U.S. behind the times, but claiming the prize.

[ballaratdragons]

Why is it that the U.S. manufactures certain things and claim to be the 1st, and the inventor of it, when some of those particular items are already in use in other countries???

Latest example: On FoxNews they had a story where U.S. has now taken the idea of the Golf Cart and put it into cars. They claim to be the first maker of Electric Cars!!!!

Their cars needs a 6 hour overnight charge to run for 40 miles (about 65k's) and then they are flat! They also have a 1 Gallon tank of petrol to run a 1 litre motor in case your battery goes flat before you reach your 40 mile destination!!!!!

They say that the 'Electric car' will be ready for sale in 2010 (Chrysler I think), with Ford chasing them and also about to release an Electric Car in 2010.

Now, we all know that electric cars have been around since the 1950's. The Prius has been very popular around the world (and is more efficient than the U.S. one), the English have been using electric cars and Milk Vans successfully for over 20 years!!!

Why then, do the U.S. claim to have just now invented the Electric car????
It doesn't contain any 'new' technology either. Just a battery D.C. motor and a 1 litre engine. :shrug:

[Omaroo]

Sorry Ken - but maybe you just heard all of that wrong? The US have never claimed to have invented the electric car - it was a Scot that did that - and in 1840, not 1950. What they are now claiming is that they have a manufacturing process that will make it cheap enough to provide a totally-electrically-driven car - that will also have petrol as backup - the "VW" of the modern age as it were.

The "hybrids" that the Japanese have put into production will one day be criticised so heavily - for the total cost of production in terms of energy, as well as for the cost of disposal. They do not run on electricity alone, but require the electric and petrol engines to cut-in-and-out as they go - alternating drive power. Also - don't ever be involved in a prang with a Prius - run! They are so incredibly toxic they will be the target of the bloody greenies soon enough - even though they are best buddies now.

Why is everyone so critical of the USA these days? Jeez! They've done just about everything else better, bigger and earlier than just about everyone. :shrug:

[ballaratdragons]

I'm not. But on the FoxNews story they claim to have 'invented' the electric car. Not a cheaper manufacturing method. It is probably FoxNews to blame for the way it was worded.

If they had said that (cheaper manufacturing method), I would be happy to hear it, but they didn't.


Invented in 1840, but popular since the 1950's. Geez, ya gotta watch what ya say round here!!!!

[Omaroo]

Fox - I have it and I really have to say that the way Discovery, History and NatGeo present material borders on hype. I gotta say I can't stand their presentation style - which is, I'm afraid, tainted by American TV's idea of style. Even my American wife cringes every time she hears some boof-head going on about a "mega-machine" or whatnot.

I'm going to blame Fox, not America too.

FYI - whilst a Scot invented the concept of an electric-powered vehicle (a crude carriage), it was an American, Thomas Davenport, who is credited with building the first practical electric vehicle -- a small locomotive - in 1835!

Anyways - interesting, huh! :)

[Calin]

If the US news story claims they are the first in the world to invent the electric car, then well technically they are correct !! All you simply need to do is re-define what the world is ... in the US they are the world !!, the rest of us are aliens. :lol:

I agree to some degree with Amaroo that they've [US] done just about everything else better, bigger and earlier than just about everyone ...

Better weapons, bigger wars and pollution and earlier every year ...

But hey I'm not biased :rofl:

No harm in poking a bit of fun at the US, they've been poking fun at us for decades and vice versa .... but we all just good mates

[ballaratdragons]

Please don't make this into a 'Lets bash America' thread.
Probably my fault for the way I worded the the original post.

It is probably more to do with 'over-zealous' and bad reporting.

But we can turn it into a chat about the electric car.

6 hours on charge to get 40 miles!!!!!!!!!!! I thought technology was waayyy beyond that!

[Omaroo]

Maybe it's coming down to a price-point that they've achieved. An electric DC motor (or 4 for a car - one for each wheel) must chew several hundred amps when accelerating a family-sized vehicle to 100kmh. If you take a standard 100A/Hour wet cell battery, you'd only get around the block before it was stuffed. Put enough (like a dozen) of these full-sized car batteries in your boot and you'll probably get 40 miles, or 60km. You'd then need to charge them all for a few days to get the next trip out of them and they'd weigh half a ton.

Is 6 hours so bad? 60km total, or 30km return radius is plenty for a great many city dwellers to get to work and back. Probably no good in the country, but I dare say it wasn't designed for country miles at this stage. If you're at work for longer than 6 hours, then you'd charge it there - effectively doubling the distances and giving you a daily range of 120km.

For them to develop a battery that's small and light enough not to have to take a trailer to carry them behind you and still go the distance is pretty amazing really.

[ballaratdragons]

Yes Chris, probably aimed at Urban buyers. Work and back, then onto the charger each night. :thumbsup:

Or country folk, may make the General Store and back, then onto the windmill each night :lol:

[CoombellKid]

A far as they're concerned if they buy the patent, they invented it.

When I was in Canada a few years ago I met up with a mate of mine who
was working with a band touring through the US and Canada. We were
down at a pub and one of his US working buddies claim how he had toured
the world with different acts, When I asked where he had been he rattled
off a bunch of US cities... I still giggle about that.

btw, 6 hours on charge to get 40 miles.... hmmmm barely make my local
corner store lol

regards,CS

[Glenhuon]

I'm pretty bad at slagging off on Americans at times, but must admit the vast majority I've met in real life and on the net have been very nice people. What really sticks in my craw is the fact that a lot of the things the US has produced were actually conceived by people in other nations but their Government/Business sector were too thick to see the potential. The jet engine and hovercraft are a couple that come to mind. If there's an efficient electric vehicle being developed in the US, all I can say is Good On Yer Guys.

[dugnsuz]

Fox News is THE problem with mainstream American media.
A biased right wing, republican agenda underpins its whole editorial focus.
"Fair and balanced" indeed!
Thanks Rupert...
Rant Rant Rant!!!!

[Glenhuon]

[quote=CoombellKid;285498]A far as they're concerned if they buy the patent, they invented it.

When I was in Canada a few years ago I met up with a mate of mine who
was working with a band touring through the US and Canada. We were
down at a pub and one of his US working buddies claim how he had toured
the world with different acts, When I asked where he had been he rattled
off a bunch of US cities... I still giggle about that.

Yep, I've noticed that too. Sometimes the lack of knowledge of what exists outside the USA leaves me shaking my head :lol:

[Glenhuon]

Not just Fox mate. I have a look on the Telegraph site most days and all the "Headlines" seem to be about entertainment bimbos and what they been up too lately. "Lifestyles of the rich and stupid" as John Laws described it. Have to go digging to find some real news.

[dugnsuz]

[quote=Glenhuon;285502]

Sorry, but got to add my own...
Met a US merchant seaman in a New York bar (sounds like a dirty joke, but 'No'...read on). I said I was from Scotland - he said "Oh Yeah, that's just below Finland, kind up up from Germany right!?"
I hope he wasn't the navigator!!!:P
Doug

[Glenhuon]

[quote=dugnsuz;285504]
:rofl::rofl::rofl:

[Tannehill]

Hokay, Ken, my friend, I'll take up your gauntlet...gotta stretch my nationalist muscles after a fun year here in Oz, as I prepare to return to the land of extremes. (In North Florida where I lived for a year, the large roadsigns just south of Gainesville Florida alternated between saying "Nude Girls Next Exit" and "Jesus Saves"...I kept waiting for the follow-on sign declaring that "Jesus Saves Nude Girls Next Exit" but it never appeared.)

Um, what's the link. I couldn't find the source article. I need the facts so I can distort them in my reply....

Oh, and by the way, its YOUR countryman (Rupert) who drives all this, as said....

Scott AKA Stranger in a Strange Land....

PS see you Friday for some non-demoninational photon absorbing....

[CoombellKid]

Fox and the Telegraph are own by the same bloke. Who happens
to be Australian married to a chick who use to work in the Chinese
secret police lol....

Poor BD this is getting right off topic, sorry mate

regards,CS

[CoombellKid]

That's a classic :lol::lol::lol:

regards,CS

[GrahamL]

phew scott :P..from somone who regularly misses exits when in the city .
I'd never hear the end of it if I took that on.

as for rupert you guys can have him :thumbsup:.. we regularly discard /embrace
well known personalities at will wether they are /were aussies or not .hope your stay was a memorable one :)

[Outbackmanyep]

Don't forget Channel 10.......:whistle:

[ballaratdragons]

Yep, electric cars :thumbsup:

:lol:

[Nevyn]

Electric cars are cool :thumbsup:
It's all about the Amps. This was one episode of Dateline I couldn't forget!
Any how enjoy. part3 of 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMvukaQxdEY&feature=related

[Dennis]

As a school boy, I used to deliver milk at weekends and in our school holidays from an electric milk van. It could do 30mph on the straight with a full load and I used to do milk rounds of between 3 and 6 hours, even in the snow.

The Co-op Dairy in my home town had a fleet of these things. They fair rattled along when full of empties at the end of a milk round. Down hill I think we once got up to a scary 40 mph!

That was back in 1968, some 40 years ago! I used my wages to purchase my first telescope, a 60mm refractor.

Cheers

Dennis

[astroron]

I can beat you Dennis, I remember the steam driven trucks;):lol::lol::lol:

[Dennis]

Yeah, that's not bad Ron – but I remember the days before wheels were invented! :lol::lol::lol:

Cheers

Dennis

[ballaratdragons]

Yeah? Well back when my Dad invented the wheel . . . . :lol:

[JethroB76]

Ahh...so your Dad is American then Ken? :lol: :lol:

[CoombellKid]

They didn't invent the wheel silly, they just made it round. Boy those
old square wheels were hell bumpy. Must of made milk delivery a real
choir at 30-40mph :whistle:

regards,CS

[AJames]

In my opinion, the only thing the Americans have really contributed to the world is imitation - and they're damn good at it!
Individually, they are probably the nicest people on earth. Place a number of them together, and they turn into a multi-headed egocentric monsters in there biassed view of the whole Universe which they someday like to own.
As for electric vehicles for transportation (or veer-hick-le, as the Yanks say)
being US inventions,,, I doubt it...
Already I already have two electric vehicles that I have used everyday for almost ten years, and I charge them every night!! One does 27 kilometres on one charge ('bout 18 km will lots of hills) and moves at around 7.8 kph on a good day!! The electronics and design were made in Australia.
Interestingly, the manual weelchair was invented by a Spanish man in the lmid-1570's to help Phillip II of Spain to get around. The first commonplace manual wheelchair was invented and patented in England in 1869.
The first true electric driven "vehicle" (without a power point) electric scooter was invented in 1924 by the Scotsman Thomas Carruthers - and probably can be considered the first of such devices. The electric wheelchair was invented much later by a Canadian, George J. Klein in the 1952 for quadriplegics. This was soon available in Australia in 1958 - fifty years ago. However, the Americans have since now claimed both of these inventions together - and even a new one!
To boost their claims, the American issued a US Patent No. 5878829 in March 1999, which they call the "Manual Electric Wheelchair" - which means you can have to have an electric wheelchair and you can power it manually yourself! But the question is; if you need an electric wheelchair, then you would assume one couldn't use a manual wheelchair. Hence, how can a disabled person use an electric chair manually? Dumb eh?
1.5 million Americans own or use wheelchairs, however they certainly didn't invent them!

COMMENT: However, what I really can't stand is the obscene highjacking, collectivisation and total ownership of democracy (and all its forms), made more abhorrent as everyone else knows Greeks actually invented it more then 2500 years ago !

I think it was the once Democrat, now passionate Republican, Condoleezza (Condy aka George W) Rice who recently said "democracy begins at home", then champions her style of "transformational diplomacy" - essentially educating the rest of the world to truth, justice and the American way - and in the process absorbing their culture and inventiveness.

Perhaps the delusion of the views of America can be best summed up well by Condi, who said on 9th July, 2007. (See http://www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2007/87996.htm
"The eyes of the world have always turned to the Americas, and now they turn to us again. Today, as in centuries past, we embody not only the dreams of our citizens, but also the dreams of people across the globe... They embody the dreams of impatient patriots who think that if democratic development can work for us, then it can work for them - who believe that the promise of liberty and opportunity is a universal desire, and a universal vision - open to every person, in every land, at every time. We in the Americas are thus involved in an enterprise that is far larger than ourselves and larger than our region. And I am confident that, secure in our values, and knowing our future, that we will be successful."

She sums up the American adoption of others by blatantly stating;.

"Power matters. But there can be no absence of moral content in American foreign policy, and furthermore, the American people wouldn't accept such an absence. Europeans giggle at this and say we're naive and so on, but we're not Europeans, we're Americans - and we have different principles."

Indeed! Pity such views also seem to extend to control anyone else with any originality and ownership!

Let's see... Who invented the sheep lined Ugg boot for example?
America must have, because they own the generic name!

As one unnamed American once said when leering lasciviously over Australia; "I love Austria!!... How much do you want for it!!" :scared:

[Bobj]

Why is everyone so critical of the USA these days? Jeez! They've done just about everything else better, bigger and earlier than just about everyone. http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/../vbiis/images/smilies/shrugging.gif _
About 40 years ago, the cattle trough at Derby, W.A. was credited with being the longest in the world. The boss of King Ranch, Texas heard about it and sent a bloke over to measure it. After the bloke measured up, and got back to King Ranch, they set about and extendend theirs to be the longest...

I often wonder how they (Texans) will live this one down...

[Starkler]

Is all this symptomatic of an Australian national inferiority complex?
http://www.satirewire.com/news/jan02/australia.shtml

[Omaroo]

:rofl:Inferiority complex? What inferiority complex?

[Starkler]

A couple of other gems from the same site :rofl:

http://www.satirewire.com/news/jan02/geography.shtml
http://www.satirewire.com/news/0010/international.shtml

[Outbackmanyep]

NSW is bigger than TEXAS!
Lets see them enlarge that one! :lol:

[AJames]

Yesterday, I had an interesting coincidental conversation with two seemingly decent Americans in there mid-30's who were on a holiday from the U.S. This ended up an interesting encounter.
After writing in this thread on the 9th, and especially after Starkler's comment; "Is all this symptomatic of an Australian national inferiority complex?", I asked them about their opinion about how Americans are viewed by others.
They said they had a few encounters some hostility in Australia (and elsewhere), and much of this seemed to be about their presumed "attitudes". I said that most individual Americans that I have meet were usually very open and decent people, however, I felt that in groups most seemed to awful biased and selfish - with an unrealistic air of superiority.
They then said that they had noticed this as well, and honestly thought Australians seemed pretty much tolerant of everyone they meet. However one point really struck me, when they said much of the brash attitudes were really towards the outwards display of American patriotism. They thought that when there is a small group of Americans, there was a sort of competition among them as to who was truly the most patriotic. (inbreed, probably from birth.) It was almost like they were deliberately doing it just to get attention by wanting to display various American attitudes and beliefs on others, which they conceded might be construed as arrogant and plainly very intimidating. I said that the American flag waved in your face and the "hand on heart" posturing, seemed only just reinforce this view - and was likely the main cause of the discontent. They then said they had never thought of it in this way and stated that their upbringing made out it was "their duty" to do so.
They also commented that most Australians were not like this. Here "aussies" displayed their patriotism this as a "b itchfest" - which they noticed seemed more hostile - especially towards New Zealanders. (though New Zealanders seemed to show the same style towards Australians). [Rugby Union I instantly thought!]
Anyway, I did not press the matter further, and after a general brief chat I moved to my own business of the day. I left with the feeling that these individuals were both just ordinary folk, and was impressed with their openness.
Question: Is the attitudes of Americans just merely posturing on their own behalf?

Comment : FWIW, why is the word "b itch" censored here with "*****"? Whilst its use of this word as a noun might be construed as vulgar, derogatory and offensive, especially towards women, but surely the verb usage is perfectly acceptable. Ie. "(s)he b itched about everything".
This is now like the now common problem of censorship of the "naked eye", where the lewd word "naked" is considered offensive (and is often probably deemed as an inappropriate R-rated porn site with sexual content.) These days you have to write "naked eye" instead as "naked-eye" just to avoid being censored on the Web! (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naked_eye on its astronomical use.) Another is the word "sex" - which I am allowed to say in most sites - including this one! This word especially is banned in Chinese sites, along with words or phrases like "democracy", "freedom", "demonstration" and "free speech" will have a website blacklisted!!

[xelasnave]

As you all known I live by..."if you can't say anything good about someone then say nothing":D
.....but...
the USA is a large economy and as such has many economic, religious and social "special vested interest groups" and each invest generous resources in building nests in which they lay their eggs...

From within their nests little of the rest of the chook yard may be apparent so views are based on their position in the nest... so much of this approach can be related to scientific theory pointing out that observation is relevant only to the observer making the observation:eyepop: and that the same event will appear different to an observer placed elsewhere observing the same event...:whistle:

So when observing an observer we must realise that his observation may be very different to our own and that the comments made from within the nest may not be a fair account of the rest of the chook yard.

However back to the point which is if you can not say something good then remain silent... I say this ....if getting a change in direction for their standard approach to personal transport can be made by proclaiming they are the first ( or the last with an better version) then let them go... we all see their spin as coming from the "USA" whereas spin comes from individual special vested interest groups within the USA...no doubt in this case the spin comes from those working on the new electric car...thank the boys in marketing rather than condem the nation:)

BUt keep a careful eye on the current Military spin as that roster thinks he is looking after all the chook yard and the ones next door as well:lol::lol::lol:.

First or not first any steps towards an efficeint usable alternative vehicle to the V8 should be applauded:thumbsup:...good on you USA:thumbsup:

alex:):):)

[xelasnave]

I dont know why folk think we feel an inferiority complex that is their problem not ours... personally I dont think we are superiour to other nations its just that we seem happier than others..not as bound by traditions and customs that date back to the year dot.... and being happy, one would think, is the goal on top of any humans list...
alex

[AJames]

Alex,

Sadly, I think some would say that the top of the list would be being filthy rich with lots of money. Then using the moo-la to really make you happy...

Andrew

Here a better one for you Alex...

"Could a government dare to set out with happiness as its goal? Now that there are accepted scientific proofs, it would be easy to audit the progress of national happiness annually, just as we monitor money and GDP. "

(Is this idea another example of Ruddism??)

[AJames]

Alex, this quote is better I think....

"Happiness in this world, when it comes, comes incidentally. Make it the object of pursuit, and it leads us a wild-goose chase, and is never attained. Follow some other object, and very possibly we may find that we have caught happiness without dreaming of it."

Nathaniel Hawthorne

[xelasnave]

Well maybe it is only me who thinks happiness is the prime goal..iot is mine and so I guess I feel it should be the goal of others as well.. I have been reasonably rich, I have been in places where I had some power, I have been in places where poverty is normal and there are always people who are never happy..even the money does not make them happy...everything changed for me..when I was only interested in the dollar power etc tha day I handed to a client a check which by todays standards represented a deal where he made many years income..in a matter of months...what did he say..lets celebrate??? no no no...all he could say to me was "Oh Alex this is such a large amount of money what am I going to do..will you help me invest it wisely?".... well I saw a man who was somewhat burdened by his good fortune and resolved that money was not the key ...hapiness is a decipline really and it starts every day by counting your blessings..do that and I bet you will always be happy.. rich or poor.. good health or dieing..you will always be happy...I have so many blessings I get distracted before I can reciet them all but by them I meet the day and all it has for me.
alex

[xelasnave]

Sorry I was in a rush so the spelling etc is poor but I have to go now and let you work it out... be happy about that as well
alex

[johnno]

I turn 59 this month,

and have been an Amateur radio operator for nearly half that time,

I have spoken via voice,and Morse code,to many people from Many Different countries around the world.

The ONLY people,I have ever struck, who spruke their Individual age,and Achievements,

Are......Guess Who?

................I dont get on air much these days.

[Alchemy]

intriuging thread, a quick thought as all countries have their faults ..ours included

Who would you rather ruled the world

1.the anglo/american democracy
2. the Soviet socialist movement
3. The chineese communist party
4. The other mob that have their origins in the middle east.

which of them would allow you to live as you do now ?

[xelasnave]

Democracy is said to be the worst form of Government however it can be corrupted relatively less than the others and wins by default.

We at least can have a grizzle with little fear of being carried away to the Gulag but freedom is usually limited to the norm of our society which is reasonable.

I saw the car which was the object of this thread and I see it as very positive as it may well be the thin edge of the wedge as it were... the only way that electric cars can take off is via the market and looking at it is does not seem too unusual to be shunned.

And how folk can generalise with a nation so large as the USA is beyond me.. we will remember the braggers no doubt but they are not the only ones in the USA..

alex

[AJames]

Alchemy and Xelasnave, *

Probably good points, (I'm a true democrat at heart) but I think actually think the debate here is not really about the best political system, but is more about the currently "imposed" superior moral and political attitudes that the Americans people have seem to have adopted towards us and the rest of the world.
I do think Americans have in the past contributed much to the modern world - something any intelligent person can't deny. Since the 1950's, they have contributed much to the world technology and have lead us on the path of great prosperity and opulence (as said elsewhre in this thread.) Ie. From Australia's point of view they certainly saved us from occupation by the Japanese during the WWII, etc.. In the 'war on terror' they have rightly or wrongly stated they will stand against the darkness, just in case civilisation falters on the edge, to fall into the hands of fanaticism. In all, I agree, we should be grateful for this, and for this reason Australia has strong ties to the U.S.
However, for this significant contribution, we bear a great cost - to the extent, America is really becoming quite isolated and perceived as indifferent to the rest of the non-American world.
The issues here are far too in-depth to really cover thoroughly, but IMO the whole American culture is designed to be deliberately invasive, preferring to indoctrinate of others with their economy, language, entertainment (movies and television), philosophy, politics, business savvy though exploitation by the rich, etc. Even our youngsters are now dressing and speaking like them! They seem as a whole hell-bent to determine the pursuit, not of happiness, but of flexing their considerable political and economic clout over other countries.
Now you, and probablyeven I, may agree or disagree with this kind of generalisations and radical views, but America seems not the only country to now adopting these similar almost xenophobic attitudes.
To answer Alchemy's tout, I myself do think Australia, China, the (ex) Soviets, and the Islamic States (as per your list) also have also started to adopted these views as the undercurrent attitudes of their own society's - becoming unsafe and untrustworthy communities, who as a whole of more selfish, greedy self-absorbed individuals.
I think counties like American and Australia need some real democratic differences to keep the global democracy's and our freedoms fresh, strong and independent.
By not questioning or challenging change in our society, the system just becomes a complacent cul de sac - and it can still suddenly die like the Roman Empire - consumed from the inside by individuals who have nothing too say nor nothing too strive for.

Now stepping of the Soapbox (before I fall off)... :)
Andrew


* Avatars together that do sound splendid Greek or Roman gods, I think!