I reset the time to within a second or two in MODE SETUP, SETUP DATE/TIME.

[keppar]

Hi
Off the subject,could someone tell me if purchasing a Argo Navis to go on my EQ6 pro would be any help in locating Stars ,Messiers etc. Im terrible at drift aligning and my polar adjustment is so so. So I need something that will take me exactly to objects I wish to photograph will the Argo Navis do this for me after just a 2 star alignment?
Thanks Kepp

[alexch]

Hi All,

I finally got Argo Navis for my 12" inch Dob and enjoy it immensely. The pointing accuracy is great and the user interface is simple and very efficient. When star-hopping I had no idea that I can see so many galaxies from my light polluted backyard.

Being a beginner with about a year of observing history behind, I find use of Astro-Calendar at http://www.calsky.com quite useful but got quickly tired scrolling to a NGC or Messier catlaogue number so I wrote a utility that converts CalSky output into the Argo Navis User Object file. Then I use Agronaut and delete existing User objects (Detele-Purge User menu) and upload the output file (Transfer-Send User File menu). Then simply scroll through User Catalogue.

Gary advised that ArgoNavis FLASH memory is specified for about 100,000 writes so if you use it every day and erase before writing the FLASH memory should last about 136 years.

You need to register an account on CalSky.com (can be done from within ArgoSky) then enter your CalSky Number at the top and click Go! button. It supports the following CalSky objects:
- Binary Stars
- Galaxies
- Open Star Clusters
- Globular Star Clusters
- Nebulae


Screenshot:
http://users.on.net/~che/ArgoSky.png (http://users.on.net/%7Eche/ArgoSky.png)

Sample output file:
http://users.on.net/~che/CalSkyArgoNavis.txt (http://users.on.net/%7Eche/CalSkyArgoNavis.txt)

ArgoSky program (free to use, source code available):
http://users.on.net/~che/ArgoSky.exe (http://users.on.net/%7Eche/ArgoSky.exe)

ArgoSky source code in Python:
http://users.on.net/~che/ArgoSky_Sources.zip (http://users.on.net/%7Eche/ArgoSky_Sources.zip)


Please let me know if you think it can be changed/improved.

Cheers,
Alex.

[gary]

Hi Alex,

Thanks for this contribution which I am sure many users will find very useful.

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place, Mount Kuring-Gai
NSW. 2080. Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Phone +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[gmbfilter]

I Love my Argo
I have bought my second Argo Navis. I've installed it on a recently acquired NGT-18
After heaps of discussions with Gary installation was truly plug and play.
"ALIGN" using the sun (well blob in sky) and its off happily tracking in my shed.
Need some stars!

[gary]

Hi Geoff,

Thanks for the post and it was great to chat with you yesterday.

Thanks for adding an Argo Navis (your second!) to your NGT-18.
Looks fabulous in the shed, so hope some clear skies come your way soon. :thumbsup:

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Wildcard Innovations Pty Ltd

[koputai]

Gary,
Just wondering why the Argo doesn't have a 'Park' function so that scopes that don't
move don't have to be realigned every time the Argo is turned off and on. Surely it
can keep time well enough, and once a scope is parked and friction locks in place,
a 'Park' function could be invoked before turning the unit off. Then when turning
back on, an 'Unpark' could be performed before undoing the friction locks.
Thoughts?

Cheers,
Jason.
Who loves his AN, but would like to be able to park it!

[gary]

Hi Jason,

Thanks for the post which is appreciated.

We have had some requests for a park mode from some other users with
equatorial mounts in domes and so it is definitely already on the list of possible
future enhancements. :thumbsup:

Best regards

Gary Kopff
Wildcard Innovations Pty Ltd

[figgylion]

Just wanted to add my thoughts on the AN.
After being a bit worried about my handyman skills I found that the installation was a piece of cake and was done in no time at all.
Unfortunately, due to work and weather I've only had a couple of chances to actually use the AN, but when I did I found it very user friendly, I created a short list of objects to search for to use as a test run on my first night and had them all ticked off real quick, so for a relative novice like me, it's all very helpful (though I still took some time just looking for and identifying constellations with my own eyes, as that is a new found skill I really don't want to lose)
I also have to comment on the fantastic after sales service from Gary. On installation of my AN I had a small problem, I emailed Gary at about 9.30pm on (I think) a Thursday night. I received a reply from him within minutes(I already knew that he was away from this office at this time so I was not expecting a reply for a few days) My problem was quickly resolved and I was up and running quickly due to Gary's help.
A great product and just as important IMO, great customer service

Cheers
Steve

[gary]

Hi Steve,

Fantastic to hear you are up and going and welcome to the extended family
of Argo Navis owners!

Thank you very much for your kind comments which are greatly appreciated.

Best regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place, Mount Kuring-Gai
NSW. 2080. Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Fax +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[Sentinel]

Today is the 2 Year Anniversary of me buying my Argo Navis.

I was out last with the telescope night again last night and was just amazed again how well it pointed all night. I always do at least a small TPAS run of 6 to 8 stars and I am just extremely happy with the whole Argo Navis experience.

With a family and an ongoing struggle with health, the Argo Navis just allows me to see more in a shorter amount of time, which just suits me great.

Probably about time to change the small backup battery to a new one.

Thanks Gary and Argo Navis for what it arguably the best accessory you could ever buy for a telescope.

[gary]

Hi Paul,

Happy Anniversary! :)

Thanks for the post and firstly sorry to hear that your health continues to
be an ongoing issue. We wish you well.

However, great to hear that Argo Navis helps makes your precious observing time
all the more productive. :thumbsup:

The job of the internal lithium coin is is to maintain the time of day clock in
the absence of any other power source. Setup parameters are held in non-volatile
RAM that does not use the lithium coin cell and can maintain its contents in the
absence of power for a century or more.

When the unit powers on, it checks whether the time of day clock has reset
which indicates a power failure, possibly due to the lithium coin cell becoming
depleted. It will then indicate this on the display for a couple of seconds.
Normally the coin cell is good for seven years or more, so no need to replace
it for some time yet! :thumbsup:

Thanks again for the nice post which is really appreciated and we wish you and your
family all the best.

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place, Mount Kuring-Gai
NSW. 2080. Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Fax +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[gb_astro]

Just noticed that the links given in version 10 of the Argo user manual for updating Comet and Asteroid elements give a 404 error.

http://www.cfa.harvard.edu/iau/ephemerides/comets/softwarecomets.html
http://www.cfa.harvard.edu/iau/ephemerides/softwareels.html

???

This seems to be the correct link for the comets:
http://www.cfa.harvard.edu/iau/Ephemerides/Comets/Soft06Cmt.txt

gb.

[gary]

Thanks Geoff,

Last night's earthquake across the Tasman was a reminder that even the world
beneath our feet is shifting over time. The virtual world of the Internet seems
to be little different, with entire web sites shifting like the motion of tectonic plates. :lol:

Thanks for the heads-up which is really appreciated and we will bring out a
edition of the Manual with revised links in the coming weeks. :thumbsup:

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place, Mount Kuring-Gai
NSW. 2080. Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Fax +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[JimmyH155]

I bought my AN about 3 years ago and put it on my 12"LB. Being an old fuddy duddy (even older than Baby Boomers) and brought up as a child when even a slide rule was high tech, I have an innate "fear" of all things electronic - I cant even change channels on the tele:)
Anyway, the AN hasn't had much use.... until last Saturday, I decided this is ridiculous.... READ THE INSTRUCTIONS JIMMY. So I did, and there it all was - absolutely magic. The AN even pointed me to a blue planetry nebula, which I had never seen.
What I like best, is when after 30 mins, I have to go in and make the supper, and then emerge an hour later, all I have to do is turn the scope the number of clicks that AN says, and there sure enough is the last thing I was looking at - AN has remembered that the sky turns.:D
Great stuff, Gary. Hey, I am going to learn how to turn on the tele now!!:thumbsup:

[erick]

The magic of mathematics and electronics! :thumbsup:

[gary]

Hi Jimmy,

Fabulous! These are the types of stories we love to hear!!! :thumbsup:

Best regards

Gary Kopff
Wildcard Innovations Pty Ltd.

P.S.

My advice would be to not worry about the television and keep observing! :lol:

[mbaddah]

I think all this praised has inspired me to go out and buy an AN this week!

There goes another dent in the bank account :(

[peterbat]

Here are a few photos of the mount I've adapted for an Argo Navis on a Lightbridge 16.
While looking around for something to hold the unit I remembered that I had a spare articulated reading/work light that might do the job. The light was on a ball joint that can be tightened to hold it at a particular angle, and moved up or down and in and out as needed. I had to drill out the rivets holding the light to the ball joint, and then flatten the plate at the end of the joint so that it would sit flat on the piece of ply that I mounted the AN cradle on.
A piece of aluminium tubing was screwed onto the lightbridge mount. This is where the swivel at the bottom end of the articulated arm sits. I was able to bend a piece of the arm down so that it would stop the whole arm moving into the path of the telescope tube.
The arm is tensioned with springs, and this, combined with tightening up the bolts holding it all together has resulted in a flexible mount that stays where you put it. I can adjust the angle of the AN to suit, pull the unit closer to me, or push it away as needed.
You can pick these sorts of lights up in Bunnings, or in my case an industrial sewing machine shop about 20 years ago :)

Peter

[erick]

Inventive :thumbsup:

[stephenb]

Great idea, Peter.

(..thinking about how I could patent an articulated reading lamp into an AN holder and corner the market. :whistle:)

I too am starting to think about an AN for my future Dobs.

[gary]

Hi Peter,

Great stuff! I like it it. :thumbsup:

Thanks for posting the pictures as I am sure it will inspire other users
as to another approach for mounting the unit.

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Wildcard Innovations Pty Lyd

[sheeny]

I've finally got my AN working properly:thumbsup:.

I bought Houghy's 16" lightbridge a couple of weeks ago, complete with AN. He told me he'd never used the AN but he'd bought it second hand. I set the scope up as soon as I got home and had a look around but didn't the get the AN going as I didn't have the manual downloaded at that stage.

Last night was clear and I invited a mate around for a look with the aim of getting the AN going. Well we didn't have much success... We couldn't get sensible results, so today I sat down with the manual and read it again in more detail and made some abridged notes of what I'd have to check... it turns out I made the mistake of assuming that someone had set the AN up correctly before:doh:... not so.:whistle:

I went through the initial set up routine and found the azimuth encoder direction was wrong (as was the guide arrow direction). Once I fixed that, it was away... just brilliant!:thumbsup::)

What a great bit of gear! It impressed me the first time I saw it on Hector at the first IISAC, but it impresses me even more now that I've got it sorted and realise how easy it is to set up:thumbsup:.

Al.

[gary]

Hi Al,

Thanks for the post and great o hear you are up and going! :thumbsup:

Welcome to the extended family of Argo Navis owners.

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place, Mount Kuring-Gai
NSW. 2080. Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Phone +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[garrillaga]

Hello

Last week I made the order of the Argo Navis for my Lightbridge 12'' Deluxe and I'm very excited after having seen the good
impressions generated by the product. Here in Spain do not know anyone who has.

I wonder if I can use Argo Navis with the equatorial platform builted, or tracking is good enough without it.

thanks

[sheeny]

Congratulations, Garrillaga, you will love it!:thumbsup:

Let us know how you get on when it arrives!

Al.

[erick]

The Argo has a mode for use with equatorial tables - if you download the manual from the wildcard website, you can read up on it.

[gary]

Hi G,

Thanks for recently ordering an Argo Navis.

Greetings to you there in Spain and we have quite a few customers there.

Argo Navis can operate with a telescope whilst it is on an equatorial platform.

The table needs to be equatorial aligned. Argo Navis does no control the
table but works independently of it.

Argo Navis has a menu called SETUP MOUNT and you will set this to
EQ TABLE EXACT. There is then a setup menu called SETUP EQ TABLE and
another called MODE EQ TABLE. These menus are documented in the Argo Navis
User's Manual on pp 54-56 and pp 101-102.

The User Manual can be downloaded from here -
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au/documentation.html

Argo Navis has a dedicated equatorial table timer. You align you Argo Navis
as normal and then when you start the table you start the equatorial table timer.
When the table reaches the end of its travel, at your leisure, stop and reset the timer.
When you start the table again, start the timer. There is no need to re-align.

Argo Navis even has an audible alarm you can set to warn you that the table
has reached the end of its travel.

Once again, thanks for the post.

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place, Mount Kuring-Gai
NSW. 2080. Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Fax +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[garrillaga]

This morning I printed the manual and I was surprised how well written and the number of functions provided by Argo Navis. The equatorial platform control is amazing. I know many people with dobson telescopes, and I'm sure more than one purchase Argo Navis when I show it. It is a major expense, but I'm sure it will be one of the best purchases I've ever done.

Thank you very much for your kindness. I will put a picture of my Dobson with the Argo Navis mounted!:thumbsup:

[garrillaga]

Hello

I have already purchase the LB 16 kit of ServoCat. I want to know if is fully compatible with the encoders of LB 12 kit of Argo Navis.

Thanks

[Omaroo]

Yet another ArgoNavis newbie here as of today. :hi:

I've just bought John Glossops (JohnG) unit and G-11 encoder kit from him, as he hasn't used it since moving to his Tak NJP. Better than sitting in a box, he offered to me whilst we were imaging off the tennis courts down at BSG, so I didn't hesitate to say yes! :)

I've just installed the encoders - what a pleasure. Very nicely made by Losmandy - encoder, case, gearing (& delrin cover) and bearings. A breeze to install on both axes.

I've fired it up and have set the encoder steps. Now I guess I wait until a clear night to drag it all outside and do the do!

Great to have Gary here as a reference. From what I've heard he's bees knees in terms of support. Makes me feel good about going down the ArgoNavis push-to path rather than Gemini.

[gary]

Hi G,

Thanks for the post.

The encoder installation on the LB scopes with a ServoCAT fitted is slightly
different to when one simply uses the LB with the encoders only.

I have also received your direct email and have responded to that with
additional information.

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place, Mount Kuring-Gai
NSW. 2080. Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Phone +61-2-9457-9593
wildcard@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[gary]

Hi Chris,

Thanks for the post and welcome to the extended family of Argo Navis owners
and it is great to hear you picked up a free-loved unit and encoder kit from John.

It is always a pity how quickly time seems to go at a star party. On the Friday
night I observed from the main observing field and though the tennis courts
were close to my hut, I didn't get time to drop by and say hello to
everyone there. There were certainly quite a few folk I wish I had had
time to meet and catch up with.

Enjoy the system and don't forget there is also an Argo Navis User's Group hosted
at Yahoo at http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/argo_navis_dtc/ so feel free
to join if you have not done so already.

One thing that works nicely on the Losmandy mounts is an advanced feature
called the Telescope Pointing Analysis System (TPAS) which is in-built in the
Argo Navis and is controlled via the SETUP MNT ERROR menus. Over time,
once you have a few more observing sessions of experience with the unit,
a TPAS run is worth considering. It can significantly improve the whole-sky
pointing performance of the mount which is something some users who demand
higher pointing performance can benefit from.

Thanks again for the post.

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place, Mount Kuring-Gai
NSW. 2080. Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Fax +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[Omaroo]

Thanks Gary - and thank you again for the TPAS advice. I can't wait to give the whole thing a good run and learn the full feature set. Something tells me that that is going to be quite a task! LOL! The ArgoNavis is very logically laid out, and coming from an industrial/human interface design background I can fully appreciate the way you've let this unit evolve.

I've hard-mounted the handset holder on my G-11's utility rack, along with the laptop (which runs PHD guiding, Voyager planetarium and now Argonaut) and my home-made field clock and timing system. Anyone mention the bridge of the Enterprise? :lol:

My main mission is to start imaging in earnest - and time taken in finding objects is a waste of that time in this endeavour. Another greaat thing about the ArgoNavis is that it's going to be able to point me to objects I can't visually see near a full moon in a light-polluted sky for H-a imaging. Brill! :thumbsup:

Time to go and join the user group.... !!

[seanliddelow]

How much would an argo navis cost if it is used with a Skywatcher 305mm Dobsonian?

[erick]

Sean, Gary Kopff is the supplier. He has some posts in this thread. His company's website address is given. Have a look there for new - all the required bits. Sometimes one comes up secondhand in the classifieds and is pounced on! Eric

[gary]

Hi Sean,

Thanks for the post.

You can find online pricing at our web site at -
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au/purchase.html

There you will find a Java pricing and ordering form.
Select the Region pulldown and select Australia or Sydney as appropriate
to compute shipping and add GST.
Place a 1 in the Qty box next to Argo Navis Digital Telescope Computer.
Use the Special: Encoders & Cable, Hardware pulldown and select
Synta Sky-Watcher Dobsonian and enter a 1 in its corresponding Qty box.
You can see the individual prices for products and the total price.

You can find some more information on the Sky-Watcher installation kit here -
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au/kits/pn-dob-sw-spec_describe.html
including links to the installation instructions.

Please don't hesitate to drop me an email at sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
or telephone us at 02 9457 9049 if you should have any questions and we would
only be too happy to help.

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place, Mount Kuring-Gai
NSW. 2080. Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Phone +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[JethroB76]

Mr Postman delivered a nice package for me today, just in time for the birthday next week!:thumbsup:

[gary]

Hi Jeff,

Great to hear it has arrived and welcome to the extended family of Argo Navis owners.

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place
Mount Kuring-Gai NSW 2080
Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Fax +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[seanliddelow]

I have an Idea. I might use a wireless webcam to put on each eyepiece and use the argo navis to control the telescope (That is outside) when I am in side. What is the range of the remote? I will then get the wireless webcam to send video feed to a laptop in doors. That laptop will be connected to a projector or tv so I can view the telescope in a home theatre room with popcorn;). I will have this project up and running by at least this time next year. Can you set the argo navis to go to a series of objects?

Sean

[JethroB76]

Would someone like to run through the procedure required to load a comet orbital element into the AN - particularly the format of the data required - is there a source of this info that doesn't require manipulation prior to loading?
I assume somewhere on this website is the info...
http://www.cfa.harvard.edu/iau/Ephemerides/Comets/

[gary]

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for the post.

The IAU Minor Planet Center (MPC) is the definitive organization for defining
and publishing comet orbital elements. They publish the orbital elements in formats
for a variety of third party planetarium programs and Argo Navis uses the same
format as the program TheSky by Software Bisque.

You can download comet and asteroid orbital elements from here -
http://www.cfa.harvard.edu/iau/Ephemerides/Soft06.html

Argo Navis can accommodate up to fifty asteroid orbital elements
and up to 10 comet orbital elements at a time.

Most of the downloadable lists from the MPC contain dozens of objects.
You should download the lists to an appropriate place on your PC, such
as the Downloads folder if you have one or the Desktop and then use
a plain text editor such as Notepad to edit them down to only the entries
you are after. Each comet takes one line in the file, so editing them
by either copying and pasting the appropriate lines to a new file or
by deleting lines from the original file you should find pretty straight forward.

Then pp 152-165 of the Argo Navis User's Manual shows you how to install
the Argonaut utility on your PC and how to download the files to your Argo Navis.
Argonaut comes on your Argo Navis CDROM or you can download it from the
the Wildcard Innovations web site.

The Manual pages also include screen shots so you should be able to
follow step by step. If you need assistance, please don't hesitate to email us
at sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au or give us a phone call.

Enjoy and good hunting! :thumbsup:

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place
Mount Kuring-Gai NSW 2080
Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Fax +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[gary]

Hi Sean,

Thanks for the post.

Keep in mind that on its own, Argo Navis does not directly drive stepper or servo
motors. Instead, you fit a pair of optical encoders on each axis and manually
push the scope. Some people refer to this as PUSHTO.

Having said that, Argo Navis can interface to a couple of third party servo
motor controllers including the ServoCAT and Sitech controllers. Argo Navis
then performs all the object offset and tracking rate calculations on behalf
of the servo motor controllers and then provides for full slew (GOTO) and track.

Some customers then use wireless interfaces to the servo controllers and
many of the planetarium programs (e.g. TheSky and ASCOM compliant
packages) support the ability to perform a remote slew and track by clicking
on an object on the PC screen in exactly the way you describe.

Some customers use wireless solutions such as the WirelessRS232 unit that
StellarCAT, who manufacture the ServoCAT, sell. This enables them to control
the scope up to hundreds of feet away.

Argo Navis is popular on just about all types of scopes from the smallest
(even a pair of bincoulars on a binocular mount) to some of the largest
(e.g. 48" 'monster' Dobs). However, the servo motor controllers solutions have
price points that tend to be optimized for scopes in the 14" to 48"+ class.

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place
Mount Kuring-Gai NSW 2080
Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Fax +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[JethroB76]

Thanks Gary.
So data in the format provided at that address requires no changes? Great:thumbsup:

[gary]

Hi Jeff,

That is correct. Rather than decide to introduce "yet another format" we made
the decision some time back to use an existing format. The format used by
TheSky is as good as any and a popular choice, so hence the decision.

As you can appreciate the nice thing about loading the actual orbital elements
is that Argo Navis can compute the position of the object from moment to
moment. It has a multi-tasking OS and there is a background task just
devoted to updating the positions of comets and asteroids. That means whenever
you observe, the positions are always accurate. :thumbsup:

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place, Mount Kuring-Gai
NSW. 2080. Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Fax +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[seanliddelow]

With the pricing form, do I need the communications cable and the USB serial adapter? I know I need the computer unit and the Synta Skywatcher and I am getting the external DC power cable. All this would cost me $915. Am I filling out the pricing form right?

[gary]

Hi Sean,

Thanks for the post. You might like to email me at sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au

The price you indicated will provide you with an Argo Navis with mounting cradle,
a pair of 10,000 step encoders all the encoder mounting hardware specific to
mounting the encoders on your Sky-Watcher, an encoder cable, the optional
external DC power cable for connection to a sealed -lead acid battery or car battery
and secure delivery to anywhere in Australia. In other words, a complete solution
that will enable you to locate and identify objects.

Argo Navis is completely standalone and does not need a PC or laptop to operate.

The serial communications cable and the USB Serial Adapter are options.
Argo Navis comes with a CDROM which includes a software utility we call
Argonaut. It allows you to upgrade your firmware and to download the
orbital elements of asteroids, comets and satellites. It also gives you
the ability to load into FLASH about 1100 of your own user defined objects at
any one time. That's on top of the in-built approx 30,000 objects already in there.
The serial cable will also allow you to connect with your favourite
planetarium program to get a tracking cursor display. If your PC only
has a USB connector, the USB Serial Adapter works in conjunction with
the serial cable.

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place, Mount Kuring-Gai
NSW. 2080. Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Fax +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[seanliddelow]

Thanks:thumbsup: Im really looking forward to getting the next Argo Navis by the end of this year. It doesnt track but it sure beats finding objects manually. Are there star catalouges on the Argo Navis? Like the Bayer and Flamsteed numbers? Does it have all the NGC, IC and Abell catalouge numbers?

Thanks, Sean

[gary]

Hi Sean,

Thanks for wishing to get an Argo Navis by year's end!

Indeed, there is a BRIGHT STAR catalog that includes all the bright stars with
common names (e.g. BETELGEUSE, ACRUX, etc) and those with
Bayer and Flamsteed designations (e.g. ZETA GRUS, DELTA1, GRUS, LEO 10,
etc, etc.) The detailed description of the stars will provide a magnitude and
even tell you the spectral classification. There is also in-built catalogs of double
(e.g. DUNLOP 55) and variable stars (e.g. FZ VIRGO). For the doubles
you will typically find the magnitude of both components along with their
separation and position angles and again luminosity classes.

All the visible NGC and IC objects are there along with descriptions including
object types, magnitudes, surface brightnesses, major and minor dimensions and even
Hubble Morphologies. There are numerous other catalogs including those containing
Galaxy Clusters (e.g. ABELL 1016, HICKSON 52, SHAKHBAZIAN 3),
planetary nebulae, open clusters, globular clusters, bright nebulae and
even dark nebulae (e.g. BARNARD 62). By way of example, the galaxy
clusters catalog will tell you the number of members and the red shift.

There are enough objects to spend several lifetimes of observing. :thumbsup:

At the recent IceInSpace AstroCamp I assisted in operating the sky tours
and Argo Navis units helped deliver a large number of objects on demand
to constant queues of people. We looked at everything from the sublime to
the challenging, from Neptune, Jupiter and Uranus to Messier, NGC and IC objects,
to obscure but beautiful Hickson galaxy clusters.

Thanks again and we look forward to welcoming you to the extended family of
Argo Navis owners.

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place, Mount Kuring-Gai
NSW. 2080. Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Fax +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[qld]

hello gary, is your site down?

[gary]

Hi Sean,

It had been inaccessible due to an issue related to a Telstra broadband outage that occurred yesterday.

As at 4-Nov-2009 at 12:15 AEDT, the issue has been resolved and the web site is accessible again.
We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused.

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place, Mount Kuring-Gai
NSW. 2080. Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Fax +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[icytailmark]

hi im having trouble with my argo navis alt encoder. I do my 2 star alignment and then i move my telescope according to the arrows and the first lot of figures are moving but the 2nd lot of figures dont change. ive tried adjusting the tightness of the ALT screw in the side of the rocker box.



i have a 12" Skywatcher DOB.

cheers Mark.

[gary]

Email us at sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au and we can run you through
some procedures using the MODE ENCODER diagnostic display along with
swapping cables to try and narrow down the issue for you.

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place, Mount Kuring-Gai
NSW. 2080. Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Phone +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[norm]

Hi Mark,

As per PM, check out this pic. it may help with your encoder issue.
I've got the ALT screw tight, but not excessively.

Cheers, Norm

[icytailmark]

thanks for that norm. I been trying to adjusting the tightness for about half an hour and nothing happened. I have a feeling its either the cable or the encoder itself thats broken. Ive had trouble with it since the day i bought it.

[GrahamL]

Hi gary

Is there any reason M1 dosn't seem to pop up on that messier tour function ?.. I suspect its me somehow. :)

[ericc]

Yep---Im happy and clapping my hands!

Just joined the AN club--I still cant believe just how good this thing is--

I can now easily find stuff(as a newbie I was getting pretty frustrated, trying to find my way around the sky).

But now backyard observing a true joy(and Im actually learning star patterns as I go).

Love it!

Cheers Eric
:D:D:D

[gary]

Hi Eric,

Thanks for the post and great to hear! :thumbsup:

Merry Christmas!

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Wildcard Innovations

[Visionoz]

Hi All

Like those before me who have posted in this particular thread, I am extremely pleased with the endless service and support that Gary provided me from sales enquiry -> to a purchase just before Christmas -> very prompt delivery -> and even during Christmas Day, technical advice via email on my getting the brand new Argo Navis to work in conjuction with my Losmandy G11

All I can say is "Thanks, Gary, you are the One!" :thumbsup: - what would we AN owners do without Gary eh?

Now back to the scope and learning to tweak the AN and better still to learn to use TPAS - :thanx:

Cheers
Bill

[gary]

Hi Bill,

Thanks for your kind words and we appreciate your support. :thumbsup:

All the best for the New year!

Best regards

Gary

[peter andre]

Hi, Gary,
I am about to buy a Takahashi EM-200b mount, which is a Non Goto!
I would like to have it converted into a Goto mount.Sending the mount to Takahashi would cost a fortune!! Could you please advise if your Argo Navis will fit my mount succesfully?
Hope you are still in the air to answer my question.
cheers
Peter Andre

[gary]

Hi Peter,

Thanks for the post and Seasons Greetings.

Firstly, it is important to keep in mind that Argo Navis does not directly interface
to servo or stepper motors. Instead, it interfaces to a pair of optical encoders,
one of which is fitted to each of the two primary axes of the mount. As the
RA or Dec axis rotates, the encoders emit electrical pulses which the
Argo Navis keeps track of. Thus, you use your own muscle power in a PUSHTO
configuration to move the scope. Many prefer PUSHTO over GOTO because
of its fast, reliable and quiet operation.

So if you are after a system that can assist you in locating and identifying
objects in a PUSHTO configuration, then an Argo Navis fills these requirements.

We have an encoder mounting solution available for the EM200 but I would
need to check the difference between the original EM200 and the EM200b
that you mentioned. You can find a scanned image of the installation drawing
for the EM200 on our web site here -
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au/images/enc_em200_1.jpg
If the hubs have similar dimensions and the existing screw holes are at the
same positions with the same threads, then the existing kit will fit. I recommend you
email me at sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au where we can begin a dialog
to determine what the differences, if any, are between the EM200 and EM200b with
respect the relevant dimensions.

From what I understand, the EM200b was mechanically very similar to the EM200
but had a different control panel.

I mentioned earlier that Argo Navis does not directly drive motors. However,
Argo Navis does interface to some third party motor controllers, in particular
the ServoCAT and the Sidereal Technology servo controllers. This then provides
for full slew and track (i.e. GOTO) support. Though these particular motors systems
have been adapted to some equatorial mounts, I am not aware of any users
having ported them to the Takahashi mounts and certainly some substantial
mechanical improvisation would be required.

By comparison, the encoder PUSHTO solution can be installed in less than
20 minutes.

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place
Mount Kuring-Gai NSW 2080
Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Fax +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[peter andre]

Thanks for your quick reply!
I am pretty sure the 200b is same as the 200 model.
Your advise very much appreciated, I now will go ahead buying this mount and fingers crossed the AN will be OK for this mount.
A conversion to a real Goto mount would set me back approx. $2500 including transport to/from Japan.
I will be in contact again early next year (2010)
meanwhile have a very happy new year
cheers
peter schagen
(in brisbane):)

[manny]

I too have joined this illustrious group of AN owners but unfortunately will have to wait till early January before I can assemble and use,then I will be clapping my hands and jumping up and down maybe
throw in a couple of cartwheels.
To Gary thank you for your assistance to my wife Wanda whom by the way praised you excellent customer service and from all the posts I have read about Argo Navis your product ,your willingness to help out people having problems and to take time out and answer posts is second to none so once again thank you and wish you and wildcard continued succsess.
Can't wait till January.:thanx:

All the best

Manny

[norm]

I probably shouldn't highjack this thread, but would like to know from Gary if there are any plans in the future for a 'new' Argo Navis. By this I mean with stuff like LCD screens, Lithium ion batteries, smaller chipsets, touchscreens; have there been any considerations from the Argonavis team to re-design a whole new Argo? Maybe a smaller unit with added features such as a logging capabilties of what one has observed that night, standby?

I appreciate a whole re-design would cost a bucket to r/d and there is the old adage saying 'if it aint broke don't touch...'.

Don't get me wrong, the Argo is a bloody brilliant product and makes me personally proud that its an Australian product to boot. I could definitely see a market for amateurs to upgrade if one was available.

Cheers Norm

PS: Does the AN forum talk about the history of the AN and how and why it came about?

If this is not the appropriate thread I will create new one.

[gary]

Hi Manny,

Seasons Greetings!

Thanks for the post and welcome to the extended family of Argo Navis owners.

Thanks for your kind comments and special thanks to Wanda. She certainly
is a very special lady and she went to extraordinary efforts to securing a unit
and encoder kit for you and she wanted so much for it to be a surprise.
So I hope it was! :thumbsup:

Don't forget, if you have not done so already, please also feel free to join the
Argo Navis User's Group hosted on Yahoo -
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/argo_navis_dtc

When the time comes, should you require any support or assistance,
please don't hesitate to email sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au or
give us a call.

Greetings to you there in Bundaberg!

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place
Mount Kuring-Gai NSW 2080
Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Fax +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[gary]

Hi Norm,

Thanks for the post and Happy New Year!

Firstly I will address your question regarding future developments.

All consumer electronics has a finite market life. However, in designing Argo Navis,
we ensured that its dual CPU architecture would provide plenty of computing
power and we used FLASH memory so its firmware could be upgraded over time.
This has helped ensure it provides lasting value and for example we are
currently working on the next free firmware upgrade.

When it reaches the end of its market life, which is quite a way of yet, rest
assured we will be there with the next generation hardware and software. :thumbsup:

Sounds like you may have missed one of my presentations over the
years where we talk about the "Making of Argo Navis". We have given
presentations to ASNSW including at the SPSP, to attendees at NACAA,
at the Queensland Astrofest and to the Central West Astronomical Society.
I will post some excerpts on this thread here.

Thanks again for your post and we appreciate your support.

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place, Mount Kuring-Gai
NSW. 2080. Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Fax +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[CoombellKid]

No offence Norm,

But Gary, please dont institute the LCD touchscreen idea, I couldn't
imagine that the hardcore AN users of the observing kind would want
that. I find the screen as it is, is non intrusive. You can walk up the
any scope running an AN on an observing field and wouldn't know it was
there unless you looked at it. If they were LCD's you would know every
scope running AN on the field. The other thing is.... in the dark 1 x dial
2 x buttons work very well.

Anyways just my 2 cents worth, and like I said no offence Norm, I did
like some or the rest of your ideas.

Cheers,CS

[Omaroo]

Got to love the Argo - here's mine successfully talking to my iPhone via Voyager/SkyFi:

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=54927

[Liz]

Well, have been trying to install my new Argo Navis over the last couple of days :scared2: ..... has to be the dodgiest installation ever.
Have finally installed both encoders - no drill, so a bit of a mess hammering in, then screwing the screws, then I had them in wrong position, so did it all again!! RRRggghh. Anyway, all on, even tho I have somehow managed to put the altitude one on wrong side of rocker.
Today have been putting in data - home, lat and long, mount etc.
Dont know about the daytime test .... havent got anything outside to focus on - sea ast the front, and bush at the back :shrug:
Not sure if this is necessary, but will give it all a go tonight, fingers crossed.
Been wading through the manual, trying to take in the important bits :rolleyes:,
hopefully I can get out tonight, do my 2 star alignment, and Bingo :D
Probably something else I need to do though :question:

[gary]

Hi Liz,

Thanks for the post.

Though you have it installed now, the Alt encoder can go either side of the rcker
box. There are a couple of menus of interest that appear under MODE SETUP,
one called SETUP ALT STEPS and the other SETUP AZ STEPS. When you enter
those menus they display both the number of encoder steps, which in your case
is 10,000 steps and a + or - sign in front of the those numbers which we call
the encoder direction sense signs. As it turns out, if one wishes to move the
Alt encoder from one side of the rocker to the other, the Alt encoder direction
sense simply needs reversing.

The first 30 or so pages is all you need to get up and going from putting the
batteries in, to performing the one-time setups to aligning the unit all the
way to a tutorial on how to tour galaxies in Fornax.

Those of us surrounded by trees, telegraph poles and other terrestrial obstructions
envy your location with an absence of these. For the time being you might
forgo the Daytime Encoder Test as you suggested and simply try to perform
an alignment and then GUIDE to an object.

If you find after a star alignment that the guide angles make no sense,
for example, they have you wanting to point the scope toward the ground
or 180 degrees in Az from where the target is, then almost certainly one
or more of your encoder direction sense signs needs reversing.

Good luck with the weather. We have been watching what a drenching parts
of Qld have been receiving so I hope clear skies are on the way. :thumbsup:

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place
Mount Kuring-Gai NSW 2080
Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Fax +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[gary]

Hi Chris,

Thanks for the report! Enjoy! :thumbsup:

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place
Mount Kuring-Gai NSW 2080
Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Fax +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[that_guy]

what does argo navis do?? I couldnt be stuffed reading all the posts ;)

[erick]

Here is one sales blurb, Tony:-

http://www.jmitelescopes.com/html_docs/ngc_super_specs.htm

[Liz]

Aaah, thank you Erik for helping out there ... am still trying to get my head around it .... too hot up here to get it up and going yet : (
Sorry Gary ... I will get there, but have had lathers of sweat pouring off me after 5 minutes outside ... still yet to have success .. tho did reach coord for a neb 2 nights ago, but unable to follow thru due to mozzies/humidity and frustration... didnt want to injure the scope in the proces of..... by hurling it across the patio :astron:

[Phoenix]

Great bit of kit the Argo, which drives my SDM - love it. But can someone tell me how I can I simply track the moon as it doesn't seem to be listed in any Argo catalog?

Cheers

[ausastronomer]

Hi Steve,

The scope will still track "reasonably" on the moon. Whilst not accurate enough for photography the Sidereal tracking will keep the moon reasonably near the FOV and you just use the arrow keys on the Servocat handpad to keep it centered. A piece of cake really and no problem to keep it in the FOV for hours with a brief touch on the hand pad every couple of minutes. How often you need to use the handpad to re center will depend on the power you are observing at and the FOV of your eyepiece.

You just center the moon in the FOV and the servocat will do the rest.

Cheers,
John B

[Phoenix]

Many thanks John for the info provided - much appreciated.

Gary Kopff, from Wildcard Inn. has informed me via the Yahoo group that the next general firmware release will include the moon - release date has not yet been announced.

Re: ServoCat tracking should keep the moon in the FOV - Yes, this is my experience. Actually, the reason why I posted the question in the first place was because I was having trouble tracking the moon at high power. I took my scope with me on a field camp last year with a bunch of students. WFOV was not a problem but leaving the students by them selves to look at the moon using a narrow FOV EP was a bit challenging - I needed to constantly nudge the hand-pad between student observations. I couldn't get away (I needed to do other things at the time) as they would loose control of the hand pad. Dare I say, these were Uni students..... actually they were a nice bunch of clever students, but accurate tracking of the moon at high power would be nice.

Cheers
Steve

[garrillaga]

Hi gary! I Have the servo cat system with argo navis. I would like to align the telescope at night 22:00, and then go to sleep until 4:00 am. How can i park the telescope to dont align again? Thanks

[ausastronomer]

Hi,

All you need to do is do your normal alignment at 10:00pm. You can leave the telescope unattended until 4:00am and it will keep its original alignment, provided you do not switch the argo navis unit off. You could switch the Servocat off but you must keep the Argo Navis unit on. If you do this it is a good idea to have a set of fresh AA batteries in the Argo navis so that if your external power source dies the AA batteries will cut in and keep the previous alignment.

A couple of years ago at ISAAC 2007, Gary and I left the Argo switched on on my 18" Obsession after we finished observing in the early hours of the morning, so that we could find Comet Mcnaught in the late afternoon the next day.

If you are going to leave Argo running for this length of time and hope to retain good pointing accuracy it is fairly important to do a good alignment initially and possibly do a TPAS pointing run.

Cheers,
John B

[gary]

Greetings to you there in beautiful España!

Firstly, thanks to John for his follow-up.

When used with the ServoCAT, Argo Navis has its own set of encoders so that
it can maintain position even when the ServoCAT is switched off or even if the
cable releases that engage the motors are disengaged.

By leaving the Argo Navis powered on, it will maintain alignment.

When leaving the scope idle for an extended period time, it is advisable
to at least disengage the cables that engage the motors. This will prevent the
scope from moving as the system tracks.

When the Argo Navis display shows one of the top level menu selections
(e.g. MODE ALIGN, MODE ALIGN STAR, MODE CATALOG, etc.) then you
can be sure that the unit is using the least amount of power. The operating system
puts the CPU into a low power sleep mode when there is no processing to perform.

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place, Mount Kuring-Gai
NSW. 2080. Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Phone +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[Stu Ward]

I may be in the market for one of these.

Can anyone point me in the right direction to buy one ( at the lowest possible cost, i'm a cheapskate i know)

And any info as to reagrding any addons i may need to attach to an 8" Dobsonian

Thanks

Stu

[ericc]

Hi Stu--Gary from Wildcard Innovations will sort you out with the Argo Navis.
I was(am)a newbie and fitted a new AN unit to my dob a couple of months ago after being pretty frustrated trying to find my way around the sky.
Mate,believe all the good things you may read in this forum about the Argo Navis--and Gary!
It is the best thing I could have purchased(after the scope)as I can now find things so easy!
Its not cheap--but now Im at the eyepiece actually viewing 99% of the time!
Excellent product and support.
Good luck with your possible purchase Stu.

Cheers-Eric

[gary]

Hi Stu,

Gary Kopff here from Wildcard Innovations. We design and manufacture the
Argo Navis right here in Sydney.

Thanks for considering an Argo Navis. I have sent you a private message.

Thanks also to Kev and Eric for their follow-ups.

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place
Mount Kuring-Gai NSW 2080
Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Fax +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[trent_julie]

Gary,

Is there any intention of adding the Caldwell objects to the AN Library?
Cheers,

Trent

[gary]

Hi Trent,

As you are probably aware, the Caldwell Catalogue is simply a selection of 109
predominantly NGC objects with a few IC objects and a few other nebulae.
All the objects within the Caldwell Catalogue exist in other catalogs within the
Argo Navis in-built catalogs.

Some time back, Sky Publishing published the Stephen O'Meara book
entitled "The Caldwell Objects". My recollection was that Sky Publishing and/or
Moore claimed copyright on the list and there was some legal posturing going
on when someone else attempted to publish the list or use the name.

Therefore we don't include the objects that appear in that catalog under that
name.

The Argo Navis User's Group has a user contributed catalog which you can
load into your unit that has the same NGC, IC and other objects in it that
also appeared in the Caldwell list.
See http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/argo_navis_dtc/files/User%20Catalogs%20/

For a really nice user catalog for southern hemisphere observing, you might also
like to consider the 600 object list compiled by John Bambury. I refer to it as the
BAM 600. See http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=45678&highlight=bambos
This catalog is available in Argo Navis User Catalog format.

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place, Mount Kuring-Gai
NSW. 2080. Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Phone +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au