Learner Needs Help…ED 80mm or ED 100mm or Equinox series

[Davekyn]

Hi...I need :help:
I am still learning about all this stuff, so please forgive my ignorance. I am starting to feel more at ease with the idea of buying an ED Refractor for Astrophotography and skipping the idea of a bigger aptature on a Newtonian. It sounds like a night mare for a beginner using a reflector.

Basically out of the SKYWATCHER PRO ED SERIES I could afford to get the 100mmX900 which is currently on discount with the aluminum carry case and accessories. (Mount separate) However I was wondering how the focal difference between it & the 80mmX600mm might affect what photos I can & can’t take for Astrophotography.

Or to put it another way…Is the difference between the focal lengths of the Pro ED 80mmX600mm & Pro ED 100mmX900mm that much of a difference. Will I have to track twice as long??? Would the 100mmX900mm be better for more variety of shots, however require me to be more experienced.

And one last thing…I notice there is also another series called “Equinox”, which in the case of Andrews Communication are charging $450-$500 more.

What is the difference between the “Pro ED” series and the “Equinox APO ED” Is the difference worth it, that I should consider giving the Pro ED 100mm a miss and go for the Equinox 80mm regardless of F/ratio because of the quality???

I am just unsure of how to decide between the PRO ED 80mm or ED100mm or the Equinox 80mm…:scared:I do believe though; that one of those three, will be a good learner scope for astrophotography…Don’t ya think?

Any comments would be greatly appreciated
Thank you.
Dave

[AlexN]

For starting out the SW ED80 is great... gives a nice wide field of view that you can fit alot of sky into.. It does however limit your ability to image some objects as they will be fairly small in the field of view.

The longer focal length of the 100mm will be better for some objects, and not as good for others.... it depends on what really takes your imaging fancies. The 100mm will require more accurate guiding to ensure pinpoint stars

FWIW the aperture difference between 80 ~ 100mm makes virtually no difference to photography.

The equinox refractors are a step up over the ED series, using different glass elements, a better focuser among other things... Note that the Equinox 80mm is the same as an Orion EON 80mm, and both are clones of the William Optics ZS80. The Orion is somewhat cheaper than the Equinox from memory, $959 vs $1180 or so for the Equinox. Considering they are the same scope with a different brand name, I know where my money would go :)

What mount do you intend to put one of these on?

[seeker372011]

if you are starting out get the 80mm its really forgiving..get the Orion EON if you can afford it, if not the common or garden ED80 will do

you will get many many hours of enjoyment out of this..if you have a half decent mount-at the very least a CG5, preferably upwords.

you may not win many astro photography comps, but I assure you you can have great fun with this scope-and relatively less headaches.

As for focal length-even with an ED 80 you may soon find yourself imaging with a focal reducer to get a flatter field-unless you are a dead set galaxy fiend (I am assuming you are after DSO not planets) the wide field actually works in your favour, makes the whole process of image capture relatively less painful

The EON and the equinox are better mechanically and look much better (how well do you see in the dark BTW? :) ). Much sexier. More bragging rights. Possibly a better scope even. Eon users I found are very passionate about their scope ..annoy them at your peril.

[Davekyn]

Thankyou…
By the sounds of it, the 80mm Equinox is sounding good. I’ll take all the quality I can get.
Because I will not have much money left I was just going to get one of the sky watcher EQ5 mounts with the option to buy a dual motor kit further down the track when I get a camera.

I am starting from scratch and hope to just enjoy using it. like I did my tasco 60mm as I slowly acquire the rest of the gear.

I’ll just take photos of whatever is best in that field of view and learn how to adapt. I love everything in the night sky so don’t mind if I miss out of some things as there is just so much. I like the sound of this wide field being forgiving.

Pluss I love using Binos because of the wider field of view...scanning the sky will be much easier with a unit like this I guess...I was never any good at it with my Tasco 60mm

There is one concern I have, that I just read in a review about the Sky-Watcher EQUINOX 80mm APO
http://www.spacegazer.com/equinox-80mm-apo-g.asp (http://www.spacegazer.com/equinox-80mm-apo-g.asp)
Apparently there is no fitting to mount a finder scope???

[dugnsuz]

The Orion EON model (pic from Bintel site) has a finder bracket and it's cheaper than the SW equivalent...

Doug:thumbsup:

[Davekyn]

Thanks Dugsuz

Well that Orion EON 80mm looks impressive to say the least. From what I can gather the debate has been over the FL with some indication, that the EON is more prone to CA.

I guess if I am going to go wide angle, then why not go the faster scope…It can only be more forgiving for an absolute beginner in that regard. As to the amount of difference in CA, I’m yet to read any negatives reviews on the Orion in this respect…then again some could say they is not many to be found.

Could anyone recommend a good finder for a newbie like me in regards to the Orion? I could not afford the illuminated ones just yet.

[AlexN]

Any Synta made finder scope bracket will fit the orion EON.. I have one and have not noticed any CA that would be of real concern. and for its price, Its damn good...

At Andrews Optical a GSO 8x50 finder scope is around $50 if I recall correctly..

Faster scope - shorter exposure times - easier to learn with.

[AlexN]

Oh, and As I mentioned in an earlier post. From what I can gather the Equinox 80 and the EON 80 are identical.. Both are made by Synta... I would imagine they come off the same production line...

The orion being cheaper is the best option in that case.

[Davekyn]

Although I have been told, there is really no benefit in having the larger aptature of the 100ED over the 80ED, with regards to imaging; I read somewhere that the “larger aperture gives higher resolution images of targets” Although this comment was made in a thread concerning the 80ED Vs 100ED I guess the effect would be minimal at these sized apps?
The thing is…regardless of that... (I’m just curious was all), I am starting to tend for the regualr Pro 100ED over the more expensive SW Equinox or Orion EON upgraded scopes, as It will be some time before I have all the necessary gear for imaging, I am now thinking that the longer FL will allow me to get better visuals than that I would get off the 80ED…As much as I would like to do wide field images, I would also like to take some planetary & moon shots not to mention visuals on those too.
Could a Focus reducer & field flattener, indeed help the 100ED if I were to get the right mount/gearing and eventually learn to become good at longer tracking techniques?
I do apologize if I make you repeat yourself…I am still new to all this and as more sinks in & I understand a little more, I have begun to think perhaps I may in fact be able to get a little more out of the 100ED.
I’d like to think there was one galaxy in the southern hemisphere that I could attempt to image with the longer FL of the 100ED, but given that I don’t really know that much, that in fact, the 100ED may be better suited to me until I know what it is that I want to focus on.
Sorry…I guess I am not making sense now…I admit that I am getting confused…I will try to sum it up once more. Given that I want to look at DSO & planetary objects equally with the strong urge to play around with imaging…would I in fact be better off selecting the 100ED and use a focal reducer and other aids to help with regards to wider fields…knowing that I am going to have to spend more time doing it?
“I guess I want an all rounder with imaging ability…bit that seems to be a hard task I take it?:)”
THANKS
Dave

[AlexN]

For visual work, the extra focal length and aperture of the 100 wont make a great deal of difference... A lot of users on these forums have taken images of the moon through ED80. and some are exceptionally good.

There is actually one galaxy that you would be able to image with the 80, but not in its entirety with the 100mm.. M31 - The andromeda galaxy. a 900mm focal length is in fact too long to fit M31 into the field of view, where as the 80mm will squeeze it all in with the camera in the correct orientation.

You'll find planetary imaging with a refractor will provide less pleasing results than with a similarly priced newtonian reflector. Planetary imaging success hinges on a few things, some you can control, some you can not... The ones you can are focal length, and Aperture. I have an 8" with a 5x powermate, giving 200mm of aperture, and a 6000mm focal length. I am upgrading because both aperture and focal length are somewhat insufficient.... where as I use a 90mm refractor with a 600mm focal length for deep sky imaging...

Take a look through the imaging forums... The shorter your focal length, the easier it will be to start imaging... 900mm focal lengths unguided will require a very accurate polar alignment to take images. ~500-600 will be more tolerant to slight inaccuracies.

The larger aperture wont give you more resolution as such.. it will give you bigger image scale through its longer focal length, but as previously mentioned, that comes at the cost of it being more susceptible to polar alignment inaccuracy based errors...

As far as an "all rounder scope.." yes.. its difficult...

For visual observing, you want 3 things.. Aperture, Aperture and a bit of Aperture! 12" Dobsonian reflectors are very popular among observers due to their relative low cost, and massive light gathering capability.

Planetary imaging requires decent aperture with best images coming out of 8" and up scopes... The best images I've personally seen coming from a 14".. and also a long focal length. Its not uncommon to see people planetary imaging with focal lengths of above 11,000mm, and up to 15,000mm depending on the aperture and seeing conditions...

Deep sky imaging.. well... there tends to be no set rules... scopes range from 80mm refractors through to 12" reflectors... If anything seems to be the same throughout, Fast focal ratio's are seen as better.... the faster the scope, the shorter the exposure times need to be.. Ie. an F/5 scope will require half the exposure time of an F/10 scope on the same object. (all things being equal that is)

Hopefully people with more knowledge on the matter find their way in here to fill in anything that I've missed....

Hope I've helped...

[Davekyn]

Thank you for taking the time to reply,
I pretty much need to soak up what I can & I’m hearing ya. I’ve been so tempted on Aptature, but with image in mind, that I even think about the Achromatic Refractor such as the SW 150X750 OTA with air-spaced 4-layer multi-coated doublet lens. Would I be right to assume that this would only be any good for visual and not really for imaging?[/font]

I have to agree, that out of actual images between the ED80 & ED100 most I have seen online are indeed of the ED80. Thank you for allowing me to voice my concerns as I really need to get them all out and hear what you guys have to say.

Because it is becoming more obvious to me, that I am not going to get a scope to do it all, I am simply going to have to decide on what I want…I really with all my heart want to Image. I will endeavor to be patient in order to make the right decision.

I wont have a $1000.00 for quite some time, and if I get this Awsome EON 80, I figure I can always get "8" to "10" Dob further down the track.

You are all, a GREAT help!!!!:)

[dugnsuz]

Hi Dave,
I struggled with this problem for years, buying bigger and bigger visual scopes and not really feeling fulfilled in the hobby until the prices of consumer DSLRs were low enough to afford, allowing me to get into imaging which is the path I had wanted to be on since taking up astronomy almost 13 years previously!!!!

I haven't ever regreted the swap from visual to photography (only its effect on my finances) - the rewards are well worth the efforts.

You don't have to start off with a scope either - I started with a DSLR and 50mm lens on a motorised EQ3 mount. I have built from there, but still only use camera lenses - I hope to get a high quality 80mm refractor in the near future.

If you are leaning towards imaging - I say go for it!
All the best
Doug:thumbsup::thumbsup:

[TrevorW]

PS: I have a EQ5 Mount advertised at a really reasonable price in the trading post thread if you are interested.

:D:D

[dugnsuz]

pps...so have I :D:D:D:D:D

[davewaldo]

I'll just mention this as no-one else seems to have done... :)

You seem to be saving a lot of money to purchase the scope and the mount seems to be a secondary concern to you.

I would be seriously considering a HEQ5 mount rather than the CG5 or EQ5.

Its not much more expensive but it gives you goto and guiding straight out of the box (not to mention better tracking and more weight capacity). If it were a choice of spending more on the mount or scope I would choose the mount everytime. That is if your serious about imaging.

Rather than spend the extra to get an EON 80, perhaps it would be better to stick with the standard ED80 and spend that money to get a HEQ5. I think you would achieve better images much sooner with a heq5 rather than struggling with a eq5.

Would others agree?

Cheers,
David.

[AlexN]

David, That is a very fair call..

From what I've heard from people I respect the opinion of... for astrophotography - the money should be spent in this order

Mount - Optics - Mount - Camera - Mount - Mount...

[dugnsuz]

Absolutely...If I knew then what I know now (blah blah), I would have started by "over-mounting". That way whatever scope/lens you mount (within reason) is never going to cause you any issues.

Doug:thumbsup:

[TrevorW]

Must also agree in hindsight but alas sometimes the old wallet doesn't allow us that luxury

Buy the best you can for what you can afford look at the mount over scope but don't sacrifice one for the sake of the other. IMO

:D