Observing Challenge Feedback please

[iceman]

Guys,

You've all seen the Monthly Observing Challenge (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/?moc), a list of 6 objects which we challenge people to go out and observe, take notes and sketches of, and take deepspace astrophotography of.

John Bambury (ausastronomer), Andrew Durick (astro_south) and I spend at least 1-2 weeks (on and off) each month coming up with the list, doing the charts, writing it up etc. We'd hoped that there'd be more response each month, but so far it's been a little disappointing.

The DSO imaging guys have been getting into nicely, there's been some great images to see, but there's only been a handful of reports or sketches each month.

Why isn't there more reports and sketches? Is it that there's no interest? Or is it to embarrassing to write up your reports and sketches and post them?

Even if you don't post any reports and sketches, do you still use the list of objects as targets for that month to go out and observe?

I'm trying to get some honest feedback, because due to the seeming lack of interest, there's been talk of reducing the list to 1 or 2 objects each month.

I'm not keen to reduce it, I think the DSO imagers are making it worthwhile from my point of view, but I'd LOVE to see some more reports and sketches. It does take considerable time each month to do the list, the writeups etc, and I'm just trying to find out if it's worth the effort that the three of us go to.

Your thoughts please.. be honest!

[ving]

to be honest.... well there are 2 contributing factors Mike and I wont beat around the bush.
1. I have been too ill to observe anything of late
2. i am basically too lazy. I have made 1 observing report (not even a proper one) in my short astro observing life. I am too busy observing to write anything down usually.
3. see 2....

ok 3 wasnt necesary. I think you will find that its the same for others here... but I could be wrong.
I usually have my own agenda when I take the scope out too. I guess 1 or 2 wouldnt be too hard but i still woulnt do a sketch and any report made would probably not be a formal type (see point 2).

my report would be something like
or more detail if i do it the next day...

like i say, i usually have my own agenda for observing tho.

[slice of heaven]

I'd like to see the 6 challenges each month kept. For now at least. Then maybe next year add 1 or 2 per month on top of those . Its winter time and the clouds and cold are a problem. Had reasonable skies this week but the heavy dew (2hrs and the scope is saturated) and near 0 degs makes for a hard nights viewing , then an hour or more drying and cleaning the equipment. I'd say there'd be more members that try for the objects and don't post their reports. I appreciate the effort you guys put in each month and wouldnt like to see the challenge objects reduced.

Thanks guys.

[acropolite]

It's winter in Tas, It's incredibly smokey, cold and damp, not exactly the conditions for observing. I keep a keen eye on the results of the challenge and intend to contribute once I get some guiding happening. The unseen benefit of the challenge is that it educates people like myself, who have little or no experience finding their way around the sky and imaging, so don't despair Mike it may seem fruitless but I am sure that others like myself find the posted results very informative.:D

[Striker]

I'm a lot more intersted on the astrophography side and challenges for the month but still keep this going....you just need more advertising Mike.

[beren]

The lists are great Mike and i appreciate the efforts you guys do to get them on the forum , just a combination of weather/work and concentrating on imaging has prevented me from contributing .Dont be discouraged they are a great idea/feature and something i really enjoy reading {Darrens reports are great}

[Dave47tuc]

I think the observing challange is great. :thumbsup:

But for me I normally have other agendas re viewing lists.

Also most the objects I have seen and If I go back its only for a quick look.

But please keep them going. Maybe some harder ones when the weather is better.

As i get a bit older I tend not to observe in the cold like i use to. :D

[xrekcor]

I love the challenge, especially the comentary on the objects. I tend not to use the maps as I print my own. And I must admit I usually only select objects I haven't logged. Where I have I have tried to post a sketch or report.

I too are keen to see it kept, I often puruse it. A suggestion if I may, any chance of making the report threads sticky's? or make a seperate group even
as I dont tend to go chasing the astrophotography images. Any reason these cant be in the same threads?

regards

[Mick]

I also like the challenge, but a wet cloudy winter in the tropics has made it difficult. I especially like the doubles and have shown them at our astronomy club nights the colours are very beautiful. Maybe it's just me but it's a bit confusing having separate photo and comment threads, first off I thought reports sketches and photos were in the one place. :)

[astroron]

A picture paints a thousand words, since I have been on this site I have got the opinion that most people want to take pictures and very few do much observing, or if they do they don't mention it. I have put a couple of observations on this site, one being the observation of 3C 273 the Quasar in Virgo and recieved not one comment, I have put two images on and the feed back was much appreciated, there isn't much kudos in an observing report but lots of it with an image.
This is not meant to be derogatory,it is just my observation astroron :D :thumbsup: :astron: :stargaze:

[ausastronomer]

Mick,

Its heartening to know that someone has actually looked at some of the double stars that I have spent a lot of time writing up. Surprisingy the double stars seem to be the observing targets that have attracted the least interest, which surprised me because the targets I chose resolve well from less than perfect skies and in small telescopes so should be easily visible by everyone regardless of skies or equipment. I gotta say, something like X Velorum or 24 Comae is an infinitely more aesthetically pleasing target visually, to me, than a galaxy like M83, which is 1 of the big bright ones BTW. Notwithstanding that they are not as good an imaging target.

I also agree that the way the challenge is posted to the forum with a separate section for visual and imaging is unnecessary. I think 1 thread for each target which combines both visual observing and imaging and the thread should also be a "sticky" for the month.

CS-John B

[asimov]

I have to agree with you astroron. I believe I was the only one that put up a sketch on the lagoon nebula last month apart from Darren? ( my apologies if I'm wrong here) I got plenty of praise, but that's not my point at all.

Unfortunately (or fortunately) lol....I'm fairly....Competitive? Even though Iv'e worked out it's not a competition between the best sketch or the best pic...OR IS IT!? I'm not sure really. Anyhow, I just feel I need a bit of competition...all in good humor of course! I dont want 'good effort john!' or well done john etc....I want...Your the winner for the month john! OR! Your a LOSER john! that's the crappiest sketch I've EVER seen! LOL I dont mind a bit of aussie banter! To put it bluntly honest...I wanna see more sketching done! If it's just me & darren, well.....I'll lose interest pretty smartly I would imagine..:confused:

[xrekcor]

John,

The doubles tend to be the objects I usually select from the monthly challenge list as they are usually the objects I haven't logged yet. Sorry I haven't posted any responses as I'm not up with describing educatingly (if thats a word) what I'm seeing. But I do enjoy your commentary and chasing them down.

Thank you, Astro_south & Iceman for the time you put into creating the monthly challenge. Maybe we can take the burden away a lil, may I suggest members that may be willing are picked at random to help contribute. I could find an object to contribute, but the commentary will probably be ripped off from somewhere...

regards

[slice of heaven]

John B
I think the doubles are a great part of the monthly challenge. It needs them to maintain the variety. :thumbsup:

Astroron
The reports on visual may not get the feedback but I'm sure their not ignored.
I ,myself, enjoy reading them and am guilty of not acknowledging them via a comment.
:ashamed:

The monthly challenge also gives a plan for viewing where the decision of what to view has been made for me. Whether I've viewed the object before or not doesnt matter to me, re viewing objects increases the details.

[Dave47tuc]

Can I make another point on this? I agree with some comments but at the end of the day as the saying goes
“You can leed a horse to water but you can’t make the horse drink it’ :D

For many years in a local Astronomical Society, I spent many many hours’ preparing Viewing nights, observing challenges, work shops, Messier Marathons etc, you get my point. :poke:

Some where well attended but over all the time and effort was not worth it. Too many people are not observers, especially in the local group I was once in. :poke:

I found I spent more time trying to help others and not “doing” the hobby I love.
So I became selfish and pursue my hobby for me! :rolleyes:

Maybe there is a way to make it easier to report observations. Maybe just a tick to say Yes I observed such and such on such and such date. :confused:

Guy’s don’t get to rapt in Oh I’m wasting my time or no one else writes observations.
Do what you feel comfortable with and leave it at that. :thumbsup:

Please just enjoy the hobby to your own level. :D

All this my own opinion. :D

[asimov]

And it's a good opinion too Dave! When I first started in this way of life...It never was just a hobby to me. I started an observing log book that was totally explicit...every little detail was recorded! (even naked eye reports! lol) I kept this up for 14 years....The latter 15 years I haven't bothered....the reason being....What was I going to do with this book?? Iv'e never even met a real live astronomer other than myself, & you guy's on this forum may as well be on mar's lol...your so far away.. I think my nearest fellow astronomer is Kearn in Adelaide....If I wanna drop in for coffee, it's a 7 hr drive lol No kid's to show this book to....so I dropped that 'way of life' & now I just observe to have fun & not take it so seriously..Dont can it Mike....I still have more sketch's to draw! :thumbsup: Sorry for getting off topic..

[cahullian]

As a newbee in this hobby I love the monthly challenge (and it really is a challenge for me) I'm still finding my way around the night sky. I also think that a simple sketch of a constellation would be an amazing feat for the likes of me. I get a real buzz finding anything on the list and still run in and say to the missus I found M6 or M20 seee rolls her eyes and says thats nice dear. lol I think I'm like most members and enjoy the challenge even if I dont ever draw a sketch or write up anything.

Gazz

[xrekcor]

Asimov & ppl

Actually I think I have posted one or two sketches. But I, the same as you have been logging objects pritty much since I started. Most of my commentary is, well plain to say the least. I see allot of thing other folks can desribe better than me. Reading John B and the contributers commentary give you an idea of what can be found. So you tend to look for those things I would normally not taken notice. Example I original thought Eta Carina was a defect in my optic's until Astro_south kindly pointed out what I was actually looking at, after that I try to have a look at it every chance I get. I find for me you have to cut yourself some slack logging objects, if you get tooooo into iiiiiit! it starts to do your head in. So I think it is best to allow yourself to simply explore. And dont just do this when you get new astro gear!!! sometimes I find I spend too much time writting about an object at the eyepiece when you feel like that it's time to cut some slack... well that how things keep me going and the whole hobby enjoyable.

It is too easy to fall into the "I Have To Log Every Object I See" trap.

Most times I do generally note the object #, time and date. Just so I know I have seen it before. At the end of the day I want a _big_ _fat_ Dob! so I can become a comet chaser and look at dso's along the way.

The problem with sketching for me is that I'm not properly setup to do it comfortably yet. I need some sort of sketch desk I can use at the ep, something light and portable. What are others using?

regards

[fringe_dweller]

I agree with everyone here - I have noticed on lots of lists/groups/forums that observing/imaging monthly challenges are under supported across the board. Take yahoo digital_astro they have ~8000 members and they struggle to fill the challenge folders at times!. My approach to observing is very ad hoc and arbitrary to say the least, except with major events - then i somehow become a little bit more disciplined and focused. I am afraid i am guilty of being a major cherry picker but i have to rationalise my time the best i can, i feel I am doing all i can without going overboard as it is. But i am VERY appreciative of anyone who takes the time to do whatever they can.
Also i have noticed the trend that newcomers sometimes want to do imaging first over observing before they doing anything - i spent good six or more years just observing before getting into any imaging at all - and I am glad i did too - but it was the result of that observing and seeing so much stuff that you go WOW, "the stuff you see when you dont have a camera!" that made us want to get into photography.
Cheers
Kearn

[Mick]

Thanks for your time and effort John, Andrew and Ice. I'm always interested in new objects and old favourites. I don't log anything on paper, just in a special place my memories.

[asimov]

Being new to foruming....I know what it's like to receive no reply's to a fairly lengthy, time consuming thread/post or article....& I know the feeling that go's right along with it.. To all the guy's & gal's that I never took time out to congratulate...because I was pre-occupied or what-ever....I want you all to know that your hard work does NOT go un-noticed or un-appreciated..or un-forgotten.

[Kieken]

I think the "Monthly Observing Challenge" is a nice part of the site. People can look up stuff and read a bit about it before they go outside.

The idea that Slice Of Heaven proposed is something nice. It'll save you a lot of work next year :).

[dhumpie]

They have a monthly observing challenge over at the Astromart site's forum as well and usually the number of reports and few and far between. My take on it is that it takes a little bit of effort to write up a report and a lot more effort to sketch an object. Its easier to just tick the object seen off a large list! But then again it depends on the individual observer. I for one need to at least sketch something or write a short report on the object I am looking at to mark it as seen. Also I find people with larger scopes tend to skim more than observe because everything is nice, bright and bold (no flames please...just my personal take). Since I started with a very small scope and have progress to a slightly larger one (still very small by modern standards), I tend to take a lot more time looking at a single object and trying to drink in all that it has to offer. And sketching is one good way to hone my observing skills. Plus I have been inspired by O'Meara's books.

Darren

[xrekcor]

Hey try using your eyeball next time, I see allot more now that I use my eyeball than when I used my mouth :rofl: j/k :ashamed:

Sorry Darren I couldn't resist :poke:
regards

[Brendan]

I must say i like the monthly chalange, it gives me something to aim for rather than just wandering around the skies.

i don't post sketches however as i don't have a scanner conected to my computer, nor am i orgainised enough to take writting implements out to the scope so written reports are also missing.

I'll try harder next month Ice i promise.

[dhumpie]

Ha! Ha! Nice one Rob :)

Darren

[Kieken]

@ Dhumpie: I can't really agree with your view on large telescopes and the observations made with them. Before my 12" Starhopper I had a 4.5" newton. With it I've seen a lot of deepsky-objects but never for a long time. About 10 minutes or so. Everything just seems the same. Galaxies are fuzzy balls of light, globs the same, PN are dim thingies with almost no details. Now with my 12" I observe one object longer, much longer. 15 minutes is the normal amount of time spend on an object. Some bright or nice looking things like M57 take up 25 minutes or more.

Even when I'm searching for an object I spend more time now. Two weeks ago I've spend 30 minutes on M101. I didn't see it but I think that I've recognized the field. Same for M51 and Abell 39. And the funny thing is that I'm not disappointed about it. While searching you just fly around between the stars, sometimes you stop for observing something interesting like double stars, OCs, ... .

[iceman]

Hi all.

Thanks very much for your feedback, and it's pretty much as I had expected - that more people are using the MOC but just not posting about it.. which is fine.. Of course I'd like to see more reports and sketches, but as long as people are getting something out of it, we'll continue it!

The challenge idea initially was to have at least some objects that people with all apertures can find and observe. But I think it's a good idea to also throw in an extra few objects that actually are a real challenge, for those serious about their observing and hunting for more obscure and less well known stuff.

For august, I'll trial having the DSO images and the reports/sketches in the same thread (in the Space&Astronomy Talk forum). I just need to have a note in the DSO forum telling the imagers where to look, because some of them only hang out in the imaging forums.

I think there's a lot of observing going on, but people just aren't writing about it. I think that once a few more people actually start posting with their observing reports (whether it's part of the MOC or not), others will join in and do the same. At least, that's my hope.

I know reports and sketches (and imaging) aren't for everyone, and as has been posted, the experience is the same on other forums/groups.

It's just good to get this feedback that people are reading the challenge writeups, observing those objects and even if not posting about it, still get something out of it. Thanks again everyone for your replies.

The August list might be a few days late, but i'll make sure it's up by the 5th august for the new moon weekend where some of the objects will be best placed.

[stringscope]

Mike,

To date I have not used the IIS Monthly Observing Challenge List. There have been several reasons for this:

1. Too busy building and testing a telescope.

2. I had not picked up on this IIS feature until very recently.

I am not into sketching yet but I will start to use the list and see if I can write something to contribute.

Cheers,

[xrekcor]

MOC Crew and others

As said in previous posts we all are very greatful for you guys putting in the time and compiling the monthly list. And I guess most us didn't probably realise the time and enegy put into the challenge by you guy's. I how about we make the effort for the MOC crew. I know I would feel rewarded hearing even if it was a few lines of a report. Hell I'm guilty too! :ashamed:

So come on guys.

btw, I really feel I dont need to hear 20 replies to a report I have written. If this was to happen for every report. We would find ourselves digging through the accolades just to find reports.

I think also maybe those (like me) who are a lil shy of posting reports. We should just describe what we see... dont try and be the next astronomical guru... remember we are at the amature end. If you have a weird way of desribing something or are not sure desribe it best you can. I'm sure over discussion we might learn what we were observing. Maybe if it's isn't all ready make it a requirement to add what gear you used for the observation.
I mean if M1 looks like a very faint unresolved smug in your 60mm refractor We want to hear it! well I do. And same goes for the big boys, but I suspect the commentary to be a lil more detail.

Anyways I guess what I'm really trying to say is, since the MOC crew spend time and effort, I think at least acknowledge them

regards

[dhumpie]

Maybe I was wrong about big dob users Kieken. Maybe they hunt a different sport like galaxy clusters. But when using a large enough small scope like a 6" newt, you really start to appreciate the subtle details you see in objects. And this makes you focus more on the nitty gritty via sketching.

And Mike the MOC's are great. I hope more people take part in it......

Darren

[Brendan]

just one other thought from me on this matter,

I often find it difficult to locate the MOC posts when there is little activity.

would it be better if they had there own section linked from the main iceinspace page?

[xrekcor]

I feel the same, I did suggest in an earlier post that they be made "Stickies"
that way they would stay at the top on the first post a thread page. If I have to go looking.... well...

regards

[asimov]

If one is interested enough, one will make a point of finding it.

[xrekcor]

When one lives in the bush on really naffy connections, it can at time take to long to load, so I have no interest in loading a page that takes 5 minutes only to find it aint on that page :innocent:

If I had town dialup or even city dialup that would be great, But I have gone back ten years to when I can only connect 28800 I'm lucky when the DL rate reaches over 1kbps, it's a real come down from cable I can assure you.

So if you want to keep me interested, it would be nice _for_ folks like me if we dont have to go searching :D

regards

[xrekcor]

Big dob owners have them because they feel inadequate :poke: , Gawd I wanna feel in inadequate :rofl: and will be in the years to come :D

[asimov]

Thanks for enlightening me mate. Hope I didn't step on your toes with my 'comment' It's one-of-those-days it seems...lol Yep. I have the same line as you!? Max speed here is about the same.

[xrekcor]

No no no... I was venting my frustration of bush dialup, Although reading my post I can see why might think you stepped on toes. Truly sorry if you felt that, certainly wasn't intended to look like I was snapping at you :ashamed:

kindest regards

[asimov]

No mate, but I slid that bit in just in case! Can't be TOO careful when it comes to rotten internet misinterpretations....:D :doh: