GSO RC update

[KenGee]

AS we all know the GSO website has jad ;ittle info on their RC telescopes I emailed them and got this reply.

Hi Kenny,

We received your query from Guan Sheng about the new RC telescopes.
We have ordered 6" and 8" OTA (mainly 8") as these will be available first. I expect these to ship around the beginning of July (possibly earlier).
The specifications so far look very impressive. We are running an ad in the next edition of Australian Sky & Telescope outlining the specs.
At this stage price is likely to be just below $3000 for an 8" scope and around $1600 for the 6". We are expecting much greater demand for the 8" as it wil have quartz glass blanks and carbon fibre OTA.
You are sure to hear more as delivery gets closer! We are happy to accept pre-orders for the telescopes now. No need to pay a deposit but you will be assured of a telescope from the first shipment.

Thanks for your enquiry,

Michael Chaytor
The Binocular & Telescope Shop

I have decided to go for the star instruments version myself. But the taking orders people, we will expect a review;)

[netwolf]

So 1200 from the US for a 6" and 1600 from our local guys. And I am sure the US supplier has a profit margin added on this. Surely the prices should be about the same given the source is GSO. I would consider the 6" as its more affordable. The 8" is a big jump in price for extra 2".

[wavelandscott]

Be careful on a direct comparison on the estimated price at this time...as was mentioned these have not even shipped yet and so I am certain that the cost estimate is just that an estimate...

There can be and are some differences in shipping costs between countries and depending on the size of the object and order quantity significant costs differences can occur on a per unit basis (depending on how many can fit into a container).

Also remember that our local Australian price will also include GST a component that the US quoted price will not have...and as it is over AUD$1,000 importing it will attract GST and custom charges and shipping...by my quick and dirty back of the bar napkin estimate the difference does not look too big at all...

But I think it is premature to get into a discussion on price based on this early cost estimate...

[KenGee]

My take is buy local whenever you can. I have found and made good use of local dealer advice , Whilest this was freely given we should not believe that it can be supplied for free. If you get my drift. Some times we have no option then to buy direct or from an OS dealer, other times it's cost. Be sure to do your sums, the local dealer maybe more cost effective then it appears at first glance.:thumbsup:

[TrevorW]

Guys refer my thread on this

[Merlin66]

Netwolf,
The "extra 2" ", are worth the difference when you consider the light gathering power and resolution. An 8" mirror has almost 180% more area than a 6", and I'm sure the specs will be a bit more up market..

[netwolf]

Scott, fair points you make. But as far as i know the GST is the only applicable tax on Telescopes. Duty does not apply on Telescope optics and mounts. I would agree that due to ad different market size the price in Aus may be more to cover overheads.

[Starkler]

$1600 is serious coin for a 6" scope :scared:

I believe RC scopes are preferred for astrophotography, but how much better results would you expect compared to say a 6" f5 newt + coma corrector?

[Zuts]

The 6 inch newt only has a FL of 750ml so you are limited to wide field, RC's have a much longer FL which is one of the points of using them. So i dont think there is any comparison.

Unfortunately 1600 AUD is cheap for a good imaging scope, A good 4 inch refractor is well over twice that amount, a good 6 inch refractor is well over 10,000 AUD.

Paul

[wavelandscott]

While I am not certain, I think there might be a customs clearance charge depending on method of shipment and company that clears it that fee could be different...this is different than "duty"...but I might be wrong...

Regardless, I won't be buying one either way...:D

[Prickly]

$3000 for an 8 inch. Nice try. Why not buy a VMC200L and be done with it or even go for more aperture with a C9.25 carbon fibre?

It would have to be about half that price for me to consider it, but others might pay that for an RC perhaps.

Be interesting to compare the prices to the US ones ?astronomics (which from memory had fancy focussers etc.) adjusting for the dollar.

Should be similar to ship from Taiwan to US or Australia ?cheaper in Australia I might have thought.

Cheers
David

[Zuts]

I may be wrong, but an RC is coma free, a C9.25 is not, additionally an RC will cover a 35mm sensor but a c9.25 and VC 200L wont. It's all about image quality, if you want the best then you probably need to get an RC. I have a TV 85 and it's a great scope but it's widefield and a whole different ballpark from even a 6 inch RC.

Paul

[garymck]

RC is coma free, but also has a markedly curved focal plane that will need a flattener of some sort, a VC200L has 15 micron stars over a 45mm diameter circle, and has a flat field, and costs 30% less, why bother with the RC - just because it's an RC????;)

cheers
Gary

[Prickly]

Hi Paul,

You are right of course and more or less my point. Some people pay the extra for an RC which may (should) have slightly better optics (corrected) but the degree of difference from a VMC200L, an outstanding instrument, would to me seem minimal. Looking at photos from the VMC200Ls which are well tested out there (plenty of shots to look at and good QC) you might well be inclined to ask the question.

Factor in also that the GSO RCs are virtually unknown on the market as yet. Would you be the first when you could have a VMC200L instead?

Perfectly right about the 9.25 inch - but they are a really nice scope nonetheless and carbon fibre (my point here was more aperture and still a very good imaging scope). I could certainly be very happy living with one of them too.

Cheers
David

[netwolf]

The VMC200L is listed at 1295USD. Whihc is what the RC 6" is priced at in the US. 2" more apperture for the same price.
But the VC200L is 1899 still better priced than the 8" RC. Question is then down to Optical quality. I think Vixen would probably make better optics than GSO.

[TrevorW]

You know the long awaited RC from GSO it's already being sold in the US under the name of Astro-tech a 6" for $1300US and an 8" for $3000US also a 80mm APO Triplet with graphite body can be purchased under the same brand name. Astronomics in the US are currently waiting on new stock. I've also asked Lee A to see if he can get them but he has no plans at this point in time so I was surprised to hear that Bintels offering them for sale unless Lee's holding out and will sell them at a better price. If you check Astronomics web site the spec's are impressive

Clear Skies

[[1ponders]]

The 10" has been advertised at f/9. Will the 6" and 8" be the same? Seems awfully slow for a DSO imaging scope no matter the quality. :shrug:

[JohnH]

There are a very high quality corrected newts out there see:

http://www.dreamscopes.com/pages/projects-04/newt-astro-list.htm

Or less extreme and since others have already mentioned Vixen the RSS200 with its custom corrector works well.

These scopes have the advantage of fast optics.

The VC200L (which I own) is slower at F9 but has a large flat field so it is suitable for large format sensors.

[netwolf]

Thinking futher on this, the Astronomics website lists the 6" at 1295 and 8" at 2995. The email quoted by the OP, indicates the 8" will be sold in Australia for a similar price, but the 6" is 300$ more. Now I understand these are not final prices but still why the 300$ difference on the 6" price. I know previously Scott mentioned this maybe dues to different market prices dues to size of market, and overheads. But the 8" price is indicated as being similar then why not the 6".
http://www.astronomics.com/main/category.asp/catalog_name/Astronomics/category_name/U5QNWB3RKWWL8N3EL99F9DX9A0/Page/1

Regards
Fahim

[netwolf]

For those interested here is the diffrences between the VC and VMC from Vixen.
http://www.astronomie.be/Tranquility.Base/vc200lpage.htm

[Tandum]

I notice the VMC is down to US$1099 from optcorp.
It's the model that comes bareboned, no flipmirror, finder etc.
http://www.optcorp.com/product.aspx?pid=1-600-624-1087-10683

[TrevorW]

I've always liked the bare bones look of the Vixen nothing fancy but what appears to be good optics at a reasonable price. All the reviews I've read tend to favour it over other SC's, it's my preference for an SC in the 8 - 10 " category when I get too buy one.

[Prickly]

In relation to the VC200L you can get a focal reducer I think that brings it back to around f6 which is not too shabby.

Also as for vixen having better optics - they seem to meet their specs which is perhaps more of a QA thing. I had read elsewhere that some of the optics is now being made in China but the QC checked. I suppose good optics are good optics whereever they are made. Had read a rumour that GSO produce the lightbridge mirrors. (wonder who makes the Meade RC mirrors?).

The GSO optics Ive seen have been great but theres more to a telescope than just that too. They would have be absolutely excellent for 3K. but there are also many other excellent options.

Cheers
David

[Zuts]

Hi,

I am now thinking the GSO 8 inch RC is not the same as the Astro Tech one as it is far too expensive.

For 3,000 USD you can get a Takahashi Mewlon 210, at least as good and probably better than the Vixen.

So price wise with Vixens and Mewlons costing the same or less the 3000 USD GSO would have a hard time competing. If Takahashi can make and sell an 8 inch Mewlon for 3000 USD then GSO can make and sell an 8 inch RC for less than 1500 USD.

Paul

[madtuna]

I LOVE my VC200L... with the reducer it makes for a brilliant imaging scope, it's just me that lets her down....I think I'll name her Princess!

[Satchmo]

The Takahashi Mewlon is a Dall Kirkham design ( 4 X the Coma of even a Classical Cassegrain) which uses a prolate elipsoid shaped primary and a spherical secondary mirror. The elipsoid primary would be twice as easy to make as the hyperbolic primary and secondary of a true Ritchey Chretion design .

[Zuts]

I know this, the point I am trying to make is that if Takahashi can make and sell an 8 inch very high quality folded design with takahashi class fit and finish for 3000 USD then GSO should be able to do far better than 3000 USD, so I will wait until the GSO is released as a GSO before I will beleive the current guessed at price.

Paul

[netwolf]

I have seen two used Mewlon 180's on Opt for 2295$, these i belive are not made anymore. The Vixen's optics according to there HK dealer are made in Japan, only the samller VMC's are made in China but checked for QA by Japan. The 8" and larger VMC and VC's are made in Japan. Though the wave number for these is not know, I would guess better than 1/8 given its made in Japan. There are some nice Japanese scopes out there to chose from that is for sure. VMC, VC from Vixen and then Tak have the Epsilon's, Mewlons, CN, BRC etc etc. No Shortage of scopes. And given the current Yen to USD conversion is the lowest in years its a good time to buy Japan optics. The Japanese are pretty big on QA and so even a a Chinese optic passed via Japan would be better.

Regards
Fahim

[TrevorW]

Do we really know where the optics are being made. Sony for many years was made in Japan and enjoyed a reputation for quality then they went offshore but people still assume they are made in Japan, nowdays Samsung is my preferred electronic goods supplier. At the end of the day it all boils down too the manufacturing and QC take WO for example made in Taiwan.

[Prickly]

Im very impressed with my chinese NA140SSf vixen refractor. Ive read that the "f" on the models means that the optics are made in China and QA checked in Japan. Photographically its very sharp across the frame, as it is supposed to be. Im sure the VC200Ls / VMCs etc would be the same and the images they produce attests to that.

I wouldnt be too worried where things are made but more about the overall QA, specs and consistency of the products. I've never looked through a bad vixen.

Cheers
David

[robgreaves]

The only thing to bear in mind with the VC-200L is the VISAC optical coatings form the figure of the mirror.

When the coatings go bad, you have to send the mirror back to Vixen to have it coated and figured.

Normal aluminising won't produce the figure on the mirror.

I've had a VC-200 before, and yes, big imaging circle for big chips :)

Regards,
Rob

[gregbradley]

It really comes down to long focal length versus short focal length in the above comparison.


An F5 Newt has mirrors that are easy to make so the quality would likely be higher even if much cheaper. But it will be widefield and forget imaging galaxies or small objects. But you'd image widefield at F5 really quickly if you setup each time as opposed to F9 which is slow and requires several hours for each image to get a decent image.

Fast Newtonians seem to be quite popular and rightly so. They can offer sharp optics and fast speeds but the cost is perhaps a bit fussier in collimation and only able to do wide field.

I think it works backwards. Work out what type of image you want to produce and then the scope and camera combo comes from that.

No scope is perfect for every application no matter what brand or cost.

Greg.

[Satchmo]

Wouldn't adding a 1.6X-2X 2" barlow lens to the F5 Newtonian achieve the same focal ratio as the RC and be essentially coma free over a 35mm frame ?

Mark

[gregbradley]

The only barlow I am aware of that gives coma free over 35mm film size is the Baader flatfield fluorite converter (FFC). It is quite expensive with all the adapters (about US$1000 from AstroPhysics). Also I don't know if you can combine a coma corrector and a barlow - perhaps you can. Its becoming a lot of glass though if you can (I doubt it - you generally can't use a reducer and a flattener together with refractors).

Other smaller barlows will vignette/ give coma and eggy stars in the corners. You may be able to get away with it with a small chipped camera but DSLR sized chips and above probably not. You can always crop the image though and it may not be too bad depending on the barlow (Peter Wards recent Eta C had some star elongation in the corners from the AP barcon/STL11 (an AP barlow) but it wasn't too bad. The Baader though goes up to 8X and I believe no eggy corner stars in a 35mm film sized chip.

Its not really practical to make one scope all things and hence the approach of having a few different scopes specialised for wide field, narrowfield etc.

[Merlin66]

That's not the case.
Klee, back in the 80's designed his Barlows and Petoria eyepieces specifically for fast newtonians, to provide corrections.
It was well detailled in a copy of the ATM magazine of the time ( my copy is still in storage somewhere in Oz!)
I use the Klee x2.2 and x2.8 barlows and find they do a creditable job.
I also used the 28mm Pretoria for a while on the 18" f4.5, I think it beat the a**** of the Nagler!!
It would be well worth the effort to trial a Klee Barlow on your system.

[netwolf]

How does the VC200L compare in Field Flatness to a C9.25? As i understand it the C9.25 was made a bit diffrent to the C8 and C11 to cater for DSO imaging. Also the C9 would not suffer from the thick vanes as the VC200 does.
It was mentioned that VC needs to be sent back to manufacturer for recoating of mirrors. Is this not also true for SCT Mirrors or RC Mirrrors?

[Zaps]

I'm really looking forward to seeing the first results and reviews of these new Chinese made RC scopes.

Hopefully the Chinese and Taiwanese can do for RCs what they did for refractors: make them excellent quality - competitive with the flash brands - while keeping them affordably inexpensive, as well as readily available.

The fact that there's clearly a ready market for good quality and inexpensive RCs suggests that outfits like GSO and Synta will rush to meet it, the same way they have the other segments of the amateur astronomical market. How can that not be win-win for us?

[Gama]

You left out the CDK scopes as well. Basically any laser aligned main mirror will need to back to mama's house for recoating !.

Theo

[gregbradley]

That's interesting. Where do you get them from?

Greg.

[netwolf]

Greg, I think Frontier optics cary these.

Theo thanks, I thought so I am guessing we should also add KC to the list.

[gregbradley]

Thanks Fahim.

Greg.