Apollo 11: The Untold Story

[AJames]

Some general information, especially in Sydney as we are likely to have another cloudy night..

On ABC 1* in Sydney and Melbourne, and probably everywhere else in Australia, there is an interesting program called "Apollo 11: The Untold Story", it will be on between 9.20pm and 10.14pm. Produced in 2007, it apparently talks about the "untold dangers" during the mission and has interviews of the astronauts. Might be interesting - especially as it is a first screening.
Interesting to hear the post-screening low-down and what people think....

Get your eight cents worth!! :thumbsup:

Andrew :)

* Still haven't go use to calling Channel 2 as ABC 1 - and I hate the imposing coloured watermark. This looks especially poor over black and white footage.

[iceman]

Saw that in the TV Guide last night.. thanks for the reminder.

[OneOfOne]

You just beat me to it by 3 minutes....I was just about to post a reminder too. Looking forward to seeing it some time in the next couple of weeks, I rarely watch any TV live these days. So much better to watch it when you want to :)

[AJames]

Agreed, but tonight also has;
- "Good News Week" on Channel 10
- The new series "Dirty Sex Money" 15 minutes later in Channel 7!
- Missing the last 10 minutes of the vidiots "Good Game" on ABC2
- Lateline at 10.15pm cutting out 15 minutes of "Good News Week" and "Dirty Sex Money"

Typical, all at the same time, which I was hoping to watch later too.
Drats! Especially during this continuing inclement weather.

Must be the return of the ratings season.

[AJames]

It is on every ABC 1 Channel throughout Australia, all at the scheduled time!

[Matty P]

Thanks for the heads up. Looking forward to it.

[CoombellKid]

Thanks for the heads up!!

regards,CS

[edwardsdj]

Thanks for the heads up Andrew :)

Shame it cut's into the last 10 minutes of Good Game though :(

[Omaroo]

Watching this at school in 1969, and being an Apollo freak, I thank you! :)

[Ric]

Looks very interesting, I shan't be missing this one.

Cheers

[iceman]

and don't forget "So you think you can dance" in 10 minutes!

[sheeny]

Thanks for the heads up! I'll have to sit up and watch it;).

Al

[mark3d]

you can download good game from the ABC website.

the way dirty sexy money has been hyped, if not because of the title alone, my bet would be squarely on it being pretty average at best ;)

apollo wins :P

[madtuna]

soooo...what was it they saw out the window???


amazing show!

[Chrissyo]

Urgh, the segment about the "mystery UFO" made me cringe. They know exactly what it was! One of the SIV-b booster panels.

This program is trying to talk everything waaay up too much.

[netwolf]

As usual Collins did not get much of a mention and they skimped over the re-docking of the LM Ascent module with the command module.

In hindsight all things look like they are risky, but i think there determination to do it is what led to there success. I still look at the Saturn V's and think there has to be a better way, but then i am in awe that for its day and age it worked and did the job.


Regards
Fahim

[turbo_pascale]

There is a movie out in the US called "In The Shadow of The Moon". I managed to find a copy on the internet (don't expect it to come out in Aus based on it's very limited release in the US), and it is a much better movie than tonight's short version, without the hype, and with much more astronaut focus.
In it, they talk to most of the surviving astronauts (Neil Armstrong being a recluse is not in it), but Collins features heavily, and his attitude and recollections are refreshing compared to Aldrin's.

Still, I recorded tonight's movie this on my laptop, and have already watched it twice. It was a good little relaxing watch!

[Chrissyo]

'In the Shadow of the Moon' was (apparently) set to be released at the Greater Union/Birch Carroll and Coyle cinemas here in Australia on February 7th (it was in their "Coming Soon" section). But in late January it was kicked. I can't find mention of it being released in any other cinemas either. Looks like I'm going to have to track down the DVD.

I'm glad to hear that Collins is well featured in it - his biography 'Carrying the Fire' was a darn good read.

[edwardsdj]

It was a fascinating documentary.

I thought it was going to be a conspiracy theory beatup at first but it was OK in the end. The way they would throw in a quote from Aldrin or one of the ground controllers that only loosely backed up the drama was pretty funny. Like towards the start when Aldrin said of the night before the mission something like "I didn't get much sleep that night" and the narrator followed with something like "the crew were right to be anxious about the mission". I'd find it hard to get to sleep if I was flying to the Moon tomorrow myself :)

The way they dubbed that "beep beep" alarm sound over the footage when the 1202 alarm went off was pretty funny too. Why does everything have to be so hyped these days?

Unfortunate they had to put that UFO stuff in. Obviously, if you are coasting in a spacecraft and you see something out the window travelling with you it is something that launched with you and is coasting on the same trajectory. It was a real shame that Aldrin's quotes actually seemed to back up that there was something mysterious about it. Obviously, if they agreed not to inform ground control, they were pretty sure it wasn't aliens.

In the end, not a bad documentary though. I learnt quite a bit about the meaning of various parts of the voice telemetry during the mission that I was oblivious to before.

Thanks for pointing this out Andrew. I don't watch much TV (I hate people messing with my head) and would have missed it had you not pointed it out.

[Chrissyo]

Actually, if I recall correctly, Aldrin was quote mined in that specific segment. In the interview he did indeed mention that they were pretty sure the "UFO" was one of the S-IVB panels, but the producers decided to leave it out. Neil Armstrong's biography also provides this explanation.

The hyping up of this event to make it look like some unknown mystery craft really annoys me.

[edwardsdj]

I'm really glad he didn't really acknowledge it was a UFO :)

I forgot about that second speach that Nixon was going to give in the event they couldn't leave the surface. My understanding is that this speach had been prepared before the launch to manage the politics of the situation if for some reason they couldn't leave the surface.

There's nothing unusual about politicians having a couple of speaches up their sleaves for different contingencies :)

Spaceflight is dangerous. Astronauts do die. The first space shuttle orbital flight was interesting in that the shuttle needs people to fly it so no unmanned test flight was possible. Interesting design decision!

[OneOfOne]

I would expect that they would have "test pilots" lined up for miles to take the flight though. No matter how dangerous it may be, there will always be someone willing to risk their lives for the thrill. I guess we ultimately owe people like this a lot, otherwise where would we be if no one was willing to risk their lives. The movie "The Right Stuff" is an excellent demonstration of the fine line between brave and stupid!...love it!

[Omaroo]

"The Untold Story" - when I heard the narrators' voice my expectations went out the window - "oh no, not him". Since when has the ABC bought garbage from the Discovery channel to supplement its science content?

I'm sorry to say that I was disappointed in this show. It was narrated in the same softly-spoken doom and gloom Discovery Channel-esque style that I dislike "Seconds From Disaster" for, and was aimed at an audience that has otherwise no interest or knowledge in space, and particularly the Apollo era.

The simulated 1202 alarm sound was plain stupid, and really typical of Discovery. Maybe the real tension wasn't enough for the modern audience.

For all the hype in reference to "it can now be told", there was only one thing that was new to me - and that was the fact that Aldrin used a pen to flick a breaker. If you send up people as qualified as the two that went, a busted breaker would be the most trivial of problems. It certainly wouldn't have stopped the PhD engineer that Aldrin was - nor Armstrong.

Skipping off the atmosphere being dangerous? Wow! Who would have thought. I'm happy that the problem was finally able to be told....

There have been far better documentaries - some of them with more substance and less silly drama hype.

[AJames]

Thanks for this... I forgot I could do this on-line. Do so now...
Andrew

[Night Owl]

None of them had to acknowledge it was a UFO. It was, and still remains a UFO, because they still don't know what it actually was with 100% certainty!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlkV1ybBnHI

You heard Aldrin say himself that the SIVB booster was 6000 nautical miles away, as CAPCOM told them. That's 11,112 KM away! Thats seeing something not much bigger than a semi trailer thats further than the distance from Melbourne to London! If you could see it, it would have been less than a fly speck big.

What could it have been? That's why it is still a UFO.

[goober]

I taped it and will watch tonight. The fact they are beating up UFO's fills me with dread. (Perhaps it was John Glenn's frozen pee-pee?).

BTW, In The Shadow Of The Moon was bumped from Feb 7th to March 6th. http://villagecinemas.com.au/Movies/Coming-Soon-By-Release-Date.htm

[goober]

Agreed - one of my favorite books, very well written.

A good, obscure documentary on Apollo, Gemini, Mercury is "Moonshot". Narrated by an actor representing Deke Slayton in a "yee-haw" throttle jockey style, but good fun with lots of real astronauts chipping in.

[MrB]

Agreed, love it... not only because they mention my home-town :) (Rockingham)

RE: UFO's.... I think people are missing the point here... a UFO doesn't have to mean Aliens, its just an unidentified object!

I wondered about the distance/size thing too.
Still unidentified, not aliens, but unidentified.

RE: the pen... doesn't take a genius to come up with that idea, I'm far from a genius and I thought of it just after they mentioned the problem before they mentioned the pen. It's just lateral thinking that I reckon anyone could come-up with in the same situation.

I enjoyed the program, quite a bit I didn't know about, just gotta see through the hype and embellishments (alarm etc) and enjoy the footage.

[edwardsdj]

They did beat up a lot of things but considering the average quality of documentaries these days, on balance I found it OK.

[netwolf]

The funniest things was that during the docco my wife asked me would you go to the moon if they asked you. And in less than a second i said yes. Then i was cornered and trapped by the " and leave me here.."

[goober]

Be careful what you wish for... :)

http://www.twistedmojo.com/la.html

[Peter Ward]

Sorry for the cross post...

I turned it off as I thought it was hyped up rubbish.

I had the pleasure of meeting Aldrin and Alan Shepard (Apollo 14) and
Dave Scott and Jim Irwin (Apollo 15). even got a few autographs :)

http://www.atscope.com.au/BRO/images/astro_sigs.pdf

I spoke one on one with Alan Shepard for about 4 hours straight...wait for it..
back in 1988....

as he was being flown out for the Bi-Centennial Airshow (in the days when we could still allow flight deck visits.) and got a good insight from Alan on what the mission(s) involved, along with the earlier Mercury/Gemini programs (well, from a "piloting" point of view at least)

But I digress...

Sure there were risks, but they were blown out of all proportion in
what I though was a very shabby doco.

Cheers
Peter

[CoombellKid]

I watched the doco, regardless of whether it was beaten up or not.
I couldn't help but think what an awesomely great adventure it would
of been for those guys. Just imagine sitting in a tin can orbiting the
moon.

regards,CS

[madtuna]

ha! for a while I was starting to think I was the only one who enjoyed it.
I thought some of the footage was awesome, but then I'm also sitting up night after night watching NASA tv.

This morning I watched one of the guys spend about 3 minutes trying to push a simple plug home into its socket.
Zero gravity and those gloves make some of the simplest of tasks extraordinary challenges, so I could understand how a simple broken toggle switch could be a cause for extreme concern.

What they did with the technology of the day is in my mind simply amazing.
And like the fish that got away, if it was me floating about up there I'd beat it the hell up too :)

[Omaroo]

Ah yes Steve.... but in the LM they have an atmosphere and gravity. They could fix anything suitless. If it were outside, then that might be a tad more difficult. :D

[madtuna]

tah for the clarifacation mate..shows what I know..I was unaware the lander had an atmosphere. :screwy:
and I should have paid more attention to see if they were wearing suits or not lol

[norm]

Yeah thought the same Chris. It was a tad melodramatic. Pretty sure they used footage from other Apollo missions as well.

If Neil Armstrong had of made an appearance, or Collins that would have redeemed itself. 5/10



Now that would have been awesome. They're a dying breed and its a shame we don't hear more of them thru' documentries.

I still consider the Mercury, Gemini and Apollo missions the most interesting to watch and read.

[programmer]

I thought it was an entertaining show. I guess if they didn't work on the melodrama it would make for a pretty boring hour. As long as they stick to the facts :rolleyes:, let them have a little poetic license. The show mainly reminded me of just how 'impossible' a task they achieved with probably less computing power than your mobile phone. Just a lot of guts, quick thinking and amazing courage, both the guys in the craft and those on the ground. Awe-inspiring stuff.

[Peter Ward]

There are some great shows out there that really give you an idea of the cleverness and dedication given by thousands of individuals in to getting a man on the moon.

Even though it is a drama "From the earth to the moon" (series presented by Tom Hanks) shows much of what was required.

Sure many of the systems used back then, particularly digital ones, were very crude by todays standards, but they worked, and even more importantly the people used them understood how they worked.

I found the hype behind last night's show to be tedious. Makes me wonder how I ever managed to

climb a tree
own a spud gun and slingshot
ride a bike without a helmet
play with fire-works
make model rockets
fly glow plug engined aeroplanes in public parks
go surfing after a cyclone
make "touch powder"
drive on an autobahn at speeds that would see me gaoled in Oz

and still make middle age....

If you think about what could go wrong, you'd never get out of bed & I've gotta say I'm not in favor of "bubble wrapping" society to the point where
pushing the envelope...like going to the moon... is seen as being far too reckless and should have been banned.... sigh...

[ngcles]

Hi All,

Just watched the DVD recorded from this show last night. Great footage, but I agree with those that have commented that the presentation of the "story" was alarmist rubbish.


Best,

Les D
Contributing Editor
AS&T

[edwardsdj]

I read somewhere (I think it was an article in IEEE Spectrum) years ago that the person who originally proposed the lunar module envisaged a manually throttled descent engine (which they kept) and a plumb bob hanging from the ceiling of the module (which they replaced with instruments and computers).

We are so reliant on computers these days that people forget what amazing feats were accomplished without them.

On another note, the computer in a mobile phone is really very complex. I would have described the computers used in the Apollo missions as little more than simple programmable calculators, used to automate repetitive calculations that otherwise would have been done with a slide rule, pen and paper.

[netwolf]

The doco was about the Apollo missions, that was enough for me to watch.
Sure todays laptops and computers and mobile phones are great. But not many would understand them to a level were the could tell you every little detail about them. For example where the resolved the 1202 problem, did you see that sheet. Every possible problem had been documented. A simple error in MS windows is fobbed off with oh that normal just click ok and ignore it. Memory management is so crap in modern OS's.
Or for example during Apollo 13 the power-up procedures (accredited to Mattingly in the film). Such engineers have to know there systems inside out. I had a professor who told us about the days when they had to repair there calculators, yet we live in the days were we can almost dispose such things and replace them cheaply. Working in IT i have come accros the situation time and again were i have no choice but to format and start from scratch, because there is not enough information about the problem to fix it. Partly this is because not every combination of things can be tested for by every vendor. But this is exactly what the engineers at NASA did do, they new those "real-time" systems inside out.

Regards
Fahim

[Outbackmanyep]

[quote=Omaroo;296381]"The Untold Story" - when I heard the narrators' voice my expectations went out the window - "oh no, not him". Since when has the ABC bought garbage from the Discovery channel to supplement its science content?

I'm sorry to say that I was disappointed in this show. It was narrated in the same softly-spoken doom and gloom Discovery Channel-esque style that I dislike "Seconds From Disaster" for, and was aimed at an audience that has otherwise no interest or knowledge in space, and particularly the Apollo era.
[quote]

:lol: I totally agree!!!! I HATE the way they tell the story on "Seconds From Disaster" , then re-hash it 5 minutes later ....over and over....
I would have preferred Sam Neill to do the narration!
The UFO thing was hype! As you may well know, one of the other Apollo mission actually had a Saturn V stage follow them and crash on the moon, all intended no doubt!

[goober]

I finally caught up with the "Untold Story"? The only thing I didn't know was the UFO, which I am sure must have a logical explanation - surely it had to be part of the discarded stack post docking with the LEM. The rest of it ... the pen, the flashes in the eyes, the 1201/2 overflow alarms, the escape tower, etc - all been told before. The narrator's slightly breathless style was a bit much. :)

Roll on March 6th ...

[merlin8r]

Not too long ago, the Discovery Channel ran a series of excellent Apollo doco's. I just wish I could remember what any of them were called! Specifically they dealt with the missions through the eyes of the mission controllers, and it was refreshing to see many of the unsung heroes. Of particular note.....every year many of them gather for drinks and reminiscing, and always the conversation turns to The Fire....and they all become very solemn for several minutes, and nobody says anything. But the biggest picture I got from any of them, was how awesome Gene Kranz would be as a boss. The man just exudes confidence, and brings the best out of his men. And before the Apollo 11 landing attempt, he delivered a speech that ended with "No matter what, we all walk out of this room as a team", that ALL of his staff could recite verbatim to this day.
Edit: The show was called "Failure is not an Option", and was on the History Channel, not Discovery.