NSW-based IceInSpace Star Party?

[iceman]

Hi guys.

Just throwing some ideas around, wanting to start getting some feedback on having a NSW-based (sydney/central coast area) IceInSpace star party..

We tried for one in May, and were expecting around 30 people, but alas the weather got the best of us.

We have monthly meets at Kulnura which are excellent and getting more of a turnout each month, but i'm hoping to have a 'big' one, where people from further afield will make more of an effort to turn up.

Either up at Kulnura again (the fields are great, plenty of room, power, toilets etc) and it's dark, or have one closer to Sydney (west Sydney? Blue mountains?) so more sydney-siders make it? Are the skies as dark? Will the amenities be there? I dunno I haven't been there.

So i'm after your thoughts..

Where?

Date? We have the starcamp in Ballarat at end October/early November, so before that or after that?

Start throwing some ideas around.. would you come?

[wavelandscott]

I would most likely be interested depending on the where and when...

It is not often that my wife will let me get away without the kids on the weekends as I trravel a fair amount during the week...so about an hour from the city (so I can commute) gets it for me unless there is space and facilities for "the family"...

[ausastronomer]

I would attend at Kulnurra or a Central Coast/Hunter Region Location. Probably not keen to head towards the lights of Sydney.

CS-John B

[xstream]

We would consider attending depending on time and location.

[ving]

/me puts hand up :)
I'd just have to spend a bit of time collimating when i arrive :P
the central coast knoked my collimation out heaps and i didnt bother re-doing it...
call me lazy.

some time in mid spring would be great, but just a one nighter as cheryl doesnt allow me out much ;)

[iceman]

Need some ideas of suitable dates..

If we try to have it before the StarCamp, we've got September new moon (3 weeks away), or October new moon (7 weeks away).

If we have it after the StarCamp, then it'd be early December.

Maybe daylight savings plays a part in working out the date? If we want it before DST, then September or October.. DST isn't too bad, gives you more light to setup your gear in you can't get there till late.

Also should we do just a 1-nighter, or try and plan for 2 nights? If 2 nights, would need camping facilities, motels near by? etc.

Just throw some ideas around..

[iceman]

Oh and of course having it at Kulnura will depend on the owners of the property giving the go-ahead. If we have it there, it would most likely just be a 1-nighter because it's a business there and they would have players for Paintball the next day.

[Greg Bryant]

Mike,

A Central Coast Star Party sounds great. Its proximity to the population bases of Sydney, Newcastle, and the Central Coast make it very appealing (proximity to the Hunter Valley for day trips is also nice...).

Timing: these events need plenty of advance publicity if you want to attract attendees beyond the IceInSpace community. For example, if you were planning to hold one in early October over the Long Weekend this year, we'd certainly advertise it in the October issue of Australian Sky & Telescope (we're at the printers in under a fortnight), but it doesn't come out until early September, so the broad amateur community would only get a few weeks notice.

Should it be held at the time another major star party is on? Ideally not - but then, even if it was one month earlier/later, how many people are going to undertake Star Party trips twice in 4 weeks? (OK...some of you might!)

Such an event could start off as a two-nighter (Friday and Saturday) and grow as its popularity (and number of volunteers) increases.

I note that you're holding monthly observing nights at Kulnura (and I'll get there one month). That's very much how the South Pacific Star Party began. The ASNSW had held monthly observing weekends there since 1987. In 1991, a group of us decided to launch the South Pacific Star Party. We had a 2 year planning period because of the circumstances in which the Star Party came about, but you really only need about 1/10th of that time to kick off a preliminary event.

[ving]

I wonder if I could line up Belanglo... you wont get darker. I havent been there personally but I might enquire (if its not too far for ppl to travel) they have some emenities but what i am not sure. :)

october NM would suit me best. I should probably turn up to the next MAS meet huh!

[ving]

the player of the next day could be us! ;)

[Greg Bryant]

Mike,

How big is your backyard? The Wyoming Star Party has a nice ring to it (and might attract a few international attendees who are hopelessly lost!). :)

[ballaratdragons]

Is during the Christmas break too far away for you. More people might have the time to travel long distance then. Just an idea.

I would love to make it up to the Central Coast area around the Chrissy holidays but not for a one nighter.

[cahullian]

we could have a Dob V Buzz Click skirmish. With the winners getting the pick of the sites.

[xrekcor]

If it is planned over a longer period, perhaps some of us from up north could make the trip too. I think I could be interested. But it would have to be 3-4 days +

Cristmas holidays sounds good to me.

[seeker372011]

well wherever we choose to hold it, I'll try to be there

[Rodstar]

If we are going to get people from further afield than the monthly crowd, I think we would be well advised:

1. to have it over at least 2 nights running
2. to organise something gastronomical as well as astronomical for one or both nights, perhaps catered by a catering company so we don't have to worry about organsiation or cooking, just collecting fee for meal.
3. to give everyone at least a couple of months notice.

It is a bit of a way off, but one option would be the Australia Day long weekend in January 2006. The 26th is a Thursday - I'm not sure what the public holiday situation is, but if Friday is a working day, half the working population is bound to have a self-decared holiday that day, anyway. I think this is a better option than December because there is usually lots happening in December socially - work Xmas parties, school functions (for those of us with children), etc. Then again, there is the heat factor (and bush fires, blow flies and thermal currents) in mid summer, which could make things very uncomfortable if we wait until that time of year.

For it to be successful, some people will need to put their hands up to do some organising, and poor old Mike, who has enough on his hands keeping 403+ members from mutiny, shouldn't be lumbered with it. Let's not get too formal about it, though, cos we all want to have fun, and not get bogged down in too much detail.

If we use the Kulnura site, I reckon that we should collect a donation at least to be given to the site owner in gratitude for letting us use the grounds. (Incidentally, I have been wondering whether those of us who use the facilities each month shouldn't chip in a bit each month in that regard, but I digress). Kulnura would be ideal in terms of having a meals area and toilets set up, and wide open spaces for camping.

I agree with Greg Bryant that Kulnura is a good location in terms of its drawing area - handy to both Sydney-siders and Novacastrians, as well as Central Coasters.

It is always worthwhile considering what the purpose of such an event is, especially given that there are other star parties on the calendar around Oz for those who are interested in that sort of thing. What would be distinctive about an IceinSpace star party, for example? Maybe that prompts a more profound question, of what is distinctive about the Iceinspace community, generally? In that regard, my view is three factors:

1. The forum allows instanteous discussion about astronomical events and observing as they occur, rather than a rigid monthly or fortnightly meeting that may not always co-incide with a person's other commitments or interest;

2. Visitors to the forum can pick and choose whatever is of interest to them at the time, and ignore things that do not interest them, without being concerned about offending anyone (the anonymity of the 'Net); and

3. Everyone is so incredibly friendly and helpful, particularly to newbies who may not be at all comfortable walking in on a society function where they feel as if they know no-one and know nothing!

I would recommend that in light of the above, we avoid organising too rigid a program, and that our emphasis be upon newbies. For example, during the day we could have an owner of each of the main types of telescopes give a bit of a speil about how their scope design works, what it cost, how to set it up etc. We could also have someone give a beginners tour of the night sky.

I am very much looking forward to being at the inaugural NSW IceinSpace Star Party.

[ballaratdragons]

You are absolutely correct Rod. Events bigger than the average 'get together of a couple of star-gazing mates' needs planning and plenty of notice.

It would be nice if we could all get together at the drop of a hat, but it ain't gonna happen!

[xrekcor]

Rod,

Like Ken I agree with most of the ideas you have put forward.

However I also think 2 nights running is not long enough even as a minumim. Especially for those like me up on the north coast. The gamble to travel down to even Coffs Habour to have two night of clear weather is way too short. Kulnura represents and almost 700km one way trip for me. You would still be limiting the amount of folks willing to come. I would want to come for something like 5-6 or 7 days/nights.

I'm not trying to knock Kulnura as a possible site, but I would also think that Sydney would present allot of sky glow at that location. And probably why SPSP is held way out at Ilford. Even at AstroFest QLD a 2 hour drive north west of Brissy was effected by the lights of Brissy, and the and the Gold Coast. You notice these things when you already live at a dark sky location.
I would like to see some of the SE QLD, Northern NSW, Vic and SA folks there too. Or is this event being aimed at sydney, Newcastle and Central Coast folks? Perhaps we could looks at a Lions Club or Camping ground that has anoff season during, with relivant facilities. Might be able strike a deal with them.

I dont mind chipping in for use of location, And I dont mind if the first one is a lil rough around the edges. Maybe some sort of commitee needs to be formed to deal with the logistics of and event that size.

And how about the idea of of sourcing a few willing sponsers. A raffle of sorts to raise a few dollars to help Mike keep this wonderful website maintained and running smoothly.

Winter albeit a cold time of year we would have better sky conditions... I would be cool with waiting until next winter if it mean we could try and get something serious happening.

Just some ideas

regards

[firstlight]

Hi all,

I was just looking through this thread and I thought I would put my 2 cents in.

First I was under the impression that SPSP was going a lot longer than 2001, I seem to recall several members of the BAS attending Illford in 1993, but that is not what I really wanted to talk about.

The Queensland Astrofest came about when a group tried to unite the various clubs in SE Qld in an activity. The organisers of the first Astrofest eventually eventually evolved into the Combined Presidents Meeting, which largely does not organise the astrofest currently. This is now undertaken by a subcommittee (or is that sub-committed :D) of representatives from each of the 5 local clubs (don't ask why there are so many clubs... there is only so much cyberspace). I don't have all the insides of the origins, but I hope to piece a large proportion of it together and post it onto the website in the next year or so.

One of the questions that is asked of us is why the QA is held in July/August, and mostly it has to do with tradition (we always did it then:confused:) but in my opinon the main reason has to do with the weather and the sky. You can't beat winter Milky Way, and ususlly this time of year allows us to have at least 2 or 3 nights clear during the week. We have had QA in September but I think this is largely remembered as the Year of the Bugs, as it was quite warm and the lights during the meal attacted every bug within several k's. Sure it is cold, but generally this clears the air, at least that is the theory.

Another problem we have is burn-off of the land, too late and all the cockies are trying to recreate Hiroshima. In principal the burnoff is not time related... they can do it at any time with a permit, it just happens they do it around Show time and after. The joke is that the farmers throw a match as they drive to the Ekka.

If you are keen to organise something, you will need to have a core of dedicated organisers, at least 4 will share the load adequately in the leadup, but a few others at the time will help in the enjoyment for all. Very likely this core will remain at the helm for at least the first few years, but soon others will step forward to join the organisers. In the start the QA attacted only about 30 or 40 by the weekend, but as it has gained in popularity we are now getting over 150 through the week. Astrofest was over organised in the beginning, until there was a clear understanding how the beast would react, so to speak. After a few years it becam less formal as there were 40 to 50 attending and most everybody knew everybody else and we couldn't fill all the beds. Now all the beds a filled by the weekend and so accommodation has to be tightly ordered.

Your Starparty will very likely start smallish, but as it becomes part of the Astronomy calendar, it is almost certain to grow. Your venue will have to accommodate this. This year Camp Duckadang was very close to "critical mass"... not many beds left, parking at a premium, and camping spots starting to become scarce.

So out of all that rambling I had hoped to make these points:

Weather determines when to hold it
A group of people to organise it
A suitable venue to grow into
I haven't mentioned anything about insurance etc, but I think that Anne-Louise is tapping something out at the other computer regarding this theme.

I have just read Robs post, and seem to see some echos of my thoughts.

Cheers

[earthlight]

Hmmm, It feels like a conference coming on. What your debating is just like trying to decide on a venue, topic or theme and target audience.

All of these are related. Themes like beginners’ talks can be good draw card initially but to be a sustainable yearly camp you need to interest a wider range of expertise. This is easier said then done, as not many people are willing to travel very far to give talks. Too much organization can become an over kill. After a few years of poorly attended talks during mid-week, the QLD Astrofest reduced the talks to Friday and Saturday only and then only a few as not everyone wants to sit down for that long when you can drool and gather ideas from other people's work. These days are also the busiest days and I don't think the committee could function with any more things planned on Saturday.

With venues you need to look ahead. How long do you want this event to occur for? Even if it is kept informal, if popular, the numbers will require efficient organization. Is limiting the number of people attending a wise move or trying to control a large number an option? Will this situation require a paid organiser, or a number of people dedicated to running and not experiencing the camp. Are there enough people around now willing to run a camp with similar numbers to QLD Astrofest? We have jumped from 80 to 150 people staying over the week in about 3 years. The first organisers are likely to still be involved that early on. I felt this year I was almost at that point where I was there to work and not enjoy the camp but that also comes down to the number people willing to do work, and do it well, and not slack at the responsibility given to them. (Plus the ability to trust anyone else to do it as well as you can would be a good skill to have too. :-) And I did choose to do all registration.)

One last thing about using someone's place for a venue is insurance. It is something no one wants to think about but it is important. Starting small is one thing but things become big and complicated very quickly, especially if you add in inexperienced beginners. Make sure you know what you can be covered for and work within these boundaries. Dealing with the public is a thing to be careful with. People not in clubs will probably be classed this way in the legal sense.

Please don't take my comments as negative. I just say what I think may help. I always believe in doing the best you can within the boundaries of the knowledge you have. Plus an insane interest in organising events :-)

Anne-Louise
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[iceman]

Wow loads of thoughts here, all good ideas and good suggestions, and plenty to think about. I'll respond in more detail in the next few hours, need to catch up on some work emails :)

[iceman]

Ok, more thoughts..

Duration
Agree with Rob that it would need to be longer than 2 days to draw on people from further afield, but as an inaugrual event I wouldn't want to make it any longer - there's just too many unknowns and unplanned for's in a first-run event.

Obviously that would mean missing out on some people attending - travelling a long distance for 2 nights when you don't know what the weather will do, is always going to be risky. Same applies when we had out to Wiruna (SPSP) as well though.

So I'd like to confirm 2 nights at this stage, friday/saturday night. Possibly it can change, but let's start with that for now. Obviously as it grows bigger and organisation gets better, it can be 5 days next year or something.

Where?

and

Both good points. But as Rod said:
At this stage we're not trying to compete with any other star party, but have something for the iceinspace community to attend and get excited about.
While Kulnura certainly isn't as dark as Wiruna, it's still very nice for it's proximity to transport, the city, amenities etc. And having it so close also attracts more people, because they don't have to drive so far. And if the weather does turn out to be bad, they're not that far from home.
We could plan for a site somewhere further west, but we'd have to investigate possible sites, amenities etc.
Kulnura has other things going for it, as Rod said, like:
BBQ's, tables/chairs, toilets, showers, parking, fields for camping, fields for observing.
Also agree with Rod that we would have to most likely pay the owners of the site for the use over the weekend, because potentially they would not be able to run paintball competitions that day, so we would need to at least subsidise what they would have received. Or as Ving said, maybe we can play paintball as one of the daytime events? :)
It's certainly not aimed at just the locals, we'd love to see people from further afield, but for a first-run I think there'll need to be a trade-off between ease-of-organising, facilities available, and getting people from elsewhere to attend. Will investigate possibilities of other camp grounds at a darker site.
Good point, will keep this in mind.

Timing
I'm not keen on xmas holidays, because that's when people go away on holidays and do family stuff. October long weekend (1st/2nd October) co-incides with new moon, and gives the people time to relax at home on Monday after a busy weekend. But is that enough time to organise it all?
The other time could be January long weekend as Rod suggested, which is also the date of new moon. Is October better than January for weather? Obviously the hot weather isn't ideal, especially if we get late afternoon storms.
Also though, as Greg said, Would people come to the Central Coast one month and then Ballarat 4 weeks later? I guess it depends how many people are likely to attend both.. I think a small proportion, if any (maybe I'd be the only one attending both? :)).
October long weekend is only 7 weeks away - is that enough time to organise it?

Food, Amenities
I certainly wouldn't be keen to start organising food, otherwise it would be sausage sandwhiches for breakfast, lunch and dinner. :) So maybe as Rod suggested:

We'd probably only need to cater for dinner each night, and let people arrange their own breakfast/lunch. If we hold it at Kulnura, the major shops at Gosford are literally only 25-30 minutes drive away (or only 5-10 minutes for corner stores). So people could easily stock up on supplies.

Organising
As Rob said:
Will definitely require volunteers to help with organising. I can setup a mailing list @iceinspace.com.au or private forum for volunteers to communicate with each other.
If you're seriously interested in helping out, ie: you have the time and desire, please PM or email me.
Very good point - the volunteers putting their hand up to organise it, will most certainly want to enjoy the star party as well. We don't want the two to be mutally exclusive - and if as a rule, they are mutually exclusive, then we need to find a solution.

Sponsoring
Will definitely be speaking to potential sponsors for the event. I would expect there would be quite a few willing to participate in one form or another.

Legal/Insurance
Good points raised by Anne-Louise about insurance.. need to speak with property owners about this. Rod (a lawyer) may be able to advise, but definitely an area that needs to be looked into. The property at Kulnura may already have some sort of insurance (being that they play paintball there), but more needs to be investigated here.

Daytime events
We can try and arrange talks etc for daytime stuff, or play paintball :) We'll discuss this once we know a date and location.

Naming?
Is it the official "IceInSpace Star Party"? Obviously we're affiliated with other events, like monthly sessions between members, and of course the Star Camp in Ballarat, but we're not directly involved in organising these. But the names could get confusing..
If we have it at Kulnura it could be called the "IceInSpace Coastal Star Camp" or "KulnuraCamp".. hmm need something catchy.. suggestions? :)


Thanks very much to everyone who has contributed to this thread so far, especially those experienced in attending or organising star parties. You input has been invaluable.

[ving]

I like the way you put a ":)" next to paintball each time you mentioned it :)

I like "Kulnura Star Camp". Its got a ring to it. Though more people might be attracted to a "IIS Central Coast Star Camp" especially if they have never heard of Kulnura before. And in the event of it growing and having to change location we could keep the name if it stays somewhere on the central coast area.
This is a good starting point for possible growth later

[iceman]

haha I dunno, it's just the thought of a bunch of nerdy amateur astronomers running around a field trying to kill each other with paintball guns :) Just makes me smile :)

[xrekcor]

Yeah right! I can see it now, I think I'll become a Wallabie supporter for that weekend :rofl:

On another note, If you were to choose another location (Maybe Kulnura has one as well) these sites (Lions clubs, Camping Grounds and such) have managers we maybe be able to call upon to cook meals like up at Camp Duckadang... just a thought

regards

[xrekcor]

Also I might add food doesn't have to be two course meals. burgers, steak sangers, chips, salad was on offer up @ AstroFest something simple along those lines would do. But I also dont mind bring food if there is somewhere to cook it.

regards

[xrekcor]

Personally I think you should keep a location name out of the title itself, if later you change venue it could become confusing. For example Kulnura Star Camp or such is going to sound a lil wierd if a change of venue happens to be 40-60kms up the road

just my thoughts

Ice&Space Star camp (if in winter)

regards

[Rodstar]

Re the insurance issue, a few comments:

1. In order for insurance to be needed (and obtainable), there needs to be an identifiable legal entity seeking cover. In my view, as things presently stand, Iceinspace is not a legal entity, but rather an informal internet community. I don't think "we" could get insurance if we wanted it.

2. If someone is injured, they will be probably be suing the owner of the land. This lends weight to the idea of using the Kulnura site, because the owners would certainly have insurance as they run a Paintball business (I note that paintballing is a wee bit more dangerous than standing around looking through eyepieces).

3. Under the Civil Liability Act (NSW), there are now a number of safeguards one can take to avoid liability for PI claims. For example, it is now lawful to contract out of liability for claims where people have been advised of obvious risks of injury (for abundant caution, I would recommend that participants sign a waiver of liability if their application form is to be accepted by the organisers).

4. Under the same Act, a person's right to bring a claim is now severely limited to where they have suffered serious injury, so claims for broken legs etc can't be brought anymore and pose no risk. I am having great difficulty imagining a serious injury arising from a star party (unless aperture fever suddenly becomes a fatal condition).

In short, no need to tie ourselves in knots over insurance folks! :thumbsup:

[xrekcor]

I'm not a lawyer, and I'm not trying to second guess you Rod

What in the case of someone rocking up for a quick peek through a scope setup for solar observing, the owner of the scope may try removing the filter with out realising it's currently being observed through.

In anycase any place used for public functions would have a policy covering public liability... lions clubs, camping grounds, event venues and such. Just becuase your playing paintball in a particular venues as opposed to a rock concert at the Sydney entertainment center or standing around a paddock looking through telescopes, the policy isn't any different. Your still required to have cover or the venue will be up for being sued. It is in the interest of the venue to have this cover. I think if you were to ask everyperson they have to sign away the right for compensation when they could be possibly cause for one would be very hard to acclomplish. It would in anycase fall back to duty of care.

regards

[Brendan]

on the food side of things, might i suggest the local RFS brigades (i know buckety is only just down the road) these guys need community support for things like station maintenance etc. Im sure you would find them quite willing to help out for a small donation:).

My preference would be for the January long weekend or this time next year.
The significant others birthday is in October and i would be drawn quartered shot hung and jumped on if i went star gazing instead.

also i would be interested in assisting in the orgainising committee as my uni would be over.

[Rodstar]

Rob,

For a person (plaintiff) to sue another (defendant) in relation to an injury, they must show that:
1. The defendant has a duty of care to the plaintiff
2. The defendant has failed in that duty ("negligence"), and
3. The defendant's negligence is responsible for the plaintiff's injuries.

In the example you have cited, the person (other than the would be plaintiff) with the only control over whether the injury occurs is the owner of the scope. The organisers of the starparty could not, on any analysis, have any control over such an incident. If the organisers can't control the incident, they can't be held to have failed in exercising a duty of care. Therefore, no case against the organisers.

Could the injured party sue the owner of the scope? Possibly. However, in NSW, the Court of Appeal has consistently held since October 2002 that persons must act reasonably to protect their own safety. It is for this reason that it is now virtually impossible in NSW to sue a Council because of the classic footpath trip and fall. The courts now say that people should know as a matter of common sense that footpaths are often uneven, and that they should be vigilent when taking a stroll. In like terms, amateur astronomers should know as a matter of common sense to approach a solar scope with extreme caution. A claim against the owner of the scope would almost certainly fail as well.

Before I was an industrial lawyer, I ran many hundreds of personal injury cases, firstly acting for insurers like Zurich and QBE, and later for injured persons. I have been in PI cases ranging in value from $10K to $3.5million. If the model that we are following is that we are an informal community, and not an organisation, I remain of the view that we will not be able to obtain insurance, and that we have no need to do so. Our star party will be no different to a group of mates getting together for a beer after work. We will all be equals, meeting together to pursue our mutual interests.

Here endeth the lesson. ;)

[iceman]

Thanks for the comprehensive summary Rod, it puts my mind at ease and won't worry about that part of the organisation at least :)

[xrekcor]

Rod,

Sounds good to me,

But I would of thought if the in the case of a solar observer example. If it could be proved the owner didn't take steps to ensure that a person wasn't infact taking a peek he would be liable, It could be said the observer being focused on his objective may never of noticed the filter being removed, especially if a friend was standing next to the observer so to speak, there would be a witness. It would still come down to duty of care on the owner or person(s) removing the filter wouldn't it? which is what I meant by duty of care. This very incident very nearly did happen up at AstroFest.

Also as we are registered members of a group being IceInSpace who will pay a fee to be apart of a weekend event, could that be proven to be an entity?
Would Mike (iceman) be considered an MD and the moderators or commitee members as managers of an enity? I mean when I go for a beer I'm not registered with my mates as a group of friends. Maybe for the groups sake could you clarify

It's just that before I was a fulltime dad, I spent 17 yrs in the entertainment
industry, working in almost every aspect of it and managed hundreds of events. for instance as a rigger in charge of up to 100 tons of production gear flown above the public and/or artists heads, to fabricating buildings in public areas for movie sets ie Sydney CBD, I could not and was not able to work at the time without a minumim $10 million dollar Public liability cover. Joe public could of walked onto or near some of those sites an not beware I was working 1 to 100 stories above their heads.

Like I said I'm not try to second guess you more using your knowledge, just making sure we have our T's crossed and i's dotted so to speak. Sometime it's the _unheard of_ thet gets you.

Perhaps Tony and Anne-Lousie could input here as to the insurance needed to run AstroFest if infact it was needed. But I thought I did hear Anne-Lousie mention it.

kindest regards

[cahullian]

Wouldn't the liability waiver take care of all that?
The gym I go to has one and no-one sues them for injuries.

[xrekcor]

Yeah sure! but how many astro events do you go to an sign a waiver?

Going to a gym where you know what your in for, is a lil different than going to a public event and the unexpectant happens. The gym would still have some sort of cover. For instance if you were to pick up some weights and you toppled over, the weights fall from you hands and amazingly smash through a window onto Joe public walking down the street. would you be reasponsible for the fact that the gym was on the first floor, with floor to ceiling windows? This is what public liability cover is for, the unforseen.

My question to Rod is more to do with duty of care of the organisers and making sure they are covered for the unforseen or if this needs to be an issue that should be fully looked at. I guess it is the old production manager coming out in me. We can go out with good intentions and then find ourselves in the poo. This is where experience comes in and I'm only trying to share mine ;)

kindest regards

[cahullian]

You have me scared to go outside now...and scared to stay inside also....

[ballaratdragons]

I can't speak for other States but in Victoria there are strict 'Duty of Care' regulations.

Even though there are strict Victorian rules, as a Youthworker I was also covered by Federal Duty of Care regulations which are stricter.

It states that whilst the clients (the kids) are in, and under my care and control (I hate that word) I am responsible for any misfortune, accident, misadventure, damage to or by the client, or death to or caused by the client during the process of carrying out my duty whilst on my rostered time by my contracted employer. (plus all the bits about sexual, mental and physical treatment)

And yet, if I met up with them on the weekend for a fishing trip, or we all went to the Speedway, it's not my problem if one of them gets killed or mamed.
Even if we were all 'paid up and registered' members of the 'Ice in Space Astronomy Club Inc.' no-one is responsible for anyone else at viewing sessions unless it was written into the organisations constitution that a contracted co-ordinator is responsible and registered under the 'Act of Duty of Care'.

Otherwise it is a bunch of like-minded geeks doing a geeky thing and nobody else cares.

Duty of Care doesn't come into the equation.

[xrekcor]

lol, sorry if my inquiries have made you feel that way

they certainly were not intended to do so

regards

[xrekcor]

Ken,

I did try to answer your post, but since the latest windows update yesterday my browser seems to want to crash everytime I try to use the text field in the "Add Reply" button. Hence beating out a reply only have it crash is a real pain in the @$$

Maybe this discussion could be somehow moved away from a web based chat interface

sorry mate

regards

[xrekcor]

So in very short



That’s right it would be a problem for the governing body. Or the organiser of the speedway



Ummmm not entirely how duty of care works. You cant by-pass it by simply not having it written into your organisations constitution.

Please understand I’m not trying to be auguementative or scare moungering. Simply trying to address all the if’s and but’s.

[iceman]

So, after getting carried away with insurance discussions (as important as they are), what about the other stuff?

There just won't be time to organise it before October long weekend, so can we agree on a date of 27th/28th of January (Fri/Sat nights)?

I guess all the other stuff can be nutted through with an organising committee, so now I just need some volunteers to help out. I'll setup a private forum that we can discuss everything in, and get the ball rolling.

Please PM or email me if you're interested in helping out.

[h0ughy]

Mike,

what duties have you identified and what needs to be organised?

There is a meeting of NAS on friday 26 august, do you wish to drum up some support from the society?

[iceman]

Basically, everything in here :)
http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showpost.php?p=40168&postcount=22

Once I get some volunteers together we'll just go through the open questions 1 by 1. It hasn't got as far as organising actual "duties" yet.. need to actually find out what duties need organising :)


hmm, not a bad idea.. Ghul and the boys might be interested in participating, supporting, promoting, attending, etc..

I'll email Ghul.

[xrekcor]

[QUOTE=iceman]So, after getting carried away with insurance discussions (as important as they are), what about the other stuff?

QUOTE]

Totally agree Mike,

I think it was getting way off track, no offence intended to those posting. I was aiming my q's at the legal begal who could answer, I also think it is great that we have Rod as someone who is willing to advise on these issues.

regard

[iceman]

No probs Rob, it's a discussion that needed to take place so I'm glad you and Rod could do the back and forth. And yes, many thanks to Rod for spending his time answering, much appreciated.

[Rodstar]

No worries. The bill is in the mail!

(just kidding)

[ausastronomer]

Muah is intercepting the mail on the fly with a very large pair of scissors in hand :)

CS-John B

[iceman]

So, time to revive as it's died a miserable death atm.

So far, Rob Charteris has volunteered to help with the organising, even though he may not be attending. His event mangement experience will be invaluable as this gets momentum.

Still need more volunteers to put their hand up so I can get a core group of people together and start some offline discussions and start making some decisions on the where, when and everything else that's involved.

If we want good coverage for advertising, enough notice for people travelling longer distances, then we'll need to start making some of those decisions soon.

The date at this stage is still looking to be 27-28 January 2006.

[cahullian]

I would be willing to help out in any way. Just let me know what you want or need. I would be willing to cook on the bbq or something like that, maybe even be an usher and shine a bright white torch light into peoples faces at night, just to make sure they aren't gate crashing :P

[ballaratdragons]

Have you contacted any Camps around the area up there yet? Scout Camps? Public use Camps?

[iceman]

BD: Not yet, i'm hoping we'll be able to use Anthony's (frogman's) work/home place (the paintball place). It has fields for camping, fields for observing, amenities, kitchen, etc.

I've had a brief discussion with frogman about it, and unfortunately he hasn't been able to really bring it up with his boss yet as his boss has been ill. The insurance thing shouldn't be a problem, as they already have a paintball disclaimer form that participants sign, we can do the same thing for star party participants - unless Rod convinces them that it's unnecessary.

Gazz: Thanks! Seeker has also raised his hand, although he's not sure he'll be able to make the event.

[Brendan]

Mike,
depending on the frequency/time of the orgainisation meetings I would be interested in helping out.
brendan

[iceman]

Thanks Brendan, I hadn't even thought about frequency of meetings yet. Will get on top of it and let you know.

[h0ughy]

Hi Mike et AL.

http://www.community-care.com.au/

this link is a link that may help the gatherings that we have a Community Group Insurance scheme underwritten by QBE, IAG (NRMA) and Allianz has recently been formed. Any community/sporting group or other non-profit organisation requiring a quotation can do so by accessing the Community Care web site to register your interest. An online proposal form may be available in the future but at this stage the only facility available is to register your interest on the web site. Please note the facility will provide public liability cover for non-profit groups, and it will also provide cover for special events

I haven't got into the detail yet but it does look promising!

[iceman]

Thanks h0ughy, Laurie emailed me some stuff along a similar nature last night after reading your post.

I'll look into it, and take some advice from Sir Rodney Berry to see what needs to be done. It would be nice to think that a bunch of amateurs aren't going to hurt themselves and sue anybody, but I suppose it's better to be safe than sorry.

I'll set up a private forum today for the volunteers to start organising and confirming some of the details, so we can get about promoting it etc.

[iceman]

Ok i've created a private forum, the volunteers have access to it: seeker, xreckor, brendan and cahullian.
Let me know if you 4 can't see it (it's a sub-forum under this one).

If anyone else wants to volunteer to help organising the star party, please let me know.

[iceman]

So, trying to get some more diverse ideas and feedback..

I'm looking for some more volunteers, and before you press back already, i'm not actually asking anyone to do anything yet.

All i'm after right now, is for some people to read the issues up for discussion on the private forum, and provide their feedback and ideas and suggestions.

Obviously when it gets closer, i'll be looking for people to actually do tangible stuff, but right now, it's just reading the forum and replying. I know a lot of you are used to that sort of thing. :)

So to help right now, you don't need to even plan to come to the event - you just need to be able to provide feedback and ideas. There's absolutely no obligation that you'll be expected to "do" stuff later down the track.

Let me know if you're interested and i'll give you access to the private forum.

Thanks

[ausastronomer]

Mike,

Lemmmmmmeeeeeeeeeeee Iiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn :)

CS-John B

[iceman]

Done, thanks John.

Froggy (Anthony), i've PM'd you.. want to start some discussions about talking to your boss..

[Rodstar]

Yeah, let me in too, Mike......happy to put in by 2 bobs worth.

[Greg Bryant]

Mike,

I'd be happy to share some experience on star parties.

[iceman]

Rod and Greg both have access, look forward to hearing your inputs and feedback.

It's a sub-forum under this one, if you can't see it try logging out and back in.

[iceman]

Anyone who's interested in attending this one in NSW, please provide some feedback in this thread:
http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=4463

Thanks