QHY8 or modded 40d?

[Astrod00d]

OK everyone,

I'd like to get a new camera, exclusively for astro imaging. My field time is limited, and my skies not totally black, so a single shot colour camera would seem to be the best option for now.
In my price range are a modded 40d http://www.sciencecenter.net/hutech/canon/index.htm
a QHY8 cooled ccd. http://qhyccd.com/QHY8.html
The QHY8 has almost no dark noise and good spectral response, but it uses a lot of power, 12V at 4A means I'll need a car battery to run the set-up when I'm away from mains power.
The 40d with a Hutech or Baader mod is practical too, the images on these forums speak for themselves, but the cooled ccd should have better signal to noise.

I've seen a few discussions on IIS about the merits of CCD vs DSLR, but I can't find much on the QHY8, which would seem to be the best alternative to a DSLR. (A DSLR killer??)

There is a wealth of experience on IIS. Please, let's start a bit of a discussion about the QHY8 vs the modded 40d, post some images, talk about the pros and cons of each. It could be interesting...:whistle:

Cheers,

Rob

[seeker372011]

well my Qhy8 arrived last week----notice the thunderstorms around Sydney? eventually i will be able to provide you you with one side of the story at least -hopefully :)

[seeker372011]

oh for images the qhy forum is the place to go

[Hagar]

Just got mine also. Hopefully will have some images soon.
Check out QHY forum
http://www.qhyccd.com/ccdbbs/

[Alchemy]

An isssue id very much like to see covered but with the added cooling as if youre going to that level for the extra its going to be worth it, the standard modded 40d might go say 10 mins exposure whereas the cooled could extend way beyond that.

So far ken G, Hagar and seeker372011 have got one that i know of, and on the other side for the cooled camera its h0ughy that owns one (350d)

Ive been impressed by the results with h0ughys camera, particularly the Ha response (see photon collectors cg4 image) the 40d can only be better.

on the q8 forum/images im impressed with the ability to go 20 min exposures.

there does not seem to be a real comparison just yet as i really dont think m42 or m8 is a worthwhile comparitive study, some more challenging objects need to be displayed, and then of couse the processing skills of the imager will also play a part.

The 40 d has 10+ megapixels , the q8 has about 6, whether the extra pixels can be utilised in anything other than widefield is debateable.

icing up would be an issue id like to know about, the q8 is pretty much sealed i dont know for the 40d that issue.

the weight factor of a modded 40d vs q8 would have the 40d weighing in way over the q8 i expect. which is an issue with less than solid focusers.

i would like to know about the image format and software for the q8 as the cannon has a solid package that is easy to use.


Just my musings at the moment, im leaning evr so slightly towards the q8 at the moment.

clive.

[Zuts]

Hi,

The QHY8 is cooled but it is not regulated cooling. Once you turn on the cooling the camera will get as cold as possible but it will vary with ambient. Therefore like a DSLR you probably need to take darks as part of the nights imaging, unlike a regulated setup where you dial in the temp and can take the darks anytime. People say you dont need to take darks with a QHY8 but i dont quite understand this as there are other types of noise apart from just hot pixels.

Additionally the cost of a 40D plus mod plus cooling is more expensive than a QHY8 and in some cases is approaching that of dedicated second hand astro cameras SBIG etc. I would probably go the dedicated astro camera route if it was my choice and get the QHY8 even though the cooling is not regulated.

If you are talking about spending over 3 grand landed on a modded, cooled 40D which wont be any use for daylight the lighter dedicated QHY8 starts to look much more appealing.

Just my 2 cents

Paul

[Alchemy]

ive seen the same comments about no darks, not having any experience with cooled cameras my thinking is this, at cool (maybee -20 deg) the noise level is minimal, and the difference between -20 deg and -16 deg for noise is much less than say 20 deg and 16 deg.... hope that makes some sense.

it might be possible to take a series of darks and use for most of the cool temps with reasonable results ?????

the noise of my 300d although a basic modded job, above 20 deg c is objectionable to the point i dont bother anymore, as i know i can do better another day.

interested in other peoples thoughts:)

[Alchemy]

another question, what is the wait time for purchasing the q8

[[1ponders]]

I've often seen this comment about no darks (and not just in this thread) and I just don't understand it. If observatories that cool their cameras to -100 deg need to take darks what makes others feel they don't? Taking darks is an important part of the callibration process. They don't just remove the repeatable noise, but also hot pixels, bias charge, shot noise etc.

[RB]

I've often said this as well.
It is important to do darks (as well as flats for that matter), unless you're really pressed for time.
Applying darks does improve the quality of the outcome whether it's a cooled cam or no.

[Alchemy]

makes sense, darks are easily enough done so not a big deal,

going to keep this thread active as this is a subject i really want covered.:D

earlier questions about software, icing up, not yet answered:D

i have been perusing images from this camera (q8) this afternoon and it is now probably exactly the camera i need, so dont be shy and speak up with opinions.

[Gama]

Sorry for taking too long to respond guys, but i had many other things to do..
Anyway, lets start with the "No Draks required". Well, thats about right for most images you will be doing.

Why, because as some of you had said, NOISE (Or lack of it). Noise is not just a slight difference in background. Its can be a MASSIVE difference. For those with a slow internet, i suggest you just look at the thumb nails at my site that compares a 10 minute dark frame from a QHY-8 and an image from the SBIG STL-11000M http://web.aanet.com.au/gama/qe.html .

For those that have high speed, then compare them here for the QHY-8 http://web.aanet.com.au/gama/images/darkframe600-QHY8.jpg and then the SBIG here http://web.aanet.com.au/gama/images/thumb%20STL11000%20dark%2030%20sec. jpg .

This is why you need to take dark frames with the Kodak sensors. Thats not a starfield there boys.. Its noise, and it changes with temperature. This is why you need to match the exact temp when doing imaging with your exposures. So if you want a 2 minute image, you need to take a 2 minute dark. You want to image 3 minutes now ?, well, you need to re do a dark frame for the 3 minute frame. Because the QHY-8 has peanut shells worth of noise, it doesnt need to be set at exactly the same temp. Even if you have a temp difference of 10 or 20 degrees, its still never going to produce the noise the Kodak chips produce.
So this is why you dont need to regulate these Sony sensor cameras QHY, and in fact the Starlight Xpress cameras are also designed this way as well (Sony ccd chips).
Imagine just turning on the camera, leaving it cool down while you setup your scope, then attach and start imaging. No darks !, just dial in 1, 2 , 5, 10 minute exposures, and change the exposure the next frame, no need to do darks again for the different exposure.
Of course people that want to frame their work, or are perfectionists, then they would take a dark frame, but even so, the noise is not at the same levels produced by the Kodak sensors. In fact, you could count the pixels on one hand that have saturated. Sony are very stringent on dead pixels, and pixels that saturate withing a given time. There is more detail in terms of noise, but that is a few chapters in themselves.

Availability is high globally, and can take time to deliver. I do get large orders of them. They dont last long, word gets around pretty fast, and many dont believe the "No Dark Frames required" that many say. But its true !.

If there is any more info you need let me know guys.

Theo.

[Astrod00d]

Wow Theo, our posts crossed! I'll edit mine a bit!

Yes, with the QHY8 I think I would take a few master darks. Why short-cut things after spending $2440 on a camera, I'd want the best results possible.

True, the QHY8 does not have regulated cooling. How important is regulated cooling, and I wonder if regulation could be added later? Theo-The noise is so low anyway that regulation is not really important.

What capture software would one use with a QHY8, and what would it cost?

Centralads have the cooled astro 400d for USD2150 including shipping. We'd still have to pay duty/GST on arrival in Australia, so the QHY8 costs less.

Is condensation an issue with a cooled DSLR? Houghy?

So many things to consider! :lol:

Cheers,

Rob

[Gama]

You guys arent doing much looking, and really should. If you guys did, then you would have found out that the QHY-8 comes with Maxim DL, Astroart, CCDsoft, Video capture and streaming, and Linux drivers. We couldnt get the kitchen sink in there. We hope to on the next version !.

As for Icing Up, its not ice. The camera attached to a scope will not produce any problems. What can occur depending on humidity and ambient temp, is when you place a reducer and filter with a spacer and mount it to to camera, the the air inside the spacer is now sealed. What happens now is the very cold sealed chamber of the CCD, will of course attract the warmer air inside the sealed spacer, and thus will dew a tiny spot on the outside of the chamber. This has occured to some people around the world. Some place a small dew heater around the spacer when they need to use a reduer or have high humidity.
But if procedure is followed and the items are placed inside a sealed box and the desicant is applied to them (Including the reducer and spacer) it will dry the air and prevent this happening.
Others just reduce the current to the peltier cooling and this also prevents any dewing within the spacer/reducer.
But the camera on its own attached to the scope will NOT dew, as the air is circulated within a larger area as apposed to a small air trap caused by sealing the air with an external filter or reducer.

Theo.

[Gama]

Well Rob, Regulation of the temperature is extremmly important when using the Kodak chips.
Why so ?, well, that image you see that i have linked has a specific pattern. The pattern changes with temperature, and shows less and less as you decrease temperature. So the noise is sort of producable again by apllying the same temperature, you can again show basically the exact same noise pattern. So if you image with a temp of say 5 minutes, then not only would you have imaged the sky for 5 minutes, but also the noise generated by 5 minutes. So by taking another exposure for the same time at the same temperature, you could remove this noise away from your image. So what is left is just your exposre more or less..

Because the noise pattern is really not evidant, and cant really see it unless you do extreme detail work, you wouldnt need to take dark frames.

Oh yeah, there have been some bananas, and you know who you guys are !!, have been removing the sealing filter/nosepiece while power is applied to the camera, and of course the camera dews up in a micro second.. When i asked why they did that, they mostly said, to clean the "DUST" !!. Gees.

Theo.

[Alchemy]

i spent some time today looking at images produced by the q8 and can say im impressed, thanks for answering the questions, one more... the output of the camera is it a raw a fits or what ? your website says 16 bit, forgive me if you think i havent done the research..... this is the research :D

[Prickly]

Hi Rob,

Had a run with a friends QHY8 at SPSP (see achromat image on chinese mount post on deep sky part of forum). It did drain the battery but boy was it good! They are very low noise.

A few points in discussion with Ken the owner
- you need to add in the cost of 12V power supply with the digital camera (they dont go long on batteries) and possibly a baader mod (close to same price?)
- no dark frames so more time to image.
Although I guess you may want to factor in a heavy duty battery!

I was very impressed but may end up going down a 450D/?40D path as our digital camera is on the way out anyway (but probably wont go the mod).
If I wasnt Id be pretty happy with a QHY8. Of course you keep seeing great results with the 40Ds too.

Cheers
David

[iceman]

Why do you need a baader mod on the QHY8? it's already allowing in h-a, right?

No dark frames is a big plus!

Watching this thread with interest..

[Alchemy]

efficiency up to 660nm is good, see gamas links below

cant see why you would build a dedicated camera for imaging that blocks Ha that would be silly to say the least. the images ive seen dont indicate any issue in that dept.... ha is somewhere around 620nm yeah?

[Gama]

I think he may be speaking about Narrow band work, im not sure.
The camera comes with either clear or a UVIR block, or both..
But many are using H.a only, etc..
As for power drainage, like i said, you can limit the current by either getting the DC-102 which will regulate the voltage via PWM to the Peltier, or just get a simple current regulator and run it in series to the peltier.
But gees, i think you will find the big cameras will chew power when its a dual stage cooling setup like the QHY-8.

Rob, the image is what ever software your using. It is a Raw image, and i use FIT in Maxim, then i either save the file or play around with it. You can even download it in BMP if you wanted..

Theo

[Astrod00d]

This is a fun thread alright. :)

So far, the vibe seems to be:
For dedicated astro imaging, get a QHY8.
For astro imaging and occasional terrestrial photography, get a modded 40d.
For terrestrial photography and start-up astro imaging, get a standard 40d.

Soooo... Which way are we going to jump? :whistle:

[Alchemy]

On the subject of reducers and field flatteners i take it attatching a mpcc is a simple affair..... probably should refer to the website but will pose it here anyway.

by way of 40d as a beginner entry camera, i think its way more than that, its a great camera good for all but the limited Ha targets, just i think the q8 has the edge for purely astro work ,cooling and pretty much modded response as standard., we are spoilt for choices these days 20 years ago this was only dreamt of.

[Gama]

Mike, like you said, no darks are a big plus.
How many times has anyone that has a camera with high noise, thought, hmmm, a nice night for imaging. Then thought, Oh poo, i have tosetup then setup bias, dark, LRGB (For mono sensors). Then thought, too mush trouble, leave it for now...
Gees, sounds like a "Set of Steak knives" commercial !.

But wait, theres more !!!!.

Seriously, all you do, is turn on the camera, while its cooling, setup your scope, pick what you want to image, connect the camera, run your software to focus the camera, then take a 2 minute exposure. Hmmm, looks good, but i will change the exposure to 5 minutes, click, click, time now set to 5 minutes and click to start exposing. 5 minutes later, theres your image. No re doing darks, no taking darks, no waiting a certain time to stabilize the sensor temp.
10 minutes later, move your scope to a very bright object, thats ok, change time to 30 seconds, click click, exposure ready in 30 seconds.

This is what i like about cameras that have low noise. I loved the Starlight Xpress SXVH-9 when i got it many years ago, for that reason.


Theo

[Gama]

Yes, i use a MPCC and a 50mm spacer for my 22" reflector. Screws straight on. The camera has "T" threads as standard on the Filter/nosepiece.

Theo.

[seeker372011]

I am still waiting for the skies to clear folks so I can post a first light report

I set up Saturday night-clear as anything, but by the time I had aligned the scope -bang completely clouded over

but if you want to se some great work with a Canon owner who has converted to a Qhy 8 look at

http://astroanarchy.blogspot.com/
Narayan

[Gama]

Doesnt have to be a QHY camera. Starlight Xpress have Sony sensors, as do some of the newer Meade units, etc.
Basically, Sony have the low noise CCD's.
Dont knock the DSLR as well, the chip in the Starlight and QHY are the same as the Nikon sensors used recently in their DSLR's.
Then theres the Canon CMOS sensors, here again, it has very very low noise and are just as good for imaging (Less cooling and dynamic range of course).

Theo

[Gama]

Very nice work, and as you know, you get better and better at it. Just because you have a great camera, doesnt mean you get great images.
This is an art, and has a learning curve. The junk i didnt save !.

Theo

[Alchemy]

darn im so convinced im working out how to get the cash asap... just about sold the vixen vc200l thats $800 closer- tidy up a few loose ends and im going to have to have a chat with mr Gama ....soon i hope.

just in case you dont think ive done any research.....
The QHY8 seems to be that rare thing amongst astro cooled CCD cameras - a bargain. At under £1500 it is well under half the price of an SXV M25 which has the same 6megapixel Sony ICX413AQ super HAD chip. Of course the M25 has additional features such as a guideport but the cameras share the same engine. I know from the H9 how well these Sony chips perform - extremely sensitive for a non blooming chip - max QE of 60% with sensitivity remaining good in the critical HA part of the spectrum. Plus very low noise. On paper at least, their performance is a level higher than ABG Kodak chips.

a quote i found.....

[iceman]

What's the AU price of the QHY8? I could go looking but i'm uploading a large file so my internet is extremely slow right now :)

[Astrod00d]

Hi Theo,
I saw all the drivers provided on your website, quite a list! But, my real question is what more will we have to spend on top of a QHY8 before we start imaging?
Do we need to purchase third party camera control and image capture software such as CCDSoft (USD349), AstroArt (USD185), MaximDL (USD399) or is there a simple and free image capture utility available? Perhaps I'm missing something obvious but I want to ask on this forum for the benefit of all. Bearing in mind that the 40d comes with great control/capture utilities included in the package.

[Alchemy]

2425 inc the government sanctioned theft.

box 55 nosepiece 40 odd plus couple cables etc

im hoping for a discount if i give it much more promo:D

[Astrod00d]

...I wonder about a group discount... An IIS QHY8 user group? Is that a silly idea? :lol:

[Gama]

Yes, there is 2 imaging programs.

The first is the factory (QHY) "AstroWin", which actually is a great imaging program.
It sets up the number of images, exposure times, Binning, etc.
For just taking images for processing later, this is a great program.

Then there is the software from Astrosoft ( www.astrosoft.com.be (http://www.astrosoft.com.be) ), it also comes with a Capturing program that has many features. Including focusing to a bees %$^# accurate.
So there is no software you need to buy to start imaging.
Once you have the files, lets say all Fit files, you could use one of the free programs out there that create you images into what you want it to be.
Many of them have stacking, filtering, etc..

Theo

[Prickly]

Hi Iceman / others,

Apologies if my last post was confusing.

I wasnt suggesting you would hutech modify a QHY8. It really pulls in the H-alpha well.

I was was trying to suggest that, based on my friends research that the cost of a:
40D+hutech mod+40D power supply for use in the field was roughly equivalent with the price of a QHY8.

Cheers
David

[Gama]

Prices vary according to what you want included.
I personally dont use a Sealed air box, but many do.
Do you need 2 filters ?, well i do, but some dont.
Do you need very long cables ?, i do, but some dont.
Do you need a power supply ?, some dont, some do.
So it sort of adds up, but i do keep prices realistic, so its affordable by many people.

http://web.aanet.com.au/gama/qhy8%20prices.html

But if you have your own supply, Its only $2425.50 inc GST (Plus $22.00 overnight Express delivery) for the basic camera, and your off !.

Theo

[Peter Ward]

O.K watched this thread with interest. Can anyone explain how a HAD sensor and differentiate a thermally liberated electron from one freed by a photon?

My understanding on this is: you can't.

A high QE sensor is rather like a high power amplifier. Crank it up and you'll hear a "hum". HAD sensors bleed charge all the time...O.K. low noise...but the signal is being bled as well.... in short they never really hum as the gain is being suppressed.

Yes, it does take some work to separate the signal from dark current in various sensors, but the results are worth it.

[Zuts]

Hi,

Taking darks with a regulated camera is not so much of a chore. After setting the temp, basically you can take them whenever you like, on the kitchen table on a rainy afternoon for example.

Once you have built up a good library of darks then its a simple processing step to callibrate your images, which generally you must do anyway to apply a flat frame.

Paul

[Gama]

Buy a vavle amp !. Even less hum.

Theo.

[Bassnut]

Theo, LOL, nice try, but hum has to do with gain/circuit layout/pwr supplies, not valve/solid state. Valves saturate with pleasing distortion characteristics, thats why they use em.

[Astrod00d]

Hmmmm... Valves and Vinyl... Material for a new thread!

[Gama]

Vavles will produce a purer sound that transistors. If only our cameras were built like that.. A bit heavy, but still.
Miss those old radios.

Heres a little snippet about valve..
"Engineering techniques invariably involve making compromises, eg. presence of HUM against overall ease of manufacturing, so that at home one can take extra steps to maximize hum rejection in otherwise well-built amplifiers. By observing every possible "injection" mechanism and making efforts to minimize each one can the overall hum index of a tube amp be brought down to nil. What follows is a synopsis of the work I do to tube amps to eliminate the hum without resorting to costly DC filament supply blocks."

Full readings about these baby's here : http://www.lynx.bc.ca/~jc/hum.html
I think most hum comes from our own hears after a concert !.

Theo.

[Bassnut]

hehe, a valve CCD cam, id be into that, results sort of like film you think?

[Gama]

Tell ya what, dont mismatch those cables.. Kaboom

theo

[RB]

So do we cool them or wait for them to heat up first?

:lol:

[Gama]

I work with Hi power Valves, and i mean HI POWER.
20Kw, 30 Kw, and 50Kw valves for the Broadcasting Stations.
They arent that big, and actually are prefered to Solid state. But they do have limited life, but they are smaller in total size.


A Valve cam, yeah, and you dont need to buy a power supply.
Just plug it straight in the wall socket !.
Gees, even park under high voltage power lines and toss over 2 cables.. Free power..

Theo

[Bassnut]

well, hum can be eliminated from any amp (valve or SS) with DC only supplies and sufficient shielding. The only hum scource then is from external (pickups etc). Pro studio audio uses low impeadance balanced inputs (unlike domestic) so hum is minimised by default.

[Bassnut]

sigh, a 50kw valve bass amp, Ill sleep on that one, sweet :thumbsup:

[KenGee]

I'm very happy with the Q8. It's true for most instances you don't have to worry about darks. Flats are important, and if your picky then do what I do. Have a master dark and a defect map.
Peter, if they put a Q8 on the hubble next service mission I'll promise to calibrate the raws as best I can.:rofl:

[Gama]

Im not sure what your trying to fault/compare, but hey lets add that NONE of the everyday Sony or Kodak sensors use Back illuminated technology. KAF sensors lose heaps of signal as do the Super Hads.

Every camera has its place and use, the KAF series have a place, the EV2 and the Sony sensors etc all have their place.

Theo.

[Aster]

Doesn't the latest version of Nebulosity support the QHY8 if you don't like the supplied software ?

[gbeal]

Yes it does, well on Windoze anyway. BUT it costs $45. Still cheaper than the listed alternatives.
Gary

[StardaddyEd]

Hi all. I just wanted to chime in a little from a different perspective. I just bought a Q453-HR which is a US modified version of the QHY8. I too was a looking to step up my astro imaging and started looking for a new camera. I came across the QHY8 which led me to CCD-Labs (the US distributor/modifier)(www.CCD-Labs.com (http://www.CCD-Labs.com)). At first I looked at the chip size and the price and thought this was one of the "too good to be true" cases. Most of the camera's I looked at were at least 3x more expensive. Even a camera that uses the exact same ccd chip. In my opinion the astrocamera market is over priced and the gravy train will be ending soon. The prices of the ccd/cmos chips keep fall and it is a matter of time before someone puts together a camera that is much cheaper than the competition. I think we are seeing the first of such offerings.

I contacted about 15 people that used the camera around the world and asked them about performance and the darks thing. Some of these people produce absolutely incredible images. All of them LOVED the camera. Most (if not all) had stopped taking darks or went the master dark and defect map route. My personal opinion is that the dark thing is a big deal considering that you should take at least five dark frames at each exposure length the get a good average noise. If you take a five minute exposure thats 25 minutes on darks alone. For those of us with limited time that is a big amount of time. Heaven forbid you take a 20 minute shot!

The Q453-HR version is modified slightly from the original. They seal the CCD in an argon purged cell to keep moisture out. They also sell the camera with the upgraded cooling power supply that lets you control the current to the camera. They do this not because of cooling control (it is not close loop controlled) but to be able to step back on the power consumption. They also include Nebulosity in the deal. The down side is delivery time is 3 to 4 weeks.

I started a Yahoo group http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/QHYCCD/join Feel free to join the group and share. We are small right now but we will get bigger!

Ed

[iceman]

Excellent information, Ed! Thanks and :welcome: to IceInSpace.

[Alchemy]

and about time. competition will make them all rethink their strategy, if this qhy8 takes off with the Ice In Space crowd like i think it will, it will corner the intermediate market for a little while- there will still be a part of the market that will pay premium for cutting edge technology.

[Zuts]

I am still very happy with my second hand SBIG2000 XCM for 2100 AUD landed.

includes
Pelican case, 200 AUD value
The Sky, 200 AUD value
CCDSoft, 300 AUD value
EOS adaptor, 50 AUD value

Built in self guiding, saves having to buy a guide camera and guide scope, 500 AUD value and no flexure.

:)

Paul

[iceman]

What's the resolution of the XCM?

[netwolf]

I think the XCM is lower resolution but it makes up for it with bigger pixels. At 2100 landed thats a real bargain.

[Astrod00d]

Almost 2MP..
From Optcorp:

CCD: Kodak KAI-2020CM + TI TC-237H
Pixel Array: 1600 x 1200 pixels, 11.8 x 8.9 mm
Total Pixels: 1.92 million
Pixel Size: 7.4 x 7.4 microns
Full Well Capacity (Unbinned): ~45,000 e-
Full Well Capacity (Binned): ~90,000 e-
Dark Current: 0.1e-/pixel/sec at 0° C
Antiblooming: StandardAUD2100, even 2nd hand, is still a bargain.

[monoxide]

im looking at getting a QHY8 soon too and was wondering how a baader mpcc would go with it?
im guessing id need a spacer to keep the proper distance from the chip

[Gama]

The MPCC is fine, i use a spacer and the MPCC with the QHY-8, 20D, and the Nikon D200 on my 22" f4.5 and it does an excellent job to "Round up them there stars partners !".

Theo.

[monoxide]

thanks Theo,
i might give you a call next week sometime to get some more info on the QHY-8

[Alchemy]

Glad you are happy with your purchase, look forward to some good images:)

i might ask what would the package you have listed be worth brand new?

i have to say though i prefer to use more megapixels as i am now used to the digital and dont want to go to a smaller field and have all the guiding gear etc, still i respect your personal choice.

[Alchemy]

is there someone that sells a ready made spacer kit?

[monoxide]

bintel have televue spacers but they are 50 bux each or a set of 4 for 170
that all depends if they have the actual spacer needed though, it shouldnt be that hard to work out aslong as you know the distance from the chip to the t-ring

[gbeal]

Alchemy,
I use a selection of the Baader T ring extensions, available from Baader dealers, but in my case, via Alpine Astro in the US. I have the 7mm, and the 15mm. I could do with some more.
Gary

[Astrod00d]

MyAstroShop have T-spacers in the $20 to $30 range

http://www.myastroshop.com.au/products/cam-adapt.asp?ProdID=MAS-393

Cheers,

Rob

[avandonk]

As someone who has pushed a Canon 5DH to the limits I congratulate the designers and GAMA etc for the QHY8. This sort of technology used to cost many tens of thousands of dollars.

We can all waste our time arguing about where the stray electrons come from. It is far better to go out and image.

Everything we do is a compromise. We just have to work out which compromise is the best one for our needs.

We imagers have never had it so good as far as choice is concerned.

Once all the parameters have been optimised for the QHY8 it should be a very good astro camera.

I look foward to seeing more images.

Bert

[Alchemy]

sounds just about right i reckon.