dobs and australian suppliers

[davidpretorius]

Hi,

I have been looking at getting a 10" or 12" dob with crayford focuser and fan etc ie a LTD or premium setup.

I have been getting prices from the two main suppliers that i am aware of. Andrews Communication and just recently Bintel.

Andrews units: 10" GS-880-BK7-CRF and the 12" GS-980-BK7-CRF
Bintel's units: 10" Bintel BT 252 Premium and the 12" Bintel BT 302

I am very impressed with both companies level of customer service. You can hear the level of excitement in Lee Andrew's voice when he talks on the phone to you (it is very infectious) and as you can see from the quoted email back from Bintel, they know their stuff and obviously are keen to make sure the after sales side of things is spot on.

In my mind it comes down to this. Both suppliers have the same scope, take freight out of the equation and it seems that if you are looking at price only with good but inexpensive eye pieces, then Andrews is the way to go. If you want a unit that has been reassembled in Australia, is already star tested and collimated for your piece of mind and some heavy duty backup in terms of service, then Bintel is the way to go. Bintel also seem to be the better of the two in terms of the eyepieces in the range of good to the very best.

The following email is from Bintel:
"...the Bintel Dobsonians are manufactured by Guan Sheng, However... our telescopes are completely disassembled and reassembled by one of our telescope technicians. The Primary mirror is removed and spotted. The secondary Mirror and spider are set and the focuser is squared to the tube to ensure that the optical path is correct. The telescope is then collimated and star tested. It takes us a little more time to do these tests to the telescope but we are very confident that they will work as expected when the customer takes it out to use it. Our scopes include a full instruction manual written in store by one of our technical staff.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

Collimation can be done in one of two ways.<o:p></o:p>

A laser collimator will allow you to collimate both the primary and secondary mirror, however, this will only be an optical collimation not Mechanical collimation. <o:p></o:p>

The collimation tool that we stock is a combined Sight tube / <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Cheshire</st1:place></st1:City> eyepiece and can be used to do a full Optical / Mechanical Collimation. They cost $75-00.<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

We stock many different brands of eyepieces from the budget GSO plossls and SVs through the Meade Series 4000 and Series 5000 Plossls, Super Wides and Ultra Wides to the TeleVue which are without exception the best eyepieces on the market. They include the Televue Plossl, Radian, Panoptic and Nagler.<o:p></o:p>

Budget Plossl Eyepieces start at $49-00, whilst high end Naglers can cost as much as $950-00. There are very good reasons why the more expensive eyepieces are so much more expensive. You get what you pay for.<o:p></o:p>

Meade Series 4000 Plossls are $89-00 each<o:p></o:p>

Meade Series 5000 Plossls start at $145-00 up to 20mm the $160-00 for the 26mm.<o:p></o:p>

Both of these series of eyepieces are far superior to the GSO eyepieces.<o:p></o:p>

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The Orion Shorty Plus Barlow is one of the best apochromatic barlows on the market for Newtonian telescopes and is $138-00.<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

At Bintel our staff include some of the most experienced astronomers in <st1:country-region w:st="on">Australia</st1:country-region>, our telescope technicians are factory trained in the <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">USA</st1:place></st1:country-region> to be able to service any type of telescope and are always available to offer the best advice to our customers.
With the wealth of expertise we have we can offer the best after sales service in <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Australia</st1:place></st1:country-region>.

I hope that this information is helpful to you...."

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For mine, I am thinking of going Andrew's way as i would like to learn the hard way, in terms of having to do the star test and then collimation. I will get my free series 500 eye pieces, but i will then buy the collimation (mechanical and optical) and barlows and superwides from Bintel as time goes on.

Hope this helps, either way i know what i am paying for. Neither came across as used car saleman, and I would recommend both!

[h0ughy]

"Cheshire eyepiece and can be used to do a full Optical / Mechanical Collimation. They cost $75-00."

for a start, andrews has this for $29.00. Milk them both for what you can get, its your money. :D

[davidpretorius]

thanks houghy, would andrews be a combined sight tube and eye piece for $29, or simply the eye piece without the sight tube?

[h0ughy]

you might have to ask the dobbies on the site, as you can see i don't have one, merely just passing on what I have read and seen.

[acropolite]

C'mon all you dobbers where are you when you're needed....:poke:

[ballaratdragons]

Davo,

The Andrews Cheshire is a combo.

It is a sight tube/reflection cross hair collimator.

You can use it as a simple sight tube for alignment or If you shine a red torch in the side hole it illuminates a 45 degree angled surface so you can collimate accurately!

A star test is still the final step (with or without the tool).

I wonder how Bintel 'Star test' the scopes they dissassemble and reassemble. Does a staff member spend his nights (clear ones) doing this?

Enjoy your purchasing.

[elusiver]

do u really need a sight tube.. if the scope came with a sight cap?.. thats what the 8" came with and thats what i've been using.. plus if u went for the bintel u'r secondary would be set anyway.. which i think is the main purpose for the sight tube. But yeah, andrews cheshire is $29.. Also, keep in mind dave that your scope has to go a fair way to u.. and may get bumped around on transit, and maybe the collimation put outta whack, so u'r gonna have to re-collimate it anyway. Which leaves centre spotted primary.. and although the thought of it is daunting.. it really isn't that hard as long as u'r very careful and very patient..

I went for andrews, because it was cheaper.. and the advantages for going for the bintel weren't worth it for me.

also.. andrews don't ship the scope with the series 500's.. or at least they didn't with mine.. they shipped the with the proper GSO plossls... apparently the series 500's are of a lower grade.

the full instruction manual looks good though.. :)

el :)

[ballaratdragons]

My Andrews was shipped with 3 Series 500's (reasonably poor standard) and 1 un-named brand (very good).

[elusiver]

top point!


el :)

[elusiver]

also.. bintel gso plossls are $49.. at andrews they're $39.. :)

el :)

[ving]

I got my 8" dob from andrews... I'd say that if you know what you are doing then go with them, you are going to have to learn how to collimate anyhow hey.
my outfit came with 2 gso plossls, 2 andrews home brand EPs ,gso 1.25 2x barlow, moon filter, and small binos. I didnt get mine delivered, I picked it up. the scope was not collimated by them, I did it my self by star test at first and then bought a collimator from them.
when i picked up the collimator Lee gave me a quick lesson on how to use it.
hope this helps.

[davidpretorius]

ving, that is my train of thought.

thanks everyone else

[asimov]

LOL! There's quite a few companies 'claiming' to star-test before sending the merchandise.....proof is in the looking when you receive it.....Of course, seeing it's bound to get put out of whack in shipping, there's no point in questioning the statement..

[ballaratdragons]

Maybe they have a Star glued to the ceiling in their workshop!!! :reindeer:

[asimov]

Oh yes! the good ole' artificial star, hey!?

[slice of heaven]

asimov,BD what about the link below ???

http://aberrator.astronomy.net/scopetest/index.html

[ballaratdragons]

Sooooooooooo!!! That's how it's done. Thanks Slick!

[asimov]

Yeah, I actually posted that link in here awhile back. I'm not saying I'm dis-believeing statements made by company's...lol

[slice of heaven]

Yes you did John. :lol:
Thats where I got it from.

[asimov]

Oh well....I'll take you word for it, LOL..

[Starkler]

I know of one IIS member who recently bought a 10 inch dob from Bintel and they most certainly did not reassemble and collimate the scope correctly. Collimation was out and the primary mirror pinched in its cell.

As you will have to learn how to collimate anyway, may as well go for the deal that you think is the best value and collimate yourself. Also check the howto section for my article on checking the optics on your GSO dob

[acropolite]

Dave, for my two bob's worth, go with the dealer that covers their freight with insurance. When I enquired with Andrews 6 months ago they refused to freight into Tasmania. Bintel on the other hand not only freighted, but had my equipment covered for damage in freight. Unfortunately freight into Tassie has a habit of turning up damaged, I have first hand experience of that. I've lost count of the number of mainland dealers that refuse to freight to Tassie because of past damage. I'm not trying to frighten you but it would be disappointing to see your new toy arrive bent and broken.

[davidpretorius]

thanks phil, i am getting final figures and specs from andrew as we speak. i am asking him on insurance. In regards to freight, Bintel were $220 to get to tassie, Andrew $75.

Hope to order as soon as that tax cheque comes back!!

[p medcraft]

Hi guys, I have purchased scopes and a lot of gear off both Dealers and can attest to their sincerity. leigh Andrews is principally a radio business with spare space out the back to also run a wholesale scope business with no significant overheads. There is nothing wrong with this because it allows us all to get access to Chinese scopes at unbeatable prices. Mike Smith at Bintel on the other hand is running a retail business which includes ongoing support and direct servicing and repair of telescopes including 14" and 16" GOTO Schmidts. I know that Don Whiteman, Mikes Meade specialist has flown to customers to set up their observatories. Mike sends his team to the US every year or so to do the update course at the Meade factory so they remain current with the latest gear. Bintel stock a big range on the shop floor including Meades, Coronado, Televue, Telescope building gear including spiders, secondaries and mirrors and a range of Chinese scopes branded with the Bintel name. The knowledge base at Bintel is significant. Don would be one of the more experienced observers and Telescope builders in the Country. He was a judge last year at the South Pacific Star Party. If you need a cheap Chinese scope and don't have a lot of questions or concerns (by this I mean that if there is a optical/mechanical problem you can identify it and fix it yourself) Leigh is the way to go. If your needs are more complex and you need a walk through and hand holding then the extra bucks are worth it. The difference isn't in the delivery of a good scope, it is in the delivery of a one with problems. I have no doubt that Leigh would take it back and swap but if it is a minor issue Mikes team will be able to walk you through the corrections needed so that you don't have to send it back.

Paul Medcraft

[iceman]

Paul is right, both have their pros and cons.

When I bought my 10" GSO (a year ago), I ended up getting it from Bintel because at that time, Bintel matched Andrews price for me - it was before the "premium" models and before the price drop of about 6-8 months ago. Hey, maybe I can claim credit for starting the GSO dob plague!? :D

I agree that star-testing (and collimating to an extent) could prove redundant by the time it's shipped to your house - you STILL need to learn how to collimate, regardless of who you get it from. However the squaring of the focuser and positioning of the secondary should only need to be done once, and if Bintel do that then it could be worth the extra money if you're not confident of tinkering yourself.

I also think it would be worth it if the shops started doing things like checking for astigmatism on these GSO dobs, checking for pinching of the primary and secondary mirrors. For some people, it might be worth paying a little extra for it, and it could mean the difference between great views and good views on the first night out.