Oh MY! - Is that a GRS I see? With my crappy setup?

[Screwdriverone]

Ummm, Hi,

I was tooling around out the front last night while my family and I were entertaining in front of a campfire with the neighbours and I was showing said neighbours some views of Eta Carinae and Saturn etc.

Well, they had to go to bed before Jupiter really got high in the sky and at about 11:00pm I thought I might have another go at capturing some data.

All up I took about 7 or 8 AVI's and the best two I have run through the wringer, the first effort processed over 4422 frames!

I have attached the first run's pics (3 different processing of the same avi) to see what you think. Considering the crappy seeing and the intermittent clouds, I think they are my best yet!

Please feel free to comment and or reprocess if you like as I am still playing around with the colours as this one started out a little green.

The main thing I noticed is the appearance in the photo of what seems to be the GRS??? :eyepop: Is this right?

Not bad for a point and shoot 7MP Pentax on an afocal adaptor through a 5 inch scope?? AND from the FRONT Yard with street lights and an 85% waxing moon? Whats going on?

Thanks for stopping by!

Cheers

Chris

[netwolf]

A very good start much better than my first efforts.

[AlexN]

Nice Shots!

Though the 1st ones scale is somewhat smaller than the other 2, The detail is great.

[Screwdriverone]

Thanks Netwolf and Alex.

I was fiddling around in Gimp with the sharpening and the sizing of these three shots so they all wont be the same, even though they came from the same AVI.

I checked Astronomy 2008 and the GRS time was 23:19 for Sydney last night, and the avi was captured at 23:50 so this seems like its correct.

Woohoo, my first GRS. :D:D

Chris

[edwardsdj]

Hi Chris,

Amazing afocal results. You've definately captured the GRS in these images.

You can probably get better results with this setup if you can improve the image scale.

I'd love to know a bit more about your technique:

What frame rate are you getting from your camera?
How many frames did you stack?
Did you use Registax?
Did you apply wavelet processing in Registax?
What eyepiece did you use?
Do you have a barlow?
What enhancement features did you use in GIMP?

Sorry to ask so many questions.

Have fun,
Doug

[Screwdriverone]

Hi Doug,

Thanks for the comments, in answer to the questions;

What frame rate are you getting from your camera?
30fps - Divx codec in the camera

How many frames did you stack?
4422 - yes its a lot, but I let it do its thing

Did you use Registax?
Sure did, dont leave home without it.

Did you apply wavelet processing in Registax?
Used Mike's "mild" settings from his guide

What eyepiece did you use?
10mm 68deg wide angle on 2.5x APO Barlow

Do you have a barlow?
Yeah, 2.5x APO from Andrews, its in my signature

What enhancement features did you use in GIMP?
Sharpen Only, to about 85%

Thanks again for the kind words.

Cheers

Chris

[netwolf]

Chris,

I think you certainly have shown that you have the processing skills Now you have to maximize the quality of the data you can capture with the equipment you have.

Divx is going to hamper you getting more detail, as it is a lossy compression codec. Can your camera do any other formats? Another option thoug a bit of a workaround is to use the AV out of your camera and feed it through a video capture card or usb frame grabber or similar and capture to a avi on the PC uncompressed or as a sequence of bitmaps. My Canon A610 will generally output the live view signal to the AV Output, i think your camera can do this.

Another way is some cameras can pass live view over usb, you need to generally install a driver for this when you connect the camera. This like letting the camera become a Webcam. But this will usualy chew batteries up so you may want to go for rechargeable or even better AC Power adapter. The Optio E10 supports this webcam mode so possibly your Optio S7 may do the same. You could test this on XP with Windows Movie maker and see if it can live capture from your camera when connected. AVcapture would also work. As long as the Optio S7 is recognised by your system and there is WDM or VFW driver loaded for it.

But the best bet is to invest in a toucam SPC900 or if budget allows a DMK camera. Your camera may not be as sensitive but it should do a great job on the Moon given its brightness.

Still if you look at Mike he started with similar setup to you on a Dob and worked his way up and look what he is producing. So there is some thing to be said about mastering the processing and working with what you have.

:thumbsup:

Regards
Fahim

[iceman]

Nice one! You need to align the RGB channels and the GRS will stand out even more!

[edwardsdj]

Hi Chris,

Thanks for the information. This really helps others gain an understanding of your technique.

Fahim and Mike have good advice. Less compression would be good. On my webcam you can achieve this by reducing the frame rate to 10fps and using a better codec. You can do the RGB alignment in Registax. As Mike is saying, RGB alignment makes a significant difference.

Looks like you're getting about as much image scale as you can with the afocal setup. It's not expensive to dabble in prime focus. You already have a barlow and the SPC900NC webcam cost me $89 around Christmas time. You also need a Mogg adapter for around $40 to rigidly mount the cam to the telescope.

The SPC900NC + Mogg adapter is a low cost and very versatile setup.

Anyway, I'd be very excited if those were my first images. Great result given your equipment.

Have fun,
Doug

[Matty P]

Great results Chris.

You must be very happy with that. You should definitely invest in a webcam.

Well done. :thumbsup:

[Screwdriverone]

Thanks Matt, Yes I am very happy with what I got on the night considering the poor conditions. Just means that I wont be too harsh on conditions in the future.



Thanks Doug, I have been contemplating a webcam, where can you get a Philips SPC900NC for that price? I can only find them for about $145+



Hi Mike, thanks, I did try to align the channels in Registax but it didnt seem to work. I am splitting the avi into RGB channels and processing them separately to see if this helps. Is there any particular trick to it or is it as simple as drawing the alignment area around the image and pressing "estimate" and then adjusting using the numbers so it all goes to zero? Please correct me if this is wrong.



Thanks for the tips Fahim, I have to admit that I am seriously thinking of turning the place upside down first to find the CCD logitech webcam I used to have and pulling it apart to test with. It may be easier and better to get a webcam more suited to it tho.

Thanks again for everyone's comments and help, I feel myself sliding down that slippery slope now!\

Cheers

Chris

[iceman]

If you're processing the channels independantly, then re-aligning in registax won't have any effect on a greyscale image.
You'll need to align the channels when you recombine them into an RGB image.

I'll have a play tomorrow when I get a chance.

[Screwdriverone]

Thanks Mike, it will be interesting to see the results.

Chris

[netwolf]

Chris, If you have the logitech you could try with that. I know Gary Honis has modded and tested two Logitech camera's that showed very good results.
http://ghonis2.ho8.com/fusiontest4.html
http://ghonis2.ho8.com/Pro9000a.html

Regards
Fahim

[edwardsdj]

I got mine at MSY: www.msy.com.au (http://www.msy.com.au)

They do have stores in NSW. I found the 900NC on thier price list just then for $83. I phoned a store in Brisbane to confirm they had it in stock and when I arrived they pulled it off the shelf for me :)

As I say, you also need the Mogg adapter: www.moggadapters.com.au (http://www.moggadapters.com.au)

Just checked adapter price: $32 + $9 shipping

So total cost if you can easily get to an MSY store with one in stock would be: $83 + $32 + 9 = $124.

As Mike said, if you are processing RGB separately, Registax wont help with the RGB alignment. In fact, make sure you turn off the "Color" checkbox on the first screen in Registax.

You do the RGB alignment in GIMP with the "Move" tool to adjust each of the colour layers. You can use the arrows on the keyboard to get each colour lined up as best you can.

Have fun,
Doug

[iceman]

hmm not much I can do there - the colour channels were lined up ok but the green channel is much smaller - perhaps from your efforts of reducing the green.

For a first up capture, you've done well. Keep at it!

[Screwdriverone]

Hi Guys,

Mike, thanks for having a look at it, I am not going to worry too much at this stage, perhaps I will fiddle with it later.

Doug and Fahim, after digging it out I found my OLD Logitech Express Webcam which I think only has a crappy CMOS sensor and from memory has really bad low light performance so this may be a dead end.

I did however find the Pentax Video RCA cable that came with it and tested that by plugging it into my video DVB-T TV card in my PC and "streaming" the video from the camera straight to the home PC.
This allowed me to use the Pentax as a live video stream and capture directly in the Compro DTV application as an AVI or MPEG with absolutely NO compression on the codec (massive file though).

I am going to rig up a long RCA cable from my office to the telescope as I have no laptop and then do some testing with the scope outside the office window and see if I can capture some loss free pictures to the hard disk and then spend some time processing and will keep you posted.

The trade off with the webcam idea is that I dont currently have a suitable laptop and while I would easily purchase a $500 one and a webcam etc for $150 ish, I could just as easily buy a $650 Canon Eos body and do it all with that I suppose with a lot less stuffing around.

Add to that the budget limitations at the moment, then I will keep fiddling with the less than ideal gear that I have and see what I can get from it.

Thanks again for the tips and your time explaining things to me, sooner or later I will exhaust the limited technology and then find myself trundling to the shops with a list of bits to buy, no doubt!

Cheers

Chris

[netwolf]

DSLR while good for DSO imaging are not really as suitable for Planet imaging.

You can do moon shots with it. But the whole idea of planet imaging is using stacking of many frames to reduce the effect of seeing and atmospherics, by catching that odd good frame. You could do this with a DSLR but you would be severely reducing your shutters life time.

Make sure with your DVB-T card that you select a lossless format.

Regards
Fahim

[Screwdriverone]

Ahh see thats why I love this site.

Thanks Fahim, your comments have made me eliminate the need for a DSLR option. I have been pondering that for a while simply because of the convenience, but if the planets are not suitable for DSLR, then I may as well save the money or put it towards a Laptop and a good webcam.

Cheers

Chris

[Screwdriverone]

Hi Again,

I have been having a play around in Registax and Gimp and think I have squeezed as much as I can from this image.

Have a look and see what you think please.

I won't be crushed, honest!

Chris