New telescope for $500-$600

[Peter Kalan]

Hi, I’m looking at spending $500-600 on a new scope. I already have a 10inch GSO dob, so am looking for something that’s more portable. Any suggestions would be most welcome.

At the moment I’m tossing up between the following refractors from andrews. Any suggestions would be most welcome.


Skywatcher 102 x 1000 EQ3
$599.00 AUD

and

120 x 600mm OTA + AZ3...A$499



Thanks

[Karls48]

Hi Peter, I have purchased Sky-Watcher 120x600mm OTA from Andrews last week. I’m using it for wide field imagining mainly and for this application I’m quite happy with it. With GSO 25mm eyepiece looking on the moon there is bit of yellow fringing around if you keep your eye right in the centre of the eyepiece. If you move your eye of centre, the fringing around the moon becomes quite pronounced yellow violet. Looking on Sirius I could see bluish fringing around. With other stars of lesser magnitude I couldn’t see any CA. The scope is well made and the focuser is reasonably smooth for R&P focuser. For its price I recon it is good telescope.
Image of Procyon taken with Star-Watcher 120x600 and GStar with IR filter.

[Screwdriverone]

Hi Peter,

In the price bracket from Andrews and from what I have seen and heard here on IIS from people, I think this is a steal!

ED80 x 600 with AZ3...A$549

Its a Skywatcher ED 80mm with the AZ3 mount right in the middle of what you want to spend...I dont think you can go wrong with an ED refractor at this price.

Cheers

Chris

[[1ponders]]

Peter I have the Celestron version of the 102 on EQ3. The scope and optics themselves are fairly good, the focuser is a bit ...Mehh...elcheapo R&P, but it does the job as long as you don't swing anything too heavy off it. The EQ3 mount itself is fine, you can even add an RA motor to it easily and that makes a bit difference.

The tripod though will let you down. Its not really strong enough for the weight and you will find it frustrating at times waiting for the vibrations to damp down, especially at higher magnifications. Also you have to sit on the ground when looking at the zenith (well I suppose you will have to do that with most refractors :lol: ).

All things considered, I paid the better part of $1000 plus (wasn't happy when I found out the normal price :mad2: ) for mine 4 years ago so your getting a pretty good price for this one.

[[1ponders]]

BTW the WO 10:1 synta replacement crayford focuser fits straight into it, as does the standard ED80 crayford style focuser so if you want to upgrade your focuser then it's easy enough to do. But then you might as well by a more expensive scope that already has a crayford installed ;)

[Starkler]

In this price bracket I couldn't in good conscience recommend anything other than a smaller dob.

The az3 mount doesnt have its axis of rotation at the centre of gravity and has no counterweights, meaning balance becomes an issue away from the horizontal. As you point higher, the COG falls further behind the axis of rotation meaning you need the tension on the axis bolt pretty firm, meaning you will get rough jerky movement and is generally unpleasant. The az3 is fine for a spotting scope, but if you want to point upwards you will find it lacking.

Cheapest alt-az mount I could recommend is the gso model, which is fine for an 80mm refractor or a short tube 100. The 120 would be pushing it even given the official rating of 20lb, which I think is overly optimistic having checked out the stability of one in the shop. Even now you are outside your budget.

As for the eq3, well I think that eq mounts are unsuitable when portability rates highly in your criteria. You will find it as much trouble as moving the 10" dob.

I went down a similar path. I owned a 10" dob and wanted a second smaller scope. I bought an ed80 and was seriously disappointed in how little could be seen from my suburban back yard. I sold it and ended up with this..

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=9484&highlight=r130sf

[Screwdriverone]

Hi Peter,

Here is another option for you at Andrews, a Mak Cas 150mm scope on a Skywatcher EQ5 mount!

EQ5 mount/tripod (s/steel) with Mak. MC150x1900 telescope, complete $699.00

Just a bit over the budget, but probably the best aperture / mount combo there.

EDIT: WOAH! I forgot something. If you want Grab and GO, the Ioptron Cube is at Sirius Optics (http://www.sirius-optics.com.au/ioptron_refractor.htm)and comes with a GPS GOTO mount with 50,000 object database and a 80mm ED scope.

SmartStar ™-G Series
Mount with #8402A Controller with 50,000 objects internal 32 Ch.
GPS and Tripod.
Price: $620.00
Code: #8802

I advise that you give Andrews a call as well as they are supposed to be supplying the Ioptron range very soon!

Chris

[Peter Kalan]

So many replies in less than a day. If only telstra were this efficient :)

I can spend up to $700. Guess Ive got a few more avenues to explore now.

I've noticed that some of the scopes mentioned here are f5 and others are f9+

Given that ive already got a 10inch f/5 dob am i better going with a scope greater than f/5? I'm more interested in viewing the planets.

Also ill be moving to mount martha soon so light pollution wont be much of a problem as it is in melb.

[Screwdriverone]

Hi Peter,

Telstra - funny! :lol:

If its planets you want and grab and go size - go for a Mak, see my reply #7 for the Andrews one $699 with $1 to spare. AND you get a solid Skywatcher EQ5!

The FL on this Mak is 1900mm which means you can get more mag from the Mak than the others.

That Ioptron cube and 80mm ED is looking tasty though, I might get an orange one.!
Chris

[Chippy]

Looking at the Ioptron offering it says:

"Designed with the latest technology the 80 mm lens is crafted with a fluorite based, low dispersion glass that is ground and polished to exact specifications."

Is this definitely an ED telescope - I wasn't sure?? I know it says low dispersion (which of course ED is) - but I would have thought they'd say 'ED' if it was. Wondering if its actually a cheaper alternative? Anyone know?

Regards,
Nick.

[Peter Kalan]

Screwdriverone, on one of your previous posts you stated that the Ioptron go to mount can be used with the Promak150. Do you know of anyone who's got the combination? Also as per the previous comment does anyone know how the Ioptron ed80 compares to say the skywatcher ED80?

[Screwdriverone]

Hi Peter,

I was speculating as to the suitability of the Promak 150 on the Ioptron cube mount. The tube weight of the Promak150 is listed on Skywatcher's website at 5.1kg (11.22 lbs) and the Ioptron cube at the moment has a payload capacity of 11lbs so this is probably pushing it to mount one of these.

Add a camera for DSO imaging etc and I dont think it would drive it in its current form. I think there is a newer robust version coming out with metal gears which may have a greater payload. You might have to wait a bit tho.

Also, you will need to consider field rotation on a non EQ mount on long exposures as it is an ALT AZ mount which will track ok but will not auto rotate the FOV and therefore may not be suitable for the imaging you want to do. My advice then is to stick with the rock solid Skywatcher EQ5 mount which can be motorised later on (in RA axis - cheapest, or GOTO later) and then mount
either the Andrews MC150 MAK OTA on it (package $699) or the ED80 OTA ($399+$299)

JJJNETTIE has a Ioptron cube and a ED80 mounted on it, drop her a private message to see if she can fill you in on its performance.

Cheers

Chris

[Terry B]

Peter.
I also have this scope and use it as a guide scope. It does have quite a bit of false colour. If you are going to use the scope mainly visually then I think the smaller scopes will be very disappointing. An 80mm ED as suggested seems OK for photography but gives a pretty dim image visually.
The 150mm mak would be light and captures much more light. Not as much as your dob but much more satisfying.

[Peter Kalan]

Once again thanks for all the suggestions. Seeing as I'm not getting into astro any time soon, Ive narrowed it down to the following:
Vixen R130 on porta mount $700 or Guan Sheng 6"GS-500 from andrews for $500 (what are peoples thoughts on this one as no ones mentioned it yet)
or

Andrews MC150x1900 MAK on Eq5 $699

decisions decisions decisions...

[renormalised]

Peter, since you have some eyepieces that came with your dob and a few accessories, I look at it this way....buy the best scope your money can afford. That way, you'll get the performance and quality that you deserve and you're not compromising in any way. Personally, I'd go for the 150mm Mak. You don't need the extra eyepieces, yet, but you want a scope for planetary viewing and such. The Mak would be ideal... good FL, portable and sturdy mount, gathers plenty of light and you can attach a small camera like a Meade LPI or Celestron Nexstar to it to take piccies of the Moon and planets, if you like.

[Screwdriverone]

Hi Peter,

Sorry to do this to you, but I had another thought.

If you are contemplating the Andrews MC150 on EQ5 for $699, why not go for the MUCH better optics of the Promak 150 from Skywatcher $599, and mount this on the EQ3 mount which Andrews sells for $199?

Total then is $798. Only $100 more than the MC150, but on the EQ3 rather than the EQ5.

Too much? Keep in mind the Pro series Skywatcher Mak 150 would probably leave the "Generic" Andrews MC150 for dead. And it has a 5 year warranty and free shipping (not sure about the mount but I think as its a Skywatcher, then it is free freight too!)

So the extra money you would have spent on freight, can go towards the cost of a MUCH better scope that is 20mm bigger than the Vixen one.

Choices, choices.

Chris

[Screwdriverone]

Hi Peter,

Cant help myself....this is PURELY on the portability side of things. :whistle:

This is not exactly grab and go, but is more portable than a 10" dob? Sorta? Don't know how easy or fast this is to tear down or set up? Anyone care to elaborate?

Meade Lightbridge 8 inch (https://www.bintelshop.com.au/Product.aspx?ID=7111)from Bintel for $699?

8" travel dob compared to your existing 10" dob? Or is this just like buying two Ferraris when you can only drive one at a time?

Thats it, I am officially out of ideas now.

Chris

[Starkler]

OR..... put the 150 mak onto a GSO alt-az mount for $298 incl dovetail adapter. Nobody here seems to mention this mount, but it seems to be a hot ticket item in the US right now judging by the CN forum.

I just took a look at the Andrews site. That eq3-c looks way too small and flimsy for the mak. Yuk!

Again I firmly believe that an eq mount runs contrary to the concept of having a convenient, lightweight and portable setup. For a start, you're dealing with dead weight in the form of counterweights and the extra complexity and fiddle factor compared to using an alt-az.

The same goes for the 6" newt on eq mount. We are now looking at a scope heavy and cumbersome enough that its little or no more convenient than the 10" dob you already have, but with less capability.

You should be aware that maks suffer long cool-down periods before they give their best. This is the trade off.

The r130 needs a focuser upgrade as the supplied plastic focuser really is bad..

Its not easy is it?

[AlexN]

Id be leaning towards getting a skywatcher ED80 from all accounts ive heard they are a fantastic refractor and very useful for photography...

That said, the Mak150 on an EQ5 for $699 or the promak150 on an eq3 are both great. But as Starkler said just before my post, you're after something easy to move, grab and go sort of thing... from what I know of EQ mounts, they are anything but.

[Peter Kalan]

I was afraid this would happen. I started of at $400 now I'm at $800. Lets try to keep it under $1000, lol. After more consideration its between the

R130 on the porta mount + crayford focuser (thanks Geoff)
and
the skywatcher pro mak150 on the GSO alt-az mount

portability and light weight are my main concerns. Geoff mentioned cool down time for the mak. How long are we talking here or does it depend on the temp? I also read something about dew and these scopes.

Also which of these scopes would give better detail of the planets?

Once again thanks to all who are helping me out here.

[dannat]

seeing as how the price keeps going up why not get an intes mak - for $900 you cold get the 5", and stick it on a good camera tripod (manfrotto)- beats the others for portabiity & apparently(not seen one) the optics are excellent.

[Peter Kalan]

The ITE M500 5" F/10 (http://www.iteastronomy.com/products/clearance/index.php?tid=M500) looks pretty good. And its on sale for $800us which tripod would i require for this scope?

[Screwdriverone]

Hi Peter,

Thanks to Geoff for some realism, as for better views of the planets, the Skywatcher Promak 150 would probably win this race as it is a 6" scope with 1800mm FL .... but isnt as portable as an Pro ED80 and as Geoff said, takes longer to cool down.

Regarding the EQ mount Geoff and AlexN are absolutely right, I was forgetting the "portability" side of the equation and getting carried away by the optics/value side. AND all the chioces.

Having said that, and with the new Budget ceiling of $1000 in mind :rofl:, ( it IS Federal Budget night after all) as well as portability and suitability of optics for astrophotography, the best solution I think, apart from the Vixen one that Geoff has tested and from all accounts is very impressed with, is this;

Ioptron Cube Alt-Az Goto mount with #8403 controller (5000 objects and 256 user defined ones) $365 inc GST. This is only $65 more than the GSO ALT AZ and is fully computerised and trackable!

Skywatcher PRO ED80 OTA only for $599 from Andrews (Sirius' price is $1260 just for the OTA!) (only 2.47kg OTA weight)

Total: $964 inc GST

This gives you a great quality ED astrophotography scope on a GOTO mount which is definitely grab and go, not as fiddly as the newtonian (collimation!) and is also terrestrial capable. You could theoretically piggyback the ED onto the DOB when you are at home too.

If you ring Andrews and they are able to sell you the Ioptron Cube as well as they said "its coming soon" in their ad in the latest AS&T, you can get it all from the one place.

Sorry to keep widening the playing field. :sadeyes:

PS. Sirius sell a Ioptron Mak90 on the Cube #8504 for $660!

The top of the line Mak100 is $1089 with the 80,000 object database and GPS built in.

SmartStar ™-A Series
Mount with #8402 Controller with 80,000 objects internal 32 Ch.
GPS and Tripod.
Price: $915.00
Code: #8604
Size: 90mm
Price: $1089.00
Code: #8605
Size: 100mm

Yet again, sorry for the new choices, one day I will learn to shut up. I just wish I had a grand to burn myself, I would get a $599 12" Skywatcher DOB faster than you can say "aperture fever" :P

Cheers

Chris

[Starkler]

Sorry to have to poo poo your suggestions again Chris, but an alt-az goto isn't really suitable for anything but the most rudimentary of short exposure astrophotography. Think field rotation. Besides Peter hasn't mentioned any desire to do astrophotography or given it as a criteria in selecting a scope.

I have asked the question and been told that the ioptron cube doesnt allow one to manually push the scope around without losing the goto alignment, so you are stuck waiting for it to slew to targets at what can seem like a snails pace.

On the other hand, a small goto with laser pointer attached could be a useful companion for finding targets set up next to the 10" dob :)

[Peter Kalan]

lol lucky i didn't have more money to spend. The decision would be a nightmare. Although, I'm sure my parents would give a few $100 for my bday thats coming up. hmm

I'm not looking at photography just yet, but to throw a spanner in the works, if i had the option it would be good. But I guess that avenue would limit the type of scope i can get.

That cube at $365 seams like a bargain. Just had a look at their web site but i couldn't find it. Could i put the promak 150 on cube mount?

Attaching the ED80 to my dob as using it as a guide scope is also attractive. Thanks for all these ideas. Wish had more $$$, id just implement them all.

What about the M500 5" F/10. Any thoughts on that scope?
great now I'm asking more questions. As long as people don't mind answering I'm open to everyone's ideas
:)

[dannat]

the m500 will fit on any camera tripod - but you will need a manfrotto to hold it (or one of the clones) - can check bintel/andrews/good camera stores

Houghy has one of the scopes, you could PM him to ask for advice - i think the quality would be a step above scopes like ioptron & skywatcher mak

[Screwdriverone]

Thats Ok Geoff, I forget myself sometimes, but I have mentioned the field rotation previously in the thread. Good to know about the cube though, that you cant freewheel it on manual mode. Bugger.

Hi Peter,

Sorry, I overlapped an idea from another thread asking about astrophotography so I got carried away with the idea here. Geoff is good at reigning me in when I get carried away, thankfully.

Resetting the mind, I think for only $599, the Skywatcher Promak 150 and the Pro ED80 are both great value and both come with an aluminium case (Andrews).

If you like the idea of the piggyback ED80 then go this way, but the Promak 150 will probably give brighter images and better magnification. Both seem to give great photos of DSO's and planets from the examples I have seen on My Astro Shop's Website click here (http://www.myastroshop.com.au/guides/swed80.asp) for the ED80 photos and here (http://www.myastroshop.com.au/guides/promak180.asp) for photos taken with a Promak180 (cant find any for the Promak150 and its only 1 inch difference)

You CANT put the Promak150 on a cube, it exceeds the 5kg payload limit. Sirius Optics sell it here (http://www.sirius-optics.com.au/ioptron_mount.htm), I agree, a goto mount for only $365 is good value, whack the ED80 on it and portability, quality optics and functionality is great for a combo just a bit more than a Celestron Nexstar 130 SLT with goto ($899)

Buy either a ALT AZ GSO mount for $249 or go with Dannat's idea of a camera tripod for the Mak.

If you do use either for Astrophotography later, you will need a motorised EQ mount for the long exposures and this isnt exactly portable as explained before in the thread.

I keep banging on about the Skywatcher Pro series because their quality optics set them aside from most scopes in this bracket and you mentioned you are used to a 10" dob, so I think a 5 inch reflector is a waste of time for the money.

Chris

[Screwdriverone]

Peter,

The April issue of Sky at Night (BBC - UK) magazine apparently has a test of 4 compund 5 -5.5 inch Maks and the Skywatcher ProMak 150 is one of them. See if that helps in any way re the suitability of Maksutovs.

I say apparently because it is an ad for next months mag in the March 2008 issue and I havent been able to find it in the newsagents here yet.

Chris

[Peter Kalan]

thanks to all for their valuable suggestions. Haven't been on in a while due to exams/assignments :(

I've decided to go for the promak 150 on a alt GSO mount. Planning to order it in 2 weeks after my final exam, can't have any distractions till then. I

In regards to that magazine, screwdriveone, is there anywhere i can read it the review online?

[Chippy]

Nice choice I think. Been looking at that option myself... as well as a few others :-))

[Screwdriverone]

Hi Peter,

No, I have been trying to find it online myself, the site only has listings that point u back to the back issue catalogue.

However I have found a PDF review from the Sky at Night of the Promak 150 on an Eq6pro here (http://www.opticalvision.co.uk/documents/SkyWatcher_Pro_Skymax_150_review.pd f) from 2005

Cheers

Chris

[Peter Kalan]

That review looks good. Thanks skrewdriverone. Cant wait till exams are over so i can order the damn thing. One other thing, that ALT mount, could i stick on a camera and use it as a tripod (without the scope) as well?

[thomasz]

Your opinion very good. I will thinks about that.