Neighbourhood Light pollution - what rights do we have ?

[Ian Robinson]

Seems in NSW , you can stop noise pollution, you can stop people burning off (generating smoke) , you can stop people from pollution the water , but we have no rights to stop intrusive light pollution and light trespass caused by neigbours who refuse to behave reasonably.

See ; http://www.asv.org.au/lpoll/lp181a.pdf

It is simply not good enough that if you have a neighbour who is by his external house lighting causing intrusive light pollution and excessive light trespass onto you property , that you can do nothing (legal) about it if the neighbour is uncooperative.

I've asked my local council for help , they said they have no authority to stop this and so can't help me.

Does anyone know of any NSW state government regulations or laws that can be applied to stop my nutty neighbour from leaving his very bright external houselights (which are unidirectional - just high wattage high intensity compact fluorescent globe) ? on all night every single night and who in the NSW government I should contact about this to make a formal complaignt ?

[cpoc]

no way you could just erect a "reflector" on your side of the fence to bounce the light directly back at them?

[snowyskiesau]

There doesn't seem to be any state legislation on this point.
It appears it's considered a local council issue.

I did a quick browse of some local council websites and any mention of nuisance lighting was restricted to commercial premises, advertising and, in some cases, street lighting.
There was no mention of how to deal with residential nuisance lighting.

Perhaps the only way to resolve this is to run for local council :D

[Ian Robinson]

Might come to that ....

[CoombellKid]

Move to the bush, where such pollution is non-existant. Plus the fact that
most of your nieghbors will more than likely be farmers and are in bed lights
out by 8pm :thumbsup:

Hope you get it worked out, perhaps on your side you could extend the
height of the fence and grow a vine of sorts.

regards,CS

[Starkler]

Wouldnt it be nice. A place in the bush with lovely dark skies, easy access to a quality trout stream, and a reasonably short drive to a satisfying job in the technology sector.

I'm dreaming again...

[Ian Robinson]

Better still .... a nice place in the bush somewhere in a small regional town that is always warm , is close to a tropical river or two with coral reefs not far out , and a short commute to work in a very senior engineering role at a big plant (far enough away that the sky is dark and unpolluted at home).

Working on it .... chasing the tree change , dark skies , great fishing , adventure and the BIG $s.

[Zuts]

Hi,

Like any citizen you are free to sue him. Probably a bad idea but it's free for an initial consultation with a lawyer.

Paul

[proudy]

Ian,

I invited my neighbours over to have a look thru my scope. They were stoked and they hardly ever leave their garage lights on any more. Maybe diplomacy might work.

[schrodingersCat]

What a delightful way of dealing with the situation!

I think that the biggest problem is ignorance. Id say 99% of people dont even know that light IS a form of pollution. Possibly there is a need for public awareness of this. I think that a great number of people would be extremely fascinated by Astronomy, its just that they dont know anything about it, and dont have access to it.

I dont think there is enough public awareness out there and possibly it is up to those who are passionate about it to share this with the public and make it accessable.

If more people knew about public viewing nights and everyone got a chance to see the wonders of the universe for themselves, then with it would come an awareness and appreciation for problems faced, like light pollution.

Neighbors probably have no idea that their lights are a problem until they look at the sky for themselves. Most of the time I think they would be more than happy to turn their lights off, and even join in.


If astronomers ever decide to band together in protest against light pollution, the most effective way to do so would be to all set up in a public place and let everyone come and have a look! Im sure everyone would be happy and amazed and willing to help!

[Zuts]

Hi,

If you read through Ian's previous thread regards this you will find he has an AVO out against his neighbour, so in this particular case these suggestions are pretty useless.

Paul

[Ian Robinson]

Friday the 13th .

...... yep you guessed it.

The looney's back .... and has been back on the grog (and probably the dope and what ever else he uses) none stop since the taxi dropped him off at 5pm .... and that dambed light is back on. Grrrrrr!!!!!

What ever possessed the doctors at the looney bin to let him out (so soon).

Diplomacy never worked with him - he simply can't be reasoned with and has never honoured any agreements other than when threatened with legal action. I found that out the hard way when he agreed on helping with the demolition and erection of new bordering fence - he agreed with the cost I had worked out for materials (signed the estimate .... the other neighbours had forwarned me because he refused to pay when they put up a new bordering fence a few years beforehand and they took him to court over the costs).
He helped for about 30mins and then made himself scarce , and when I asked for his half (off him - I'd paid for everything) he kept on giving excuses until I told him I would not take any more excuses and wanted my money and to pay up or I'd see him in court and he could explain it to the magistrate .... he had a hissy fit , said the fencing job was rotten (great ....would have been better and the top cut straighter if he'd actually helped and had a clue about using basic tools which he didn't), and came back 20mins later and threw the money on ground and a load of verbal abuse at me. I wrote him off there and then (that was nearly 9 years ago).

Looks like plan B will have to be implimented.

If I spot him turning the lght on and looking through the window when my wife or I arrive home , I'll be on the phone to the cops and reporting him for stalking us , which is prohibited by the AVO. I'm now sure he is doing this to stalk and harass us, and so to keep tabs on everything we do in our yard at night and to take privacy away from us.

If I can convince the cops , it will cost him a lot of money and maybe see him imprisoned.

If I don't happen to catch him stalking us , I'll have the magistrate add the light issue to the extended AVO , or new AVO if I need one in September, and add an order to turn off the light at night after 9 pm unless the other neighbours beat me to the gun in their AVO. (The light shines straight into their living area and straight though their curtains and they are not happy campers either.)

[glenc]

We need one of these for light. Something to produce a shaft of darkness.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7450321.stm
Other researchers hope to build the holy grail of cloaking: an invisibility device that would channel light at wavelengths normally visible to the eye.

[Ian Robinson]

A disintegration device would be more useful.:mad2:

I have drafted this letter to the guy .... It's probably not going to make any difference , but who knows it might get the desired effect .
See attachment : what do you reckon , is it worth stuffing an edited copy into his letter box tomorrow night ?

[Alchemy]

watch this space...... my neighbours have 6 floodlights on most nights yeah thats right SIX FLOODLIGHTS so i have had enough i have gone out and brought 60 trees to screen them out

For those interested the trees are x Cupressocyparis leylandi..... Leighton green , they grow like they are on steroids to 10 metres high and thick dense foilage. it will obviously take a few years to come to full fruition .... but im here for a long time.

This weekend is planting time, i will take a pic or two and show you.

IMMM AS MAD AS HELL AND IM NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANY MORE...

[Ian Robinson]

Sounds almost as bad as my neighbour - they completely insane too ?

I'm nbt as patient as you are and if planted trees to block the light I would not be able to get my car into my yard or the garage. So trees are not an option for me unfortunately.

[Alchemy]

well im back, have tried to plant trees in the wet and damp conditions.... bout halfway there...... here is a pic as promised. my observatory in the background, the steel poles are 5m high these trees grow to 10 !!! ( i can trim as required for sky views as not native)

the neighbours just love their new house and want everyone else to admire it 24/7 so they light it up. well it will cost them some of their view, i tried being nice... i tried the (if you continue etc) they didnt listen so now thats it no arguing , no harsh words just .. goodbye trees trees trees.

[[1ponders]]

I honestly can't believe it Clive. By the looks of it you live in a fairly remote and beautiful looking part of the country. Why in hell would someone want to light up the countryside as they do so they can't enjoy the night sky??????? Why did they move there in the first place???????

[Ian Robinson]

Sound like they've more money than brains and are selfish self centred SOBs who don't give a toss about anyone else or the impact of there actions on anyone else.

What is wrong with people these days ?:shrug:


Just went down to the garage to get into the car and go to the shops to get something my wife needed for our roast tonight (it's freezing out there tonight !!!! brrrrrr...a nice roasted roll of turkey breast meat , and baked veges and a nice wine and herb sause (needed the sause) is just what the doctor ordered tonight I think .... good night stay close to the reverse cycle airconditioner and to diog out some old VCRs .... not anything worth watching on the box until late when there are some horrors on one of the channels). His back light was actually off but he turned it on immediately I opened my back door and was on by the time I reached the car ., and I'm sure I saw him looking through his laundry window (dark in there)... if that's not stalking ... what is it ?

[Alchemy]

paul its just one of those things, we live on a hill overlooking the yarra valley, all acreage of some sort, because it is dark perhaps and then their house lit up on the top of the hill just seems to do it for them ....go figure. its probably a look at me attitude. suffice to say they have no interest in astronomy. He is a carpenter of sorts, built a fair bit of it himself....pretty dodgy i wouldnt want it, i suspect they will stay for a year or two and move on ( people often do that to make a tax free quid) either way all the lights are there and ive had enough. i have built a movable screen i can lift up when i image, but even just having bright lights shining in the bedroom at night....
oh well i have the solution and its final.

i might go and take a shot when shes lit up a beaut to show you what its like, i think they are out at the moment so its not quite lunar park just yet.

[Outbackmanyep]

If you're talking common sense then the UNE in Armidale is lacking it in the light pollution department! They are one of the biggest polluters near the Kirby Observatory (Armidale Observatory), the main culprits being the carpark lighting! We are working on that though!

[AstralTraveller]

Uni of Wollongong is no better, though there is no observatory here. [Having an observatory in Wollongong would demonstrate a level of stupidity beyond the ken of mortal men.] Someone 'very high up' in the Uni admin has a liking for outdoor lights which are like spheres on poles with a globe in the middle. No light shield whatsoever. Simple geometry shows the the upper 50% of the light is wasted. Add to that the light which shines down at a shallow angle which probably isn't useful and the amount that hits the top of the mount and is bounced back up and I reckon 70% of the light is wasted. Of course light => electricity => coal => CO2. This is from a 'higher' institution which likes to flaunt it's green credentials, and has even won awards. Warnie has nothing on the spin they generate down here!:nerd:

[paninaro]

The simplest answers are often the best.

[Kal]

There was a new house built down my street earlier this year, and the amount of lights on the outside of the house is absolutely rediculous. It is a two storey house, with a balcony area at the front on the second level, which has about 6 strong lights (already overkill), but the amazing thing to me is that he has installed down lights the entire way around the roof awning at about 1.5 metre seperation. Theres downlights at the front, and down the sides (I can't see the back of the house). WTH do you need to light up the side of your house for when there is nothing there?? All up I would guess that he has about 25 seperate external lights underneath the roof awning on the second level of the house!

[Alchemy]

sounds like you live in the same street as me ...... ooops sorry my next door neighbour has eight floodlights not six.

[glenc]

There will be a flood of LED lights soon.
If it's done right it will be good for astronomy, if it is done badly we will suffer forever after.

"An Australian company has shone a light on technology that makes light emitting diodes drastically cheaper.
And in doing so brightens its prospects in a $US100 billion global market for illumination.
Semiconductor manufacturer BluGlass Ltd says it has developed a cheaper process that cuts the cost of making light emitting diodes, or LEDs, by almost half..."
http://news.smh.com.au/business/let-there-be-gallium-nitride-lite-20080718-3hb4.html