Aussie made

[mick pinner]

l have finally deceided to take on the challenge of making Aussie made accessories for our hobby, l am currently working on a few projects for forum members but due to time restraints with full time work things have not progressed as l would like so therefore l am going to take on the project full time, the dew shields l make have taken off quicker than l would have expected and this has given me encouragment to pursue other items.
What l would like is for any members who may like to give initial input as to what they would like to see locally produced and therefore cheaper and easier to obtain than imported articles. All ideas and suggestions are gratefully accepted, as with the shields a percentage of all sales to members will be directed back to Ice In Space in the form of donations to Mike.

[Dennis]

Hi Mick

On my list are:

• Dew shield for soon to arrive C9.25.
• Various adapters for fitting LPI, DSLR, ST7 ccd camera to 1 1/4' and 2" focusers.
• Dovetail mounting bar for Vixen mounts.
• "Scope covers.
• Dew heaters.

Hope that helps but please do not take these suggestions as a promise to purchase as I have yet to do sufficient research to establish my requirements.

I wish you every success and it would be just great to have a local supplier.

Cheers

Dennis

[slice of heaven]

Way to go Mick :thumbsup:

All the best with it.

Another void filled for Australian and NZ astronomers.
The times are a changing.

[dhumpie]

Could we place orders now :)

Darren

[mick pinner]

A base range of products will have to be deceided on, obviously it is impossible to make a full list of products right from the word go, as the more wanted items make themselves sustainable then l can move on to other things, at the moment l'm looking for what you guys find you need so l can look at how to structure the first set of products that l produce.

[h0ughy]

Hey mick what about a mounting bar for a refractor on the 12"

[ballaratdragons]

To: PSI (Pinner Scientific Instruments)

Affordable EQ mounts for all the GS dobs out there! 8" to 12". There are hundreds of GS dobs in Australia alone!!

[[1ponders]]

A side by side mounting plate for imaging and guidescope to help keep the centre of gravity lower

[acropolite]

Still waiting for the prototype weight system....:D

[mick pinner]

What would you or anyone else call affordable, have had very little to do with dobs so give me some leads to what you want and l'll have a look, l've managed to arrange help from some of my mates that range from electrical engineers to aluminium fabricators so anything is possible in time.

[Jonathan]

It's good to see you take on this challenge Mick. Some of the accessories out there are so overpriced for what they are. One example is the dovetail I made for Striker's C-11 last week (and one for myself). The cost for him to get one from the USA was $220, the cost for me to get the structural grade aluminium was $21. I made 2 of them in an afternoon. If they were to be made in a very small production run at a fair profit they could be done for less than $60 each.
One suggestion I have is piggy back camera mounts. They are way overpriced from what I've seen.
Good luck with it Mick! :2thumbs:

[ballaratdragons]

Mick, President of PSI, 'Pinner Scientific Instruments'
Makers of Australia's leading Astronomical & Scientific Instruments

I was thinking something along the lines of 2 sizes of EQ mount. 1 for the 6'-8" GS Dobs and 1 for 10"-12" GS dobs.

By 'affordable' I mean it would be good to keep the 6"-8" model under $800 and the 10"-12" model under $1000.

It would be good if it was designed to add GoTo at an extra cost.

[mick pinner]

hi Phil, this is what l mean by having to make a decision to do this full time l expected to have the weight system finished 2 weeks ago and l expect it to be another week away.

[slice of heaven]

Only stumbled on that setup this week, looks acceptable but couldnt find an offsite review on performance, has anyone else?

[[1ponders]]

I saw one in NZ (home made) at the astrophotographyfest. It was a sweet setup and made the whole mount much easier to balance.

Check this image
http://www.possumobservatory.co.nz/taupo-11.jpg

And this one for similar setup for piggyback camera work
http://www.possumobservatory.co.nz/astrophotography_camp_2005-piggyback.htm

[asimov]

One thing that springs to mind Mick is tube's for big reflectors. Although, there's probably not too many people out there making their own scope's these days. There may not be a big enough market for it..

When I made my 12.5" newt I tried to source big dia. tubes to no avail...I got told to try in the States. ( I'm talking 2mm ally here)The price to get a 16" dia 6' long tube from the States was laughable, so I made my own. The next trouble I had was getting a sheet big enough to roll....Unless doing a special order, you could not get a sheet big enough straight off the rack from onesteel.(or anyone else in AU) standard size is 2400mmX1200mm as you probably know.....that's why my tube ended up 15" in dia. rather than the 16" dia. which is what I wanted.. I nearly went 1.2 zinc-anneal but too heavy.

The other product lacking in AU is affordable EQ mount's! Do you have access to a reasonable size lathe? My mount is fairly close specs wise to the Parks mount that hold's their 12.5" OTA and anyone can buy one.....suffice to say I made mine at a fraction of their cost.

Sight-tube's......

Universal fitting motor-drive sub-assemblie's & complete unit's for home-built mounts such as mine..

Curved/straight spider's & holders.

Tube rings.

Primary mirror holder's.

[davidpretorius]

Hey Mick,

Would be happy to host a website and shopping cart with in built accounting system for your business venture for a couple of years to get you off the ground. The only charges would be transactions fees that the bank charges me for transactions done over the internet via credit card etc and domain registration of a name etc.

[mch62]

There are more than you might realize making there own scopes and over a certain size a truss assemble is the logical way to go for a tube.
lighter and stiffer and no tube currents to worry about.
Also very forgiving in the contruction stage to placement of components.
Large EQ mounts would be nice.
EQ mounts are a problem when you start talking 12" plus and longer focal ratios.
The EQ6 or G11 is not really up to the task for imaging at least and the next thing are the mounts from Anseen industries (AUS) but from memory they start at $6000.

Getting large accurate worm and wheel gears hear in the 12" plus range is a expensive exercise as well and you don't get much change out of $2000 each with motors to that you have to find a descent controller .
I even tried to get the gears made locally but gave up.
The price seams double or square over a certain size .
Hence I went the low cost friction drive route and made my own mount .

I am sure there must be others out there that would love to step up from an Alt AZ mount (Dobsonian) into EQ tracking or even ALT AZ tracking with field rotation.
I have had a few PM's asking this very question of 12" GSO owners wanting a solid EQ mount.
The thing is , it's hard to make one cheaper than the Chinese .

A nice big 6 mega pixel large format monochrome cooled CCD camera would go down well. :2thumbs:

[davidpretorius]

my other business ventures include representing manufacturers / importers on the island nation of tasmania. companies like Flexovit (Now part of the world wide company Saint-Gobain) need to work on margins of at least 40% to cover r&d, marketing. watch selling your product too cheap, cos if all of a sudden you have to draw a wage or pay someone else and all those extra costs, there will be no more you and your great gear.

We also represent 1-11 tool boxes who import the steel and alumiumium tool boxes from china(just remembered that one of the aluminium is 1250mm wide, which is close to the length of the 12" dob i am looking at). What many engineering shops said would have cost them $500 to $700 in labour and materials, now can be imported from china, shipped around the country and sold retail $399. So no doubt the chinese can do the simple things well, but there is a huge market for specialised product that suits our market that the chinese would not even look at the qtys.

[Astroman]

I would like to see a universal motorised focuser controller that can be computer driven or manually, with a counter of some sort so you can go back to the place where you want to go. Universal so it will adapt to almost any focuser on the market today. Or....... Build the crayford focuser or moonlite type focuser with this attached.

[GrampianStars]

G'day Mick
cc: others

Lets see fro the Meade 14" ?? shopping list for starters
Dew sheild
2 D weight & rail system
rail system & mounting bar cw tube rings to suit ED 100
digital motorised focuser controller
adapters for fitting LPI, DSI-Pro,ME2 camera, CFW-2 filter wheel, to 1 1/4' and 2" focusers
Mitty 14' wedge to concrete peir adaptor plate :thumbsup:

[mick pinner]

hi Robert, l'm just starting to do the shields for the 14" and the weight and rail system will be done soon and be able to be used in either 2D or 3D format and l'm working on the guide scope mounting rail so some of it is under way.

[asimov]

I guess I'll just be happy about my EQ mount costing less than $500 to build, & my motor drive which is being built as we speak (the controller for the stepper) which is costing me about $50.

[iceman]

I think it's a great idea Mick, australia certainly needs some competition in the astronomy market.

Very much appreciate the thoughts of IceInSpace too.. thanks very much!

[frogman]

Mick i would put in an order for sure for an Eq style mount for my 12".... nothing flash just the ability to put dsc's on later no motors or anything like that... just to be able to get rid of that ugly wooden box they come in !

Is there anything like that without "buzz click" stuff attached? ? ? ? no power no wires just a mount on a tripod ? ? ?? ?

Anthony

[mick pinner]

l'm pretty sure that nobody in Australia could compete with the Chinese when it comes to making affordable yet wonky EQ mounts, the set up and research costs including Australian made components would put the mount into the high end market, unfortunetly then you start competing on the price level of Losmandy etc, personally paying something like $1300 for an EQ6 is quite reasonable and l think that unfortunetly in most peoples price range then the Chinese have us by the you know whats.

[davidpretorius]

mick & others

a dob has two degrees of freedom i assume. one in 360 degrees around the base and one from zero to 90 degrees. How hard to motorize these two movements.
Can someone display some close up pics of the two areas, ie the base and top pivot point. I played with stepper motors in the late 80's as part of my BAppSci. How hard to spin base and (x&y axes) and then z axis again. I can easily link stepper motor(s) control through my laptop parallel port to control.

[Iddon]

wtg Mick. As you know - Lx200 weight system (modules) and Dew shield are me immediate interests :) I hope this works out well for you mate.

[Orion]

Hello Dave,
This is the way I went about it with my scope. I bought the motors ect as a kit and then installed them(a picture says a thousand words)

[davidpretorius]

great, thanks.

now for the arguments-------how accurate are these setups compared to eq's.

Mick, as we discussed on phone, noobies are going for dobs for cost. I am also thinking dob for my 5 year old daughter as it i not too far off the ground. Also as i start to play with linking webcam and servos, would stability suggest dobs are better?

Orion, have you linked to a computer? I assume this is what people talk about when they mention GOTO?

[Orion]

GoTo is the capability for the scope to slew to its destination. This can be achieved by several ways. I don't use a computer as such I use the argonavis via the servocat and that gives me GoTo and tracking capability. You can use the computer for GoTo as well if you wish.

[asimov]

And the total cost for tracking & goto for a dob ?

[Orion]

Depends on the size of the dob. All I can tell you is that it wasn't cheap.

[davidpretorius]

$1000 for a 12" dob which i can always buy a e6 mount down the track and attach scope to , but i spose you are looking at $1500 odd for a good sturdy e6. how much more for motors as opposed to adapting a dob?

[davidpretorius]

ok mick, summary for me.

stepper motors being applied to crayford focuser and positioning of scope being driven by laptop or over the internet with webcasting facilities.

[beren]

Some things that come to mind ......

1/ A wheely bar like the JMI or scopebuggy to move around scopes , very expensive the ones mentioned

2/Wedges , the meade superwedge is pricey and needs to be retofitted to make it work smoother , the Mitty and Milburn types cost probarly double that of the meade.

2/Mounting assisant plates with accessory holes for LXs

3/Bolts with hand knurled knobs to replace standard LX type allen key bolts, found it impossible to find anything suitable locally with american bolt threads.Just makes life easier without needing tools to set a scope.

4/ Dont know if its possible but what about a tripod with 2.5 inch tubular legs like the meade 12"lx200 feild tripod

[elusiver]

motorising the dob would be a big job.. as you can see on orion's scope.. alot of work, time and effort. To simply whack something together would be easy.. but to get something that works at a level that would be usable.. it'd be hard. It's something that I've given some thought to over the last couple weeks. Plus u'r main hardware, which would probably be u'r steppers(u'd need some decent ones) and a couple of good encoders would work out around/over $500.. plus labour and other hardware, encoder box etc it'd get fairly pricey.. add to that initial development costs it'd be hard to make a go of it as a business.. as it'd really only be good for people like orion who are lucky enough to have monster dobs, as pricewise it'd come close to an eq6. but it'd be a great DIY project, which is the way i'm looking at it.

just some thoughts..
el :)

[davidpretorius]

as i am very inexperienced at this, if it costs the same to motorise the dob as a good heavy duty eq6, then i reckon i would still choose a dob.

as long as the accuray was the same!

[mick pinner]

hi Dave,to buy and then motorize a large aparture dob l can understand because the eq mount required to carry the ota would be truely expensive, l'm talking 14" and over, but in the 8 to 12" range why would you want to buy a dob and then go to all the trouble of fitting tracking to a base that did not have this purpose in mind in the first place. l certainly understand that a lot of people buy dobs because of the lower cost per aparture way of getting into astronomy and when people join this forum and ask about scopes generally they are pointed in this direction but then a lot of these people see the great photos that are posted and think l would like to do that only to find that the scope they have bought does not have that ability, l am not saying that everybody that starts in astronomy should rush out and buy a 10" SCT but it should be understood that this is not a cheap hobby, in my opinion a little bit more money spent in the beginning will save money in the long run, we've all seen what second hand equipment sells for compared to new.

[elusiver]

mick.. as point for your business perhaps you should concentrate or more 'solid' products.. adapters, wedges, t-mounts, wheel bases etc. things that aren't complex to make but are abit more specialised and aren't mass produced.. Wheeled bases would probably be your best bet for a new product as it is something that almost all astronomers could use, so you've have access to a large market providng you could cater for different types of scopes/mounts. It may also be worth down the track looking a truss dobs and parts, as they are large and bulky and a pain for shipping.. so there would be a local advantage, but a smaller market there.

el :)

[mick pinner]

your pretty much spot on el

[gaa_ian]

Hi Mick
Getting back to the Aussie Made accessories wishlist.
Some of the smaller Item's such as:
- Bracket for mounting a Laser pointer on a scope
- Universal Camera Adaptors
- Padded bags for reflector OTA's
The cost of freight on some of these items from the US is prohibitive.
Some because of their bulk, for the smaller Item's freight is a big proportion of the cost.
I wish you every success in your enterprize.

[elusiver]

the JMI wheely base looks like something u could easily 'adapt'.. and something that I'd definately be interested.. gave some thought to DIYing it.. but.. the skills(i.e welding) to do it properly required are beyond me..

also.. maybe a a hard padded wheelie type case thing for otas.. like those suitcase bags with the trolley wheels at the bottom..

el :)

[Roger Davis]

I started making parts as Scope Restore over 15 years ago. The demand is so low and the cost of production so high . First you have to come up with the ideas, then buy the materials, set up the equipment, time, time time, build a tool to make a tool that doesn't exist, time, time, advertising, visiting clubs (petrol), push your product, lack of demand. I still have over 40 finderscope mounting brackets to take from 30mm to 50mm finders, I still have six 8" mirror cells, four 10" mirror cells, truss tube telescope front ends and backs for which I had to design and build: a 1/2 tonne press; a bending machine; a rolling device; and several mandrels from 20mm to 500mm accross. There is just not enough demand for multiple production. We have around 10,000 amateur astronomers in OZ compared to over 200,000 in the USA. Once you have the market flooded with goods, the demand drops. And once you do have the ability to produce these things, along will come some Chinese guy who looks at your website and starts to manufacture the same thing at a fraction of the cost. Just look at the Rigel Systems original Skylite Torch. It retailed for about four years before the Chinese close copied it and flooded the market with the clone. It once cost around $36 now you can pick them up for $15. Rigel Systems went and reinvented the Starlite making it waterproof and giving it white and red LED's that are variable in intensity. Who will take the bet as to how soon the Chinese will copy this one? Hmmm? Sorry for being so cynical, but a balanced view is good.

[mick pinner]

my aim is to make a specific range of products to service a small market, l don't intend to sell a million of any of my products which is what the Chinese rely on, low cost, low profit, multiple sales. the biggest factor in making these products is research in sourcing materials and the people that have the skills to turn these materials into the products you need, we still have the ability in this country to produce a good product at a good price all you need is the will to do it.

[davidpretorius]

here here!

[miketheobscure]

I bow to Roger Davis's experience, but I think you need to pick stuff that it's just not going to be economical to import because of its bulkiness. If such a beastie exists.

With the bulkiness idea in mind, and not sure whether your experience is woodwork, or metalwork, or both, (or neither!) I've got the following possibilities. I've thought about just this sort of business, but I'm in the neither category with regard to practical skills, so realistic for me it ain't.

Metal:
* Wedges for SCTs.
* Piers & pier adapters.
* Mounting plates (side by side, vixen to losmady adaptors, etc. The specialised stuff the Chinese don't do)

Wood (could also be metal, but wood's better):
* Equatorial tables for dobs (a much better idea in terms of simplicity of manufacture than GEM mounts, you can make those later on!)
* Truss Newts in a small variety of middle sizes, say 10-14".

On the Newts: Don't go head to head with the Chinese on small or enormous scopes. You could sell these as dobs or to mount on GEMs, just the frames without the mirrors. You could sell them as kits to assemble or you could finish them off, with or without all the accessories (finders to spiders, offer new bits as you accumulate capital. Look at how much it costs to import a telekit and see what your mark-up here could be, think Telekit, Tscope, etc.

Good luck with it, Mike

[miketheobscure]

Rodger, where on your web site does it say you're selling parts for truss Newts? 10" mirror cells? Truss fronts & backs? Where? How much??Regards, Mike

[Roger Davis]

They don't appear on the website for the simple reason that they were written off the stocktake of Scope Restore back in 1991. I have a few of the items in my junk bin which get sold every now and then. I am using the truss components for my own scope. Our website tells you about our restoration and fabrication services. If you take on the business of making parts for amateur astronomers, you had better make sure you have a good day job.

[miketheobscure]

As Python once said, it's not much of a cheese shop is it ... :doh:

Don't take this the wrong way, cause maybe it's just me, but when someone says they're a retailer, and they talk about all the stuff they built to sell that's now sitting around gathering dust, is it too much to think it might be ... you know ... for sale?

"...I still have over 40 finderscope mounting brackets to take from 30mm to 50mm finders, I still have six 8" mirror cells, four 10" mirror cells, truss tube telescope front ends and backs ..."

A potential customer says, hey, you just wrote in saying you’ve still got all this stuff I’m interested in, tell me how much you want for it. Give me a deal. Sweet talk me ... or look, I'm easy, just show me the web site I can click ... and the answer? Nope. You can't have it. Sure I just said I’ve got it, but really I threw it out 15 years ago. I might get a bit out of the bin & sell it from time to time, but not to you, not now. I’m not even going to tell you a price, cause I’m using some of it for my own scope …

What about, sorry, it's not on the web site cause that's only the new stuff, but there's A & B still left, and it'll cost you $X and $Y, but hurry, they won't last at these crazy low, low prices ... No? :shrug:

Regards, Mike

[Roger Davis]

15 years ago people were looking for finderscope rings that could be screwed onto cardboard tubes and had three screw admustment. Nowadays people are upset if it isn't an orthoganal adjustment. Times change and so the requirements of most people.
According to the guidelines of this forum, I cannot advertise and I am restricted as to what I can say. Anyone else with business interests take note of those restrictions!
Check my website again.

[Dave47tuc]

Many years ago a brought some of those rings. Even today I may not have them but I know the person who does and they are still as good now as then :thumbsup: