I'm baaack

[Crash Nebula]

Hello! I'm back after a while of.. not being here!
Anyway, my cash stands at $430. In 2 weeks i will have $538. In another two weeks, I'll have $646. Woo, I'm loaded.
Anyway, I've been looking at Andrew's Dobs, but I'm getting pulled towards the Reflecting Scopes on EQ mounts and such.
these are the scopes and their stats ive been pulled towards.

Guan Sheng GS-500
$499.00 AUD

Absolutely outstanding quality and value 150mm x 750mm parabolic mirror Newtonian reflector on the SV1 high grade medium duty equatorial mount with aluminium tripod. Optional single axis motor drive with hand controller $149.

Saxon
FR1400X150
Optical Design: Reflector
Diameter: 150mm
Focal Length: 1400mm
F/ratio: f/9
Finderscope: 6x30
Focuser Diameter: 1.25" R&P
Mount Type: EQ3
Accessory Tray: Yes
Tripod: Aluminium
Motor Drive: Single Axis
Price - $685

Brand: Skywatcher
Price: $499
- Aluminized and overcoated mirrors.
- Short tube Catatdioptric-Newtonian design.
- 6x30 achromatic finderscope for easy location of
objects.
- 10mm and 20mm Super eyepieces.
- EQ2 German Equatorial Mount.
- Includes RA Drive.
- Long effective focal length (1000mm) packed in a
compact optical tube
- Smooth rack-and-pinion 1.25" focuser.
- 130mm primary mirror collects 30% more light
than a 114mm, revealing more space treasure
with better resolution and brighter image.
- Lighter and more portable than classic long-tube
design.

Guan Sheng GS-680-LTD
$399.00 AUD

200mm x 1200mm reflector on a dobsonian mount.

Guan Sheng GS-880-LTD
$649.00 AUD

250mm x 1250mm reflector with 2" Crayford style focuser on a dobsonian mount.

What does everyone think? I'm happy to be back.

Cheers
P.S - H0ughy - Good pic in July '05 Aus S&T

[Starkler]

Welcome back :)

What do you get by buying a cheap eq mounted scope over spending the same amount on a dobsonian?


less intuitive and more difficult pointing. Having to rotate the tube and contort yourself into odd positions to look into the eyepiece.
a much heavier and more cumbersome setup due to counterweights etc
a less stable platform causing wobbles and difficult focusing. Using such a scope at high magnifications will be frustrating.
less money being devoted to aperture and optics. You really want the most aperture you can afford.
Ok you do get tracking but forget astrophotography with such mounts, its really not hard to track with a dob after a small amount of practice


There seems to be a perception that a dobsonian is a poor mans scope that is lacking. This is unfortunate. Why throw any of the limited resources into a crappy cheap mount and make life difficult for yourself?

There is certainly one scope you should NOT buy. The fr1400x150 acheives its 1400mm focal length by means of a built in plastic barlow and has a spherical mirror ie it is optical trash definately to be avoided.

[Crash Nebula]

Guan Sheng GS-880-LTD
$649.00 AUD

250mm x 1250mm reflector with 2" Crayford style focuser on a dobsonian mount.

I'm gonna go with that one. Might have to save up for a few more weeks but I think its the best choice.

[Starkler]

You wont be dissapointed. The GS dobs are easily the best bang for the buck deal going in Australia these days :thumbsup:

Are you sure the LTD comes with a crayford focuser?

There have been recent threads on eyepiece choices for this scope too. Take some time to look so you can choose the right ones when it comes time to place your order.

[Crash Nebula]

Will do! Thanks for the help, Geoff.

[[1ponders]]

At that price I'd be inclined to stay away from the EQ mount Charlie. I have an EQ3/4 (different people tell me different thinks :) ) and there would be no way I would put a 1400 x 150 scope on it. I would consider it just barely suitable for my 1000 x 102 refractor. Too much lever arm movement (ie the damn thing wobbles everytime I try to focus it. Well it did until I made a few mods to it.)

[fringe_dweller]

WB crash - and Starklers reply re dobs should be THE standard reply to this question - excellent summation! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: I used friends cheap homemade eq mount for years with large reflector - and it was horrible - i find dobs to be incredibly easy to use
Kearn

[asimov]

Well let's see now....Everyone's entitled to their opinion's....I actually agree with most of these point's....My only comment is: If it IS an EQ your thinking about buying..never under-mount the OTA!

[cristian abarca]

To crash nebula sorry I don't know your name. I was given one of those saxon telescopes 150mm x 1400mm and I must say that they are not very good. the mount is very wobbly and the telescope is not constructed very well. Definitely go for something else. I have only been at this game for about seven months and 3 months ago I decided that I was going to build my own telescope because the one that I have is not good enough. It,s going to be a dobsonian for the moment. I have looked through a few dobsonians and I agree with starkler dobs are good value for money. Stick with a dob.

Regards Cristian

[Crash Nebula]

It's ok, Cristian, alot of people forget my name :lol2:
My sig should explin it to you. if it doesn't, Hi! My name is Charlie Donaldson and I'm 14 years old.
I'm not going to go with a EQ anymore - I'm going to get a 8" dob - cheap, big aperture and easy to use. I will probably order it through the week.

YAY! I'm gonna be a scope owner - My dream for 8 months.

Cheers

[cristian abarca]

Nice to meet you Charlie I wish I was as young as you when I got my first scope. Good move on the dob.

regards Cristian

[Crash Nebula]

I'm glad I actually listen in science - this year we aren't doing Astronomy but last year I was hanging on the teachers every word to get in more about it.
I'm doing multi-strand science in my senior years and then I wanna study it at Uni.

Cheers

[elusiver]

Get the 8" dob.. for a newb.. u won't be dissapointed!!! Don't forget to get a cheshire though.. and if you know an experienced astonomer near you or you feel comfortable doing it yourself u'll have to centre spot u'r primary.

el :)

[davidpretorius]

Good stuff Charlie, I have my 10" ltd dob with crayford from andrews arriving into tassie in a few days time. I actually was reading your posts that had linked to google and it lead me to this site. I reckon these dobs will be a great start!. Keep saving, get some good eyepieces, then maybe a really good heavy duty eq mount!

[asimov]

Quote:WB crash - and Starklers reply re dobs should be THE standard reply to this question - excellent summation! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: I used friends cheap homemade eq mount for years with large reflector - and it was horrible - i find dobs to be incredibly easy to use
Kearn Unquote..

No dis-respect to the mate that made it Kearn, or you...but...Therefore he didn't make it CORRECTLY? Wasn't the EQ mounts fault it was made by an inexperienced mount builder. If the mount is correctly made & not UNDESIZED for the OTA, it would not have been 'horrible' to use! In fact, it would have been a pleasure to use? It would be interesting to put you directly in front of a well made one...and THEN ask your opinion on it's operation directly compared to a dob mate..:D ;)

[fringe_dweller]

No offence taken John :) it is all just robust and healthy debate/discussion! This eq mount I am referring to had no gearing - it was just free moving and you used wing nut bolts to lock the two axis's (sic?) or apply some pressure to slow movement or lock it. It was strong enough for the f6 210mm reflector/steel tube weight wise. I am just not a fan of eq's for pure visual use full stop, I dont like how ALL EQ's work at zenith for a start - dont forget I have been using my mates medium quality Vixen GP (with SC) for 10 years as well, and I still do use it now, and I still dont like it for visual use in a lot of positions for a few reasons I have mentioned before. I'm sorry but I have to ask you John have you ever used a dobsonian mount with large reflector? Besides that old homemade eq mount of my friends design contributed in a big way to costing my friend a comet discovery (long story- it was at zenith) and that really ticks me off to this day. So I am not totally impartial I guess.
I didnt like that eq in high winds with high power as Geoff mentioned (not that dobs are perfect in wind - but there a lot better IMO) and I dont like the portabilty of an eq mount heavy/strong enough for a large newtonian. Not all of us live conveniently at superb dark sky sites mate :).
I know from seeing your design yours is vastly superior to the old homemade one we used to use with the 8" and I respect your opinion and experience with these beasts. But yours is in permanent situ I understand? The majority of the newbies are from the cities and towns on this forum? and may need to travel to dark skies on occasion? Thats all I meant.
Cheers
Kearn Dob Worshipper
EDIT: forgot - my first two cheap scopes, dept. store 3 inch and classic tasco 4.5" reflector were on eq's and I hated them too! So i have used 4 different eq's and they all crap - except for photography - and then their a necassary evil IMO!

[asimov]

G'day Kearn Ol' mate! Thanks for your reply....okkk!....No gearing on mine either...it's a 'push-to' IN ONE AXIS ONLY;) There's EQ mounts...then theres EQ mounts (as we know & I'm not saying mine is the best out there) The main thing to remember when building one of these is the bearings...if there massive...& I mean massive! The smoother the action..I'm also talking top quality bearings too. less friction..& stiction.. I wont bore you with any more construction details here. Iv'e never had any trouble at the zenith. But I do when the scope's pointed close to the south celestial pole. The only 'dob' Iv'e ever used was a home made one...but before they were ever called a dob, lol. Biggest piece of JUNK I ever had the misfortune of using! Just like your mate's EQ mount...same scenerio...So I'm open to the suggestion that a GOOD dob mount is good to use? Proof's in the pudding right? If dobs were junk, they wouldn't be so popular correct?

I'll cut to the chase...The one & only advantage that an EQ mount has over a dob...IMHO I'll repeat that...IMHO :D & I'm talking un-driven here! is it is EASIER to 'nudge' by hand to track the object because the EQ (once set up for polar alignment) Your only nudging on one axis. And that, my dear chap..is Why I own one! That's my one & ONLY reason! lol. :D (oh, & for piccie taking later once it's driven)

Yes it's permanent cos' of my dark skie's....If I had to move the damn thing to a paddock 20 kliks down the road, I would be very annoyed! Max time to break the mount down & throw it in the boot is precisely 19.75 minutes! :thumbsup:
Set-up is longer.

You know, if there was a brand new DRIVEN EQ mount & a brand new DRIVEN dob mount sitting in front of me, & I had to choose which one to buy...given all the info Iv'e gathered over the year's..IE: Dob mount is cheaper to construct...expensive to drive. EQ mount is expensive to make...cheap to drive. And before anyone jumps on that comment...;) I will be proving you can drive a mount such as mine for 50 lousy bucks...a bold statement??....we'll see. If It's a failure, or costs any more than that I'll admit it freely! :thumbsup: Sorry, went off on a tangent....back to which mount I would choose. :confuse3: I can't tell you till I have my EQ sitting 10 feet from your dob. One day mate..one day soon! ;) Given ALL factors such as ease of transportation & all other factor's...The dob is BETTER! How's that grab ya!? :D I still love my EQ though!!:wink2: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Thank's for the stimulating discussion! Love it love it!

One more thing. American's have a saying: "I'd rather be seen pushin' my Harley than ridin' my rice burner!" ;)

[fringe_dweller]

Dobs V EQ's - is there no end to this madness??!! heheh :D - I can only speak from my experiences - but you do put your case well John, i understand your points clearly - its the hatfields versus the mcoys feud and we know how that ended? jk jk Dobs do take a little getting use to at first - you may not of gone beyond that initial short learning curve - i have no problems tracking mate :) but i have spent hundreds/thousands? of hours using them, so it is very easy to me.
Kearn

[asimov]

Remember the mortein add? 'When your on a good thing....stick to it'

[janoskiss]

If you just want a good quality but inexpensive see-if-I-like-it scope, get the 200mm Dob for under $400. You really can't go wrong with that one. Even if you grow bored of the hobby, you can probably get most if not all your money back reselling the scope and the EPs.

I think that EQ mounts under $1000 are no good for anything other than small scopes (<= 80mm refractor) and visual, with manual one axis tracking (which I am very fond of, even with my very cheap EQ mount).

PS. I wish I had one of them dob mates. Where can I get one?

Dob/unguided deep space and planetary astrophotography is coming soon... to a website near you... ||:-'-,-'-,-'-,-'-,:||