What to buy?

[Lacey]

For a beginner please give me your thoughts on these two choices (saxon) I have come down to? I want to see both day landscapes and night skies, portable, easy set up, good to excellent clarity??? and under $400.00.



705AZ3

70mm aperture, 500mm focal length. Short-tube land and astronomical viewing telescope, 500mm multi-coated achromatic objective lens, f/7, AZ3 mount, 1.25" 45° erect image diagonal and 3X Barlow lens extremely good for terrestrial viewing, spotting-use, three 1.25" eyepieces give brighter and sharper image, 5x24 finderscope, good quality AZ3 alt-azimuth mount tripod.
<TABLE style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=740 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width=573>709AZ3


70mm aperture, 900mm focal length. Multi-coated achromatic 90mm objective lens, f/13, AZ3 mount, three 1.25" eyepieces give brighter and sharper image, 1.25" 45° erect image diagonal for terrestrial use, 5x24 finderscope, dew cap/sunshade & aluminum tripod. The telescope has 36% greater light gathering capacity than traditional beginner 60mm scope, long focal length allows high magnification (up to 675x),


</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[asimov]

For a beginner or a professional I would choose neither..both crap IMHO

[elusiver]

seriously asimov.. tell us what you really think?? :P ;) :)

from what i understand.. cause u'll probably need to go with a alt/az on a tripod setup u might find it hard finding something solid enough for reasonably stable astro use. For day time terrestrial the mount can bit abit more forgiving. As for the saxon scope.. do a search.. not alot of good said about them.


el :)

[acropolite]

I would be inclined to go for the Orion 80ED which is only marginally larger and not that much more expensive.

[p medcraft]

Ok, here goes
The two choices are relatively similar although the shorter focal length and therefore wider field is probably a better option as it will provide a better comprimise between land and astro viewing. The 70mm F/13 with 90mm objective??. If that is correct it is most probably because the optics are poor in quality (poorer than the scope should have). To get around poor optics one method is to stop down the aperture (90mm to 70mm) to get rid of the worst of the aberations such as vignetting, usually by inserting a field stop inside the tube. The multiplication figures such as 675 times are something of a misnomer. An economy scope combined with atmospherics mean that the liklyhood of getting to that number is small and the viewing even if you could would be marginal at best. I have $13000.00 worth of F/11 scope and last weekend I could not get past 559x and even then the image was a mess. The number makes great advertising but its usefulness is limited to nil.
In my opinion a better alternative for your money would be to buy a decent pair of binoculars giving at least 80mm to each eye or better. I have attached a link to Andrews Communications
http://www.andrewscom.com.au/site-content-section-11.htm
where you will see a range of binoculars including 100mm aperture with zoom eyepieces. do your numbers and you should be able to get a tripod to go with it. A little further research and you can build your own Parallelogram mount that enables easy deep sky observing. It is often overlooked but some very fine astro observing can be had with binoculars of 80mm or more. It probably isn't what you wanted to hear but the 70mm refractors on ALT/AZ mounts are really limited in what they can be used for astronomically. a combination of a long tube with narrow FOV means that objects are hard to center and even harder to keep there (assuming you can find them with a 5x24 finderscope). The flexure of the mount and tripod makes this problem even worse. I saw one of these scopes arrive at a dark sky night in Melbourne a couple of years ago and the owner couldn't center Saturn in the eyepiece. A couple of us went over to help and we couldn't do it either because as soon as you had it in the FOV and let go of everything the flexure moved it away.
OK, it probably sounds like aperture arrogance and I certainly don't intend it to but I have been where you are (my first was a 4" Tasco 11TR from Myers and I loved that scope to death) and would see you get the best for your money.
Recapping, first suggestion is Binoculars for that amount of money, second is that you go with a wide field short focal length refractor on an ALT/AZ mount.
Good luck and good hunting.

Paul Medcraft

[asimov]

:rofl: ok! I can do that! :D Let me elaborate on my blunt/brief/comment..

"when I was a wee lad........." j/jokin'

Seriously though...The 70mm diametre refractor on your list would be ok for terrestrial viewing, but no good for astronomy....too small man. The short focal length your going to get plenty of false colour. Really only a toy for astronomical use! (IMHO) :thumbsup:

The 2nd one ....I dont like the 'false advertising' for starters (that's if you copied N pasted that info in here?) 70mm aperture & 90mm diameter?? That's rather confusing for a newbie! If it (IS?) a 90mm diametre scope, at F13....It's gonna be better for astronomical purpose's I guess.. RE: the 675X mag!!??
What can I say? That's rubbish!

I dunno....I think for 400 dollar's, there's better choice's out there.

What about a 4.5" to 6" reflector...with an image inverter for terrestrial viewing?

[TidaLpHasE]

I think the idea of a good set of binno's around your price range would be the best option.

I am also looking to buy a scope, and have a "want it now" attitude.

Even though my budget is alot more than yours, i am now thinking of getting myself a good pair of binnox, instead of spending lots of $$$$$ on a scope and gadgets that i won't know how to use, and avoid the frustration of my high expectations of zooming in on "one small step for man's" footprints on the lunar surface.

I hope the binno's will guide me through the sky and help me learn along with an atlas where things are.

Once i learn more about telescopes in general, and the various models and their specs, i will be better positioned to make a purchase that will give me the expectations that i am looking for.

If you must have a scope now, from my little knowledge, i would go for a dob.

Their price is within your budget, and there is plenty of members here to advise you on this scope.

Good luck with your choice:thumbsup:

ps. What would be the better quality brands of binnox for astro viewing ?

[p medcraft]

On the subject of buying Bino's if you have a bigger budget I would not hesitate to grab the Oberwerk 100mm Bino's. They come with their own sturdy tripod, rotating barrel fitted with 24mm and 40mm erfles and backpack carry case. With the addition of a paralellogram or unimount to allow the binocs to go close to vertical you have a fantastic wide field veiwing platform that will gather attention at the next observing night for sure. I have had the opportunity to look through these from dark sky sites a few times and they are great. There is a lot to be said for using two eyes and getting as many photons into them as you can! Andrews have a cheaper clone of them called the Giant 25/40 x 100 SB and they charge $1500.00 for them. Worth every cent! A couple of years ago the Oberwerks sold for around $2500.00 to $3400.00.
If you would like a history lesson they started life as Chinese military field binoculars hence the backpack carry case.

[asimov]

The 80 ED ....Now that would be a top choice.

[janoskiss]

I see that some of the responses so far have been less than helpful. :ashamed:

OK, let's see, a starter scope for under $400.

For maximum aperture per $: 200mm Dobsonian from Andrews. Good general purpose scope; great on planets, many deep sky objects within reach. Will need ongoing maintenance (collimation); needs to cool down before observing when temperature difference between storage and outside > 5 degrees. Will fit across the back seat of a small car, but not in the boot.

For planets: 80-90mm achromat. Better contrast than the reflector; great for planets, open clusters, some of the brighter DSOs; maintenance free (provided you don't drop it!); grab and go, no or almost no cooldown time. Not enough aperture for fainter deep sky objects. Shorter focal length refractors will have worse chromatic abberation (all else being equal), so you'll probably want to go for longer FL. More compact than the Dob; will fit in boot.

For breathtaking wide views of the Milky way: 20x80 binoculars and a sturdy tripod. Can't really go wrong with these, but you are limited to 20x magnification, which is not enough to see detail on the planets. (BTW, Mars, Saturn & Jupiter are the only planets where you can see detail on the surface with any Earth-bound scope.)

Either which way you go, you'll have heaps to look at. Just keep in mind that most places that sell telescopes overcharge for them, and for $400 you are likely to end up with a piece of junk if you don't spend your money wisely. You'll get great value from Andrews (http://www.andrewscom.com.au) on Dobs and binos, and from AOE (http://www.aoe.com.au/refractors.html) on refractors and binos.

Another couple of points:

I believe the AZ3 mounts with the slow motion controls are quite good and convenient for smaller refractors. The AZ1 and AZ2 mounts are shockers. Stay away from these. EQ mounts can be awkward to use and the inexpensive ones will almost certainly be less sturdy than the simple Dob base, but being able to track with one slow motion knob is very nice when viewing planets at high magnification.

It is not true that small refractors are no good for astronomy, Things like details on the Moon, banding on Jupiter, Saturn's rings, as well as the moons of the gas giants are all clearly visible with my old 60mm refractor. Ditto open clusters and brighter globulars.

Good luck and stay in touch!

[ving]

if you want a refractor on a budget try andrewscom.com.au and looka t the skywatcher 80x400. wont be great for planets (well not close anyway) but you shoud be able to get some good widefield shots.... but the 8" dob from the same place will let you see more but it weighs a bit tho and isnt as easy to lug around. that said tho, my 8" dob fits in my astra well enuff.

[dhumpie]

Hi Lacey,

For under $400 dollars your best bet is a 6" f/8 dobsonian from Andrew's Communications. They currently go for $299 (add an extra $40-$50 for road freight). You might even have extra money for a good pair of binoculars for starhopping (and that daytime views you want and maybe a good book....). Remember with astronomy what you want is light gathering and not magnification.....

Darren

http://www.andrewscom.com.au/site-section-10.htm

[janoskiss]

Yes you can! :doh: My 20x80s arrived last week and for the first time since we had some clear skies here in Melbourne (for a couple of hours), and I finally got to try them out under the night sky. They are terrible!! Badly out of collimation with extreme chromatic aberrations. Cannot get Jupiter to focus to a disk. Just a blur of colours.

I suspect that with the cheap Chinese gear, the dealer can make a lot of difference. Maybe try AOE if you want cheap large binos. They claim to inspect each one for collimation... :confused:

[RAJAH235]

Have a quick look in here if you can......
http://www.oberwerk.com/products/default.htm
http://www.binocularschina.com/
Good luck. :D L.

[janoskiss]

Yes, Laurie, I've seen those site; they're the type of binos I got (the 20x80 triplets), and they are pretty bad. I'm going to be sending them back.

[RAJAH235]

But they look so good, Steve! Good luck. :thumbsup: :D L.

[ballaratdragons]

They look good but they don't LOOK good :cool: :nerd:

Ha ha, get it? They look good but they don't . . . ahh forget it. If it needs explanation it ain't funny! :confused:

[janoskiss]

It seems I got really unlucky and got a really badly made/repaired one. I took them out for another look tonight just to double check that I'm not blind. Yes it looks just as bad on streetlights and the city lights 20km away. Then it's gone from bad to worse. Then the plastic dew shield broke off as I was peeling the dustcap off one objective. I wasn't forceful or anything just two fingers! Underneath, the plastic looks really rough like someone had a go at it with a kitchen knife. Same is true for the plastic retainer ring that holds the front lens in. :( :( I hope Andrews is going to do the right thing and give me a refund.

[ballaratdragons]

Steve,

I hope he doesn't think you did the scratches etc. Good luck with it.

[fringe_dweller]

Steve, sorry to hear of your experience! but cheap large aperture binos should still be ok under very dark skies, even out of collimation/alignment? (especially on a $400+ sturdy tripod). i have a pair of the cheap 25x100 chinese Kumnings binos - and under dark skies they are pretty impressive - but in town you have to ask why bother - their sort of like two dififferent sets of binos depending on your location! I got them for bright comets exclusively. Good quality average size binos and cheap and better large aperture binos do a better job on bright comets than my handmade 10" newt would ever do, for me. low power/wide field/max contrast is far more important (visually) with these objects.
Planets and most things are laughable with these bino's of mine too - the massive green halo of CA on the full moon nearly made me fall over the first time i saw it (weird view of the full moon! looks like a soviet 50's era black and white moon image - trippy contrast!) - but go for a drive through the milky way - thru carina. SMC ect. from a very dark sky site, well its a pretty nice and different ride! :) Not worth getting for that view just tho, IMHO.
I thought i saw a good writeup on, and plug for, those 20x80 binos just recently in this forum from someone who was quite happy with them?. maybe they live under dark skies?
I admit if it wasnt for my strong main interest in bright comets I would never of bought them.
Eye relief is terrible, focusers stiff and awkward, the FOV is a lot less than they claim in advertising, bad at the edges ect., but i like the way these modern large binos that are braced near the front objectives and along the length (they nevr used to do that very often if at all in the past?) - should save on very worst of alignment troubles that you can get with big binos? and you get to balance them better on a tripod via sliding lockin connector on the central bar, being able to shift weight back by going further forward with fulcrum, and therefore not have to strip the lockdowns on the tripod head with over tightening.
When you say they are out of collimation - do you mean because stars won't come to focus? Are the stars/streetlights a diamond/triangular shape? or are they normal pinpoint star shaped? sorry for all the questions :)
But large aperture binos new for ~$250 is always going to be tricky maybe? ;)
Kearn

[elusiver]

i think u scared lacey off :abduct:

el :)

[janoskiss]

Kearn,
Stars with these binos show flaring in one specific direction.
The triplet objectives are meant to reduce chromatic aberrations, and from what people say, they should do a good job too.
The binos I got have clearly been butchered by someone. Maybe it's been around the block a few times... repair/resell. Geez! This would all be so much easier if I could walk into a shop and have a look at what I'm buying first. Now I've got to explain what's wrong and try to get a refund at a distance 1000km.

[janoskiss]

Sorry Lacey!

To answer your question (properly): Get the 90x600mm refractor on AZ3 mount from AOE + the 1.25" erect image 90 degree diagonal. That's just under $400 and will fit with your requirements. Get the 90x900mm if you are willing to go just a little over $400, and want better performance at higher magnification for observing planets. Dobs are not really convenient for daytime use, and big cheap binos, ... well you know what I think of them at the moment.

[fringe_dweller]

Ahh! ...ummm ok Steve, never seen that before - i see, one or both of the triplets may be out of wack?!!?? Bino's collimation and related problems seems like some secret black art to me. Is there any info on the net on how to do this stuff yourself? i have never seen how to's on this subject myself. Its not exactly the same as refractors coz theres usually prisms involved in the set up i guess.
anyway good luck with it all mate! :)
Kearn

[iceman]

My 11x70 Saxon binos show this abberation on bright stars, too. I can't see Jupiter as a disc, without flaring.

[janoskiss]

Maybe my expectations were too high after reading some very positive reviews and comments. But in any case the binos I got have been tempered with, and the plastic fittings around one objective are damaged. Good thing is that Lee (Andrews) agreed to a refund, which I very much appreciate. I sent them back today. I don't think I'll be buying large binos anytime soon. I prefer crisp colour-free view with one eye than a mediocre view with two eyes. I have to admit though that Omega Centauri did look pretty impressive through the 20x80s.

[asimov]

Lacey...Do yourself a favour and save up for the ed80..

I know it's more than your stated $400 But For quality reasons....anyhow, heres a link to a review for the ED80

http://whizzospace.com/astro/orion80ed-review.htm

[Lacey]

:scared2: Ahhh.......Guys?........

[asimov]

This happens every time lol....differences of opinions! :doh:

If that's what you were referring to Lacey with your latest post?

Tell us your thoughts so far.

[Lacey]

:confuse3: Ok......After such an astronomical amount of information I have altered my wish list...being budget up to $500 (I know your crying) forget bird/land watching, basically I would like to see the bones on the moon (from when the cow didn't make it over). Good brand, not too big that I can't move, not too tech that I can't operate. I would have to purchase (if required) a tripod with it as there is not even a camera shop here, and Big W only sells flimsy ones.

:prey:Dare I ask what you think of the:
MEADE ETX-70AT COMPUTER GUIDED TELESCOPE ($350)
someone told me about it, can only find a 90 model on bintel ($900)???

[RAJAH235]

Lacey, Please don't read too much into all the goings on in here. You can get too much info. thrown at you too quickly. My advice, 1; Save up for awhile. 2nd; If you don't already have them, then goto a 2nd hand shop & TRY BEFORE YOU BUY,(PM me for a how to, if not sure), a good pair of 7 x 50 mm bino's. Shouldn't pay more than about $50.00. 3rd; Contact, (www.bintel.com.au), for a 'Chandler' brand, large version, not the small 1, Planisphere, ($22.00?). 4; You'll also need a red LED torch, so you don't ruin your night vision. Armed with just these 3 simple bits of gear, get out as often as you can & learn what the sky/constellations looks like & how to navigate your way around. 5; Contact a local society/club & have a look at what is available that will suit your needs. Ask lots of questions, & take notes. They won't mind.
When you think you know,,,, buy a 12" DOB......:P..... Just kidding...... not really.
Just take your time at present. The Universe is not going to disappear just yet!
HTH. O.K. :D L.

[GrampianStars]

http://www.adelaideoptical.com.au/images/tele_wo_zinith66apo.jpg
the baby Zenithstar would be a perfect starter
and later wound be a great guide scope
from Adelaide Optical (http://www.adelaideoptical.com.au) :thumbsup:

[Lacey]

This is where it's tricky...My closest club is Bundaberg 225km away then Brisbane 600km away.....Gladdy doesn't even have a camera club! ...So I am relying on you guys!!!

:face:

[asimov]

How much is it?

[asimov]

Lacey, may I establish something with you....Are you positive you only want to spend a maximum of $400 or are you willing to save to get something that will give you really great views? That would help us out a lot...then we can narrow down the search dramatically..Have a think about it..

[janoskiss]

"not too tech": You'll probably want to stick to Dobsonian mounted reflectors, or alt-azimuth mounted (i.e., camera tripod style with slow motion) refractors.

"bones on the moon": I guess you mean you want to get as much magnification as possible. Here you're always limited by the atmosphere to somewhere between 150 & 300x, depending on conditions. You'll need a long focal length refractor of at the very least 80mm aperture or a Dob (read on).

"Good brand": The only really "good brands" are the ones that cost several thousands of dollars up. Pretty much all affordable scopes are no-names, or branded no-names made in China or Taiwan by factories that sell to the well known companies like Celestron, Orion, Meade etc.

"not too big": If I had your budget I'd get a 200mm Dobsonian. It's big enough to show you heaps but small enough to easily move by yourself. At $399 from Andrews, you can spend the extra $100 on accessories. (You will probably want a collimating tool of some sort for starters.) Hey, 7 months ago I did have your budget. And I did get the 200mm Dob. And I don't regret it one bit. A tremendous telescope for such a small investment. Especially at a dark site, it's mindblowing fun! (but some people think I'm weird. :ashamed: ) BTW: Dobsonian refers to the simple alt-azimuth mount. No need for tripod.

Never looked through one, but I believe 70 stands for 70mm aperture, which is rather limiting. You're probably spending more on the goto with that one than on the optics.

[RAJAH235]

Lacey, Parts of what I said are still relevant. If you can't afford exactly what you want, now, SAVE. Binos, Planisphere & red LED torch will tide you over whilst learning/saving.
Do you really need it for terrestrial viewing? Something special in mind? Astronomical t'scopes don't really lend themselves to terrestrial viewing. They are not designed as such. This is where the compromise factor comes in. Remember, the first rule is "APERTURE WINS". So basically, if you want to view the night sky, buy the biggest DOB you can afford. See all previous posts for info. But I, personally would recommend at least a 8"/10".
Just to throw more info. at you, DO NOT skimp on the Eye Pieces. You get what you pay for. Get 'plossl' types at least.(1 1/4"). I'm going to recommend 'MEADE' Super Plossls here, but they are fairly expensive. Others may/will disagree, but I like them. I cannot afford, nor do I want 'NAGLERS' 'PANOPTICS' etc etc. I just don't like the 2" view.
Lacey, Can you see that it's all a personal choice? All we can do, is supply you with the basic info. YOU have the final say in what you buy.
Geoff,(Phil), likes the Orion ED80. It's probably the best Allround choice for what you want. It's good for Terrestrial & Astronomical use, & the mount is good.
HTH a bit more. Good luck with your decision.. :thumbsup: Regards, L. :D
ps. If you opt for Astronomical only, then re-read my previous bit re; 'APERTURE WINS'. L.

[asimov]

Originally Posted by Lacey
:confuse3: Ok......After such an astronomical amount of information I have altered my wish list...being budget up to $500 (I know your crying) forget bird/land watching, basically I would like to see the bones on the moon (from when the cow didn't make it over). Good brand, not too big that I can't move, not too tech that I can't operate. I would have to purchase (if required) a tripod with it as there is not even a camera shop here, and Big W only sells flimsy ones.

Damn...my apologies, I didn't even see that post. I agree with janoskiss. A 200 mm dobsonian. The GS brand is apparently the best quality for low cost category.

[GrampianStars]

Lacey
FRASER (http://astronomy.trilobytes.com.au/scope.htm) at TRILOBYTES (http://astronomy.trilobytes.com.au/scope.htm) has a pretty good run down of what to look for
also a run down of sites to buy

[janoskiss]

Yes, they're a good read, and most of it still relevant, but some of the info is getting old. Nowadays you can get good scopes for very little money, thanks to the economic boom in China.

[asimov]

Normally, most here would say goto Andrews communications for the GS dobsonians.

[GrampianStars]

Janos --- aka Steve H
FRONTIER OPTICS (http://www.frontieroptics.com/William%20Optics%20Telescopes.html) has a good site for $498.00
Frontier Optics
P.O. Box 6397
Kincumber NSW 2251
Australia
0402 672 989
fax 02 43 690 552

[Lacey]

Thanks heaps Guys...!

I think I will go with your 8" Dobsonian, however I did have my eye on this one only Andrews Communications didn't have any in stock, well I couldn't find it in their web site!http://www.ll.mit.edu/LINEAR/images/gts2_218.jpg
Tell me does someone work for Andrews? or are they just a really good place to purchase scopes etc?

[asimov]

:lol: Yep! Had my eye on that 1 for 30 yrs or so lol..;) As far as I know (or so the guys tell me on here) Andrews is the best to go to for GS dobs. I dont know anyone in the forum that works there, but there could be? Good choice Re the 8" dob Lacey! :thumbsup:

[janoskiss]

:rofl: It sure would seem so, but no! To the best of my knowledge, none of us are affiliated with Andrews. It is just the cheapest place to buy GS Dobs at the moment. The downside of buying from Andrews is that I don't think Lee Andrews an amateur astronomer, so any advice you get from him is just 2nd or 3rd hand info from his suppliers. In email communications I found AOE the most helpful, with Bintel a close second. Lee tends to be very terse; I think he works 12-14 hours a day...

[Starkler]

It certainly seems that Andrews just sell boxes, and sell them cheaply. The risk is in asking for specialist advice if you dont know exactly what you want.

[RAJAH235]

PTN, BTW, FWIW, etc etc, Has anyone not noticed the name, "ANDREWS COMMUNICATIONS!" Definitely not 'Andrews Astronomy'. It's strictly a 'side line' AFAIK. Better off with Bintel for info.... FWIW. :P :D L.

[asimov]

What 'info'? All the info needed..specialised or otherwise is right here in this forum..

Andrews just happens to be the cheapest.

[slice of heaven]

If you know of this site.
:confuse3:
Need an IIS sticker on each box :thumbsup:

[xstream]

And Mike should be getting commission for the amount of business Lee is gaining from this forum.

[slice of heaven]

I agree, or at least some form of recognition

[janoskiss]

Here is a recent example:
Which of Andrews' many types of 7x50 binos are best suited to astronomy? What are the FOVs of the different models? Are any of them fully multicoated? If not, what level of coating? BTW I'm not interested in ruby coated binos. Andrews' first response was "All our binoculars are very good quality". After several days of emails (and a phonecall) I didn't get much further and gave up on Andrews and got the 7x50s from AOE.

[asimov]

Right. Thank-you Janos for that example. Raff (aoe) sells the Saxon dobs, plus as much info as one wants! (as you & I know Janos) If I knew SAXON was as good as GS optically. I would suggest going with a SAXON. So at Andrews you get bugger all service & info....Interesting..:confuse3:

[Starkler]

They are not sadly and happen to be more expensive than GS due to the Tasco middleman effect.

[janoskiss]

I guess you could have misunderstood my previous post. To say you get bugger all service from Andrews is very unfair. Lee did respond to every email I sent and tried to answer all my questions, but sometimes he just does not know the answer.

The Saxon dobs are quite a bit more expensive than the GS ones, because they have pyrex mirrors (at least the bigger ones do), which you don't need unless you're a Kiwi, or very impatient. The 8-inch are also shorter focal length (f5), so more hassle with collimation & coma.

[Lacey]

Hey guys!

I have just been looking back at a chat you had with Blitz in January. To jog your memory a couple of you had ordered your dobs (one of you were waiting for pizza)......

Ok to those of you who purchased the 8" Dob from Andrews tell me please can you see something better than this: http://astronomy.customer.netspace.net.au/Pics/P25.jpg pic taken with a Meade ETX70 looking at the moon through 25mm or this on a 9mm http://astronomy.customer.netspace.net.au/Pics/P9mm.jpg

The pic owner does state he used a poor camera and I assume that the ETX70 was tracking at the time.

Also what is with the 2lt milk bottles that you need to keep?

And, finally could someone explain about the filters? whats needed and why? as I guess that will be my next purchase.

PS I will tell Lee you sent me :lol2:

[iceman]

You will see much better with your eyes with an 8" dob than what you see on those images, no question about it. You'll be blown away.

[asimov]

Hi Lacey. I requested Some info late last night, & it was here when I logged on just now.

The 8" dob your thinking of getting Has a BK7 primary, a 2" rack & pinion focuser (with 1.25 adapter) 2 1.25" eyepieces (no info as to what type) If you wanted a crayford style focuser, rather than a rack & pinion it'll cost you approx an extra $100. In my opinion well worth it but Rack&pinions work ok too.

Hope this helps.. PS price on Saxon arriving shortly.

[Lacey]

This is what I found in your previous chat thingie http://www.gs-telescope.com/dob.htm says here that they are plossl eyepieces...I will have to ask the other half what R&P is v's crayford....sorry you got me here....

I realise I am being a bit of a scab with my money at present, but I feel this will be the first and want to be well in the know before I spend my $2500+ on exactly what I want later, you know when I figure out what the heck the filters are for?

PS I gotta say I am enjoying this site, I have had a few good cackles...keep it up guys!

[janoskiss]

Lacey, I got the 8" GSO Dob from Andrews in January. It's not without its flaws, but it is unbelievable how much telescope you get for such a modest investment. Way better than anything else in this pricerange. Yes you will see much much more than in those overexposed photos.

Other things you may want to consider:

Filters
Don't know much about filters, but everyone agrees that the cheap colour filters are useless. Apparently, the only remotely useful ones are over $100 a pop (some a lot more) and Andrews does not stock them.

Collimation
What you will need is a collimating tool for aligning the mirrors when you get the scope and occasionally thereafter. When I got my scope I also got the return-beam laser collimator, which is easiest to use, but error prone. A Cheshire is a simpler and cheaper tool ($29) which I've ordered since. I found alignment problems with the both the tools themselves, but these are easiest to work around with the Cheshire.

Eyepieces
Now if the adverts in current AS&T are correct, you'll only get two eyepieces (EPs) with your scope; probably a 25mm and a 9mm. You should get one more, the 15mm GSO Plossl (don't go for the Andrews Ser. 500s; Lee will tell you they're basically the same, but they're not as good.). It's been rumoured on this site that these are down to $39. If you do get four EPs with the scope, then great. Go with 9,15,20,25mm.

Barlows
You could also get a barlow for more flexibility with magnification, and for the extra power when seeing is good. I don't know how good the 1.25" GSO achromatic barlows are, but they are quite cheap (<$50), and will probably stop you from spending more on eyepieces for a while. Don't know if long or short barlow is better, but I'm sure some fellow iceinspacer will know.

and finally...
Milk jug washers
Though they are highly recommended by other Dob owners, they didn't seem to do much for my scope. My azimuth motion is still too stiff but I can live with it. I'm still looking for the ideal solution (formica laminate, magic sliders, mosaic tiles, lubes, bearings ...)

[janoskiss]

To my mind, this starts defeating the purpose of a good max-bang-for-buck budget scope. There are many upgrades things you could think: Crayford: another $100-$150; right angle finder: $100; telrad with dew shield: $100; cupholders: $15.95 etc etc. For best value, I'd say stick with the basics: 3 good EPs, Cheshire and maybe a barlow.

Also with the Crayfords you're asking for trouble! Lee does not get any 8" Dobs in with Crayfords on them. If he's willing to do an upgrade he will have to fit it himself. He always seems very busy, so it'll probably be done in a hurry. (Fitting involves drilling new mount holes in the OTA, making sure they're properly aligned, making sure you don't get metal shavings on your primary or secondary mirrors...) If you don't get the upgrade, you will need to buy it separately, which will cost you more. Also, you're likely to get one that's too big for your scope. And if not, then it will not fit any bigger scopes you might buy in future.

[Starkler]

janos , the GS crayfords fits the original holes of the R&P focuser. It did on my 10 inch and they use the same r&p on the 8 i imagine.

[janoskiss]

Geoff, on my 8", the R&P focuser is flush with the OTA, so it wouldn't fit on bigger OTAs.

[Starkler]

It'll fit but with small gaps at the side due to the larger tube diameter.
A focuser made for a smaller tube can fit a larger one, but not vice versa as it wont sit properly.

[asimov]

As I said, Rack & pinion focusers work ok too. A crayford's not what I would call a mandatory item. BK7 is just a special kind of glass that the main mirror is made of Lacey.

I'd say just get the GS dob 'as is' from Andrews....But of course, that's just my opinion. If you wanna do any up-grading to it after you've got it, I'm sure we'll all be able to help you out with info on how to do that as well...:D

Good luck with whatever you decide to do. :thumbsup:

[janoskiss]

Yeah, just don't be silly and try to use them with a heavy all-metal body SLR camera + barlow, like I did yesterday weekend. The weight of the apparatus squashed the front two teflon bearings enough so that now I have a wobbly, department store grade focuser. :doh: