127mm APO First light

[Terry B]

Dear All
Despite the crappy moon I had a look through my new toy tonight. I got in about 30 mins of viewing before the clouds won.:mad2:
I set up the scope this afternoon and had a look at some distant trees. There is a tiny amount of blue fringe using an 8mm teleview plossl but nothing at all through the supplied 10mm eyepiece. (that looks like a Meade wide angle series 4000)
Tonight I aligned first on centaurus A through the clouds. The double is perfectly clean split with a 24.5mm eyepiece and also with the 10mm. I wasn't able to make out any diffraction rings as the clouds were getting thicker.
I then aimed at spica. It was in the clouds but also showed no false colour.
By now the entire sky to the west was clouded so I aimed a Jupiter in the east. Using the 10mm eyepiece it was lovely and clear with no false colour.
I wasn't able to assess whether the field is flat photographically because of the cloud but the stars seemed to have the same focus at the edge of my 24.5mm eyepiece to the centre.
I 'm looking forward to trying the scope out some more but will need the clouds to go.:shrug:

[AlexN]

sweet looking setup terry, and good to hear about the clean, correct color images it gives.

Im sure you'll get some cracker images out of 127mm of APO goodness! :D

[madtuna]

Got to agree with Alex.. also now that you've had a chance to play with it, how do you find the overall build quality of it? ie: fit and finish?

[Terry B]

The build quality seems pretty good. The only gripe I've noticed so far is the thread on the front of the dew shield that the cap screws into is a little bit rough. This makes it a bit difficult to screw the cap back on. I will attack it with a scraper sometime.
It was extremely well packaged and looks the part.
I will have to get a 2" photo adaptor as my current method of attachment for my camera is a custom threaded adaptor for the vixen threads. This scope does have a thread on the back but it isn't the same.
Also I've had no experience with the 2 speed craford focusser and will have to work out how to lock it for imaging. It has a couple of screws underneath it that seem to tighten it but not lock it like the one on my vixen rack and pinion focuser.

[madtuna]

Did your Vixen come with the flip mirror? because your camera adapter will screw straight onto it if you unscrew one of the tubes

[Terry B]

No.
My scope predates the flip mirrors. I have a slide mirror that I use with my little CCd but it has a SCT thread and this isn't the same thread as the new scope.
As a work around I have a T mount to 1 1/4" adapter that is usually on my guide camera. I can plug that into the back of the scope. This then leaves me with difficulty connecting the guider but I hobbled together an adapter that lets me achieve focus with the guider. It isn't very rigid but will do until I buy a proper adapter for the new scope.

[Terry B]

As I'm at home this morning rather than at work (looking after my sick kids) I had a go at taking a pic through the scope.
The image is out the door of my observatory whilst it is lightly raining. The contrast is very low but at least it worked. I just aimed down into the trees and conveniently a couple of roos were down there.
The images are a full frame and a cropped section. I haven't processed them at all apart from a slight increase in contrast. The field seems pretty flat with little vignetting. I will have to do proper flats to check. There doesn't seem to be any false colour with the infocus areas but there is when it is out of focus.

[kwkee]

Look great to me. Really cool to see those roos.

How do you find the mechanics of the focuser? Smooth?

Thanks

[AlexN]

looks very nice to me! what kind of range were they taken at? my guess judging by size of the roos in the pic/aperture+FL of the scope.. say 200 - 300M away?

The images are very sharp and seem completely free from any distortions.. which can only be seen as a good (read: GREAT) thing.

Coloring seems pretty sweet to, provided you focus it up as well as you have here on your first deep space imaging run I think the results will leave you with your mouth on the floor.

Good example subject too.. it really helps to see what these scopes can do when you have a subject that most people can scale in their minds. Seeing something thats 15m lightyears away is great and all that, but really, nobody can quite get their heads around the numbers involved to make an accurate judgment (or any kind of size comparison.)

Would be great to see a pic taken from the same spot of the same area with a dslr and a 35/50mm lens. (obviously you'd be very lucky to get the roos to pose the same for you)


I cant wait till your sky clears!! - Neither can you I imagine.

[TrevorW]

Terry glad to see my original post for this scope appears to have turned out well !!. Enjoy

[Terry B]

The focuser is very smooth. It seems not to slip but I haven't aimed it high in the sky yet.

The Roos were about 200m away.
If I used a 50mm lens from the same spot you woukd have just seen the dooway that I was aiming the scope through.
Because of the APS size sensor of the 40D, the scope equates to the equivalent of a 1500mm lens on a 35mm camera. Pretty good for wildlife shots. They were 1/60 sec exposures.


You did very well finding it.:thumbsup:

[allan gould]

There are two screws on the focuser. The one closest to the eyepiece is for tensioning the focusser. The other closest to the scope/lens end is for locking the focuser so that the focusing wheels just turn freely. Need to balance the first screw for getting the tension right with a DSLR.

[kwkee]

Thanks allan. I got my scope today.......and I was thinking about that two screws too.

[netwolf]

Terry it would be great if you could image something bright and white during the day time. Would help to get an Idea of CA and compare to the AT Scope White post image posted in the CN forums.

[kwkee]

For those who have this scope, I have 2 questions :

1) does your focuser able to rotate a little before you put on the finder?
2) How many screws did you see below your focuser?

For my scope, the focuser is able to rotate like 45 degrees if the finder is not installed. Once the finder is installed, the focuser is firm and tight.

There is only 2 screws below the focuser.

Is yours the same?

[Terry B]

Tthere are 2 screws below the focusser.
I haven't tried to turn the focusser without the finder and as mine is set up in my observatory I don't plan on removing the finder for a while.:)

[h0ughy]

well I had a go at the scope this evening, and it wasn't without its problems, mainly to do with the fact i haven't imaged in ages. I borrowed Alan Meehans mount in his observatory, and added a side by side bar, then mounted the 127APO. I still need to learn how to focus and as per usual i had software glitches. The mount also played up a bit. anyway I am more than impressed with the scope, the visual views through it are atreat, bands on Jupiter were so contrasty and clear - simply amazing, and the moon was crisp in the eyepiece. With these bright objects I did notice a purple halo in the Jupiter shot and a slight hint of colour (greenyyellow colour) on the moons rim, but i can easily look past that. the scope is brilliant. the focuser is stiff but workable (certainly no moonlight focuser). So here they are. Eta (out of focus slightly) a 30 second shot of Jupiter and a shot of the moon.

[toyos]

"I did notice a purple halo in the Jupiter shot and a slight hint of colour (greenyyellow colur) on the moons rim"

errr....isn't this supposed to be a triplet APO? But for the price, who can complain. Contrasty, clear, crisp & sharp images are the 'standard features' of any decent refractor :D We pay big bucks for good APO's mainly because we don't want that chromatic aberration :)

But anyway, I've given Gilman a list of 2-3 different scopes + the heavy-duty GOTO GPS mounts to buy just for testing out of curiosity. I'll sell them again soon after. So if anyone is interested to buy them after I'm finished with them, just let me know.

[Stephen65]

Colour may be caused by the eyepiece, many eyepieces show green/yellow on the Moon's rim when the rim is placed towards the edge of the FOV. The purple halo on Jupiter is a bit harder to explain though.

The best way to test for colour correction is to find a bright star and focus in and out and see how much colour there is in the in and out of focus images.

[JohnH]

Here are a few images from my first attempt with this new scope last night. The nearly full moon really did not help with the swan shot but I did not want to use filters as the idea was to see how the scope perfomed - in particular wrt SA and CA. I imaged with the Canon 20D (unmodded) at prime focus.

Before I imaged I had a look at the moon, jupiter and Omega C with the supplied eyepieces (20mm and 10mm). The views were stunning (to me at least - I have never looked through a big refractor before). I found the focus crisp visually and the action smooth (I did have to take a little tension off). The cloud belts on jupiter were very evident at 20mm with 4 moons nicely frames, with more cloud detail showing at 10mm. I did not notice any false colour.

Then to the moon - very, very bright! I did notice a thin blue edge to the bright edge of the moon but it did not interfear with a tour of the terminator with really sharp views. I noticed the the colour fringe was more pronounced if the focus was off and varies in colout to green if my eyeline was off centre to the eyepiece. Once these issues were addressed I found that there was no noticeable false colour. Omega C resolved nicely in the 20mm ep with many pinpoint stars, I did not try my Vixen eps out to see if they gave better results as I was anxious to start imaging.

I connected the 20d and shot the moon at iso 400 and 1/1600s and then Antares and the Swan at iso 1600 and 180s. No flats were used but ICNR was on, I have only adjusted levels in PS.

I seems the scope is performing well but would benefit from a flattener - the outer 15% or so of the frame has some SA - I think the WO 0.8x mkIII flattener would be a good match?

Bottom line for the $$$ this is a wonderful scope.

[h0ughy]

because I didn't use the EPs that came with the scope I borrowed Alan's series 4000 26mm Eyepiece - I do suggest that it was the EP to a large extent. I deliberately took jupiter at 30seconds just so as to see any colour in the spikes and how it handles bright objects. I am happy with it and consider this the bargain of the century:D:D:thumbsup: I rate the scope 10/10 for value :thumbsup:

[h0ughy]

you must have shot the moon a little later than me;):whistle:, but all I can say is we have the bargain of the century:thumbsup::rofl:. best of luck those that follow in our footsteps, and if your gear turns out like what we have you have a winner:D:D:thumbsup: my eta shot was a single 2 minute shot canon 20D - obviously Modded (care of Eric lo incorporated enterprises patent pending.....). This will be a delight to use with my cooled Canon 350D :whistle: 'O how I am looking forward to Qld Astrofest :) :) :)

There should be enough shots now for the Plebeians out there to make a decision now:rofl:

[renormalised]

Takes nice shots and it's a nice looking scope...how much was it??

[h0ughy]

mine was $1137US - delivered - so use the AUD-US converter and work out the AUD cost. mine was around the $1240 mark AUD

[Astrod00d]

Mine was relaeased released from Customs on the 21st - just in time to get it sorted for the new moon :D

I look forward to testing the 127ED with the QHY8. Which DSO should I aim at first??

Cheers,

Rob

[[1ponders]]

Will someone puhleeeeaasse :prey: lock this thread. :sad:

[toyos]

Or you can take mine after a few weeks since I don't intend to spend too much time with those 'triplet semi apo's' :D :D

My orders should be shipped MUCH sooner (probably within a week, not 40 days if you know the trick of the trade).

[h0ughy]

the first one you see in clear skies:whistle:

[h0ughy]

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D:D :D :D :D :D :D :D:D :D :D :whistle:

[Astrolabe]

Hi Rob and congratulations to you and to all other owners of this new refractor.

I would like to look through it next time I see you at Linden. Most likely I will go up on Tuesday subject to weather conditions. I will give you a ring on Tueday afternoon in any case. I hope that the images you get with this refractor are as good if not better than the previous ones.

Best regards

George.

[JohnH]

More Test Images - Rigel Kentarus region. These are 4 full size crops from the corners of a shot taken with the 20D. I have only adjusted the levels to minimise the noise, I think some of the distortion I was seeing earlier might have been due to poor focus - the corners look pretty good to me :D...of course the clouds are back now to ruin my fun!

[miki63au]

Hello everyone,

I find the original prototype test:
http://www.astro-foren.de/showthread.php?t=9585 (http://www.astro-foren.de/showthread.php?t=9585)

I not understand German (and have trouble with Eanglish...:lol:)
but, what I understand is the triplet is ok on Red, but just 1/3 wave
on the green, where the eye is most sensitive.
Now this is a triplet, and I can't see any small shim to separate the elements to a proper gap in a air spaced design. Which mean, I guess
is the gap is made with plastic rings. So my theory is, the manufacturer
not spending the money, time to fine tune each assembly for best spherical
aberration at green. It's about luck what you get. I had a 5" achro before,
and play with it a lot, try to get the best correction with different gaps.
Well, unfortunately one of the surface had a zone, at 70% dia. Actually it was a different radius from there. It was impossible to optimize.
With the triplet it would be daunting task without proper gear to get the
right settings between the elements.
But after all it's still a good deal, especially for wide field photo.

[seeker372011]

There is a thread on this subject in Cloudy Nights-started by me, I'll admit :)-which has become quite heated but this specific issue is addressed. It is in fact suggested that the null point was delibrately set to colour correct better in red.

http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/2467133/page/0/view/collapsed/sb/5/o/all/fpart/1/vc/1

[JohnH]

Thanks seeker - your views are coincident with my results! This scope performs well if it is correctly focused. It really does seem critical - just inside focus mine will yield blue halos.

I noted your comments about an FR - you are suing the TV unit yes? I was thinking the WO MkIII would also be suitable (I think it is a lot cheaper!) but now I am not sure - it is 0.8 but a flattener as well, ant thoughts. Have you figured out the thread on the draw tube - none of my adapters fir and I prefer to have my camera screw mounted than use the push in?

I already own a Vixen 0.63 FR for my VC200L - that is a pure FR - do you think it would be useable? I guess I could just try it - if I could figure out how to mount it...

[Astrod00d]

The 127ED was delivered this morning, all parts are included and appear to be in good condition. :D
The carry handle on top of the rings is cast metal and has a lengthwise slot so I can mount a guide scope directly with little or no flexure.

First light on Tuesday if the sky is clear.

Cheers,

Rob

[Terry B]

I finally got a "proper" first light last night rather than daytime images.
I took 7 x 5 min exposures of the trifid and of eta carina.
They were taken using an unmodded 40D quided with my QHY guider and guidemaster. Flats, darks etc and processed in Iris. No deconvolution filters have been used just stacking and a asinh stretch.
So the outcome.
Visually the scope is wonderful. I can't see any false colour with a 10mm eyepiece. Through the camera it isn't quite the same. There is certainly a small voilet halo around the bluer stars.
I will try to deconvolve the blue channel to see if it is removeable.
The field is not quite flat.There is a small amount of smearing on the ouside of the frame but it isn't visible at the magnification of these images.
There is very little vignetting. I have posted a flat frame to demonstrate this.
How does it compare to my VC200L.
The psf of the stars is about the same but the VC200L has no halo. It does however have difraction spikes. Is this good or bad? I quite like them.
A similar eta taken with the VC200L is here (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=43773&d=1213246075).
The field of the 127mmAPO is much wider and the contrast visually is higher. I'm not sure if this extra contrast makes up for the lesser aperture. However there is no way I could ever afford a 200mm refractor so probably the comparison is unfair.
The only other scope I have to compare it to is my 120mm achromat guidescope. It has lots of false colour and is not a patch on the new scope.
I am very happy with the scope but it isn't perfect. It seems to be worth the money.

[Stephen65]

Some people like diffraction spikes, even to the extent of adding them using software if the scope doesn't have a spider, some people don't. I like them but I wouldn't bother adding them.

Very nice images with just a touch of violet halo.

[JohnH]

Nearly full moon messed this up rather but it is still only a test shot - 16*3 mins at iso 800 ICNR.

Terry, I find the blue halos are present if you are a little inside focus try racking out a 1/8 turn or so, should not mess up the FWHM. I have a VC200 as well and the APO is sharper and the colour correction as good (subject to focus being spot on) the there is a little SA in the corners - but a decent FR/Flattener should remove that. The contrast is better on Jupiter.

I had a second 10:1 focus knob set in my box, did everyone get this?

[Terry B]

Yes I have the same focuser. I must admit I found focusing difficult. I'm use to using the diffraction spikes as my focus aid. I will have to make a little wire cross to sit on the front of the scope instead.:)
My shots were taken before the moon rose last night so the sky was dark.

[h0ughy]

no

[miki63au]

Would you rate this apo better than a average "sct" on the planets, and the moon?
I know it's not a TAK, but the contrast should be better than a sct. Is it?

[Terry B]

Sorry I didn't read the post correctly. I didn't have a second focus knob.
I also took some images after the moon rose using an ST7 through filters rather than the single shot 40D of M83.
I only took single 5 min exposures through each colour and 2x 5 min lum frames. The blue halos are not present in this image although it is a pretty crap image due to the short exposures.

[AlexN]

nice shot for 25mins of data.. shows what the scope is capable of.

[seeker372011]

Phew , thats good to know. Its what Tom at Cloudy Nights also said...careful focusing can eliminate the halos.

[Weatherman]

Hello!

Here is my new Meade 127EDT APO with Telrad base..... :)

Greatings from Slovenia (Europe)!



Weatherman

[h0ughy]

is that a brand name i see?:D

[h0ughy]

that is good to know, I did notice this go in the eyepiece when mucking about with it. But I couldnt replicate it with the camera (thats when the software played up so did it by eye.).:help:

[allan gould]

Now fitted with "Meade" knobs a la the 80mm and actually branded as a Meade. Well spotted David.

[Astrod00d]

First light with the 127mm ED on my EQ6.

Do not mount the 127ED direct to an EQ6. The dovetail bar supplied with my 127ED is a cast item and the dovetail section is too short to fit correctly in the EQ6. It'll go in, but will not be properly secured. Fortunately I tested this before I mounted the tube in the rings. Subsequently I had to mount the 127ED in the side-by-side set-up intended for my ED80. I'll replace the dovetail bar with an off the shelf 8" bar and it'll be fine.

The focuser will not lift a 35mm Panoptic. It doesn't slip, but it needs assistance when going uphill. Smaller eyepieces are fine.

Seeing was only 5/10 and some high cloud started to move in around 9pm. Transparency varied 3/10 to 7/10.
The evening was too windy for imaging but we had a great night of observing.

The views through the 127ED using a 35mm Panoptic were stunning to say the least. I'll say it again, stunning!
The Carina region was bright, sharp and contrasty. The Lagoon and Trifid fitted into the same field and were a sight to behold.
Omega Centauri was resolved to the core, the effect was 3-dimensional.
Small globulars were shown in good detail at higher magnification (10mm Radian).
I didn't notice false colour on bright stars.
Jupiter showed up well through the haze, some banding could be seen but the seeing let us down before we reached the resolution limit of the 127ED.

It's true the 127mm ED is not in the same class, at least mechanically, as a TAK or Televue. Optically it's great. I think it's the best value for money in a 'large' ED refractor available today. Is this an indication of what will the future bring? If so, the future looks bright...

I can't wait for a clear night. The 127ED should be a great imaging scope.

Cheers,

Rob

[h0ughy]

Rob i had no problems mounting the scope to the EQ6. sure the bar is short, but it is manageable and mounted securely:shrug:.

I have not tried a heavy eyepiece yet, might have a go with a 34mm meade 2" ultrawide?

[allan gould]

Had NO problems mounting mine at all and find with 2" LVW eyepieces or a Canon20d no problem with the focusser. Make sure you use the proper tensioning screw for the eyepiece or camera. I think there must be some variability with the scopes in relation to what is attached to them. I know that my finderscope is completely different to those that are being shipped at the moment. Any possibility of a photo to illustrate what you mean? I notice in weatherman's photos that there is a completely differnt bar arrangement for attaching the finderscope.

[Terry B]

I did have a problem with the dovetail and it flipped out of the mount. Fortunately no damage was done. I then looked closely at the dovetail. You have to centre it carefully in on the mount as it has only about 1cm of movement up or down before it loses it's grip.

On a better note I took more pics last night. I focussed carefully and "NO PURPLE HALO.
The pics are of M16 taken with an unmodded 40D. 7x 5 mins, darks, flats etc processed with Iris.
The bigger image is full frame at 50x80arcmins. The smaller one is a crop from the centre.

[Astrod00d]

hOughy posted this photo of the rings and dovetail in another thread,
http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=43973&d=1213674777

See how the dovetail section is recessed, with a square section at each end. This recessed section is shorter than the EQ6 dovetail foot, so the dovetail is spaced off the EQ6 dovetail recess. Because of this offset, the dovetail bolts on my EQ6 'only just' contact the lower edge of this dovetail section. If I tighten the mount bolts and then give the rings a hard push, the dovetail lets go.

Looks like a clear night tonight. I'll try to take some shots to demonstrate what I'm talking about here.

[allan gould]

Nice photos but you may have to look carefully at how your camera is going into the focusser. It appears that on the left hand side of your full-frame shot there is slight elongation of stars which is absent on the right hand side. Excellent that you have no blue halo therefore good correction

[allan gould]

Mine is dovetail all the way down.

[Terry B]

Not sure about this. The camera is connected using a 2" adapter directly in the focuser. I can't see how I could change it's tilt. In the raw images there is some smearing on the right hand side also but it isn't quite even. Some must be non flat field and some might be a tilted camera. I will have to experiment.

[allan gould]

As you tighten up the 2" adapter into the focusser have a very careful look at the spacing between them. As its tightened it can go off axis very slightly and mess with the field flatness.
I overcame this by changing the 2" adapter to a WO band.

[g__day]

Out of curiosity - are these the ProStar 127mm Triplets that MyAstroShop sell for around $2,900?

http://www.myastroshop.com.au/guides/prostar-gp2.htm

They certainly look the same to me - I wonder if Steve is getting ripped off on the buy price?

[JohnH]

Allan, does this mean you have identified the thread on the draw tube and found something that fits?? I have a WO66 SD and the 2" adapter for that - but it does not fit on the 127 ?

[JohnH]

I think so yes, they are also at Astro Optical for the same amount. They do claim to have individual optical reports for their scopes and the one I saw had a different finder (erect image) to the one I have.

[Astrod00d]

I believe the draw tube thread is 58mm. A 58mm camera filter spins straight onto it.
Now all I need is a 58mm to T-thread adapter... Could I use an off the shelf 58mm to 42mm filter adapter or does the T-thread have a different pitch to a 42mm camera filter?

Cheers,

Rob