Mounts

[Babalyon 5]

Howdy!
Just wanted to get a few opinions on a good mount that could hold around 20kg or a bit more and is reliable and well priced which will suit astro photography as well.:help:

[Matty P]

I have just been asking the same question.

Have a look here,
http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=28320

Hope this helps

[mick pinner]

at 20kg the only mount that would come close for astrophotography is the Losmandy G11 at around $5000. IMO don't even consider the EQ6 Pro although others may disagree.

[madtuna]

so which did you settle on Matty? the G11, the EQ6 or the garden rock?
;)

[Babalyon 5]

Why not the EQ6? Looks big enough & seems to have the goodie bits!:shrug:

[iceman]

While I have a 22kg 12" newt, plus 25kg of counterweights on my EQ6, I agree with Mick that it's not really recommended as the best course of action.

It's really right on the limit of the EQ6, and if you wanted to add guide scopes etc, it just might be too much for it.

The G-11 is the way to go - Alchemy and Paul Mayo have their 12" GSO newts on a G-11 and their images are testament to the quality of the equipment (not to mention the quality of the imagers themselves).

[iceman]

btw :welcome: to IceInSpace!

[g__day]

EQ6 $2K Periodic error +/- 22 arc seconds

Losmandy G11 $5K PE +/- 8 arc seconds

Celestron CGE $6K PE +/- 15 arc seconds

Vixen Atlux $7K PE +/- 3 arc seconds

Takahashi NJP $9K PE +/- 2 arc seconds

[Zuts]

At the risk of starting up the EQ6 /G11 war again.

(1) If we go by the quality of planetary imaging as Mike says then i think the EQ6 is not too bad. Search for posts by ICEMAN and look at his planetary stuff on an EQ6, so definately it is possible.

(2) 20 kg would be at the limit of everything including a G11. If you are seriously considering starting off with 20 kg of stuff hanging off your mount then I would suggest something better than a G11.

(3) If money is no issue then get the Titan or the G11.

(4) If you want a perfectly adequate mount that is rock solid for refractors up to 4 inches, can do a C9.25 plus guidescope/guidecam and cameras not too badly, or a LX200 10 inch SCT with a self guiding camera not too badly either then go the EQ6.

I would guess that of the people on this forum who have heavy duty mounts, probably 90 percent of them have an EQ6. For the price and for a reasonable load as in (4) they can produce great images. If pushed by a skilled person (ICEMAN) for example then they can produce geat images with 22kg of load.

Paul

[mick pinner]

maybe for short planetary work but not for long exposure deep space stuff carrying 20kg.

[Zuts]

At the end of the day, no serious imager would do DSO work without guiding so I dont see the relevance of this particular bunch of figures.

Paul

[mick pinner]

if the guider has better tolerences to work with it will then guide more accurately especially at high loads.

[Zuts]

I agree. However for FL up to a reasonable level and a reasonable load guiding on a EQ6 produces good results so the 22 arc seconds quoted is not relevant.

As i said though if he wants to wack 20kg on it then probably a G11 would dissapoint as well. If he doesnt or if he just wants to do planetary stuff then go the EQ6.

Maybe Babalyon could tell us what he wants to take photo's of and what scope he is planning to use.

I really dont want to sound biased but i would never recomend a G11 to a beginner unless of course they have cash to burn. I could say get a Titan/Tak/STL11k but why frighten him off astro photography before he even starts.

Paul

[skwinty]

I recall reading a post from Alchemy where he states that the slightest breeze sets his 12" ota on a g11 dancing so i agree with the above statement.
Now for a suggestion.
Why not have a shoot out between eq6 owners.
Set a "DSO" as a target and let eq6 with whichever scope and camera, guided or unguided take a few pix. Post the results on this forum and let actions speak louder than words. Obviously stating all the gen on scope camera weights etc for each pic.
I have an eq6 pro, a 12" newt and a canon 40d. I do not have autoguiding and so would limit exposure time and track and stack.
As a newcomer to astrophotography i cannot speak from experience but i am willing to accept the advice from the eq6 forum and move forward from there.
The popular opinion amongst the majority of owners on the eq6 forum is that with guiding and heavy loads the eq6 performs well enough for serious long integration astrophotography.
I am sure that this would be an interesting exercise and would go long way in assuring low budget astrophotographers of the capabilities of the eq6.
I realise that I may have to either go for a smaller scoper or a larger mount sometime in the future, but for now my budget only allows for what i have, and i sure want to use it rather than relegate it to the cupboard while i wait for a winning lotto ticket.
Regards
Steve:thumbsup:

[Peter Ward]

Sounds like an each way bet to me :)

Either the mount holds the payload and produces nice round stars or it doesn't. If it does be happy.

If it doesn't then you need a bigger/better mount.

[Matty P]

Not this again... :lol:

For my budget, I decided to go with the EQ6 pro. The garden rock is just way out of my budget. :rolleyes:

For the price, the EQ6 would be a great way to start out in long exposure astrophotography. Although if you have the funds, by all means go with the G11.

[skwinty]

Point taken.
But then I could opt for a smaller scope.
Havent been able to test the grand theories as yet because I dont have a focus extender for visual use. Bit hard setting the eq6 for accurate polar alignment without visually checking.
Will try dismantling my barlow and using that to get the 5cm back shift.
Hope to try that this evening weather permitting. Used the dobby and the canon the other night on the moon and was very happy with the result after cutting 5cm off the tube.
Regards
Steve:)

[xelasnave]

I have been experimenting with a 12 inch (dob) on my eq6.. the mount seems adequate and the area of problems seem to be in the flex with the 12 inch ota... fixable I feel.
I have not added a guide scope yet but I am getting unguided runs of 200 seconds and that is without any PE training which I feel will let me go much longer unguided..

I do think however that having the mount on a solid pier is very important... also I am careful not to place any strain on the gears..so I move the scope manually to the traget.
I recently pulled the eq6 apart and polished the gears and as far as PE goes I think it will show little.

Needless to say I would prefer a more expensive mount but at around $2000 the eq6 is very good value... I never thought I would use the 12 inch on it so my expectations could not be destroyed..there were none.

My aim was to get a good 100mm and go for as little weight as possible..when I have the 6 inch and guide scope it is a dream ...but I must say I have not used a decent mount like the others mentioned so I have nothing to compare with.

What do you intend to mount on this mount is perhaps a good question..all up weight and how it will be distributed ...

And welcome from me if you get an eq6 I dont think it will disappoint but perhaps consider a pull down and blue print ..
alex

[madtuna]

Alex, have you noticed much of a difference before/after?
and was it easy enough to do? ie: basic common sence..what comes out goes back in the same way etc..

cheers,
Steve

[skwinty]

I found that if I moved the dovetail back until the ring was very close to the eq6 head then the dovetail flex disappears leaving only tube flex which should really be minimal unless there are strong winds.
But as I said earlier, still to test the grand theory.
Regards
Steve:)

[xelasnave]

I took time mainly for thinking the next step...
The first pull down took hours because I did not want to stuff anything.

Yes after I put it back together and found no bits left over I must say it seemed better ..however I have no graphs so it may be me kidding myself.

But I have always found polishing moving parts effective and sometimes there is something that the factory never intended.. but the gears were better than I expected and sat very nicely with wear indications that they were sitting perfect.. such is not always the case ..I put it back together with no greese and used only light machine oil..on the basis that it will be pulled down often .... also I feel there were some squashed bugs in the gears maybe caught by the greese and so oil was my choice...

The only thing that threw me was removal of the conical bearing on the RA..I thought it was screwed in so I spent hours loosening what I thought was a screw washer but it was part of the bearing..so I was unscrewing something that had no thread... I can now pull it down and put it back together in under five minutes...
alex

[xelasnave]

Steve I have no rings a bolted the dove tail to the OTA with a piece of timber shaped to meet the curve on the inside of the OTA..this is reasonably efficient however I feel I will reassemble it and add glue to the timber (hard as nails or similar) so as to bed the timber on the inside of the OTA... this should fix the flex however some additional brakets will fix it for sure..I opted for no rings simply to keep the weight down... if I like the set up I intend to build a lighter OTA ..my main concern is that it is so big and at the moment the EP sits such that I have to get on a cahir or ladder to look thru the camera..I can fix this by reconstructing the pier but I builtthe thig so strong it will be a job to cut it down...
Also as strange as this sounds I seemed to get more light than I needed... for the stuff I like to photograph.. 200 seconds (unguided is easy) and a stack of 200 second subs is more than I need.. the dark location lets me get a lot ... but you know how it goes one has to have a go because it is there..but in truth I feel the set up for me finally is a good 100mm refractor and 10 minute guided runs... before the pull down I was getting runs of 9 minutes with little attention to correction of RA and those "bumps" may well be gone after the "blue printing"

alex:):):)

[g__day]

Guiding is retrospective, so it minimises tracking errors - they still occur - they just get adjusted continually - after they occur.

Excellent PE stops them from happening - thats why the Paramount ME is a 1 arc second build quality - I've heard of ones that track to 1 arc second an hour precision!

Guiding is like driving round a bend fast and having a safety rail that you keep bouncing off, so the worse PE - the more scratches. Fewer corrections - better shots.


Worse the larger your PE - the more chance it is uneven (irregular) - so the harder it is to guide out - or put another way the higher percentage of time you are gathering photons and you're off target on your shot.

[marc4darkskies]

You've hit the nail on the head!! Give your stars as smooth a ride as your wallet will allow and know the limitations of the equipment before you buy. IMHO buying stuff you know you'll grow out of quickly can be less economical than spending more in the first place and certainly more frustrating. Of course, you'll need to match your goals with your wallet. EG: If you're never going to image DSOs at a long FL then you'll probably never need to spend a $squillion on a PME (unless you just like the look of the thing ;)).

Cheers, Marcus

[Babalyon 5]

Thankamayou!!!!


20kgs would be nearly all up, which is an LXD55 SN10, guide scope & DSI,s(colour1 & Pro2). Also, with the Envisage and an LX200 command emulator, you dont really need a guide scope. Enjoying the replies, very helpful.:D

[Babalyon 5]

What other manufacturers of mounts are there? I tried several Googles with differing search titles, however, I don't seem to get too many brand variations.:shrug:

[Matty P]

I don't think there are any other mount manufactuers other than the following.

Skywatcher
Losmandy
Vixen
Takahashi
Celestron
ParamountIt really depends on how much money you are willing to spend. If you have the money to burn, go with the biggest and best mount you can afford.

[marc4darkskies]

Don't forget Astro-Physics!! (Mach 1 GTO and 900 GTO)

Cheers, Marcus

[Babalyon 5]

I s'pose what Id really like is a Paramount ME. Being married with kids, Id say it'll be NOT one of them!:(