Update on Laser Pointer Laws

[iceman]

Hi all

I received this from John Sarkissian, who has been making representations to the NSW Government on behalf of the members of the Central West Astronomical Society and the general amateur and professional astronomical community. They received the following email from Les Tree, Director General of the Ministry for Police in NSW.

It is posted here for the information of IceInSpace members and guests.

[ngcles]

Hi Mike and All,

Based on the letter/info received by John Sarkissian reproduced in Mike's post, I'd say this is a very sensible piece of change to the legislation in the circumstances -- assuming this is the way the legislation actually pans out in the end. It could have been a lot, lot worse. Considering the spate of "attacks" on cars etc now (not just planes), we can think ourselves lucky.

Congrats to all who took the time to write, email or whatever. Well done -- this is your achievement.

Best,

Les D

[OneOfOne]

Yes, I think you would have to say it is a reasonable outcome bearing in mind the recent spates of inappropriate useage of lasers. It will be interesting to see how the legislation effects individuals who are not members of a club...

[h0ughy]

better news than the original measures that they were to impose on us!

[trav]

As both a pilot and amateur astronomer I'm very pleased with this outcome.

What's the odds we'll get iceinspace cleared as an approved professional or amateur astronomical organisation” ;)

[GrampianStars]

Lasers :rolleyes: Now they're illegal I want 1 :doh: must be the 70's rebellion showing through :rofl:

[Rattler]

Boo!

Well, after all these years of not being assocatied with any one Astronomical Soceity, I might have to join so I may retain my laser. After Endeavour A.S., I did not foresee such a development.

Now, to find a good low cost, high benefit one..... ;)

Have fun!

John

PS - Well done with the email "Sharky". JL

[ngcles]

Hi Rattler & All,

Well Rattler, there is one quite nearby to you only about 7 kms drive -- Sutherland Astronomical Society, at Oyster Bay. I think it fits your criteria...


Best,

Les D

[Moonboy]

Lol.:rofl: Thats like me but i want fire works:lol:

[prichens]

Good to see a respons from the NSW Police, anyone had news from the QLD side or the remainder of the States ?
I as because I will be in the SA crossing the Simpson Desert in August and would like to be able to take mine to point out stars to the other trip members.

Peter Richens - Brisbane

[AstralTraveller]

I wouldn't worry. Last time I was out that way coppers were pretty thin on the ground. If you did come across one they would probably have more on their mind than your laser - lost tourists, medical emergency etc.

Have a great trip.
Dave

[proudy]

Does anyone know what current and proposed law is in WA?

Also it would be good if iceinspace is a recognised amateur astronomy org. because it the only one that I belong too.

I use a 30MW laser pointer, is a 1MW version of any use?

[AstroJunk]

The Qld law will be changed next year and will be along similar lines to NSW. If you really want to keep your laser, then join a club.

To be honest, you are missing out big time if you live in Brisbane and aren't a member of a club - all the clubs are brilliant.

(as General Sec of the AAQ I wouldn't be biassed ...)

[marki]

G'day

I am going through the process of importing a SCT laser collimator into WA from the USA. I approached the police to find out the laws here as I already have 2 other lasers. This is what I was told,

"Laser pointers have recently been reclassified as controlled weapons
however possession is not illegal".

Terry Bodenham
Senior Constable 9826
Licencing Crime Investigation Squad

What he basically said was if you pointed it at an aircraft or person it would be classified as a lethal weapon and you would be charged. Otherwise responsible use is ok.

That said it took 2 weeks to organise the form from the police (B709B) to show state approval and customs threaten to take up to 3 more weeks to give the ok once they have processed the B710 form that had to be included with my application as well as a whole lot of other stuff. You would think I was trying to import a vile of smallpox or something. Folks if you are planning to import a laser may I suggest you start well in advance.

Mark

[gregl456]

I'd be interested to hear if anyone has knowledge of the transitional arrangments for Class 3x devices (e.g. 20 MW green pointers) acquired before the curtain came down.

I've been tracking this issue for a while, and the Customs Regs are clear enough. What I'd like to know is if anyone has any experience with the B709B and B710 forms. The B710 appears to cover "proposed" import and does not deal with the above scenario.

[marki]

The info I got along with the B710 form allows for this. If the item is here before approval has been given, customs will hold or seize the laser and notify the owner who will then get B390 reciept for goods or a seizure notice. The owner must then gain approval via the B709B, fill out the B710 and post the B390 along with these as well as photo ID, evidence of end use and pictures of the laser. This will apply to any laser travelling through customs after July 1 2008 no matter when it was purchased.

The rest is up to each state to regulate ownership of the lasers.

Mark

[gregl456]

Many thanks, Mark.

I'm in Victoria, but the process for lasers acquired prior to 1 July is probably similar.

Still interested to hear from anyone in Victoria who's been through the process. Could be a bit soon after the change...

Meanwhile, I'd hate to get busted doing an astronomy show-and-tell in camping ground or public park somewhere :(

BTW, a couple of years ago the good people at Bintel were insisting that any hand-held pointers could only be sold (without a permit) if accompanied by a mount that attached to the OTA alongside the guidescope...

[iceman]

Some more updates about the Laser Pointer laws:

[Kal]

Direct link to the where the gazette ishere (http://www.advertising.nswp.commerce.nsw.g ov.au/Gazette/Current+Gazette.htm) (in pdf form)

Weapons Prohibition Amendment (Laser Pointers)
Regulation 2008
under the
Weapons Prohibition Act 1998
1 Name of Regulation

This Regulation is the
Weapons Prohibition Amendment (Laser
Pointers) Regulation 2008.
2 Commencement
This Regulation commences on 18 July 2008.
3 Amendment of Weapons Prohibition Act 1998 No 127
Schedule 1 to the

Weapons Prohibition Act 1998 is amended by
inserting after clause 4 (7):
(8) A laser pointer, or any other similar article, that consists
of a hand-held battery-operated device with a power output
of more than 1 milliwatt, designed or adapted to emit a
laser beam and that may be used for the purposes of
aiming, targeting or pointing.
4 Amendment of Weapons Prohibition Regulation 1999
The

Weapons Prohibition Regulation 1999 is amended as set out in
Schedule 1.

Schedule 1 Amendment
(Clause 4)
Schedule 1 Persons exempt from requirement for permit
Insert after clause 7:
8 Possession and use of laser pointers
(1) A person who acquired a laser pointer before 18 July 2008 is
exempt from the requirement under the Act for a permit to
possess or use the laser pointer until 1 December 2008 or such
time as the person acquires such a permit, whichever occurs first.
(2) Despite subclause (1), a person who is (or has been within an
approved period) a member of an approved astronomical
organisation is exempt from the requirement under the Act for a
permit to possess or use a laser pointer, but only for the purpose
of enabling the person to take part in activities associated with
astronomy.
(3) In this clause:
laser pointer

means a prohibited weapon referred to in clause
4 (8) of Schedule 1 to the Act.

[Kal]

A couple of notes - it says "hand pointed" so if the device is attached to the telescope, would this be considered a part of the telescope system, or would it still be considered "hand pointed".

Secondly, it is good to see that you don't need a permit at all if you are a member of an astronomical society. I think Victoria is different in this respect isn't it, where you still have to purchase a permit if you are in an astronomy society?

[erick]

I reckon you'll find that "hand-held" will be interpreted to include "hand-holdable". Haven't seen that tested yet. Be aware that some of the laser collimators are rated >1mW. We would not have thought of these as hand-held laser pointers, but I'm sure they would be captured.

I haven't heard that Victorian laws are changing.

I previously posted:-


From the list of prohibited weapons in Victoria is the following:-

"Laser pointers
Hand-held battery-operated articles that are designed or adapted to emit a laser beam with an accessible emission limit of greater than 1 mW."

To be licensed to possess and use, you need:-

Application for the Chief Commissioner of Police's Approval for a Prohibited Weapon. (Including the usual 140 points of identification and certified copies of identification documents. Having a suitable referee. Giving acceptable reason(s) why approval should be given for you to possess and use the prohibited weapon.)

An application/licence fee of $154 (when I applied in 2007) for a three year licence.

Meeting storage requirements of a "locked cupboard, cabinet or safe of sturdy construction" etc.

Here is the URL for documents:-

http://www.police.vic.gov.au/content...ocument_ID=139 (http://www.police.vic.gov.au/content.asp?Document_ID=139)

[Kal]

Thanks Erick, I thought that was the case but wasn't sure.

[gregl456]

Erick - many thanks for that excellent info. Looks like there's no escape :(

(Wonders) If the said pointer is fixed to a large OTA, then does the requirement for keeping the pointer in a safe still apply?

[DistroMan]

$154 licence fee for three years? You have GOT to be joking! Highway robbery. Glad I'm not living down there. :eyepop:

[wmzaphod]

Just a thought.......

Does anyone know what the "dangerous" range is for these things?

It's just that the beam on my 25mw pointer spreads out significantly over 20 meters and I doubt it would even dazzle someone at 500 meters :shrug: would it be as bright as a car's headlight - would you see it and say "oo, that's a bright green (or blue) light - I don't know........

I'm sure the authorities have run some tests or measurements to actually prove there is a danger :whistle:

Sorry for the dumb questions but - 25mw is not much power at all and, if it's not focused perfectly (are any of them), it will dissipate very quickly.

:)

[tornado33]

Im glad NSW has gone a more sensible way. Its nice to know that in NSW I am now considered a perfectly legitimate and legal laser owner/user and can now collimate my scopes with my red laser colimator, and point out things in the sky at local Society viewing nights with my green pointer, which is precicely why I bought them.

regarding storage. I always store the pointer WITHOUT batteries, as apart from safety, I found that the batteries slowly drain even if it isnt used.

If I lived in Vic, Id be an illegal user!

[wmzaphod]

Qld announced weapons legislation changes this week and included laser pointers!

No more details as yet.....:mad2:

[caleb]

i have a some lasers pointers for a hobby, they arent very powerful but i think im gonna need one for my telescope, but iv beenn told i only need 1mw. wich im prety damn sure is way to unpowered, i reckon 30mw atleast. butdoes anyone know where i can get a 1mw 532nm pointer, i just want to be proved that it cant do it. and, they are so boring i cant find them anywhere.

[erick]

I also doubt 1mW will do, except in very dark skies. I say 5mW is what one needs unless in quite bright skies and/or a large group of people to show the sky, then maybe 20mW.

Here is a source of 1mW - he seems to have two types of 1mW:-

Contact Matthew Lovell in South Australia

PH: 61+ 8 8381 3188
FAX: 61+ 8 8381 3588
telescopes@adam.com.au
http://www.telescopes-astronomy.com.au (http://www.telescopes-astronomy.com.au/)

He advertises:-

"GREEN LASER POINTERS

We are licensed importers and retailers of Green, Red and Blue Lasers. All Lasers have a 3 month warranty. We offer a repair service for all Laser Pointers. We exchange your broken Laser for a new one if kept in good condition and purchased from us:

JLP Series Green Laser Pointer

JLP-1mW - $80AUD
JLP-5mW - $115AUD
JLP-10mW - $170AUD
JLP-20mW - $240AUD
JLP-30mW - $280AUD
JLP-50mW - $340AUD
JLP-100mW - $490AUD
JLP-350mW - $990AUD
JLP-400mW - $1190AUD

Astronomy 1mW Green Laser Pointer $100AUD

Various Laser Modules available"

[caleb]

hmm, so does this mean i can get the import forms filled out and say im a member of IIS to get a pointer?

I believe at minimum a 5mw pointer for a personal 'finder' is probably the least power useable. But instead of spending money on a 5mw that wont be powerful enough to just get a 10mw for a fraction of the cost more.

And im quite certain that a large group standing upto 10-15m away will need atleast 15mw-30mw.

Or maybe when blue lasers become cheaper they will make it 0.1mw.

I'm training to be a pilot at moment:D
almost upto solo...


only 'hand-held' pointers that are battery powered are part of this ban.
so modules, lab lasers and diodes are perfectly legal. (to an extent)

[tornado33]

Glad I dont live in VIC

Regarding the law in NSW, as we now know membership of a bona fide Astronomy society allows us to use them for this purpose, but whats the go re- buying new ones? can they still be purchased here, or imported frome o/seas from ebay etc?

Laser collimators may need to be more than 1 mw to be seen on clean or freshly coated mirrors. Then theres the fancy grid collimators, that must surely be quite a few mw to project a grid across the whole mirror.
Scott

[g__day]

I ponder a 1,000,000 candlepower bulb would be more dazzling and dangerous than a normal laser, but these lasers have considerable range - dazzling to 5+ km at night.

I wonder how long before 200mW lasers are re-stickered to to say 1/200mW laser :)

[BalderAsir]

as both a pilot and amateur (new) astronomer i understand where the frustration is coming from with these laws. I have, sadly, been stung with a green laser whilst on approach to land, thankfully my mate in the right hand seat was a pilot and he could take over because my night adaptation was shot and and i temporarily lost my ability to judge my height and position to the runway. So in that sense I am happy with the tough crackdown on laser lights.

Now, that been said, from the other side (our) side i understand that many use these to help align and show others around the sky i like the way that the authorities are going with allowing people to own lasers if a member of an astronomy club or get a permit to own one, An all out ban would have been a major upset for our community.

Either way, so long as they can crack down on the idiots using these for the wrong reasons is a good thing, i mean, honestly, how many of you are going to set up your scope any where near an airport and leave them on for an extended period of time. I take it you all turn it on, align, then switch off right :)

[snowyskiesau]

Thought I'd pass this news (http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,24282621-29277,00.html) item along.

[BalderAsir]

Good on them.

[Jeff]

When collecting my confiscated Laser Pointer & Bracket from Customs at Melbourne airport today, they informed me that mine was the first released by them in Victoria since the new laws came into effect on June 30.

The post here summarises how release by Customs was organised. The Ministerial Approval letter which I received from Canberra did however stress that "prior" import approval would be required to successfully receive any future units.

Cheers,
Jeff