Anybody like a Free Remote Shot?

[Aussie Pete]

G'day :)

I was wondering if any of the members of IIS would like to come play on a new GRAS remote telescope
at Moorook South Australia? If its cloudy at home give it a go!

You'll be using a Takahashi Sky90 on PME with SBIG ST-2000XMC colour camera.
We have a new feature called "One Click" imaging, we'd like to test well before release, and you guys
can be amongst be first to try it if you like. Only take 10min of your time and I'd like to hear your thoughts too.

All you need is your Internet browser and something to edit the RBG FITS file.
Also the GRAS InfoCenter application to login. Its supplied with your
login details.

Do let me know with a private message if you prefer or just reply to
this post anytime in the next week or so guys..numbers will be limited and thanks ahead of
time too.

Cheers Pete

[Zuts]

PM Sent :)

[Gargoyle_Steve]

I'd certainly love to give it a go!

I haven't sone any astro photography previously, and I've been involved in alpha & beta testing of various systems (none like this though!) previously, so I'm hoping my experience with the system may provide beneficial feedback.


Steve

[Garyh]

another PM sent :)
cheers Gary

[Zuts]

Hi Pete,

I dont know how many pm's you have recieved but I am surprised this thread is so dead. Anyway, if you dont get enough replies, i would be very happy to 'help' more than once :)

Paul

[skwinty]

Hi Pete
Would love to give it a try here in Cape Town.
Most generous offer!:thumbsup:

[JethroB76]

Would be happy to give it a go Pete.

Jeff

[Aussie Pete]

hehehe..thanks Zuts :)

I been plenty busy with IIS PMs mate. Thanks to all you folks :) Thumbs up to you IIS. Our Beta testers are often asked to give a new system or feature a thorough shakedown.

I will give more detail just before the G13 telescope begins taking its first users, but in short this test is for a totally "One Click" set exposure (300secs) option we are adding to our system. Yes.. you may well have more than one opportunity to image but this depends on time and weather.

Cheers and thanks for the great response IIS. Pete...

(...and our betatesters are sometimes rewarded with ongoing private scope time..dont tell anyone)

[Aussie Pete]

G'day Folks.

Well I've had a great response and have over a dozen IIS'ers included in the Betalist. My thanks.

I still have plenty of room, with the scope/code ready test online in about a fortnight. About new moon time I hope :)

So let me again extend an invitation to any IIS members, to have a lash and hopefully surprise yourself. Go remote for a little bit. The busier the system the more likely one of you will do us a favour and try to break the telescope. Your experience with any problems will be valuable to us too. So be honest when we ask..hehe

Betatesters at this stage are lots of Aussies, Kiwis and even a few Poms and a Springbok :)

Cheers

Pete

[dannat]

count me in

[h0ughy]

Hey Pete, it would be a pleasure to test it. probably prove whether or not its idiot proof

[madwayne]

Count me in too please Pete, sounds like a fantastic opportunity.

Many thanks in advance.

Regards
Wayne

[gbeal]

LOL, just make sure Huff is last, as he is sure to bust it.
Gary

[h0ughy]

now Gary how can i bust it if i am no where near it:whistle:

[Meadehead]

If there is any room left, I'd love to be included.

[bluescope]

I would be happy to have a go so count me in if there is a place left, thanks.

:thumbsup:

[AlexN]

if theres a spot left... I'll fill it up!!! keen as to give it a fly

[Aussie Pete]

Morning folks :)

I'd like to thank all of you that applied for a spot on our beta-tester list. The response has been IIS friendly and enthusiastic to say the least :) I will close the list tonight and start processing the many applications I have in my Inbox. So today is the last chance to signup.

According to the GRAS software dept, we will be ready to let you loose on the system in about a fortnight, with 50 points in your accounts. Thats good for one hour worth of time on G13. You can use it all up in one session or use it 5min at a time over a few weeks. Either way when done please let me know how it went and we'd love to see your results too.

Ok, thats it for now. I will be processing the beta test accounts soon and the testers can expect an email with login details before the system is plugged in. Log into telescope G13 (when it appears) via the your InfoCenter and check the Aussie weather page before you start shooting. I will post here in the days prior to activation folks.

Be patient and thanks again IIS.

Pete

[netwolf]

How did i miss this, Pete i would like to have a go if there are spots still available.

[monoxide]

:eyepop:dont tell me i missed this :doh:

lucky buggers :p

[Garyh]

Awesome Pete!
Can`t even imagine how much work goes into setting up a GRAS!
cheers Gary

[Aussie Pete]

Gday G13 testers :)

Ok, strictly speaking this post is aimed at the many G13 Beta testers hereabouts...hi guys.

Also this saves me sending out many many separate private emails all over the globe, to give you this 'nearly there' message..my apologies & thanks to IIS mods :|

G13 is plugged in and within the next few days we will be letting you rip. Hopefully all of you have the InfoCenter application and are familar more or less with the interface and stuff.

I will be sending a link to you soon so you can enter your beta registration, then your in. You will receive an activation email immediately so check that Inbox.

50 points on G13 (1hr of exposures) to use up on the 'One Shots' at your leisure when she opens.

These are 5 minute, single shot RGB intergrations on a SBIG ST2000XMC. So get that FOV setup going in your planetarium software. Full Colour in hi-res 800x600 JPEG format emailed direct to you on completion. Its a pretty simple way to take snap shots of currently visible southern objects. This imaging option will be for future young users at schools and 'Astronomy Lite' casuals.. I know you guys are nothing like non-astronomers but have some fun...though with your critical eyes and experience you can tell us if its working.

Keep those outright beginners your test piloting for in mind though. I'd prefer your personal feedback PM'd to me please, but your free to discuss results in public i imagine. The images are your property after all. This might hurt.. :)

Keep the scope busy and have fun together too :)

I will post the starting link very soon. Thanks all of you team, and my gratitude to the IIS community.

Clear skies and enjoy a taste of pure remote...

Pete
PS. New Online InfoCenter. Once you login you can dump the old application guys.

[Omaroo]

Pete - I've taken you up on your generous offer and taken two shots. I like the interface, as it's intuitive enough not to have to delve through tons of instructions just to get going.

I also like the fact that you see the script running in real time. There's a lot going on! I'm not sure that you can as a registered (read: paid-up) user, but what would be nice is to have the ability to have the system send you an email or SMS as soon as the scope is free - if you haven't booked it in advance. Otherwise you sit there and refresh your screen until you see it's free. Maybe a display of who's in the queue would be a nice touch. It's all just development of an already fine product.

The Sky90 gives a nice wide aspect, but am thinking that it'd also be nice to have sample "one-click" shots that show the expected FOV with that scope superimposed on the sample thumbnails. I took one of M104 and it's pretty small in the image frame - to be expected if you know the Sky90, but maybe a surprise to others.

I also found it a little confusing to get my hires image from the FTP section. I can't find my user name listed so I can't download it. I got the low-res 800x600 email attachments OK, but would like to see the larger files. I'm sure I've done something wrong in the way I tried to grab them.

Here are the two samples I took. 10 minutes each and supplied back via email. 800x600 and about 150kb.

1) M104

2) NGC4038

[AlexN]

I have not yet been able to access G13 at all... cant find any link or reference to it in the gras info center, apart from when i log in it says Membership level : G13 Trial.

Any ideas?

[h0ughy]

Chris I havent had time to test it yet but looking at the field of view i look forward to doing a bright area to compare with a dslr. I would have thought there would have been a booking system that was viewable though, i was unaware of that aspect?

[Omaroo]

Alex - when G13 changes its status to "Free", then click on that link to it. You'll then be taken to a new page after logging on that displays a menu on the left. Take the "single shot" option and choose a target. You only have access to these established targets as a trial member, or that's the impression I'm under. Choose one and see it all happen!

[Omaroo]

David - I gather that you have booking access privileges after you actually join up for real - but not as a trial user.

[AlexN]

This is where the problem comes into play... The ONLY place where i see anything about the G13 scope is where it says my membership type as G13 Trial.

There is no other reference to the G13 ANYWHERE in the info center.

[Omaroo]

Alex - I take it you're on the right page, and already logged in:

http://gis.global-rent-a-scope.com/Default.aspx

See the attached screenshot - I've circled where it will say "Free" when it is. At this very moment it's daytime so the shop is shut - so it says "Closed: Day Time". When it says "Free" in green it is a link.

[AlexN]

I was using the gras info center program installed on my computer... the web address you've provided shows G13... :)


Cheers Chris

[mark3d]

as soon as i saw this i thought it was an awesome idea. just signed up and took 2 images.. very impressive! thanks!

at some stage i will definitely sign up and play with some of the other scopes.

all the best with the venture.

[AlexN]

Well... I'm very impressed at how easy it all is... and am seriously considering buying some more time!


I imaged IC4592 as there was no image of it in starry night pro, and now I can add one :)

Thanks



EDIT::

Had plenty of spare time... Took one of M20 as well.

[Aussie Pete]

Hi G13 testers :)

Well its gone pretty well so far, though Houghy has not logged on yet. So G13 is still in one piece at this stage :)

Firstly i'd like to make a correction and an apology. I wrongly assumed that the developers would have a FITs file for users to access, I was wrong.

They designed the G13 system to deliver the simple and economic JPEG format instead. No FITs files or FTP folders for the tests. Sorry guys. But if your a non-astronomer I still think the you'd would be happy with the snaps.

Some of the targets will need to be edited we feel, as the scales are all over the place. Many targets are too small. I have asked the IT guys to increase the image size a little as well. Or are we just spoilt? :)

We also upped the exposure times from 300 to 600 seconds in order to get a little more colour and depth.

Thanks to all of you for the great feedback so far, and i hope you get a few more shots in. Save a shot or two for a futire comet or nova :) xcross fingers..

I'd just like to say that although it would be a pleasure to take on testers as full members, that was NOT the intention here at all. We really needed a bunch of old hands to log onto the scope and give it a good wringing out that first night or two. And you did that very well with over 26 IIS'ers going at it during the first night. Thanks.

Cheers ...Pete

[h0ughy]

Hey i did log on -although it wasnt as straight forward as i thought I decided to do what most normal people would do - and not read the instructions.

the point and click scripts were good - but very limiting. Looked for some regular bright objects that are up (apart from eta) and would have liked m20 et al to select but that were not available. so I took these.

Disliked the booking system and the fact you cant stack shots - but i suppose that was built into the test:whistle:

[Aussie Pete]

Onya Houghy.. brutal..thanks.. :)

I must have missed your session..but she survived it huh? .. hehe

Well I think the reason M20 was not on the One Shot list was that scope's AI had it below its minimum horizon when you got on..can you tell me what elevation it was?

Booking system is a high level user (time critical) service for the most part.

Stacking subs is not really part of the G13 mission.

Cheers mate..thanks

Pete

[h0ughy]

around 20-25 degrees? it was about 10pm

[Brad Moore]

Hi All,

I would firstly like to thank Pete and Mike for allow me to offer this beta trial to you guys.

For those who don't know me I'm the guy who has put this service together. I have been reading the feedback and its very helpful.

If you have any questions you want answered, fire away I would only be to happy to answer. ;)

Best Regards
Brad Moore

[Aussie Pete]

Ahh well...

RTFM Houghy.. :) hehe

Min Alt for imaging is 30-35deg sir. What you live on the Nullaboor??

visit the FAQ if you get the chance:
http://gras.gras.wikispaces.net/FAQ+

Thanks for being a pain :) lol

Pete

[middy]

I signed up last night and took this image of M83 (the best image I have ever taken of M83, even with the JPG compression artefacts :P). I found the whole process easy to understand and follow. Pick a target from the list and press a button. The ultimate in armchair astrophotography, I didn't even have to put down my latte. :)

The status update page looked impressive and obviously a lot of work has gone into it. :thumbsup::thumbsup:

I have now used up my free trial subscription and have 4 images of M83.
The first image is a single shot of M83, the second is a stack of 4 images using Iris (Note: the images are JPEG with heavy compression)

[netwolf]

Firstly thanks Pete for this great opportunity to use this service.

I logged in just now and did 2 images.

Very easy system to use. Can be warm and comfortable in my room and use this service, no cold or polar alignment and setup of equipment.

Couple of suggestions, need some kind of realisitic preview of the object in the current FOV. The Thumbnails are misleading, better to have a popup when you mouse over the thumbnail that displays a realistic version from a library.

Perhaps a 2nd level could be access to raw data, this would help people in my situation a lot. Where I am learning to Image process, but dont have access to good data yet from my own instruments. So while i work on getting my own data, i can at least learn to process with some good data from your equipment. This will also help us learn a bit about the Target object.

Is there a Reason why Omega Centauri is not on the list? Its so close to Centaurus A and yet not there to select.

Lastly the formating of the automated emails could use some work. The receipt is very confusing as the columns etc are all over the place.


Thats about it really. Again thanks for the opportunity. I will try again if i have any balance left in the next few days.

And here are my pics. Centaurus A and Cats Paw Nebulae.

Regards
Fahim

[Gargoyle_Steve]

Doing my best to keep these guidelines for this kid of astro-imaging in mind.... and I need to say "Thank You very much" for allowing me to be a part of this experience, I have enjoyed it very much, and I hope my feedback turns out to be of value to you.

I am a complete astro-imaging newbie, the most I've done is try go hold my camera somewhere near the focuser of my dob and take afocal pics - and of 20-30 attempts at photographing the moon there's maybe 3 I'd actually show people. Enough said about my background (or distinct lack of it!)
:lol:

First off the control centre seems very complete, rather than approach it as a "prepared" user I took the "they ain't gonna read all the paperwork stuff" route instead to best simulate what I felt many future users may do.

I do have to say that my belief has always been that well written software should be pretty intuitive, ie just enough options and controls to do the job, not so many as to become cumbersome or confusing, and I have to say that I think you guys have pretty much got this right.
(With some qualifications on this down below).

The software layout WAS easy to come to grips with and I had no problem actually taking images. I had already committed and the first image was underway when it occurred to me that I hadn't checked the weather info again, so with thoughts of imaging clouds in mind I was pleased to see a clear image resulted.

Feedback point: As much as the "1-2-3-4" step box works well maybe there should be an extra step or 2, one of those being "Remember to check the cloud/weather page before taking control / committing to a target".

Feedback point: This did raise another query I had at this point - there's 3 big visible circles that you can click on to "Release Observatory", "Abort Script" and "Control Observatory", however as I found out along the way for this kind of image selection it wasn't necessary to do "Control.." to take a pic, and in fact having done so I was using up my (free ;)) points while I waited for the target list to update, and then read and select a target. A paying user may find that irritating, and while again admitting I didn't read the Wiki or any other "instructions" in preparation for this I felt that perhaps there could have been clearer indication that target selection ONLY was required.

Putting that aside, the system really was very easy to use, and it really is a tribute to those who have designed and set it up. I have been to astro gatherings and seen imagers have enormous problems simply setting up their polar alignment and then sometimes having problems with making every single bit of hardware interface correctly along the way. This set up is SO SIMPLE and SO EASY to produce an image in under 15 minutes from go to "Whoa, it's in my inbox" it's amazing.

I found it interesting to watch the script process running each and every time, seeing the various steps taken which to be honest I would never have guessed that some of those steps existed ("flushing auto-guider" for instance).

Now, having said it was SO easy to actually capture an image, what I personally found was that of the 4 images I squeezed out of my 60 points (with 1 point to spare) although the image quality was, I thought, amazing (ie 600 seconds minutes exposure = 2.5 ° tracking, all stars pinpoint round, etc) I really was a bit disappointed with the actual CONTENT of some of my images. I'll explain why image by image.....

[Gargoyle_Steve]

My first image was of IC4721, chosen I must admit because the thumbnail guide image in the selection list looked intriguing. Having no idea as to the actual Field of View of this scope/camera combination it was a bit of an experiment, however in hindsight I'm not quite sure why this object was included on the target list. If you look at the actual image result below the galaxy in question is a tiny smudge buried amongst a fairly even and plain starfield.

I understand that this is meant to be a beta test of the actual system, and not a means of gathering "pretty pictures" but if this list is meant to be indicative of what will be available as pre-selected targets for the " future young users at schools and 'Astronomy Lite' casuals" then I think either some objects need to be rethought, or as Fahim mentioned previously (and I think this is a VERY good idea) there should either be a truly indicative thumbnail image to show the relative size of the object, or at least some clearly labelled idea of the size of the image field of view AND add a column to the object table which shows the approximate size of each object.

[Gargoyle_Steve]

My 2nd image was of NGC6559, an object I was unfamiliar with, again I found the thumbnail provided to be intriguing, and now being aware of the much wider field of view than first anticipated I thought this may well work out better. To be honest I think I prefer this image to any other I "captured".

The image / object size ration worked out well, and I'm glad to say that the "enhanced" 600 second exposures you gave us (up from 300) would have made a big difference to his object. As can be seen below some nebulosity is visible in the image, especially the brighter "band" seen underneath the bright double star that lays dead centre of the image. I've compared this to the APOD image found here (http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap011023.html), and as much as I would have like to have seen maybe my exposure maybe doubled again to bring out more detail, the APOD image looks almost "too nebulous" after looking at "mine"
:rofl:

[Gargoyle_Steve]

The 3rd object I captured was one of my favourites, NGC4755 aka the Jewel Box.
I was aware it would look small in the field of view but I was keen to see how the colours that make it famous would come out.

Well .... the colours didn't work well at all. I had guesstimated that a 600 second exposure may be too much for this object, so I had a hunt around to see if I could find a way to change that setting.

Nope ..... I couldn't find a way to change the exposure time beforehand, and once you pick the target and press "submit" that seems to be that, it's all underway. The result here was somewhat overexposed and drained of colour.

Was there a way I could have changed this, or was it all totally "pre-programmed"?

Again I understand that this was a test of the overall system, how easy it is to comprehend and use, etc, and I am grateful of the chance to have captured ANY images at all, but I think that in the end what future users will want is a pleasing end result, not just the novelty of accessing such a system remotely, and so I mention the things that I believe other users will find lacking.

[Gargoyle_Steve]

4th image - Omega Centauri is another of my favourites, so when scanning down the "common name" column of the target list when I saw it I clicked on submit straight away. If you look at the image result there is no sign of Omega Centauri there at all ... reason being that the actual "Designation" column lists NGC 5193 whereas Omega Cent is actually NGC 5139 ... so what I have instead if an image of a tiny 13th mag galaxy (a binary galaxy apparently) as seen here (http://www.skyfactory.org/deepskycatalogue/NGC5193.html), and yes you can see the 2 of them if you look really closely).

So this one was down to a bad typo on the target list, I fully suspect it was always supposed to be OmegaCent and the NGC number was the mistake.
This wasn't the only mistake on the list, the Carina Nebula and listed NGC number didn't correspond either.

This is STILL a very good quality picture indeed! :thumbsup:
However again I'll mention that those who will eventually pay to use this service will want images of the objects that they have selected.

[Gargoyle_Steve]

Last comment, I promise!
(listening to the crowds cheering..... :rolleyes:)

During the set up period Pete you messaged me at one stage saying you needed me to send my email address as you didn't have it. Well it turns out the address I sent was slightly different to the first one I had given you (one apparently as Steve, and one as Stephen as well), both valid, so I actually ended up receiving 2 emails with a registration link.

I DID feel a little bit "taken" by the Omega Cent mix up, so I did register the 2nd account as well and took a fifth image. :whistle: I wasn't trying to con you or take system time away from paying users but I wanted to try the system one more time.

This time I selected an open cluster, Ptolemy's aka M7, as my last target. Being a broader object I figured the image size would work well.

And it did! There's a good visual impression of the relative brightness and density of this cluster as compared to the surrounding star field. Yet again the "click and shoot" system that you guys have set up worked flawlessly in acquiring, tracking, focusing and capturing the target. Again the image is as sharp as, and I can only wonder at the engineering precision that permits such tracking.

Please feel free to close down my second account (sdevine4631) as I won't access that again. I promise! :ashamed:

So - final wrap up - the system is brilliant, near fool proof, and so easy to use to capture an image that I'm still stunned thinking about it. There's a couple of minor bits of "spit and polish" in terms of the end user target selection / sizing issues that should be looked at perhaps, but all in all an easy and fast way to capture REAL astro images with no previous experience and no technical knowledge necessary.

Once again thanks very much for giving me the opportunity to try this system out. As a purely visual observer I can say that any occasional urges to want to image "something" could now happily be vented using your GRAS
system, and at a price where I could take many images and never coem close to spending what it would cost me to buy a solid mount, suitable telescope, quality camera, upgrade laptop to run it all, etc, etc.

:thumbsup:

[tino]

This sounds great as a Freebee but what are the actual costs as a proper customer?

[Brad Moore]

Hi Fahim,

Glad you are enjoying the service. Thanks for your feedback.



This is the best I can do given that I'm working with small thumbnail image. If I was to maintain the correct FOV in the thumbnail you wouldn't be able to see the target in the thumbnail. I do state on G13 that the thumbnails do not represent what is to be expected out of G13. Mouse over are a good idea but it kinda defeats of purpose of seeing how the image comes out when you take it. I'm looking at removing some of the small targets from the menu list.



The system was designed to give astro-photography to the masses for people with little or no experience. The design goals are simple, fun, one-click image, jpeg format.

You can read this post for more details:
http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=31843

We do offer the ability to upgrade the account to a full service trial for a small but reasonable fee, this gives you access to the full network and the raw data including carrying over your 60 G13 points. However this service was originally offered as a beta test system for IIS patrons and it not currently in full production. It was never my intention to drum up business and get people to convert across to the full system. The purpose of this offer was to help me iron our the bugs and get feedback. :)



Most likely cause was because I accidentally left it off the list or it was still below the observing limits I have set.



Strange may I ask what email client you are using. It's a plain text mono spaced message with CR and the end of each line or sentence. Do you have a overriding non mono-spaced font for your plain text emails?

Best Regards
Brad Moore

[Brad Moore]

Hi Steve,

I'm the guy who put this system together and coded the software to make G13 what it is today. :)



Great idea. I will do that for sure.




Another good idea, I will remove those buttons expect for the abort button. The system when in use locks observatory at auto-releases it when you have finished. These buttons a really used for our other systems sometimes subscribers find it of benefit to lock the observatory which stops other people hi-jacking your session before you have a chance to fire off your request. :)




The Whoa factor is what I was aiming for. :)



Yes lots of things happen in order to keep the system on track. While many manufacturers of CCD camera say the flush the camera before exposure many do not, which leads to all sorts of problems. I do this to ensure the CCD is clean, specially when trying to autoguide on dim stars.



If you look at my post to Fahim it explains why. However I will most like remove these types of targets from the menu selection.



It is pre-programmed and will stay this way as things go froward I will tweak the exposure time on each of the targets. Some of these targets to image correctly need two sets of exposures with overlay the two in photoshop which is beyond the capability of this service. One to capture the background detail and the other to capture the main target without burning it out.



Ahh great! We don't call it a beta for nothing! LOL :P I will fix this up today.



It's called a Paramount ME made by Software Bisque landed in Australia they are worth around $14,500 AUD, the hardware for the G13 setup costs over $35,000+ AUD to setup and configure correctly. Other system on our network exceed $80k+ mark.




I will close that account down after you get Omega Cent. :) Consider it a extra bonus for hard work. :D

I'm glad you enjoyed the service thank you for your constructive feedback it was most helpful.

Best Regards,
Brad Moore

[Screwdriverone]

Wow, this sounds and looks like fun!

I have been busy elsewhere and may have missed the testing boat, but is the offer still open to give this a try?

I would love to evaluate the system and provide feedback.

Thanks

Chris

[Brad Moore]

Let me preface this with I work for and I'm a co-owner of Global Rent-a-Scope.

Let me draw breath as this a complex question to answer..:doh:

The correct answer to this is a minute tiny small faction of the cost of buying one of these system little alone 11 systems outright.

It wasn't my intention to "drum up" business for gras here. However I will answer your question since you raised it.

You can trial the full system for $50 USD and carry your G13 points across. This would give you around on average 3 hours of use on the lowest cost system and around 1.6 hours on the most expensive system. However the trial only applies once per customer account. So from $16 to $31 per hour.

GRAS offers two types of plans which optimise's cost towards CCD imaging telescopes and the science research telescopes depending on what work you want to do.

Astrophotography Plans come in a monthly subscription or once off purchase of points.

To give you a idea $99 USD per month subscription will get you around 1.8h to 1h of telescope time depending on the system. $55 to $99 per hour.

A $249 USD monthly plan will give you around 7 to 4 hours between on the system. $35 to $62 per hour.

Bulk once off purchase of $500 USD will give you around 5 to 10 hour depending on the system so from $50 to $100 per hour

You can get more hours imaging during a lunar period you can get a extra 24% discount which extends your imaging time future.

If you want to do something crazy like plonk down $5,000 USD it would get you around 156 to 86 hours depending on the system which works out to be $36 to $58 per hour not factoring in any moon discount and you get access to 11 telescope system at 3 different dark sky locations around the world.

If you think about it for a single semi-pro imaging rig around $70k to $80k on average which is about 6% of hardware costs of one system not factoring in the ongoing maintenance, internet costs and hosting costs at a good dark clear weather site.

However the downside of remote imaging is it can't satisfy the burning desire of playing with the hardware in the flesh and spending endless hours setting things up and getting really cold and tired. :help:

Now... If you really think about it...

Lets say you spend $5000 to $12000 on a entry level imaging rig because your interested in astrophotography.

Based on my typical experience (because I've been their done it myself) give the limited opportunity in not having a dedicated setup means you need to have a dark site, have good weather, setup the telescope polar align it, setup the ccd and start taking exposures (assuming you have the experience to pull this offer in hour or so) and you might be only able to do this every once and a while due to your life commitments this also assumes you don't get frustrated with it and don't give up on astrophotography, lets face it can be very technically challenge.

You might find in the course of 3 years you might only take 10 maybe 25 hours of exposures and if your really good maybe 50 to 100 hours of total exposure time. So the true cost for buying your own system would range from $240 to $120 per hour of exposure time if you stick with it. To get the costs to $30 per hour you need to 166 hours on a $5,000 setup and 400 hours on a $12,000 setup.

If you go with a semi-pro system and spend say $60,000 on it you would need to imaging 2000 hours of total time to get the hourly cost down to $30 per hour.

In Melbourne I found I was only able to produce around 200 imaging hours per year due to weather with my semi-pro setup so the the yearly cost for me was around $300 USD per hour. This is why my system is now part of GRAS and located at a remotely hosted dark site.

Food for thought.....

Once you put it into perspective its typically much more cheaper to rent than its to own your own entry level imaging rig outright. However pure cost is not always the deciding factor otherwise everyone would rent unless your a Gender, Croman, Glesson or a Crawford pumping out images like their is no tomorrow. :D

Best Regards
Brad Moore

[Gargoyle_Steve]

As good as his word - and fast - the "Steps 1-2-3-4" guide box now has 5 steps - the new step 2 is "Check Weather" with a link to a reminder page.

Fantastic work Brad!