Need Help Snake

[Phil]

Can someone please tell me what this snake is as we have allot of kids hear and are worried about what kind it is. Found about 5 mins ago. It is a baby but where there are baby's there are bigger snakes. Please help.
Phil

[erick]

White-crowned snake??

http://www.epa.qld.gov.au/nature_conservation/wildlife/native_animals/living_with_wildlife/snakes/what_snakes_live_near_you/snakes_of_southeast_queensland/?format=print


White-crowned snake.
The white-crowned snake is dark grey above, with a light grey belly and a broad white band across neck, sweeping forward around the side of the head and across the snout, creating the ‘crown’. The crown surrounds the black scales on the top of the head. It is considered to be one of the most common snakes in Brisbane, even occurring in the inner city. It inhabits compost heaps and damp areas of gardens. A similar species, the dwarf crowned snake, has a thinner white band around the top of the head and is slightly shorter in length (i.e. 0.35m).
Average length: 0.4m
WARNING: VENOMOUS. Not dangerous to humans Download a fact sheet on crowned snakes (http://www.qmuseum.qld.gov.au/inquiry/leaflets/leaflet0021.pdf) from Queensland Museum.

[erick]

NSW info:-

http://threatenedspecies.environment.nsw.g ov.au/tsprofile/profile.aspx?id=10117

The White-crowned Snake is a small, slim snake up to 45 cm long. Its upper body is dark steely-grey to dark grey-brown and the belly is lighter grey. The black crown is encircled by a creamy-white band that is widest on the nape, extending around the sides of the head to enclose the snout. It is mainly nocturnal and reacts to disturbance by raising its head and upper body off the ground and making striking movements, but seldom attempts to bite.

Location and habitat

Distribution
Coastal and near-coastal areas from central eastern Queensland south to the vicinity of Coffs Harbour in north-east NSW. The western limit is the Legume area near the NSW-Queensland border; however, their stronghold appears to be the middle Clarence Valley.

Habitat and ecology
Favours low to mid-elevation dry eucalypt forest and woodland, particularly areas with a varied and well-developed litter layer, where their prey of small lizards may be more abundant. Also occasionally found in moist eucalypt forest and coastal heathland.

[Phil]

Thanks Eric nice to no what it is.
Phil

[erick]

No promises now until you get an expert opinion - I'm just googling! So be careful, please.

[[1ponders]]

What a beauty. They are a very attractive snake and generally not very aggressive, its all show, they are very reluctant to bite.

[GrahamL]

Don't know the scaley ones from up your way to well phil :)
It does look close at a glance
But I would still give that snake a good wide berth for the time being
Very young eastern browns can be so many differant colours and shades its best not to mess with ANY very young snakes I have found over the years.
Flip a few rocks in the early mornings (before they get active ) when the weather gets cooler you'll often find the youg ones hideing out for
winter .

[Phil]

this guy is very aggressive striking at everything. So i will be careful with it until i let it go somewhere away from my house.
Phil

[Stephen65]

Surely this is a job for the Snake Valley Astronomical Association?

[erick]

Haven't seen a snake at Snake Valley yet. I suspect they don't like freezing cold nights which is typical of club observing nights!! :D

[Stephen65]

I was assured by Ken that the town is named "Snake Valley" due to the winding shape of the creek that runs through it and not due to any local abundance of snakes. Even if it's not true it's a good story to tell to maintain local property values.

[jjjnettie]

I first encountered this type of snake when we lived in suburban Brisbane.
They're quite common. They don't get very big, so maybe the one you have could be fully grown.
Crown snakes are handy to have around the place.
They'll eat all sorts of vermin that you don't want in your house.
He's probably very scared at the moment, and that is why he's aggressive.

[Phil]

I will let it go in the backyard then if that is the case JJJ. It is the kids i was worried about don't wont then playing around with snakes. There are allot of snakes around hear.
Phil

[Phil]

Hear are more photos of this little guy.
Phil

[Ric]

Hi Phil, thats a bit scary having one of them in the house with you.

I'm glad you were able to evict him.

Cheers

[Phil]

It was taken to the local zoo today to try and find out what it is. They said it is a brown snake. So will have to keep an eye out from now on.
Phil

[citivolus]

:screwy:

You must have gotten their resident snake "specialist". They should be reported to the Queensland EPA for giving out irresponsibly bad information like that.

[mark3d]

you dont believe the zoo? i would hope they can identify animals - otherwise else they might let you pet the lions or something :P

[AstralTraveller]

Or the brown snakes. But really, it does look so much like the description. Of course discretion is the better part of valor, so I suggest an experiment. My neighbors have a yappy little mutt and ... well ..... :abduct:

[erick]

Obviously evolution at work. He is disguised as a crown snake to put his prey at ease?? OK, better take the expert's opinion. There may well be a few 1.5m adults around then!

[ausastronomer]

If that's a Brown Snake I will gladly push a peanut from Bateau Bay to Brisbane along the bitumen, with my snorkel.

The snake was obviously identified by the zoos' resident car park attendant.

Notwithstanding the above. I treat all snakes as dangerous. Even the prairie rattlesnake I managed to photograph from a distance of about 18 inches in Texas last year :)



Cheers,
John B

[GrahamL]

We cleared a few hundred acres a while back full of bush rock and scrub
spent weeks picking up rocks under every one was a young snake or three
They were all browns but many were anything but brown .black , grey, banded ,whiteish ,olive ,greenish you name it you would often find many brown ones as well .. the girl from the uni happily pointed out why they were all the same snake .. I never had a clue that a young brown was anything ..but ..brown ..they apparently lose these odd colours as they grow a little ...take care :thumbsup:

John wasn't that rattler believed to be a harmless snake by you and the
local guy right up until just after you got in close for that shot?:D..:lol:

[Phil]

In the day light the colour of this snake is brownish. Im just saying what the zoo reptile guy said it is. I don't care what it is it is the kids im worried about.
Phil

[Kokatha man]

When I saw Phil's post about lunchtime yesterday I just thought "well, that's a young brown" - and let me be rude and state that I've had more experience of a wide variety of snakes native to southern and central Australia than most IIS members have had either hot or cold breakfasts!

One or so comments are so ludicrous as to be.....well, best I just say: if a herpetologist at the local zoo tells you it's a brown, then you better have far more authority than they to counter, let alone arrogantly dismiss, that identification! Unless, of course, you're a complete idiot!

Juvenile browns (almost) literally come in the colours of the rainbow, and do some pretty good mimicking of many other species too. Whether that is an evolutionary thing, I'm unqualified to say.....

One of the characteristics that does differ them from many (more) harmless varieties - though these other types certainly do exhibit this trait to varying degrees as a defence mechanism - is their extremely aggressive behaviour re "striking."

I should be honest here and say that I have no personal knowledge/experience of White-crown snakes; but in the reading I have done this morning there are anomolies between any images/descriptions of said snake and those Phil photo'd: specifically re the banding as it surrounds the frontal and snout areas - but these types of markings are quite common in juvenile browns!

Snakes, and browns especially, are within household vicinities all across Australia: it's the old "what you don't know won't hurt you" story - or more correctly "won't freak you out" story. Ive accidently stepped on characters as thick as your forearm and 2 metres plus - if at all possible they will try to escape: hence the bit about most people being bitten trying to capture/kill snakes. I have also seen the most idiotically bloody stupid things people have attempted with snakes.

Phil, try not to leave stuff laying on the ground around the yard that snakes can find refuge under, that goes for their food sources as well (eg mice, scraps and lousy compost heaps as well as bad chook houses.) Teach your kids in a calm, intelligent way about snakes and how to avoid/deal with any unexpected encounters; and though I'm not a cat person, I will say that cats often clear the territory of them. Dogs end up bitten on the nose and die quickly.....

Snakes are territorial and are most active at specific times of the year: most young ones don't make it to adulthood, part of the reason behind their aggressive stance I presume.

Now where was that loose peanut....?

Cheers, Darryl.

[ausastronomer]

Exactly correct and why you take absolutely no notice of anything I might suggest about venomous/non-venomous snakes :help:

More importantly why you treat every snake as dangerous.

My Texan Colleague who has seen hundreds of rattlers, mis-identified the snake. I took its photo from 18" away. It got real pissed and struck at me and fortunately missed. When it re positioned itself I saw it had a rattle on its tail. My first thought was "gee that's funny a non poisonous 'bull snake' having a rattle just like a real rattle snake." It was then the realisation of what happened and how lucky I was hit home. Subsequent examination of photos on the internet revealed that a non poisonous "bull snake (gopher snake)" and a poisonous "prairie rattle snake" can look very similar.

Cheers,
John B

[erick]

Most importantly, John, we need an update on the peanut pushing start date!

[Kokatha man]

Now, now Erick - if I seem to recall, it wasn't John that came up with this "White-crown" stuff, but a certain Melbournian we all know.

In saying that I have to confess that when I first saw your post, I checked your link and a couple of others alongside Phil's photos and thought a good opening for a posting in response would be - "I don't know anything about White-crowned snakes but I can read....." - but thought better of it!

I'm sure you can appreciate how lucky you are John: snake-bites aren't quite the same today with anti-venes and quick treatment; but they are no picnic in terms of illness and after-effects, let me tell you!

Cheers, Darryl.

[erick]

But note the use of question marks and disclaimer later! Eric make a definitive statement about an area he knows little about? Well yes, but not that often! And I never raised the matter of a peanut :D

[Garyh]

Hey Phil!
I shall post your pic on a Snake forum if you don`t mind..they shall tell you what it is for sure...what I have heard is that the white crown snake is venomous anyway so release it well away from where the kids hang out.
cheers Gary

[Phil]

Thanks Gary the zoo people let it go miles away from hear. Just hope he had no brothers or sisters.
Phil

[Garyh]

Well the feedback from the forum all say its a white-crown snake as its head shape and the white nap are a give away. Baby browns just don`t have a white nap.
No peanut rolling guys!
cheers Gary