Who made indicating optional????

[Omaroo]

I cracked it last night driving home - big time. I'd been turned in-front-of by yet another driver who just didn't bother to indicate their intention with that funny little stick on the steering wheel. I've had a gut-full of it.

I've made a conscious effort to count the number of drongos who don't bother to indicate any more as they weave in and out of traffic and I'm convinced that there is an epidemic brewing. I FOLLOW THE RULES AND THE LAW - so why don't these idiots? I'm tired of assuming that someone is going to take that one-car space in front of me in traffic - and not even bothering to indicate that they intend to do so. It's bloody dangerous!!! The sad fact is that more people don't bother about indication than do - and I'm not making that up, it's my honest observation.

Has the law changed since I went for my licence back in 1979 or something? Do we not need to indicate before a lane change any more? I got caught twice when I was a 20-year old for not doing it - probably the only two times I forgot to do so. I paid the price and lost my P's for 6 months over it. Nowadays it's the norm, not the exception!

[/rant]

[xelasnave]

Now I bet you feel better.

Dont let them upset you ..if you let all those who do not do the right thing upset you life will forever be miserable...

Laws are not respected if they are not enforced so presumably the fine is not high enough to make it attractive for the Government to send out officers to raise revenue via enforcement of that particlular law... they had a lot of tecknology to pay for and lets face it ..the numbers must show that the new gear pays its way.. if we had a machine to detect turn violators it would be different... I hope you understand the the way it really works...it is not the drivers it is the lack of resolve by Government to the details of the act.(and regulations MTA)
alex

[Ric]

I'm with you on this one Chris, for me being a motorbike rider it's deadly.

You would think that the car companies are selling indicator bulbs as optional extras these days as they are so rarely used.

Cheers

[goober]

It is getting more common alas. I'm sure we all have peeves... here are my three ... :)

Mobile phones bolted to driver's ears.

Driving around suburbia with fog lights on.

I'm a pedestrian much more than a driver, and literally nobody gives way to pedestrians when turning out of a carriage way now. It's even difficult getting cars to stop at pedestrian crossings!

Every now and again, I get the triple - a car turning into me as I walk across the street, with fog lights on, and the driver on the phone ... :rolleyes:

[Omaroo]

Too correct Ric. That's why I don't ride any more. No-one in Sydney gives a toss about you, on your bike, any more.

[leon]

I am sure that I have mad mistakes on the road and probably even forgot to indicate. :shrug:

However I do my utmost to respect other drivers and try very hard to make sure I'm keeping within the law.

Now that said, there is one thing that really p.....me off.

I often let people in if the traffic is heavy and they are trying to get in, but only when I'm stopped, plus numerous good gestures, and the only people that don't give you a small thank you with a wave, or something are women, drivers, my wife agrees and she reckons that the women drivers expect this because they are female. :sadeyes:

Gee i feel better now :lol:

Leon :thumbsup:

[DJVege]

I seem to be having less and less patience for inconsiderate, or just plain terrible, driving!!!!!!!! It's either no indication, no idea what the road rules are or stupid bogans with done up P.O.S. trying to race NO ONE during peak hour!!!!!!

[xelasnave]

AND no one has a man carrying a red flag walking out in front anymore.
alex

[GrahamL]

I drive a windy 20 km stretch of the pacific hwy each morning and afternoon and over the last 12 years have seen and just missed some pretty horrendous stuff.. Pulled out in front of a b double a while back ..
when i say pulled out he was a l o n g way back ,but that was it I had pulled out onto his piece of road , he was already on his horn despite beingmore than 200 mtrs away in a 50 zone and a right angled corner he had to negotiate before getting anywhere near me .. other cars got between him and me and he just rode them with his horn and bull bar all the way out of town .when an overtaking lane showed up everyone let the nut go ..At the crest of the hill I went to pass him , well when I was just beside the front trailer he threw the cab into my lane sending me braking into the oncoming lane with a roadbike behind me doing the same .. nice eh ? :).. thankfully no traffic was coming over the crest at the time .. yes I did stop in at the police staion that afternoon .. Its best to call them at the time and they can stop drivers like this up the road I'm told .



this happened acouple months later locally .. I'm convinced this was the guy
http://www.northernstar.com.au/localnews/storydisplay.cfm?storyid=3758550

I don't know if this crew use indicaters .. you know I never notice:P

[Nightshift]

Oh yeah, this is my favourite, EVERY idiot with a piece of garbage Suburu does this, I have spoken to the RTA and gues what? It's illegal, you can only have 2 white lights on with on-coming traffic, anything else is considered high beam, so why do I have to put up with blinding lights while these #$^& get to see better than I do at my peril, in short they dont, EVERY time I see one of these people I hit high beam, they eventually do to but I dont care, just focus on the white line and not them. cops dont do anyting about it but boy if your tail light is out look out, they'll book you quicker than blink. I just dont get it.

[xelasnave]

They are all controlled by the Dept of Morons who are there to see to it that no one can ..have a nice day.

Just take the old side by side out of the rack behind the drivers head and fire a couple of warning shots into their legs.

alex

[vash]

I almost left a nice impression on a hoon yesterday. driving through the roundabout he came fly off the highway into the roundabout only looked after he entered it and to see my bullbar a foot from his door. Funny part was I was going the same way he was and after a couple of K's his driving was getting frantic. How arrogant, thinking I'd waste my time and fuel following him.

[Outbackmanyep]

The RTA have rules but no means to back it up all the time!
The police don't care if people don't indicate, unless its in an accident, because it's too much paperwork to book someone!!!!

Heres one...why is it...if you're going straight through a single lane roundabout do you have to indicate if you're NOT turning???? What a dumb rule......it causes confusion AND frustration and many near misses!

Did you know that if you're on a roundabout you don't have to give way to the right, if you are the one on the roundabout everybody else must give way to you!!! But you ask the RTA you get one answer, ask a copper and they give a totally different answer!!!!

As for accidents i think they should adopt a rule like Boating where you have to avoid a collision even if you're in the right of way!!!!

[Glenhuon]

The way I was taught in the UK was if you are going straight through at a roundabout, keep to the left hand lane and there is no need to indicate as you are not turning off the carraigeway you are on. If turning right use the inside lane and indicate right, when turning off indicate left, if turning left stay in the left lane and indicate ditto. I still do this, and never had a problem. Pretty easy, but I think some people get their licence in a raffle. :rolleyes:
On the other hand, if we had to resit our test every 5 years, how many of us would pass :lol:

Bill

[Louwai]

I was behind a young girl. She was driving a new VW beetle.
I was on my bike.
She had the phone stuck to her right ear. We were on a 2 lane section of road which merged into one lane.
I was looking over my right shoulder for a position to merge. I felt something hit my bike & I looked forward.
The flamin beetle was STOPPED in front of me.
It was the girl's ph hitting my bike that I felt..
This intelligent girl had quickly looked to her right to merge & while doing so, dropped her ph out the window of the car. She then jammed on the brakes.
I quickly steered to the right, JUST missing the rear of the car & headed up the side. THEN this stupid F***** girl opens her door.
I stopped with my front wheel just pushing against the interior trim of her front door.

THEN,
She steps out of the car & over my front wheel.
Trotts up the road, picks up her ph. Waves to the cars all stopped on the street behind her, PUTS THE PH STRAIGHT BACK TO HER EAR, walks back, gets in her car & drives away still talking on the ph.

I was dumbfounded. If I had my wits about me I would have taken her keys & left them at the nearest police stn.

[Omaroo]

:shrug: What are parents turning out these days?

[Glenhuon]

At the risk of getting blasted by the ladies in here.
Young women with P plates are the worst, most dangerous drivers on the NSW roads. Young guys may have the testosteron overdrive problem, but young women.... they just don't seem to give a darn about safe everyday driving. I've seen it all, phone on the ear, texting while driving, checking the hair and makeup while in traffic, spotting an interesting shop and turning across a lane of moving traffic. How do they get a licence !
Someone is falling down on the job at the testing department or we need to look at the test itself.

Bill

[Glenhuon]

I don't know if its changed in the UK, but when I first got my licence it was 3 strikes and your out. 3 speeding/ careless driving offences in 2 years, automatic 6 months without a licence, a hefty fine and no extraordinaries. Drink driving, hefty fine and mandatory 12 months + when you got it back the insurance companies multiplied your premium by 4. Second offence, a guest of her majesty and 2 years suspension. These stuck with you for 10 years.
Time to make the punishment harsher, only way to get these idiots into line.

Bill

[Omaroo]

You're right Bill - these young girls, in my experience, seem to be some of the most arrogant drivers on the road too. No wonder we are probably, for the first time in recent history, starting to hear about more young girls becoming actively involved in robberies and bashings than I can remember. I'm struggling to try and remember hearing about anything like this throughout the 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's. I guess that's what "equality" is all about, huh? :shrug: If they get caught then they should also be punished just the same - and I have a feeling they aren't.

Jeez I'm becoming a cranky old b'tard! I guess that I'm becoming sick and tired of the liberties modern kids expect - and worse, get. I'd like to meet one of these civil libertarians one day and have a word to them. I was disciplined as a kid and now, many years later, respect other people and wish the same back. The typical modern kid won't ever give me that.... but there are some exceptions that I've met, I'm glad to say.

Bring back the 70's!

[OneOfOne]

I remember a story that a guy I worked with more than 10 years ago witnessed. A large truck was coming up to a set of lights, not speeding, and as the lights turned red he began breaking, normally. Suddenly a driver changed lanes in front of the truck who had to hit the anchors so hard, smoke poured from the tyres as he tried to avoid creaming the car in front. Foutunately, the left most lane was empty and he was able to get the truck into this lane and bring it safely to a stop next to her car. Next thing the truck door opens and the truckie gets out, onto the roof of the car, down onto the road and tells the driver in no uncertain terms that he was "not happy Jan". He then climbed back onto the roof and up into the cabin. The lights were now green and he drove off....:rofl:

[acropolite]

Ditto in Tasmania, young girls are outright dangerous. I drive a lot of miles and all the close calls I've had have been caused by young ladies driving stupidly, carelessly or agressively.

[Glenhuon]

I don't think they do get the same treatment as male at the hands of the law Chris. Someone has taken the blindfold off Justice, a pretty face and some tears of remorse should make no difference, equality should be across the board. Ya do the crime, ya do the time, black, white, brindle, male or female.
( No, I'm not a misogenist, I rather like the ladies ;) )

Bill

[programmer]

With respect, you've ignored an important part of the rule. From the RTA web site:

6. You must indicate a left turn just before you exit unless it is not practical to do so.

Note the last phrase.
I must admit, I was never taught to do this and even after several years of driving I'd never done it. When I was 'learning to teach' my instructor said it was courteous and eventually I agreed. But I only do it when it's 'safe'.

If you're already on the roundabout, you *can't* give way to the right as you're already past that point. It's just not possible.

Correct, and I'd hope every licensed driver knows this! One exception is for a trams :) e.g. in Melbourne

That pretty much is the case. There's a common misconception about right-of-way: there is no 'right of way'. Find it somewhere in the road rules if you can. The rules talk about 'giving way', but not 'right of way'.

Safe driving

[programmer]

Ok, I have to stick up for us Subaru drivers here.. So does your post relate to 'good' Subarus or just garbage ones? ;)

Can you find the rule that says this? Are you talking about daytime or night time? I don't think it's illegal. The only mention I can find is for REAR fog lights. Search for 'fog' in this document: http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/rulesregulations/downloads/p13.pdf
I drive with my 'driving lights' on, which I don't believe are fog lights as they aren't yellow, whenever I'm driving. They are in no danger of blinding anyone, day or night.

[taminga16]

David,
As a motorcyclist I find 'driving lights' fitted to following vehicles difficult to deal with. Extra Light is reflected from fixed mirrors into and around the inside of the helmet creating distracting glare and shadows, shifting ones head position can be quite dangerous because it changes perspective of the road enviroment.

Regarding the following,

I drive with my 'driving lights' on, which I don't believe are fog lights as they aren't yellow, whenever I'm driving. They are in no danger of blinding anyone, day or night.[/QUOTE]

Check your responsibilities as a driver,

"Only the powerful and the stupid alter the facts to fit their thinking"

Regards,

Greg.

[OneOfOne]

My personal observation is that young female drivers are more likely to have a "low speed" accident causing mainly property damage. Their male counterparts are more likely to have "high speed" accidents and cause severe personal damage to others and themselves. If you see on the news a car wrapped around a tree, you can be pretty sure it will be a male driver, on P plates, under the age of 25. The tree is usually the only one for miles too.

[Glenhuon]

I was discussing this with my lady earlier today and we both have the same opinion re young male and female drivers. When I rode M/cycles in the UK 15 year olds could get a licence for a "super moped" ie, 50cc and could do 50mph with a following wind. Then the statistics showed that too many 15 y,olds were dieing, so they raised the age to 16. Guess what, the number of 16 YO accident victims went up. It isn't youth that kills ya, its inexperience.

Bill

[Mick]

Spot on Bill.

[Louwai]

I'm surprised that some older / middle aged people can't see the sense in the current motorcycle size restrictions.
2 ladies in the office at work, both in their late 40's couldn't understand why the young ones arn't allowed to ride whatever size bike they want.
After a discussion with them it was obviuos that they had absolutely no idea about the power of large bikes & the speeds attainable in very short distances.
They were comparing bikes to the only thing they knew, their small or family car.
Both of these ladies had seen my bike in the carpark.
When I explained that my bike had 6 gears & 140klm/hr was easily reached in 1st gear, 195klm/hr in 2nd gear, these 2 ladies started to realise why the restrictions were in place.
They started to think about the chest puffing, top speed proving, etc of young people. After about a 30min discussion they realised the reasons why.

[AJames]

When I first read this post it reminded me of the story of women who get pulled over by the police. It seemed the best form of "indicating" especially by some brazen woman drivers, was to hitch up the skirt a little by showing a little leg and/or by pulling down their dress fronts a little just to show additional cleavage - thus avoid getting a ticket. :wink2: Although such ideas might be construed as particularly sexist (they are sexist), the argument was that as in advertising has known all along, sex sells.
The counter-argument to this was that it explained why, particularly young women, were get much less tickets for traffic offences for males of equivalent age. This was assumed as an attempt to reject the atypical notion that women are safer drivers than men.
As to not indicating in traffic lanes or while cornering, isn't this these days just another reflection of selfish egocentric behaviour of our general Society.

"She'll be right mate";

seems now as ;

"She'll be right mate, but it of course wasn't MY fault!"

With the rise of car jacking, road rage :tasdevil: :fight: etc., it probably shouldn't be surprising that courtesy for others is on the decline. The issue here is more to do with the lack respect for others safety and one another. :ashamed:

Andrew

[Omaroo]

Andrew - I think you are right - and I'll go one further. I don't think it's a lack of respect, as such, but possibly a show of disrespect just for the hell of it.

It's a real pity that 30 year olds nowadays don't remember what driving was like 30 years ago. People were very different on the roads - it was FUN to drive because nearly everyone actually got along. It really wasn't that long ago, so what happened?

[Glenhuon]

Its the "Me" society Chris. Ever watched the Ad that says "For the most important person in the world, Me". Just about sums up what our kids are taught everywhere they look and listen nowadays. I was brought up to believe that other people (especially my elders) deserved my respect, unless they proved otherwise by their actions. Unfortunately for a significant minority this no longer holds true.

Bill

[RB]

A lot of people nowadays learn how to drive on a Playstation/XBox Chris, that's what's happened.
There's no indicators on them, no speed limits, no consequences, just a reset button.

But it goes deeper than just driving skills, we've lost a lot of skills, social and otherwise.

[OneOfOne]

I was talking to a friend who is a driving instructor and I think he summed up one possible reason for younger drivers seemingly being "worse" and having accidents. Back in the days when I got my license, 70's, you had maybe 4 to 6 months experience driving when you got your license. For the first few months you drive with some extra care until you get a bit more experience then you drive off "half cocked". Nowadays, you have 2 years experience (often with parents who can't drive anyway) and then get your license. So you get your license and you are already "half cocked".

My wife's daughter got her license late last year. The day after, she got in the car, picked up a couple of friends, drove into the city and went to a lecture about uni courses. I didn't drive into the city until I had been driving for a couple of months! Some of this is because she had more experience, some of it is naivity. I was driving 3 weeks before my first accident (5kph and $100), she took about 6 weeks (50kph and $2000, but I should point out she WAS in the right and it "wasn't her fault"). Many of her friends have also had accidents in the first few months.

The young drivers have more experience with someone watching out and then instantly get in a car on their own and don't realise how "different" it is! Turn the radio up, pick up a group of friends, show of their abilities, changing stations or CDs...and she wonders why we won't let her borrow the GPS!

[Nightshift]

Hi Programmer,

you are wrong and somewhat arrogant in your reply, yellow or white is irrelevant, white is worse than yellow and the glare from them is a problem no matter what, ESPECIALLY suburu ones that are generally larger than other cars, and yes, in my opinion, all suburus are garbage but I wont go in to that here. It is interesting to note that you live in Melbourne but your research shows a NSW RTA reference? In any case, let me quote the QLD Transport site which calls these lights, "Auxillary lights", quote -
Fog lamps are intended to improve the illumination of the road in
conditions of fog, snowfall, rainstorms or dust clouds. unquote. To read the whole document search VSI_G_1.0_Auxiliary_Driving_Lamps_F itted_to_Motor_Vehicles.pdf on the QT web site, it is quite clear that this is illegal. By the way, many cars that have these auxillary lights fitted also double their tail light brightness while they are turned on, this blinds the people travelling behind them as well as in front. If you were a half decent bloke you would consider other drivers on the road and turn them off in traffic, only small minded people with the "look at me, arent I importnat attitude" drives with these lights on around others.

Dennis.

[ving]

ah! what a world we have created... my daughter has become old enough to get her licience (i am scared!). hopefully she will hold off a bit till she is a bit more mature :)
cheryl hasnt had her licence for long but her attitude is of course a hell of alot different to kid when they get thiers... its an age thing :)

[rat156]

Hi All,

Firstly have to agree on the indicator thing, half of the drivers nowadays don't use them.

Have to agree with the bloody driving/fog lights things too. My car has both fitted, I use them in heavy fog so people can see the car. I sometimes drive back from Macedon to Melbourne late at night, you need something on the Calder highway there, it's like pea soup sometimes. Other than that, they are off.

A couple of points about the driving standards of young drivers. All in all, they're probably not a lot different now than years ago, sometimes they're better. But the combination of speed, alcohol and inexperience is a recipe for disaster, when you throw in large immovable objects on the side of the road it means death. Take for instance the recent deaths of four young guys on the Westgate freeway recently. They were in a lateish model Commodore, traveling way too fast, and the driver lost control. They hit a large Cypress tree not more than 10m off the side of the road, the car burst into flames and they were either killed on impact or incinerated. Tragic is the only word I can think of here. But what really annoys me is the trees. Why are they there? I drive at speeds approaching 200kmh in a 35 year old race car, I have had "moments" in the car at high speed, I've never been hurt. Why is this so? Because on the side of a racetrack there is stuff to slow you down, and when you hit something, it's usually designed to absorb the impact, or it's big and flat and distributes the imapct energy over a wide area. Next time you look at the news and someone has died in a single vehicle crash, have a look at what they've hit. Lightpole, tree, roadsign stanchion etc, they all have the same profile.

So in order to reduce the roadtoll, we need to either slow everyone down to about 40kmh, that's about the only speed you can hit one of these things side on and hope to not be injured. That proposition is obviously stupid, so we need to do the next best thing, on roads where the speed limit is higher than 40kmh (also proposing that all residential side streets be reduced to 40kmh BTW), remove or render safe all trees, lightpoles etc. A little bit of Armco goes a long way. With the amount of cash our state govt receives from speed and red light cameras this should be possible for all major roads in Vic. The rural roads would take much longer, but it is possible if you stick to the A and B roads.

Rant off.

Ooh that feels better!

Cheers
Stuart

[desler]

Hey all,

And to think Astronomy was supposed to get me away from all this!

Now, the dsiclaimer, I live in Victoria and as such abide by different road laws than some of you. My understanding of the law as it realtes to traffic use and safety, is a working understanding, I'm not an academic or social observer. I'm simply a bloke who gets out and about for about 10 hours per day in every sought of traffic you could imagine.

First, Driving lights, are the illegal = not in Victoria. All it states in the vehicle standards is that they must be clear as opposed to yellow fog lamps, in pairs and on a equal height, The actual standard uses another term but I can't think of it.

Do they annoy other drivers / road users, I say yes! but spending all day riding a solo, you'd expect that! Does the headlamp from my R12oo RT annoy tin top drivers = I bet.

As for attitudes, I agree with a lot of the comments, particulary oneofone, young female P plate drivers are more common to have, low impact, nose to tail, merging and failing to give way type collisions that we all find so annoying.

Younger males are going to hit you or an object very hard, for some reason they almost always kill themdelves but do untold horrors to their passengers, "NEVER BE BACK SEAT PASSENGER IN ANY VEHILCE".

In a sliding car, drivers will always attempt to get themselves away from the impact point, usually unconsciously, but they do a pretty good job of it in my experience!

I'm not sure about the other states, but have a look at the relevant road toll stats for 2007, they say numbers and stats can lie, try scewing these to show 18 -25 year olds in a better light!!!!

As for the rest of it, we can't chnage the kids of today. That's more of a societal problem. Keep your car in good nick! tyres, windscreen, brakes siganls and lights and practice those driving skills every know and then, no not going down the shops, go and have a play somewhere deserted and quiet, where you won't be embarrsed when you mess up.

And remember, it isn't the speed that kills usually, it's normally the sudden stop!

[desler]

Hey all,

And to think Astronomy was supposed to get me away from all this!

Now, the dsiclaimer, I live in Victoria and as such abide by different road laws than some of you. My understanding of the law as it realtes to traffic use and safety, is a working understanding, I'm not an academic or social observer. I'm simply a bloke who gets out and about for about 10 hours per day in every sought of traffic you could imagine.

First, Driving lights, are the illegal = not in Victoria. All it states in the vehicle standards is that they must be clear as opposed to yellow fog lamps, in pairs and on a equal height, The actual standard uses another term but I can't think of it.

Do they annoy other drivers / road users, I say yes! but spending all day riding a solo, you'd expect that! Does the headlamp from my R12oo RT annoy tin top drivers = I bet.

As for attitudes, I agree with a lot of the comments, particulary oneofone, young female P plate drivers are more common to have, low impact, nose to tail, merging and failing to give way type collisions that we all find so annoying.

Younger males are going to hit you or an object very hard, for some reason they almost always kill themdelves but do untold horrors to their passengers, "NEVER BE BACK SEAT PASSENGER IN ANY VEHILCE".

In a sliding car, drivers will always attempt to get themselves away from the impact point, usually unconsciously, but they do a pretty good job of it in my experience!

I'm not sure about the other states, but have a look at the relevant road toll stats for 2007, they say numbers and stats can lie, try scewing these to show 18 -25 year olds in a better light!!!!

As for the rest of it, we can't chnage the kids of today. That's more of a societal problem. Keep your car in good nick! tyres, windscreen, brakes siganls and lights and practice those driving skills every know and then, no not going down the shops, go and have a play somewhere deserted and quiet, where you won't be embarrsed when you mess up.

And remember, it isn't the speed that kills usually, it's normally the sudden stop!

[programmer]

Hi Dennis

I was writing a long-winded reply, but I thought it better to keep things brief. [edit: ok, not that brief!]

First of all, I hope we're all friends here at IIS :D I didn't intend to be arrogant. Sorry if it came across that way.

Your phrase "EVERY idiot with a piece of garbage Suburu" would be considered arrogant by some, and did raise my ire.

But, hope we can still be friends.

With that out of the way..

If my lights are indeed fog lights, I'll stop using them. I'm a half decent guy. I'll use my parkers, although they are even dimmer than my already dim fog/driving/daytime running lights. I want to use them as I believe it aids visibility of my vehicle, not to say "look at me aren't I great".

QLD appears to be different to NSW and VIC on the subject of fog lights. Front fog lights are not illegal in NSW or VIC in non-foggy conditions from what I read in the road rules. The RACV even says "There is no reason to use front fog lights during normal weather conditions, although this is not illegal."

However, as I've said, I'll stop using them.

On the other topic, IMO there have been too many generalisations made (young drivers, female drivers, etc). I used to teach driving and I only ever had arrogance issues with male learners. There are other factors too, such as many more cars on the road than in the 70's (for e.g), beginners having more powerful cars than back then (despite restrictions) and so on. And yes, general attitudes in society.

I'd lastly like to say that I often hear discussions about 'bad drivers' but it's funny that you only find 'model' drivers at those discussions. At the risk of sounding arrogant, I'm sure I could pick up half a dozen errors or bad practices within a few minutes driving with most of the drivers involved in those discussions (including car control/skill issues, not just road rules). Having said that, I admit I'm not perfect.

Safe driving.

[Mick]

QLD legislation about fog lights. Have a look at part 7/89.

http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/CURRENT/T/TrantOpRUVSSR99.pdf

[programmer]

Hi Mick,

Do you mean the section "89 Front fog lights"? And any specific part of it? Thanks.

[Nightshift]

Hi Mick,

I am sure we are still friends, I did say ïn my opinion" about Suburu's, I do have a lot of experience with them and have very good reasons for feeling this way, but as I said, wont get in to that here.

The PDF above relates to design standards of the fog lights, not the legal use of them, for that you have to refer to the document I quoted. I guess my point is valid, if the lights annoy other drivers, (and they do as you can read here) and they are not necessary (it's almost never foggy here like Melbourne, I spent 38 years on the Peninsula) then the only reason you would have them on is to draw attention to yourself and/or to annoy other drivers. Thanks for turning yours off, 1 down, 60,000 to go.

Cheers, Dennis.

[Mick]

Yes that's it section 89. And the following is the use legislation It's a 2.5mb download be warned.

http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/CURRENT/T/TrantOpRURR99.pdf
Part 13 Lights and warning devices. section 215 and 217.


The point that I make is that the QT site points to the legislation site for the current Queensland road rules. It's hard to know what the rules are sometimes by the way they are written, I guess that's why we have lawyers. I agree that fog lights are a problem when used in the wrong situation, but on a small country road at in bad weather at night they are great. With the optional indicating, I have been in the situation when some people indicate the wrong intention which is just as bad as not indicating at all.

[OneOfOne]

Interesting about trees, I have done a couple of advanced driving courses at Calder and they make an interesting observation/statement about trees. When a car is out of control, the mind notices a tree and as the car spins or moves out of control, the mind of the driver is thinking "where is that tree?" and they unconsciously steer toward it, eventually hitting it. They suggest in this circumstance you should try to think "were is that gap?" and you will be more likely to steer through it! A number of years ago I worked with a guy who said the same thing, he had lost control of his car one night and his car was heading for two trees. He can remember thinking "head for the gap" and he drove between the two of them, coming to a rest on the side of the road. He came back next day and measured the spacing to find there was only a few inches on each side. Admitedly, some of it may be sheer luck, but if you find yourself in this circumstance, even having the thought in the back of your mind may be enough to save you....so remember it! If you remove all the trees from the sides of roads, maybe they will slam into other cars or houses. I would rather someone slam into a tree than come through to my side of the freeway and slam into me!

As for reducing the speed limits, I think they are missing the point. If you can imagine a graph of the likelihood of having an accident versus speed, the likelihood increases as you increase speed and decreases with decreasing speed. The logical conclusion is, of course, that slowing cars down will reduce the likelihood of having a accident...duh! Finally, no one will have an accident when everyone travels at 0kph.... So after they reduce the speeds to 40 and people still have accidents (less severe) will they they decrease it to 35? If people are having accidents by travelling at 60 in a 60 zone, you need to do something about it. If people are having accidents by travelling at 130 in a 100 zone, there is no logical reason to expect that changing the speed limit would have any effect. I remember the Frankston Freeway used to be 110 for many years. Then some kids wrapped themselves around a tree and the limit was reduced to 80 for several years before it was eventually put back to 100.

[programmer]

Not a problem. Next we'll work on those damn motorcycle riders and maybe ute drivers after that.

[omnivorr]

what about the one's who indicate right and turn left???

OH YES THEY DO!! ...and have done, ever since I've been on the road.

but the"best" I encountered was a RR going the wrong way round a round-about... she tiara'd, he abusing me for being "in the way". I KID U NOT!!

[Nightshift]

LOL, actually, I am a bike rider, but I class myself as a good one, man there are some idiot bike riders on the road giving the rest of us a bad name, I find mainly they ride sports bikes or bare bikes, I ride a cruiser and generally find that cruiser riders are more sedate than sports bike riders, we dont have anything to prove where as sports bike riders I think feel that they have a fast bike and look lame if they arent proving it's fast, especially at the lights.

as for utes.......dont get me started, thats a whole new rant, ESPECIALLY diesel one's.

Cheers, Dennis.

[Glenhuon]

I really don't believe you guys :rolleyes:. Don't blame the trees, the light poles, the poor bugger in the lane going the opposite way. If you are driving at the appropriate speed and paying attention to what you are doing, i.e. in control of lethal machine, not full of grog or drugs and driving according to the conditions and the within the legal limits, you won't hit anything and have a 99.9% chance of getting home in one piece. Its like the gun argument, cars do not kill people, drivers kill people.

Bill

[Louwai]

Now that's one that I have to comment on.

I ride a 2004 model Suzuki. My bike, as received from the manufacturer, DOES NOT HAVE A HEAD LIGHT SWITCH.
I physically can NOT turn off the head light. Whenever the ignition is on, so is the head light.
This has mainly come about because it is recognised world wide that motorbikes with the headlight on at all times are more easily seen & less likely to be hit by a car.
So I'm asking that you don't blame us "damn motorccle riders".

In Vic we (motorcyclists) are already charged an extra $50 on our rego for "Motorcycle awareness education". This is actually to teach CAR drivers to be more aware of motorcycles, but WE are charged for it in our rego.

Motorcycle headlights being on during the day was introduced many years ago when the Gov made it mandatory / law that all motorcycles MUST have the headlight on at all times. I believe this law was repreived a few years ago, but as noted above, I (& many thousands of riders) can not turn their light off.

The incedence of motorcycle - car accidents was reduced dramatically after bikes were required to have the headlight on.