Supernova 2005df in NGC 1559

[Greg Bryant]

Last Friday, 5th August, Australian amateur Robert Evans discovered another supernova, this time in NGC 1559. Recent visual estimates by other people see the supernova at about 13th magnitude.

Has anyone here spotted it?

Regards,

[astroron]

Hi Greg we where contacted at the Queensland AstroFest by Robert Evens on Friday to tell of the SuperNova and that night I was able to point out the SuperNova to observers with scopes from my 16" through 20" 25" 30" it was the first time most observers had seen a SuperNova and to see it so bright and through large scopes was a bonus, and one most will remember for along time. astroron :thumbsup: :cool: :astron: :stargaze:

[Greg Bryant]

Thanks, Ron.

I've seen a report now that this supernova has reached 12th magnitude.

This is the 3rd supernova that Bob has discovered in this galaxy. Nearly 10% of his discoveries have been in NGC 1559.

[Orion]

I'm so happy for Rev,Bob Evans. It's your turn now Ron!

[Greg Bryant]

Totally agree, here. While most supernovae are being discovered by automated telescopes (much like comets), amateurs are still making the rare visual discovery. Here in the Southern Hemisphere, there's much less competition, so make the most of it!

[astroron]

Thanks Ed, I have not done any observing since Astrofest due to weather and a lousey cold , and now the Moon is getting brighter by the night, but I will keep trying. astroron:thumbsup: :astron:

[fringe_dweller]

Greg, I used to get upset thinking about the approaching possible end or huge reduction of human discoveries re comets particularly and the end of the romance of amateur human discovery. But then I realised it doesnt make any difference if 'Robby the Robot' finds it or some human to me personally. As for me the observations/imaging of the discovered comets is plenty enough to keep me busy some years. In fact the amount of effort required of a human to find a comet visually is close to ridiculous (1000's of hours per comet in some cases) Not to mention the fact that humans used to tend to find them visually when they were at their brightest or even past their brightest and near or around perihelion - and by the time an orbit is worked out and released its nearly all over. I love the huge buffer the automated surveys give the average basic observer - by discovering them way in advance and at mag 17 or something crazy - having an orbit worked out long before they are at their best possibly. Also how many nice comets were missed by visual observers? over the years?.
I note that some modern amateur discovery now typically involves systems close to being automated surveys anyway - the lines are getting very blurred! Certainly not a lot of people doing it the old fashioned way visually??! Dont get me wrong I am barracking for the amateur human hunters/discoverers number one (I like these guys a lot!) - but not at the cost of missing out on an early warning and orbit/dates just so someone can be immortalised and a handful of people on the inside get to see it exclusively before it fades. Also it is better for earth generally if there is any threat of a possible impact I would think, to know much further in advance?.
Kearn

[Stu]

Yeh it is kindof good to know that most earth crossing comets will be found at 17mag or less.

The supernova almost looks like it's not part of NGC 1559.

[ballaratdragons]

Onya Bob Evans!

I remember when Tarantula was a SuperNova! It was a sweet site to see indeed. It has stuck in my memory how fantastic it looked. That was back in '85 I think.

[astroron]

What you see of most galaxies is not all the galaxy,there is a halo of stars and matter that can reach almost a third of the size of the galaxy again, which is sometimes seen in very deep images,but only in the closer galaxies, a good example is M83.See my avitar for an example of a supernova seemingly outside a galaxy. astroron :thumbsup:
Ken just seen your post, the supernova was 1987a was discoverd in Feb1987 in the LMC but not in the tarantula neb but close by :thumbsup:

[ballaratdragons]

And don't forget about the new discovery of Dark galaxies! Must be something in there worth SuperNovering too.

If they did, they would certainly stand out amongst the dark matter!

[atalas]

Mr Evans has done It again ah ! I bet his got God telling him where they are :prey: Whats his count now about 40 ? :thumbsup:

Congrats Bob ! and thanks for bringing It to our attention Greg :thumbsup:

Louie :)

[astroron]

In post #8 it was noted that the Supernova2005df in Ngc 1559 seemed to be outside the galaxy, this image from ESO shows that the S/N is well within the outer halo of the galaxy.astroron:thumbsup: :astron: :stargaze:

[Robby]

I'm not a robot.. :rofl: . Well, not last time I checked! :whistle:

[astroron]

Seeing as you brought fringe-dwellers post up, a couple of points I would like to raise, (1) Most of the really bright Comets in the last hundred years or more have been discovered by amateur astronomers,some of the observers where both amateur and proffessional, it has only been in the last twenty or so years that we have had a very coordinated search by by proffessionals. In my book what I call bright are comets that get to be seen in twilight or daylight such as Hale-Bopp, Hyaukataki, West, and Ikaya- Seki.
Comets like the LINEAR and NEAT that we have seen over the last few years are what I would call moderatly bright but not in the same league as the above named Comets.

Because a comet or an Asteroid is discovered at 17th mag doesn't do us that many favours,because at the moment if it was heading straight for us we could't do anything about anyway, and if you want to observe it you have to in most cases have to wait quite a while till it gets bright enough to see in even the largest of amateur scopes, and taking pictures of faint blobs of comets in MHO is not the greatest thrill in astronomy.
Isn't it strange that with all the Automated searches in the World that they have missed all these very bright objects, Bob Evens 40 or so Supernovae Bill Bradfield with his I think 40 Comets, it goes to show that we cannot rely on the automated searches to find everything.
So to those of US who spend many hours looking for Comets and Supernovae I say keep up the good work.astroron :thumbsup: :astron: :astron:

[fringe_dweller]

hey Robby .. you sure? .. do you thirst for oil? do you find yourself saying *exterminate* *exterminate* or "*Danger* *Danger* Will Robinson" in a shrill metallic voice or hhmmm? ;) LOL

Astroron what you call bright comets - i would call Great Comets :) I am on a comets list were some of them call mag 17 comets and under *bright* heheh
Personally bright comets start at mag 7 (sometimes 8) or when they look good in big binos
yes the last two or three great white hopes were fizzlers to the general public or "apple on a stick"(s) as John Bortle famously calls these type of mostly gas comets.
did you see Comet 2000 WM1 (LINEAR) straight after its huge outburst in the morning sky late jan/early feb 2002? - that was a serious comet to view :-))
I still stand by my view that for hard core comet chasers like me and my friends who have to book holidays in advance to make sure they see the best of an apparition - the earlier the better!
Kearn
And Bill Bradfield has found 18 comets in total! :)

[Greg Bryant]

I agree - I certainly love the buildup to a comet's approach (thanks to the advance warning of the LINEAR and NEAT surveys), waiting to see the first very faint visual observations come in. With C/2001 Q4 (NEAT), we had nearly 3 years between discovery and its peak brightness.

[astroron]

As I said most of the nice bright Comets that you like to take your nice pictures of are found by amateurs,case in point Hale-Bopp and we had to wait along time for its greatest apparition.
If we relied only on automated surveys Quite a few of comets could be missed, you also did not address the point as to how these nice big bright comets and supernova where missed by those very expensive surveys when some dedicated astronomer and his quite modest scope was able to find them. :shrug:

[fringe_dweller]

Astroron, the two big NEO surveys LINEAR and NEAT werent up and running at full tilt boogie till after those two last most recent "bright comets" you mentioned were discovered - i think LINEAR was 1997 and NEAT in late 1995/early '96? - they have been getting better at it all the time too! scary
There are still areas of the sky that these two big northern surveys dont cover - southern hemisphere for one thing ;) also they didnt/ still dont? search completely down low on the horizon, near the sun, at the pole(s) or fully in the milky way even now
Although the Sidings Spring Survey is well on its way now, - and there are a few amateur surveys that are successful also, - Vello Tabur comes to mind of course :) - they still dont cover the entire southern sky yet? (i think? the northern hemisphere sky is at 80% coverage now!!!!!) also weather is involved as well as other factors I too.
I dont know about calling their equipment exactly modest - in Yuji Hyakutake's case, a pair of fujinon 150mm bino's !! how much are they? although it is still affordable I guess if your keen enough - about the same as a small new car?
Cheers
Kearn
ps I am not an expert!! I only have a very basic knowledge of the search for comets/NEO's - theres a lot more to it than what i mentioned of course
pps thnx for compliment re our pictures too mate :)

[fringe_dweller]

yep us too Greg, very exciting the build-up, the drama and intrigue! - whats it gonna do? - I find its like waiting for xmas when your a kid :) sort of
Its lookin a bit scary at the moment, been a long time since there wasnt a LINEAR or NEAT on the future horizon!
kearn

[Greg Bryant]

It's certainly nice to see amateurs still making finds despite the presence of the surveys. Looking at the comet statistics, and excluding SOHO finds, the number of amateur discoveries (with the number representing visual discoveries in brackets) over the last ten years is:
2005: 1 (0)
2004: 3 (2)
2003: 1 (0)
2002: 7 (5)
2001: 1 (1)
2000: 1 (1)
1999: 6 (3)
1998: 4 (2)
1997: 4 (3)
1996: 4 (3)

There was even a recent discovery made by amateurs using the SWAN camera onboard SOHO - C/2005 P3 (SWAN). It was faintly visible through amateur scopes in the Northern Hemisphere.

[Greg Bryant]

There's another huge survey about to become operational - Pan-STARRS.

http://pan-starrs.ifa.hawaii.edu/public/

It will have the ability to detect supernovae/novae as well as comets/asteroids.

[Greg Bryant]

1) Astroron,

With regard to supernova discoveries, the surveys can't image all the galaxies all the time. So, an amateur can still look at a galaxy that may not have been imaged by the surveys in a week or more, and hit the jackpot as supernovae rise very quickly in brightness.

2) Kearn,

Regarding LINEAR and NEAT comets, they're still being discovered but it's true that none of the recent finds show promise for the future. The next one may well be currently deep in the southern sky, below the horizons of LINEAR and NEAT, but potentially catchable by the Siding Spring Survey.

But that's not to say that there isn't anything bright coming up. Some short-period comets are of interest.

Comet 73P/Schwassmann-Wachmann 3 split in 1995, and at least two of its fragments are expected to return next year. If those fragments behave like they did at their last return in 2000/1, the brightest one may reach 3rd or even 2nd magnitude in May as it passes very close to Earth.

Close approaches are also to explain for some other periodic comets that are expected to approach the naked-eye mark over the next decade or so - comets 8P/Tuttle at 6th magnitude in 2 years, and 103P/Hartley 2 at 4th magnitude in 5 years are two examples that come to mind.

[fringe_dweller]

Woops! yes sorry I should said no bright LINEAR's or NEAT's on the future horizon - and i forgot about 73P (but it wouldnt of been for long :) ) Starting to have withdrawals now! I love using Seiichi Yoshida's page for a reminder of whats coming up, if I need it http://www.aerith.net/comet/future-s.html
I agree - the amateur discoveries are a long way from over - specially SN's and variable flare ups ect. this page has an interesting graph re this subject, I note the southern observers actually went up in the period covered. http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~zs3t-tk/comet_hunter/comet_hunter.htm
cant find info on how far south dec. Pan-STARRS will search? I think its a least 60º south in dec. from memory? man thats gonna be the big daddy of surveys that one eh!
and i have to correct something - LINEAR searches to dec. 30º south.
also the full moon periods are survey free I believe.
kearn

[astroron]

I have enjoyed this thread, it has brought out a lot of information for other IIC members and myself :thumbsup:
I hope LINEAR OR NEAT find a Comet real soon or it's going to be a long time befor you and your friends have a holiday :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: As has been mentioned by Greg and yourself it's been a long time between drinks since we had a nice bright Comet but when it comes we will all be happy.
Thanks for putting me streight on Bill Bradfields total, I had some corrispondance with him some years ago, great bloke. Cheers astroron :lol: :astron: :stargaze:

[ausastronomer]

Ron,

The 1st Celestial Body I ever looked at was Bennett's Comet in 1970. I was only 11 years old and my mother told me the night before she was going to wake me at 4:00am to look at "something special" in the sky. Well prior to looking, I was under the impression that nothing in the sky was special enough to wake at 4:00am to look at :)

From the 1st glimpse I was hooked, I was amazed that something so bright with a long tail like that could even exist in the night sky. Unfortunately at the time my parents nor I, knew anything about Comets or Astronomy and we only owned a small pair of binos, but it was the ember that started the fire. Since that time I have had a love affair with big bright naked eye comets, not that there is an over abundance of them. Surprisingly, I don't really have much interest in observing the dimmer comets telescopically or in binoculars for that matter, they just don't row my boat.

CS-John B

[astroron]

I have loved Comets since Halley in 1986, but my favourite is Hyukataki, I used to watch it everynight from my observatory and my other home in Redcliffe for months when one night the tail appeard, I drove up here to my observatory at about seven thirty on the night which was a thursday and stayed up till it dissapeared then called in sick the next day and had the most fantastic comet observing weekend I have ever had.
Comet Hale -Bopp was good but I think not as good as Hyukataki, Hale-Bopp was probably better for Northern Hemisphere observers because it was a night time Comet,it was an evening Comet and fairly low for me, it set earlier because of some hills,but still good.astroron :cool: :thumbsup:

[fringe_dweller]

Thanks Ron :) LOL me too! I have enjoyed this thread very much too.
and i hope you find a new SN soon as well!

Halleys in '86 was my first comet too - and Comet Hyakutake was very, very special from dark skies maybe 'once in a lifetime' as they say, the most amazing thing I have ever seen i reckon - we did the same weekend too.
It has been said before, but it is funny how these bright comets spark the flames of so many of us and peoples interest in astronomy/photography. And its also interesting to me that so many of these sparks come from the maternal sides of families. My mate who made both my scopes, and lots of others, told me once that that he originally got the bug from his grandmother when he was young telling him about the Halleys comet visit in 1910 she saw when she was a girl (although I think it was more likely it was The Great Daylight Comet of 1910 - it is common that they are mixed up - it was much more speccy) he told me, she said it was so bright it cast shadows!!. I have read almost identical stories like this relating to this comet and grandmothers/mothers sparking an early interest in some well known amateurs.
Cheers
Kearn