An Interesting Concept

[leon]

Hi Guys.

Yep, I'm bored, and whilst just sitting here pondering, (Hi Paul) :lol: the thought came to me, what would the universe be like if Earth disappeared.

So it goes some thing like this, if the Earth was instantly swallowed up and vaporised what would be happening in this part of the Universe. :whistle:

It is not that we have discovered any other life forms to date, so I expect it would be pretty quite around this area. :shrug:

Leon :thumbsup:

[Davros]

You mean like if they had to make room for an intergalactic bypass? I guess we could learn to like Vogon poetry. :D

[astroturf]

I've often thought about this
Since Mankind has created the concept of time & measuring it based on earthly events etc, If everything became vapourised ,the concept of time would therefore be irrelevent,
I wonder, assuming there are other life forms around the place, what their concept of time is & how they measure it
Keeps me awake at nite thinking

Bryan

[Glenhuon]

Instantly vapourised. Gives a whole new meaning to Global Warming. :lol:
I have wondered if creatures like the Turtle, whose life span is capable of being double that of humans, perceive the passage of time differently, or do they not care much about it at all. Perhaps we could learn from the latter, and stop being ruled by the tick of a clock. :)


Bill

[h0ughy]

just remember your towel

[mick pinner]

we have only created time scales to suit ourselves, it and we are totally irrelevant to the rest of the universe, l doubt the universe knows we exist as we have had no impact upon it.

[mark3d]

time is a concept and so are the terms hours minutes and seconds.. but they are all just to explain a natural phenomena that means there was a past, present and future. the difference between the birth of a star and death of the star - thats not made up :)

[sheeny]

"time is an illusion... lunchtime doubly so..." - Ford Prefect.

Since we haven't had much impact outside the planet, I expect the impact of the earth "vanishing" would be very little at all. After all "space is big... really big!":D

As for different species perceiving time at different rates, it is a tantalising idea, that's been explored in many sci fi books (and probably shows:shrug:). Terry Patchett explores it well in the Discworld books. It makes sense that a sloth would perceive time more slowly than a little bird like a robin, finch or a wren. But as to proving it... I don't know how to start...:shrug::)

Al.

[mick pinner]

l agree, time isn't made up, but we only perceive it in relation to ourselves.
what we conceive a minute, day or week to be has no relation to anything but ourselves.

[Kokatha man]

Perhaps time is best described as a way of articulating the dynamic nature of matter (not just life) - if we didn't exist I seriously doubt that the universe would fail to be - and please, don't reply with the "if a tree falls in the forest and no-one hears it....spiel!

Then again, if the more things change the more they stay the same....!?!

What the @#*% am I doing responding to this particular thread, with all the lights out and the pc screen burning into my eyeballs?!?

[gman]

I think that the universe would notice that the earth was not there.
Changes in gravitational forces in our own solar system would be upset.

Although I think it would be something like a pimple on the bum of the universe.
Noticed briefly but heals rather quickly

[Kokatha man]

And Gman hits the send button 1 nanosecond after I have.....

[omnivorr]

..the startingpoint of studies, I think, has been the rate of heartbeat... there's a notion/observation that each creature on average has a similar number of heartbeats thru an average lifespan of that species.. ie, tortoise and hummingbird each have approximately same heartbeats per lifetime, but life at vastly different pace and longevity...

If earth disappeared.. there'd be far less junk radio/tv emmissions radiating from Sol's system..

[Kokatha man]

.....and (possibly) from this IIS thread....?!?

[omnivorr]

...boredom, under this perpetual dark grey corrugated iron igloo that is my local sky....
was hopin tonite it'd look like a country road sign, ..but no such luck :(
...mebe to morrow.. ..otherwise, just hangin around waitin for the postie ;)

[skwinty]

I think that the effects of earth vaporising would have a localised impact on the solar system but not a universal effect as the mass/energy ratio would remain the same over the universe. The bits and pieces left over from the vaporisation dont dissappear they merely change state and position.
As for junk radio and tv they would dissappear completely as we are the only ones emitting such garbage.
I think that proof of intelligent life outside of earth is in the fact that this other intelligent life has avoided us completely;)
And as an outsider, that is what I think of the human race:lol:

[Kokatha man]

So Steve, are you confessing to having gone from banging on people's doors trying to frighten them into buying a particularly paranoid, delusional fantasy; into one of these withdrawn disfunctionals putting the **%#$@ on the rest of us?!?

Cheeres, Darryl - ps everyone, Steve knows my caper!

[Ric]

Hi Leon, when I was first watching the animation of that naked eye gamma ray burst I wondered how many planets were probably vapourised within a few thousand light years or so and how many may have had life on them. I guess we'll never know now.

I suspect the same would apply if we were vapourised, no one would ever know except for second long faint flash in the sky in about seven billion years.

Cheers

[skwinty]

Listen here Darryl
Just because your'e not paranoid , doesnt mean they are not watching you!;)
Or should I say we

[omnivorr]

:whistle:

[Kokatha man]

Who sed I aint paranoid: come ons, I wanna knows which wun o' dem sed it dis time - dem allways sayin tings abouts me dat mob, jist likes all da rest of youse duz.....don't tink I don't knows...

[ngcles]

Hi All,

Well, getting back to the original thought Leon raised, I don't think there would be much effect at all -- except of course for our Moon which would probably end up in a slightly strange-looking orbit around the Sun. Apart from that, it would certainly throw a lot of astrological predictions out! ;)

Re the Hitch-Hikers references, I think the best one has been missed so far: "Time is an illusion caused by the passage of history ... " -- makes perfect sense to me.

While on time, take a look at a dictionary and see how convuluted and complex the definition of this very small word is.

I can't remember where I heard it, but I think a really good definition of time I once heard went something like this: "Time is both a continuum and a frame of referrence within which cause and effect events occur". Don't think it can be topped for succinctness at least ! :thumbsup:

Best,

Les D

[Kokatha man]

Hi Les etc, I know this is terribly immodest, but I really think my own definition is far more succint and proper - "perhaps time is best described as a way of articulating the dynamic nature of matter."

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/images/icons/icon13.gifBeing somewhat pedantic I'd have to point out that your interpretation falls flat because; "continuum," "frame of reference," and "cause and effect," are all reliant on a perception of sequentiality as phenomenum , this is an aspect of our human perception. Such a description is thus rather akin to describing "time as time"

Without getting into the rigours, and thus validity; of the possibility of parallel universes, time vortexes and other extended hypothetical conjecture; I think that my reductionist summation, whereby matter and its' "family" of energy entities are accorded their various "personna," is a safer description, more abstract from human relevance and thus more germane to the original postulation!?!:lol:

All in good spirit, cheers, Darryl.

[Kokatha man]

ps - I have thrown down the gauntlet (with good humour and manners) to Les via a PM, to respond to my rebuttal - or should that read "hurled the first spear?" - Gentlemen, pick up your spears, shields and waddies! Ladies are invited to utilise their digging sticks!

[dugnsuz]

Less thinkin', more imagin' leon!!!!!!

[ngcles]

Hi Darryl & All,

I can't really argue too much with you Darryl because I'm no physicist and I'm not much of a philosopher either -- but it isn't "my" definition, and I never claimed it was --it was someone else's and I can't for the life of me think who it was. Compare it to the Dictionary definition and it is _much_ shorter --as is yours.

In regards to the criticism of the definition I quoted as being too reliant on the presence of an observer, look no further than quantum theory for a parallel and in particular Schrödinger's Cat -- a famous thought experiment that seeks to argue against the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum theory that in turn held that the observer's intervention in the simple act of observing is _vital_ to the result.

A short explanation is here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schrodingers_cat

Which, after her husband's efforts in the "lab", caused Mrs Schrödinger to exclaim:

""What in the hell did you do to the cat? It looks half dead!" :lol:

But I must admit to getting all sorts of headaches when I attempt to think at that level!


Best,

Les D

[Kokatha man]

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/images/icons/icon14.gifTouche, and good on you for replying Les - I was certainly aware of Schrodinger's paradox; which in essence is something that has been agonized over long before him, his damnable cat or quantum theory! My (Any) utterances over these affairs is of course by definition, confined within human relativity.....or maybe there's something more innate/intrinsic with respect to the greater universe within the suggestion that it (language) is "hard-wired".....

Language, and its' power, are pre-eminent in our "relative" worldly existence: even physics/mathematics etc must ultimately defer to its' superiority, regardless of facts (work that one out!) Sophistry, or "spin" as it is referred to nowadays, being a major player in this branch of "learning".....

Let's hear some more views!

[avandonk]

What has always intrigued me was the measurable effect called quantum entanglement. If one takes this concept to its extreme, as all the Universe was once at the one place and time (the BIG BANG) then that means everything is connected in some way we do not understand.

This goes against any sort of direct causation. It also seems to act instantly that is faster than light but no 'real' information is transmitted as all particles seem to have the information but don't manifest them until you interfere with the other particle.

I am sure the inadequacy of language has caused more human conflict than anything else. Apart from greed!

So if the Earth disappeared I could not find my favorite pub.

As a little aside when a photon hits your sensor and converts to a charge or potential, at that same instant at the origin of that photon in a star or nebula etc no matter how far away the corresponding particle that gave rise to this photon will have its spin fixed until next it interacts.


Bert

[leon]

So if the Earth disappeared I could not find my favorite pub.

Bert


Bert, you crack me up :rofl: :rofl:

Leon :thumbsup:

[skwinty]

When we apply the quantum theory to the universe, we are then fored to admit the possibilty that the universe exists simultaneously in many states. In other words, once we open the door to applying quantum fluctuations to the universe, we are almost forced to admit the possibiltyof parallel universes. It seems we have little choice. - Michio Kaku

Well Bert , seems as though your favourite pub may be here,here and here.;)

[avandonk]

Skwinty I used to be able to find them by a random walk! All is explained!

Bert

[skwinty]

Yes, and now I understand what syncopation means.
"An unsteady movement between bars"
:lol:

[Ric]

I used to find that the "random walk" happened after visiting my favourite pub

Cheers