Laser pointer update

[AstralTraveller]

According to todays Sun-Herald the importation of 'high powered laser pointers' is to be banned by Home Affairs Minister Bob Debus. Exemptions will be available for legitimate users 'such as surveying, astronomy, mining and construction'. There are no details about how the ban will be implemented nor how the exemptions will be handled. Personally I fear our pockets will be lighter after this :mad2:. Gee I'd love to 'thank' the idiots that brought this on :screwy:.

[norm]

:mad2::sadeyes::(:shrug::screwy::do h::sad::sad::sad::tasdevil:....sums it up!

[tornado33]

A few of us in Newcastle Astro Society use them so we should be exempt however I refuse point blank to pay for any liscences, if thats what the govt. wants. Instead, I will just be an "illegal" owner and take my chances. Considering how understaffed police are, provided we dont do the wrong thing with them, they wont have the resources to set up road blocks at every obbserving venue looking for lasers :)
Scott

[Ric]

Hi Scott, I just see the headlines,

"Telescope police raid star party"

Cheers

[OneOfOne]

I can picture the text....

"a cache of 15 x .22 rifles, 26 swords and 15 pistols with 25,000 rounds of amunition were siezed, however the owners all had valid liscences and were released, one person was found with a 5mW pointer and has been sentenced to 5 years in jail..."

Go figure the logic....

[Satchmo]

Surely `high powered ' lasers mean 50mw and above, and normal 5 mw pen style lasers will be ok..

[leon]

I agree Scott, stuff em, I will take my chances as well, mine is perched in its bracket on the scope, pretty harmless really.

I would have a hell of a time trying to chase down a aircraft, with my mounts slew rate.

leon

[Davros]

As its rather topical now "they can have my laser pointer when they pry it from my cold dead fingers" ................................... ...............to soon :whistle:

[gaa_ian]

So it begins ....
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/04/08/2210802.htm
What a fool !

[Terry B]

~3 yrs at her majesty's pleasure for shooting at the police with a green laser. Bash up and seriously injure someone on a footy field and get a few weeks suspension.

[erick]

Sentence might have more to do with the firearms offences?

[ngcles]

Hi All,

Please read the following taking into account the following caveat -- NO FIRM POLICY HAS BEEN DECIDED AS YET. It is only relevant to NSW residents.

There was a meeting today (08042008) at the NSW Police Ministry (no, I wasn't there but I have a _very_ reliable source) where the case for laser pointers for amateur astronomers and astronomy educators was put forcefully to the NSW Police Minister.

NO FIRM POLICY HAS BEEN DECIDED AS YET, but the indication from the meeting was that some restrictions are likely to be imposed but no policy has yet been written up. Most likely the same restrictions as apply to knives will be introduced, ie. police will have discretion to determine if someone is in possession for a valid reason. No registration/payment/licensing will be required. But to repeat: NO FIRM POLICY HAS BEEN DECIDED AS YET.

This of course does not prevent the Federal Government (who control importation laws and the legislation that governs aircraft) from imposing something different -- but it is a positive initial outcome for those of us in NSW.

I would encourage you (unless you have already done so) to continue to write to the NSW Police Minister Mr David Campbell and also to Mr Debus (Minister for Home affairs) urging them to carefully consider consider our position on responsibile ownership and use.

Best,

Les D
Contributing Editor
AS&T

[luvmybourbon]

I read in the melbourne herald sun the other day that lasers in victoria are classed as a controlled weapon same as ornamental swords and such.

So you need a permit to have one. If you dont you could possibly get a suspended jail term or even jail if you had been in trouble before.

An ex airforce friend of mine was suprised when i told him you could buy lasers above 2mw which he thought was the limit allowed.

[gaa_ian]

That is encouraging to hear Les that a bit of rational discussion is involved in the use of Laser pointers.
They are a very useful tool in the hands of those with at least 1/2 a brain !

[Ric]

I agree with Erick, I think the firearms offence might have had more bearing on the fellows sentence but as lasers are in the news at the moment it more newsworthy to mention them instead.

It will be interesting to see what develops from the meeting Les.

Cheers

[asterisk]

Again, for those of you who would like to copy or adapt, I have attached a sample letter that can be used for the purpose Les is suggesting.

Cheers

[Glenhuon]

I would also urge you write to your local member too, as I received a very positive response from our one (Kay Hull).

Bill

[erick]

Might be of interest - from "Telescopes & Astronomy" April newsletter:-

PROGRESS ON NEW "LEGAL" 1MW GREEN LASER POINTER

We have now been able to develop a Green Laser Pointer which will produce a beam using less than 1mW through high quality of manufacturing. The Lasers are also 2cm shorter than the standard models.

As light pollution determines how well a beam is produced, I will try to describe how well the new 1mW Lasers perform in various light polluted conditions.

10/10 Dark Skies (no light pollution) - no problems, the laser will produce a beam bright enough for pointing out stars to a person next to you. It is bright enough to be used a Finderscope for your telescope.

9/10 Still Dark Skies - no problems.

8/10 Darkness - our local forest is fairly dark. With no dark eye adaption, no problem seeing the beam and using it as a Finderscope.

8/10 Darkness - darker suburban lighting with dark eye adaption - no problem seeing the beam and using as a Finderscope.

7/10 Darkness - My house is located in the suburbs - I have a visible white street light 60m away, and more street lights further away. Full-on suburbia houses are 250m from my backyard, and houses line the street opposite me, out the front. I would call this darker than your average suburban house. With only 10mins dark adaption, the beam can be seen when using the laser for pointing out stars to someone next to me, or use as a Finderscope.

5/10 Darkness - Average Suburbia - with full dark adaption. No interruption from occasional car head lights. Difficult to see the beam going all the way up to stars.

2/10 City Skies - not a hope!

New 1mW Green Laser Pointer for Astronomy $100AUD.


WEB SITE: http://www.telescopes-astronomy.com.au
EMAIL: telescopes@adam.com.au

[Terry B]

some idiot is at it again
see http://www.smh.com.au/news/travel/plane-zapped-with-laser/2008/04/11/1207856766264.html
There seems to be a concerted effort going on to have them banned.:mad2:

[hogly52]

In the reporting of the same incident by the ABC, the laser pointer was referred to as a "weapon". Correct me if my interpretation is wrong, but this seems to add to the argument of a concerted effort in place by the media to sway public opinion against the legitimate uses and users of laser pointers.

Graeme

[Peter Ward]

Yep. Read that one...but...geeez...why I'd float the suggestion that anyone flying a Cessna 152 at night was probably already a little disoriented :)

Also, if he was flying straight and level (though this is not known)...how did "the pilot notice(d) a bright green beam coming through the wing tip of the aircraft"

Last time I checked 152's were a high wing type...ergo was he zapped from above? Oh...Oh...perhaps it was his right wing tip? Dammed starboard nav light strikes again! :)

[g__day]

I reckon its some idiots in the cockpit shining them on us poor folk on the ground and claiming the beam was travelling the other way at them!

So if folk jsut remove the power label - or swap them for 1mw ones - how do you enforce a ban?

[JohnG]

Give them back a bit of their own......

Anyone who shone things at us when I was with Polair used to get a 30 million candle power NiteSun on full narrow beam focus back them, they soon stopped. :whistle:

Going to be difficult to enforce.

Cheers

[styleman333]

My laser pointer arrived from MyAstro Shop today. Seems great but im a little scared to start flashing it around at the moment and quickly turn it off when cars approach.

Its "apparently" a 30mW and was $155.00.

[smenkhare]

What's wrong with flying at night?
I've flown C152's in and out of bankstown on many an occasion and have never been hit with a laser or know anyone who has. So it looks more like the media blowing thing out of proportion again.

[Peter Ward]

It's a media beat-up without question.



Night VMC in a single? I suppose the good thing is if the engine stops and you don't like what you see, you can always switch off the landing light :D

[JohnG]

Ah, Night VMC.......

Good fun, 1500ft, using the Golden Arches, strobe at 2RN and a UBD, what more could you ask for. :lol:

Cheers

[Starless]

According to http://www.radarlaser.com.au/acabands.htm
police laser tax collecting equipment are 125mw devices.

I will have to sue for compensation for eye sight damage
caused by having one of those shone at me.

I'm amazed I was not instantly blinded!

When are police going to be banned from attacking
innocent motorists with these these high powered
anti-aircraft weapons?
;)

[OneOfOne]

I hope, in Victoria at least, each operator is individually licensed! I also hope they understand that they should never point such devices at people or at reflective surfaces (such as mirrors, glass and metal) as the reflections could be scattered into people's eyes causing severe damage.

[programmer]

Hi Starless. I realise this post was tongue in cheek :P but it prompted me to do a quick Google. Apparently lasers in the 904nm range do not produce visible light (as you would hope!), so you won't be accidentally blinded any time soon :D

[Peter Ward]

Actually, light does not have to be visible to so some damage. Industrial I/R lasers cut through various materials very efficiently...a few rods and cones can just as easily go up in smoke....it's just that you don't see it coming!

[[1ponders]]

It ain't the visible light that does the damage when you look at the sun through a telescope. ;)

[programmer]

I understood blinded as dazzled. My mistake. Still, at laser speed detector ranges... no danger AFAIK.

[JethroB76]

I wondered this myself, the police aren't going to carry testing equipment with them are they?

[Cluster]

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23532064-29277,00.html

Laser pointers are now banned in WA. The article doesn't state whether all powers are banned (surely not. Arrest those university lecturers!). I'm in SA and have been watching the ban articles from NSW, VIC, and now WA roll in.

Do reflector owners now have to hand in their laser collimators? Mine is rated Class IIIa. The horror!

I have a low power green laser on order from overseas which should arrive this week. Hoping it makes it before a total ban. It's only 5mw and there was nothing on the Customs website about a ban at the time of ordering...

[smenkhare]

the reason why lasers are so useful is why the range makes little difference.

the light stays coherent.

[Ric]

:rofl:Nice one John, that will stuff their night vision for a week or so.

Cheers

[programmer]

I'm no expert, but staying 'coherent' doesn't mean the light stays tight, focused and powerful, AFAIK.
http://onlinedictionary.datasegment.com/word/coherent%20light

Lots of other reasons anyway.. beam divergence, aiming the beam at a 6mm target (eye pupil) over few hundred meters, IR filters in the laser, etc...

[AstralTraveller]

Dear Starless,

Thank you for your concern about attacks on innocent motorists. How very selfless of you. I too have the best interest of my fellow motorists at heart and so have done some further investigation.

Lidar used in Australia is a Class 1 laser as defined by the U.S. FDA., and so should not cause any damage even with continuous exposure. See http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm?FR=1040.10
http://www.lasertech.com/Speed_Enforcement/Products/ProductPages/UL100.htm#
http://www.lasertech.com/Speed_Enforcement/Products/ProductPages/UL100&100LR.Spec.pdf

[Yes, lasers are regulated by the Food and Drug Administration. So which is it? I shone my laser pointer down my throat but was I still hungry. So I shone it up my nose but there wasn't even a buzz. Lastly I shone it into my ear and there was a green spot on the opposite wall.]

For a Class 1 at 905nm the emission limit appears to 9.5x10^-7 W. The situation is a bit different for pulsed radiation where the limit is around 1.7x10^-3 J. In any case a value of 125mW seems to be way way too big.

By comparison my 30mW pointer is rated as Class IIIb which at its wavelength means more than 0.005W and less than 0.5W. That seems to make sense.

[smenkhare]

The low degree of
angular dispersion of coherent light beams also allows
the use of such light in laser ranging, over distances


A lot of the cheap one people are buying of ebay do not have the ir filters.
as far as from the earth to the moon.

[Cluster]

'Excuse me sir, is that laser 1mw? Yes? Then you won't mind me shining it into your eye at close range for a minute to prove it'

[Ric]

I can just see the scenario now.

A very large truck will pull up out side your house with Laser Limit Testing Unit on the side and enough equipment to embarass most of major universities. The police will whisk away your laser pointer for testing and emerge an hour later with a $100 on the spot fine.

Of course you will be able to fight this and win in court on the grounds that they were not qualified to use the equipment in the first place.

They will of course appeal, spend millions and lose again. Then there will they enquiries into everything possible.

The ministers and the premiers will then stand on the steps of Parliament house and say that it has all been money well spent to ensure the safety of all Australians. :thumbsup:

Whoops I'm getting a touch cynical there :lol:

[Suzy_A]

I sent an email today from my work to the state government regulator and informed them that I will be contacting all the heads of department at my workplace asking them to let me know how many laser pointers are used in their department. I will then be adding them all to our 'LICENCE in respect of IRRADIATING APPARATUS and/or ELECTRONIC PRODUCTS'.

I also informed them that, as I have a few laser pointers at home, I will duly apply for my own 'LICENCE in respect of IRRADIATING APPARATUS and/or ELECTRONIC PRODUCTS' and register my house as the location of the IRRADIATING APPARATUS. I will of course nominate myself as the Chief and Site Laser Radiation Safety Officer (LRSO).

At the moment there is one guy that works two mornings a week handling the laser licences in this state. Currently that's probably about 1 every couple of weeks.

So if there are, let's say, 100,000 laser pointers in this state, and it takes this one guy a week to do the paperwork, then that means that 100,000 applications will take him about 2000 years to complete? Or maybe the Guv'ment can employ another 2000 part-time physicists and then it will only take them 1 year to get through the applications...?

[Starless]

Suzy_A,
Great piece of direct action!
Hope you will be adding all your CD/DVD drives and laser printers
to the list.
With a bit of luck the overworked public servant will go off on
compo for stress and nothing will get done at all.
;)

[asterisk]

Is there any correlation between the subject of this thread and the ads in the sidebar shown below?

[janoskiss]

Yes, Geoff, I think there would be significant correlation. These being Google Ads I presume they are picked by the google machinery on the basis of the content of the website. So it would follow that the more threads and posts about something the more likely it will appear in an advert in the sidebar.

[Meadehead]

Thanks for pointing this out Asterisk. I clicked on one of these ads http://www.maxsontechonline.com/greenpointer30.html and orderd one!

I hope I don't get a call from the feds!

[Gargoyle_Steve]

Posting here that you bought one was probably the best way to ensure that you do.......

[Suzy_A]

"Argh! My eyes! My eyes!" Talby on the Dark Star (1974) after he gets blinded while trying to adjust the Communication Laser in the airlock....
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0069945/

[alch3my]

For us Queensland residents I got the following reply from the Australian Federal Police

[Alchemy]

for those residents living in states where a permit is required, declaring they own one and to hell with the law, it has been stated in earlier threads that these threads have been read by the authorities. Dont think you are immune from persual, at present nothing has been done.... but if they wish to... you have openly declared your intent and would lose if prosecuted and fined the maximum amount as you knew the rules and chose to flagrantly disregard them.

Regardless of how unfair/ silly etc these laws may be .... it is the law.

Complain about the unfairness and stupidity by all means just be discrete if you know what i mean.

[Nightshift]

Of course the funniest part of your comments is that many people on this web site also publish their exact latitutde and longitude of their homes, geez, talk about dob yourself in. Quick, go and change your lat and longs for somewhere in Brazil. :lol:

[erick]

Is that why Polair keeps hovering overhead! :D

[WadeH]

Last weekend I sent an email to the WA police asking about the status of class iiia <5mW green laser pointers and recievied the following response on the 15/04/08:

"Wade
My understanding is that laser pointers will fall within the Weapons Act & Weapons Regulations 1999. Mention is made of an offence where the person, who without lawful excuse, carries or possesses a light pointer; or Has a lawful excuse to carry or possess a ligth pointer commits an offence if the person carries or possesses it in a manner that could reasonably be expected to cause someone to be injured or disabled; or to fear that someone will be injured or disabled.
It will still be lawful to possess a light pointer for a lawful purpose
ie: as in your case astronomical use.
No form of licensing is required.
I hope this information assists.
Regards

Police Licensing Services"

After the ministers comment of the 13th April is it any wonder there is confusion?

[Suzy_A]

I still haven't received a reply to my query to the state licencing section yet...

But with regards to the Sergeant's reply...

So, this means that if someone is 'lawfully' using a LP at a conference and accidently shines it in the direction of the audience, then they have committed an offence?

I remember once when I was at a seminar full of physicists, a speaker was doing this as they kept their finger on the button and you should have seen everyone duck for cover....

[alch3my]

So far it seems most states are banning them, but as far as current legislation is concerned, there are valid and exempt practices regarding the lasers, and they don't require licences. Lets hope the trend continues in most other states!

[mark3d]

FYI you shouldnt copy private emails onto the web unless you got the senders permissions and especially not his police rego number etc.

[Gargoyle_Steve]

Just for the record Caleb no one HAS to do any of those things at all !!

No one is holding a gun to peoples heads and forcing them to do stupid, illegal and/or dangerous things. IF people choose to do those things themselves, then they have only themselves to blame if things go wrong, not the government.

I am NOT in favour of ridiculously tight legislation or of overly controlling governments, but I DO take responsibility for my own actions, and don't go blaming someone else if I screw up.

[hogly52]

Now banned in NSW:

The New South Wales Government has announced that it is banning laser pointers after a spate incidents involving aeroplanes.
The new laws mean that the lasers will be illegal without a prohibited weapons permit.
People caught with a laser could face two years in jail.
Recently a number of pilots have reported that lasers have been shone into their cockpits during take-offs and landings.

:mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2:

No doubt other states will follow!

Graeme

[Cluster]

More details:

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/laser-lunatics-face-5000-fines/2008/04/21/1208629786565.html

$5000 fine for those carrying lasers without sufficient cause.

But get this: Class 3 and 4 lasers will be declared a prohibited weapon, which could attract a 14 year maximum jail term. My GSO laser collimator is Class IIIa. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.

[matt]

Here's a report on Bris radio today:

QUEENSLAND may follow the lead of the New South Wales government .. and make improper use of laser pointers illegal.

Carrying a laser in public without reasonable explanation will soon be a criminal offence in New South Wales.

It follows a number of incidents in which aircraft over Sydney have been targeted with lasers.

Queensland Police minister JUDY SPENCE says she's considering the introduction of severe penalties...but says she also wants to make sure legitimate use of laser pointers is still allowed

[asterisk]

Could add a new dimension to observing nights.

[tnbk00]

I would like to know what "sufficient cause" entails

[Cerberus]

that really sets a precedent, searching a car for contraband is one thing but frisking a person is another, what if it's a minor, don't the parents need to be present first?

Meadehead, does that 30mw laser have an IR filter? if not be careful, unless you have IR goggles you shouldn't turn it on indoors because IR can bounce off walls

[alphamone]

no, not too soon, the guy deserves all the jokes cracked about him. ;)

[Ric]

Probably a bunch of people in a paddock standing around a telescope :whistle:

Cheers :)

[Outbackmanyep]

So now i see Mr Iemma has labelled them as "Weapons capable of mass murder"....where does "weapon" come into it? Police walk around with weapons capable of mass murder too......

They really have lost touch with reality!!!

They did mention Astronomy enthusiasts will have to apply for a "Prohibitive Weapon" licence.......what a joke!

Simple solution "Ban everything"

Not only that they're saying you can be jailed for 14 years for using one in an inappropriate manner......really....PUHLEEEASE!
If i was on drugs and went out and killed someone i wouldn't get as many years in jail. What has the Police and Govt's come to??? Full of P & W

[tornado33]

Dont laugh folks, in the "it can only happen in America" category, a group of amateur astronomers observing in a National park in the US were accosted by a park ranger, demanding a permit for their observing. When they couldnt produce one, they were ordered to pack up and leave. yes, thats right , you had to have a permit to use a telescope in that park!

[AstralTraveller]

I'm not so concerned about 'carrying lasers without sufficient cause' because I'm confident I can show I have sufficient cause. It also helps police in the situation where they know someone is misusing a pointer but can't catch them in the act. However the bit about the ban on Class III looks ridiculous.

I'm assuming that we use the US FDA classification available here

http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm?fr=1040.10

If we are limited to Class I and II the pointer simply can't do what we or other users need.

So, what do we do now??

[Babalyon 5]

Holy s**t, Batman! Theres another astronomer with a Class 3a Laser! In my Bat Binoc's it looks like a Howie Glatter 5mW! To the Bat Mobile!!:lol:
Weapon of mass murder!:eyepop: What am I gonna do, bludgeon people to death slowly with it. It'd take me years to kill one person with it! Not like I could cut their heads off!:rofl:

[AstralTraveller]

Ric,
Is that a laser guided weapon in your avatar?? :eyepop::D

And before you ask, no that isn't a rock that got zapped by a laser pointer in mine? :rofl::rofl:

{I'm wondering how many people know what mine is. ;)}

Dave

[Outbackmanyep]

The trouble is that with police that are trying to ENFORCE a law, if you were caught and had to use an acceptable excuse its up to the officer on duty to wether he accepts your excuse. They can be like Sidchrome tools at times, every one is a tool but they're all different!

[anthony.tony]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/04/21/2222662.htm?section=australia.I watched ABC news tonight this is the Link to the new laws on lasers and you can watch the news annoncement Tony

[Paul Hatchman]

No. We use the AS/NZS 2211.1:2004 standard. An introduction can be found here http://www.griffith.edu.au/ots/ControlledDocuments/laser_safety_manual_v1_gk_20feb2006 .pdf

But a summary for those with short attention spans:

Lasers are classed by the amount of damage they can do to the eye/skin rather than their rated power. Class 1 and 2 are generally limited to 1mW for a highly collimated beam, but can be higher for extended sources.

Old class 3A (1997 standard), now class 3R (2004 standard) can be up to 5mW as long as they meet various other criteria.

Anything above a class 3A/R was probably already restricted by existing legislation, regardless of the new rules.

But I'd wait a bit until we see the actual legislation, rather than reacting to a newspaper report. The government has consulted with amateur astronomy groups and have said they would take our needs into account. But I'm guessing you are going to need a really good reason to posses anything over 5mW (or class 3R), because as far as I understand they are already covered by existing legislation.

Cheers.

[AstralTraveller]

Thanks Paul. A quick look suggests that the two standards are broadly similar.

It seems to me that part of our problem is that the Class IIIb category covers a pretty broad range (two orders of magnitude - 0.005 to 0.5W) and we are near the bottom of the range. I don't think a 5mW laser is bright enough for our purposes but 10mW is probably OK and 30mW is plenty. (I'd be quite happy to hear other opinions about that.) So perhaps what we need is the lower limit of Class IIIb to be raised.

Would it help if the lasers were pulsed? They would likely be just as usable but perhaps less hazardous. Does anyone know if that is possible and at what cost - both $$ and performance.

David

[Paul Hatchman]

David, It's never going to happen.

The problem is that various standards bodies have decided that class 1 and 2 can be operated without training, class 3R requires some minimal awareness/training, but anything above that is not safe without proper training and supervision. Rightly or wrongly the government is following the Australian standard when determining what is "safe" for use by the general public.

Don't get me wrong, from what I've heard, the new laws do seem a bit over the top. My wife who used to do martial arts only has "controlled" weapons in the house. I was teasing her just tonight that her pacifist, astronomer husband now has a "prohibited" weapon. But I'll wait for the details before I pass judgement.

Cheers.

[dugnsuz]

You laser guys better get yourselves brighter torches:P

[cfranks]

Of course, when asked what we do with our pointers, we say "we point 'em up in the sky". oops!

[AstralTraveller]

The problem with waiting to see the legislation is that by the time we see it it will be a fait accompli. And we won't see the detail until the legislation is introduced. Given that the 'law and order' opposition will support it, it could be through both houses in a day. Unfortunately you often have to campaign on what you fear will happen. That isn't logical or reasonable but it is how the world often works.

I'm still wondering whether pulsing the laser so it delivers less energy per unit time would make it safer for untrained users while still allowing it to appear bright enough for us to use. There would still be the issue of the idiots who zap aircraft but I think that can be covered under the 'without reasonable excuse' provision. (And don't just take their word for it that they are really astronomers, ask to see a scope, ask them to identify 5 deep sky objects.)

The question remains: is there anything that we can do as a (more or less) unified force to protect our interests.

Dave

[Ric]

Hi Dave, my avatar is merely "Star Bear" fine tuning his finder scope on his shoulder mounted Dobsonian :whistle:

In relation to your's I picked it straight away. It's off a "Yes" album on inside of the cover, I think it may be "Time and a Word"

Cheers

[AstralTraveller]

Oh wow. Signs of intelligent life on Earth.:bowdown:

The avatar isn't from "Time and a Word", which is pre Rodger Dean, it's from "Yessongs". However my handle is from "Time and a Word". BTW did you notice that Starless (who made my avatar) chose to honour another band of the same age and ilk?

[tornado33]

They say the cops can frisk people whom they think might be carrying a laser, does it mean they can also bash doors down and search peoples homes as well?

[Ric]

Hi Dave, that's what threw me.

Starless has a good one as well, from another classic album. King Crimson, the album is their first and is either self titled or "In the Court of the Crimson King"

Geez now I'm going to have to dig out all my vinyls, oh well a good excuse to crank up the record player.

Cheers

[Starless]

They are an armed gang, they can do as they please.

[Starless]

Yep,
refuse to comply, I want to see them try jailing 4000 astronomers.
:mad2:

[Cerberus]

jails are already overcrowded, unless they want to start mass home detention with gps leg monitors!
common sense should prevail here(well re laws it usually hasn't but here's hoping), if someone gets caught 1st time under new law, not in the act of using it on a plane, they might get the laser confiscated and a warning, after that a hefty fine, and after that jail time

I wonder how long it takes and who will be the first to be charged under new law ;)

[Ian Robinson]

However aren't they invisible to the eye , so can not damage your eyesight ?

[Ian Robinson]

I wonder how many cops can point out much in the sky other than the sun and the moon and maybe the Southern Cross (only because it's on our flag) ?

I have sometimes wondered what would happen if I set a telescope near Williamtown Airport (the RAAF base for those who don't know) and a patrol officer saw me "in the act" in the dark.

SAS storm troopers would probably decend on me and blow it up , and ask questions afterwards .... heck expecially if I still sported my big bushy beard .
To them it would probably look like a very big rocket launcher or a very big mortar ....:eyepop:

[Cluster]

I just received my cheap laser ordered through eBay from Hong Kong. It's rated at 5mw (no idea what the real power is) and works pretty well. The Customs form declared it as 'Electronics' :-)

Very bright (almost too bright) and can easily be seen in the night sky. When shone directly at my hand the beam does not feel warm. I assume that means it does not output a dangerous level of IR radiation (unlike those overpowered '200mw' eBay lasers). I haven't taken it apart to check for an IR filter.

Not too late to get very cheap green lasers for astronomical use (at least in SA)...