Another new stargazer

[chunkylad]

Hello everyone


My name is David Wright, and I live in Townsville NQ. I work as a chef, and as such, have time to spend at night under the stars winding down after work.

My wife (bless her!!!) bought me a my first telecope last Xmas, and since then we have both enjoyed breathtaking views of the moon (of course), Jupiter and Saturn. It wasn't until I got my first real look at a DSO (Omega Centauri) that I was hooked. And hooked I am. I think you guys and girls call it 'aperture fever'?:D

I have spent a very enjoyable few days reading many of the posts on this forum, educating myself as I go. Of course, my head is into magazines and almost every Aussie website dedicated to Astronomy - especially those dedicated to supplying the necessities of this wonderful hobby: nice shiny new larger OTAs!!!

This is leading to the question you all must get tired of answering: What is my next step? I have budgeted around $2k for my next telescope. I would like to have the capacity to dabble in astrophotography down the track, so I figure I'll need a EQ mounted Newtonian. For the money, Kirk's in Melbourne have the following:

SAXON 250MM REFLECTOR TELESCOPE
# 254mm Aperture, 1200mm Focal length
# 2 Plossl, 31.7mm eyepieces
# Finderscope
# Superb HEQ5 Equatorial mount
For a review of the mount go to: http://www.cloudynights.com/mounts2/heq5.htm
# Dual axis Motor drive included for easy tracking
The long focal length provides large image size combined with good light gathering

They don't mention the size or type of finderscope, or the type of focusser, or the brand of the EPs. However, this package is selling for "under $1500". From what I've seen, this sounds good. There are other brands available. eg Andrews have the 'Skywatcher' on an EQ6 mount for around $2000.

Do you think I'm on the right track here? What are the pitfalls, if any, of larger EQ mounted reflectors? I am aware that a large Dob would be cheaper and easier to use. I am using an EQ mount at the moment, with the 114mm 'scope my wife gave me. It did, and still does, take some getting used to, especially for overhead objects.

What about DSCs? Are these successful with EQ mounts with dual axis drives? Would I be able to track my target using DSCs for photographic purposes?

Sorry for rambling on, but I've been thinking about the right questions to ask without sounding too dumb:ashamed: .

Cheers

Dave W

[ballaratdragons]

Hi Dave W.

Welcome!

You have come to the right place to ask dumb questions, even though yours aren't.

I can't help much with EQ mounted scopes as I am a Dobbie owner. If you want to do DSO Astro pics you will need tracking of some sort.

Others will put you on the right track and I read their answers always, so when I am ready to step up to tracking I will be better informed!

[astro_south]

Welcome Dave

I'm no expert on motorised mounts, but from my knowledge an EQ6 is probably required for the 10" newt - particularly if you want to take photos. That kind of adds significantly to the price :(

I work for the State Gov and have some ongoing project work in the Burdekin area that sees me wander through Townsville every now and again. I will give you a bell when I'm next passing through and we may even be able to organise an observing session :D

[asimov]

It's ok mate.. There's no dumb question's in here. Welcome to the forum Dave (& wife)

That's a hard task, to answer all your question's lol. Not that I own one but the best (reported) deal at the moment is a GSO from Andrew's communication's. OR Bintel.. Dob's seem to be the weapons of choice, because their cheaper than EQs as you already know. I'm not sure of the quality of Saxon scope's....Iv'e read reports ranging from really good, to total rubbish. I suggest you have a look around in Andrew's communications/Bintel & possibly AOE web-site's. But as I said, GSO seems to be the leader, as far as affordable reasonable quality scope's go. I have Park's Optic's in mine....a bit more up-market.

There's heaps more advise coming from other member's here, dont worry, lol. You'll begin to see a clearer picture of the different quality scopes available..

The main thing is dont impulse buy, wait for some more (heaps more) advise before you make a decision..

[asimov]

As Andrew mention's, the HEQ5 not being quite big enough to handle that skywatcher OTA I totally agree...EQ6 minimum IMHO.

An alternative...(& it's only a thought) There is a second-hand EQ6 in here for sale (or was, last time I looked for a grand) If you could get hold of just the OTA....weather it's A GSO or Vixen or skywatcher is yet to be determined, yes?

Food for thought.

[rmcpb]

Dave,

First a big welcome :) to the family.

Next have you thought about getting some of the gear second hand. There is an EQ6 up for grabs for $1k in the buy and sell section of this forum, step one. Have a look at either Bintel or Andrews for a 10" GS dob with a Crayford focuser, step two. If you added mounting rings to the dob you could use it either as a dob for cruizing or on the EQ for photography. Effectively you will have two scopes for the price of one.

Worth a thought!!

[Starkler]

It takes a serious mount to handle a 10 inch f5 OTA, and for photography this OTA may be too heavy and long even for the eq6. You really need rock solid stability.

The GSO 8 inch f4 newt is reported to be excellent optically and being shorter it could be a good candidate for photography on an affordable mount.

[vindictive666]

hi chunkylad

welcome to the forum

just thought i would attach picture of a 10 inch on a mount "borrowed" from this site


http://www.ort.cuhk.edu.hk/ericng/webcam/equip.htm

he does wonderfull stuff pictures wow under very difficult conditions :)

:eyepop: :thumbsup:

[dhumpie]

Why not just go for aperture and get the 12" f/5 dob from Andrew's :) After looking through such a scope, you won't even want to bother about taking pictures. And a very warm welcome to you....

Darren

[chunkylad]

Hi Andrew

Give me a tingle when you're in T'ville, I would love to meet with you and 'chew the fat'.

It may be difficult to arrange an observing session though, as I work 6 days/nights per week! Hence, I haven't been able to catch-up with any other local astronomy groups, as they tend to meet on weekends.

Just email me when you're next coming to the area.

Cheers

Dave W

[chunkylad]

Hello again everone.

Thank you all for your warm welcome:thumbsup:

I am going to sit tight for a while, and learn more before committing $$$ to this project, although I'm itching to 'get into it'. I do think however, that I'll go a little more upmarket, or should I say, go for better quality components than those offered by the cheapest supplier.

There have already been many good suggestions in this thread- I especially like the idea of the large dob/EQ conversion. Food for thought.

Meanwhile, I'm having a ball exploring websites, learning and dreaming about my new OTA!!!:love:

Cheers, and thanks again.

Dave W

[ballaratdragons]

Dave,

In the meantime while you are anxiously waiting for a scope here is an eyepiece for you to look into and pretend. Just look into the letter 'O' below!! Cheers.

O

[xrekcor]

Welcome to the group

Saxon And Sky Watcher are made by the same folks, They have Synta mirrors in them. I have an 8" f/6 version on an EQ5 mount. And the view through it is excellent for what it is, and it compared very favourably with others when I was able to do a bit of a side by side test and really only limited by it aperture. The focuser is what you will want to change. I also hear that Synta's 8" f/6 mirror is one of the few they got right. Check my website out to see images I have taken through it. I believe the you would be better off with the EQ6 than the hybred HEQ5 which is I understand a beefed up version of the EQ5.

Can say this and I'm sure it cut right across their line of scopes the EP's that come with them are Cr@p!!

So if you buy a Saxon your really buying a Sky Watcher. Sometimes one is cheaper than the other. Still I would want to see one in action for myself before I brought one. I've never really heard what other folks say about Saxon. I thought I was the only one that owned one lol

regards

[chunkylad]

Hi Rob



That puts the cat amongst the feathered things for me! Saxon and Sky Watcher were the two brands I was eyeing off (pardon the pun).

More reasearch!

Cheers

[xrekcor]

Dave,

Yup! just thought I would mention that. Saxon are just Sky Watcher's painted black. On Saxon's website (not sure if they still do) even most of their catalogue is in sky watcher blue. So I did some research and found they are the same just ordered by two different distributers.

It's the same with the Celestron Dob's for $2000.00+ for their 12" or you could just buy GSO's off Andrews or Bintel for half the price for the same scope pritty much, just a different colour

regards

[dhumpie]

Humm come to think of it you could get the 12" f/5 GS dob and an equatorial platform like Mike. That would be doable. You get tracking plus good light grasp!

Darren

[xrekcor]

Darren,

No Offence Mike, But I heard they are rather expensive to land here in Oz,
considering they are made with wood. I want to look at one first. May even
try building one myself. I do have idea's on building a semi permenent EQ
platform for my yet to be built light bucket. It will be an all steel
construction. And will sit semi permanently in the yard, polar aligned ready
for imaging.

regards

[asimov]

I have EQ mount plans on this site if your interested in looking at them..And it needn't cost you a fortune either..

[ving]

hi :P

[Mick]

Hello and welcome chunkylad, you’re on the right track good luck with your search. :)

[dhumpie]

I think you can actually build your own tracking dob mount Rob. From memory I have seen one on Cloudy Nights Telescope Reviews. have a look there and see if you can contact the author.

Darren

[ballaratdragons]

Hi David :rofl:

[xrekcor]

Yup! I have seen that one. The one I build will have to hold the weight of a 24"-28" Dob. So I'm sure there will be some teething prob's. And will need to determine the scopes weight before really going any further. I think the main problem will be driving it, and driving it smoothly so the motor doesn't introduce vibrations. I do have a few ideas on this but I'm yet to be in a possition to experiment. I have access to a graveyard of old cars and farm machinary, woodmill machinary...etc...etc... so a good deal of interesting bits to source and play with.

I'll wait until I have the 12" dob before I start to play. But have put a few things aside. The grave owner will be eventually sending it all off to the crusher. including my last car which still actually goes lol, mind you just barely after we played smash em up derby with it lol...

Amazing what you can do in an open paddock with Van Halen blasting away, not to mention the odd low laying stump ooooop's fergot about those :D



regards

[atalas]

G'Day Dave :welcome: hope you get your self a nice rig !

Louie :thumbsup:

[cahullian]

Hi Dave
Welcome to the forum mate.
Take your time and have a good read.
2K will get you a 250mm X 1200 mm Sky Watcher OTA and a EQ6 Mount at Andrews.
Looks like one of the best deals around.

[davidpretorius]

welcome

hmmm, i am new this too, only just ordered my scope (10" dob ltd). definately go the crayford and make sure you leave yourself say $350 for a toucam (camera) with the exposure mod done and adapter and also say $150 odd for a good superwide or barlow

my two cents worth. will be able to feed back on the toucam, a 30mm ultrawide and my 10" dob with crayford when she arrives next week

[frogman]

Gidday chunk and lovely wifey. i went through the same as you not that long ago... i ended up with the bosses c/c and a 12" GSO Deluxe..... beautiful scope....BUT.... they seem to be a pain in the ummmmm they are annoying when you have to collimate them everytime you use them....
However.....People at star parties go "hey that would look good in Anthonys 12"....." not that i mind socialising is fun too.

I started off just being interested in "just looking up" and doing the WOW thing but im getting to the point of wanting to take photos. So i am now looking at the EQ6 :( when i get a little more financial ....

Best of luck with your decision and im sure youll enjoy whatever you buy....

oh just a hint if you can afford them buy Nagler eyepieces ! :)

Anthony

[ballaratdragons]

Anthony,

I don't think an EQ6 will be solid enough for our 12" Dobbies. A more substabtial mount will be required as the OTA is very long!!! (it's not so much the weight, it's the length)

[asimov]

:poke:

[davidpretorius]

yep, us dob owners have always had problems mounting our enormous lengths, turn round too quick and we could decapitate someone!

[ballaratdragons]

Anthony, Try (Asimov) John's Plans and make one!

How's that John :thumbsup:

[RAJAH235]

Hi Dave, Welcome. :welcome: :thumbsup: Is it poss. to attend an Ob. nite to look at what is avail? Even arriving late, someone will be there, if notified beforehand. Give a better idea for your needs. :astron:
A question re; Anthony's reply. You stated that you have to re-collimate each time you set-up after transporting!!! WHY???? What is going out of collimation??? Something loose??? I don't understand!! I transport mine all the time, as I'm sure others do as well, & don't have to touch it.
?????????????? :D L.

[chunkylad]

Hi John

Would love to see your EQ plans, if you could just point me in the right direction to find them.......


Sorry John............. I actually found them for myself:ashamed:

I will download them over the weekend. You never know....

Cheers

[chunkylad]

I've just spent my night at work pondering the possiblities of beginning with, and later converting a 10" Dobbie to an EQ6 mount, as $$$ and experience permit. I have also been drooling all over Andrews' ad in the current Sky and Telescope mag, for the GSO Dobs.

I have had no luck in making a quick websearch for the relative weights of the GSO 10" and 12" Dobs, versus the capacity of, say the EQ6 mount. I realize the 12" GSO is 1500mm long:eyepop: , and would probably need a more substantial mount. Anyone have any ideas about this?

BTW, what does the "BK7" refer to in Andrews' ad?

Thanks again for the support.:D :2thumbs:

Cheers

[xrekcor]

BK7 is the type of glass the primary mirror is made of. There are various types of glass used in mirror making. Pyrex is another and considered low expansion. Which I'm lead to belive means it doesn't exspand or shrink as much due to temperture change while the scope cools to the outside temperture.

I'm sure others can explain it better than me, but I think thats the general gist of the matter.

Regards

[asimov]

BK7 or Pyrex...Pyrex is supposed to have the edge over BK7, but I would'nt really know.

25kg is the max. load capacity for the EQ6 mount. But I dare say you could put more than that on it for visual use (maybe) Depends on the length of the OTA

[chunkylad]

HI everyone


I found the specs for the GSO Dobs:

250mm OTA = 15.5kg, 1210mm

300mm OTA = 19.5kg, 1450mm

Any thoughts on the EQ6 for the 300mm OTA?

Dave W

[frogman]

got no idea dude but something in my little girl is not happy....

Anthony

[chunkylad]

Hi Everyone


I decided to do some of my own homework.:ashamed:

There are discussions covering both my previous questions already in the 'equipment discussion' section.:

BK7:http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=2948 (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=2948)

EQ6:http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=2960 (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=2960)

The GSO 12" Dob is looking better all the time:D . It seems hard to beat in the 'bang for buck' stakes!!!. A good place to start for a novice. Also, a good candidate as a conversion project later on methinks.

Thanks to everone who has contributed to this thread, and thus my education. I do appreciate it.:thumbsup:

Cheers

Dave W

[BC]

Just a momentary caution. I followed the same path and ended up with a 10" Bintel, with the thoughts of adding an EQ6 later to allow both set-ups. Just don't get your expectations too high. We all know that we won't see views like the photos but I have found that my views don't match the desciptions people talk about. I was hoping for some wow factor, but frankly got more wow factor out of my 20 x 80 binos. My expectations were simply too high. I didn't look through other people's scopes before I bought which was probably a mistake. Maybe people who can see galaxies have better eyepieces than GSO etc etc. This is meant as a word of caution but sounds a bit like a whinge doesn't it.

[xrekcor]

BC,

May I ask how long you have been in the hobby? where are you observing from City, suburbia or rural?

All these can have a great impact on what you are able to see, and what experience will allow you to detect.

I have a 8" f/6 Newt, First year I had it I really didn't see alot of faint fuzzies especially galaxies pure because my inexperienced eye didn't know what I was looking for. Your are right not to expect Hubble style views through any ground based telescope it simply doesn't have the atmosphere to punch through, even then if you were to put an ep on the Hubble you still wouldn't see what it can pull off imaging-wise. :doh:

In my 8" newt I can easily see all the Virgo Messier objects, Infact so far I have logged another 50 odd galaxies in and around the Virgo-Coma galaxy cluster. The ep's I used were GSO 30mm SV and a Pentax 10mm XW. I used my GSO 30mm all the time to track galaxy clusters and zoom in with the 10mm XW ;)

I should also add I live at a dark site, so the sky is up front and personal here :D

If your Bino's are pulling off better views than your 10" dob then there is something difinitely wrong with the setup of your scope. :confuse3:

These scopes have a great reputation for there price out of whats on the market today. :thumbsup:

regards, CS

[xrekcor]

Pyrex is because of it's low expantion when cooling to meet the outside atmosphere. Meaning it doesn't expand and shrink as much as BK7 does

regards

[xrekcor]

Dave if I were you I'd go for the 12", aperture always wins!!!

regards

[ving]

what? :confused:

[BC]

Sorry, I should clarify, the views from the binos were vastly better than expected, hence big wow factor. The views from the 10" are not as good as expected, hence no wow factor. The telescope does allow greater mag than the binos, so some things are better. The views from the dob finder are very sharp and make me think I should have gone down the refracter path. Yes, I admit to being very inexperienced, I have only just got the scope. I live ~ 25km from Canberra at 900m altitude so the skies are fairly dark. You can tell I'm fairly discouraged. My issues could be with eyepieces but I'm not about to go throwing good money in vain hope at this stage.

[xrekcor]

BC,



Haven't we spoken before, you emailed through my website some weeks back about this scope. You brought it from Bintel in Sydney.

It's sounding to me that it is need of collimnation. I mean the optic are out of whack. Newtonians can be knock out of whack quite easliy. And would probably almost definitely need it after a drive from Sydney.

have a read of this article on collimating your scope. If you take your time you should easliy be able to master this and get it bang on after a couple of practices.
http://skyandtelescope.com/printable/howto/scopes/article_790.asp

Here is another on the subject...
http://www.oarval.org/collimatE.htm

Failing that see if you can take it along to a local Astro society in Canberra and have one of their people look at it. Read the article trying their tricks to see if it is infact a collimation error.

Please let me know how you do!!

kindest regards

[xrekcor]

BC,

Oh yeah! forgot to mention you can make a basic collimating cap out an old film canister by drilling a 2-3mm hole, 4mm if so desired in the center of the base and slotting it into the EP holder.

Regards

[slice of heaven]

80mm @ 20x v 200mm @ ??x and theres no wow factor? :shrug:

You need to hook up with someone and have that scope checked. Somethings amiss.
I doubt whether you'd be satisfied with a refractor either then. A decent refractor at half the aperture will cost you a lot more and you'll lack the detail of the 10".

[dhumpie]

You need to get yourself to a dark sky site and look at some bright messier galaxies...better yet look at some of the brighter globs. You will certainly feel the wow factor when stars come pouring (no screaming!!!!!!) out of a high powered eyepiece. I remember the first time I looked at 47 Tuc through westsky's 10" dob. I almost fell over from the WOW factor....

Darren

[chunkylad]

Hi everyone,

Speaking of the WOW factor, I had it when I first set eyes on Omega Centauri with my 114mm EQ reflector. I can't see myself being dissapointed visualising the same scene with a 10" or 12" Dob.:D

I have been busy reading and rereading all the ads in A S & T. I have also made a tentative shopping list for basic visual observation essentials.:confuse3:

12" GSO Dob (from Andrews), comes complete with 4 plossl Eps, Crayford focusser, with an optional fan unit.

My 'essentails' list also includes: Cheshire collimator EP & 2X Barlow.

My first question is: is achromatic vs apochromatic worth the extra expense for the Barlow?

Secondly, are there any other 'essentials' to consider purchasing?

Thirdly: Could someone please explain the benifits to be derived from a Telrad (and its basic method of operation)? Would you consider it a worthwhile purchase for a beginner, as an aid to finding DSOs etc?:confuse2:

Lastly, I live in the tropics, and my OTA will live in my workshop adjacent to the house. This means that it lives in similar air as is outside. Do you feel that the fan unit is an important upgrade for me?

Cheers

Dave W

[slice of heaven]

I'll answer the 3rd one.
If youve good dark skies, Yes the Telrad is an excellent accessory .
It uses 3 illuminated target rings to aim the scope. The rings are 1/2 degree,2 degrees and 4 degrees so you can starhop and hunt down your quarry using those rings and a starchart to suit. I've used the Telrad for over 10 years and it makes finding things easy as the rings are overlaid on the natural sky. Finder scopes flip the view and make it a bit harder to understand . Once the objects located in the Telrad, using a low power ep in the focuser you can centre the object then increase magnification. Easy.

[Starkler]

For the medium size dob user , an observing chair is the number one accessory !
A wooden bar stool cut down has served me well.

[asimov]

Hi Chunky. I'll answer your first question. I would definately go the APO barlow. I have both APO & achro barlow...suffice it to say, I dont ever use the achro anymore.

I think a fan is a must! Although I cheat these days & stick the OTA in an airconditioned room until it's the same temp as outside. as the temp continue's to fall, I stoke the fan up every 30 mins or so.

[davidpretorius]

asimov, is the orion shorty plus an APO barlow to your knowledge?

[davidpretorius]

got it, i shouldn't be lazy. From bintel

"Apochromatic Design Gives Ultimate Power-Enhancing Performance. The Orion Shorty-Plus 2x Barlow features an air-spaced, three-element apochromatic optical design of 27mm clear aperture, for superior image sharpness and color correction. And, the Shorty-Plus boasts fully multi-coated optics for even greater light transmission. The Shorty-Plus doubles the magnifying power of any eyepiece, providing better eye relief and edge sharpness than you'd get using a shorter-focal-length eyepiece by itself to achieve the same power. Made in Japan."

[chunkylad]

Hi everyone

Thank you all for your help. I feel I have enough info to make a semi-educated purchase now; enough to get me going anyhow.:thumbsup:

Can't wait to up close and personal with more DSOs! I collimated my small newtonian yesterday, and last night (first cloudless night in a while) found the Butterfly Cluster, Ptolemy's Cluster, and Uranus. What a buzz. It makes me itch to get my hands on a bigger OTA.

Cheers :drink:

Dave W