new scope for Xmas any advice welcome

[Taffy]

Hello to you all,
i am brand new hear and to be honest brand new to astrology. I have always longed to get into star and planet gazing since i first looked up and saw that wonderful mass of glittering objects.

Santa has finally granted my wishes this year (i have been a very good lad) and i now have skywatcher sw680. set up in my lounge room. The clouds are still outside and looks like they will be there for another week.

This may be a good thing as i have read the manual 50 times and now find myself here trying to ease the frustration of not being able to use the scope.

I would really appreciate any advice on what i should learn first and any tips on this scope.
In the meantime i will continue to pray for a hole in the clouds.

happy star gazing
Taf

[erick]

Hi Taf

Before everyone jumps on you :D, quick, edit your post and change "astrology" to "astronomy"! :)

I'll post a few more thoughts soon.

Eric

[erick]

Taf

If you follow the manual you won't go wrong. I don't know about the Skywatcher manuals, but most give all the information needed to get the scope functioning and tips on viewing and targets.

For what to look at now, get a copy of the latest Australian Sky & Telescope from the newsagent and look at the maps and articles there.

Here is a source of a free map to download. You want the Southern Hemisphere one, obviously:-

http://skymaps.com/downloads.html

A redlight torch, a planisphere, a comfortable stool to sit on while observing, perhaps some planetarium software on a laptop - you'll have all you need.

Always align the finderscope and start with the lower power eyepiece (the biggest focal length).

And, you'll need to keep your scope in collimation. Your manual will guide you, but you may wish to buy a collimation tool to help.

Happy viewing!
Eric

[GeoffW1]

Hi,

This is how I started, with a 200mm dob, and I would not claim I have progressed far since:lol:.

However, here are some of the things I have found on the way:

- Learn to collimate the thing well (dobs need this), it will also make the most of light polluted skies if you suffer those. This is a big debate, but I like a Barlowed laser for this.

- learn your constellations for the season, and how to star hop from one to the other to get to the object you want. This is a basic skill until you buy an Argo Navis.

- a right-angled finderscope or a Telrad (or similar) is easier on the neck

- the cheaper EPs (eg Bintel Plossls) are very good value from about 15-20mm and up, but for higher powers, spend some more money and get the next level of quality. What that is, also forms a tremendous debate here, but I like Baader Hyperions. These are modular, with effectively a Barlow lens on them which you can unscrew to get a low-power eyepiece (but of lower quality too) . Each to his own.

- if your Dob has any degree of stiction in either alt or az motion, you will need to work on that. There is a tremendous amount here on that subject, but any EP below 8mm will be difficult to use unless you attain smooth motion.

- your best mates in astro pursuits are right here on IIS. I learned everything here (some would say imperfectly indeed :doh:) and you can find out anything here .

Cheers

[iceman]

Hi Taf and :welcome: to IceInSpace!

Is your scope mounted on a dob base or an EQ mount?

Where abouts in Australia are you?

[Taffy]

thanks for the feedback so far.
i read the post after posting it (the astrology thing) and thought to myself hmmm i hope these guys have a good amount of patience.
I just finished trying to look at some stars and what i think was a planet.
not sure as the clouds keep moving over head and i have about 15 secs of viewing then a long wait for a gap.
desperate i know but hey i am keen.
I need to get the targeting scope in alignment with the main and have not been able to do this yet.
Looks like i need to get a collimation tool as well. I am still not sure exactly what they do.
I can see myself tomorrow night standing outside with the blower vac trying to move the clouds.
in the meantime i will keep reading up on the collimation thing and also try and align the finderscope.
cheers for all the help so far feel free to keep it coming.:thumbsup:

[PCH]

Hi Taff,

try this link for what collimation means and how to do it.

http://www.andysshotglass.com/Collimating.html

Cheers,:thumbsup:

[ballaratdragons]

G'day Taf,

Hmmmmm, I was reading the above posts and tried to think how it all sounds to a new Astrologer . . . oops! I mean Astronomer :lol:

Below is some of the Lingo used above, translated for you (we often forget what it's like to be new at this and we talk our own talk)

lower power eyepiece (the biggest focal length) - There are numbers on the Eyepieces. The smaller the number, the more it magnifies.

Collimation - Aligning all the mirrors so they give a true image without distortion. A collimator, or Collimation Tool is used for this.

Barlowed laser - Not sure on this one myself! But it sounds like a Laser Collimator with a Barlow attached :shrug:

until you buy an 'Argo Navis' - 'Argo Navis' is an expensive device which assists in hand pointing the telescope to objects.

a right-angled finderscope or a Telrad - The finderscope is the small scope used to line up objects to be seen in the Main scope. The rght-angle version has the Eyepiece sticking out sideways to make it easier to look into. A Telrad is a device which can be attached to the main scope and you look into it and it has red circles like a bullseye to centre objects. Bit like a Finderscope with red rings.

the cheaper EPs - EP's being 'eyepieces'. Cheaper ones can be quite dissappointing, but the ones usually supplied with Dobs are pretty good to get started.

(eg Bintel Plossls) - Bintel being the shop 'Bintel', and Plossl being the style of eyepiece.

Baader Hyperions - another style of eyepiece made by Baader.

a Barlow lens - A Barlow is used for increasing magnification of an eyepiece (x2, x3, x4 etc)

stiction - where a mount turns smoothly or not. Stiction is how much it sticks or jerks when trying to get smooth motion.

in either alt or az motion - alt = up & down movement, az = side to side movement.

a dob base or an EQ mount - 'dob base' being a Dobsonian base. A box arrangement to which the telescope sits in and can move in alt & az. EQ mount is a mount where the telescope moves in curving motions and has counterweights sticking out the opposite side to the telescope to balance it.

I have to say that I disagree with Geoffs advice at this point in time. You don't need to buy better eyepieces for quite a while. Learn with what you have. The EP's supplied these days are usually fairly good to start out with. You definately don't need an Argo Navis! (apologies to Gary Kopff) You need to learn the sky and how to Star-hop to objects. An Argo-Navis is something you may decide on in a year or two if you think you may need it.

Take your time, try find a local Astronomy Club or Society and go meet them. Use what you already have and in time you will discover what improvements you may need or accessories you may want.

Note: I am, in no way, putting down 'Argo Navis' (which is a fantastic Aussie Product) or better quality EP's. I just don't think newbies need be concerned with all the extras at the outset of thier new hobby.

[erick]

Hi Taf

Re the finderscope. You may find it easiest to align it during the daytime by using a terrestrial object. They have the benefit of not moving relative to your scope, unlike stars. They have the disadvantage of not being as far away as the Moon/planets/stars!

But if you can see a distant TV antenna, mountain top etc from your viewing location, align your finderscope using this. Using a lower power eyepiece, get an object centred in the field of view. (yes, I know it's upside down - you get used to it!). Then adjust the two screws on the finderscope until the same object is under the crosshairs. You could try to go to a higher power eyepiece and repeat the exercise, if you want to align the finderscope more accurately. However, you would usually use the lowest power eyepiece when locating an object. The order being - find the object in the finderscope (yes, it's upside down and back to front! Did I say you'd get used to it!!), then use the lowest power eyepeice in the scope to centre the object. Then change eyepieces to increase the magnification as required.

Worth noting is that many beginners try to use a magnification that is too high. Many objects are best viewed with a lower power eyepiece and wide field of view.

WARNING - if the sun is still up, don't point the scope in its direction. Sunlight concentrated by the finderscope or telescope mirror will damage your eye.

Edit - just thought of something else - is your finderscope focussed for your eye? Are the stars fairly sharp pinpoints of light when looking through it (you can take it off the scope and just point it at the sky to check. It should come factory-focussed, but if you use glasses etc. it might be a bit out of focus for your eye. The focus is adjustable - I think the manual will describe how - otherwise ask here.

[Taffy]

WOW!
finally got to see some stars tonight and a planet. Well it looked like the moon a long long long way away.
Thanks for the definitions on all the things. It is a big help to have it explained. The finderscope is working out well now i have used the moon planet thing to aim at. The moon at the moment is coming up really late. I am surrounded by trees and have to wait for it to pass rigt above before being able to view it. I will be hunting down some places that i can go to get some horizon to horizon views from. So far from reading it seems that first thing in the morning 2-3am sounds like the best time to view but then again it depends on what you want to look at and where in the sky it will be at any given time.
Here are a few blonde questions for you all :P;
1. can you view the moon in the day time and what is it like.
2. i have two eye pieces a 25mm super plossl and a 10mm. what can you expect to see with these pieces (craters on moon? rings around saturn?etc.)
3. I also have a 2" eyepiece adapter. what is this used for and why etc.
4. if i want to go deeper or have things appear larger in more detail what would you buy first to do this with my scope?
5. the cap on top of the scope has a removable 2" cap on it. What does this do?
6. in my manual it mentions making a collimation tool out of a film canister. Anyone tried this and how well does it work.
7. has anyone seen any little green men up there yet.:scared:
8. does the wind have a bad effect on the viewing.

I live in QLD Logan.

ok back to the scope.
Taf :hi:

[Dujon]

G'day, Taffy. It sounds like you're having fun.

1) You most certainly can view the Moon during daylight hours (assuming, of course, that it's up there somewhere and not illuminating Europe). There will be two problems associated with such an exercise: firstly, you will lose contrast and the image will - relative to night viewing - appear washed out; secondly, atmospheric turbulence is usually more prevalent during the day which will/can result in a view similar to trying to look at the Moon through moving water.

If you decide to try it then be extremely careful. Accidentally allowing the Sun to appear at the end of the tube can result in almost instant blindness should you have your eye glued to the eyepiece at the time. Even if you are remote from the 'scope if this happens (for instance, leaving it unattended and the Sun creeping into the field of view) can result in damage to the telescope - particularly the eyepiece.

2) Lots and lots. You will certainly be able to see the two you mentioned. Keep in mind that a lower value of focal length of an eyepiece gives greater 'magnification' but also means that less light hits your retina. This means that low surface brightness objects (e.g. some galaxies) are better viewed using less magnification than they are with high magnification.

3) The adapter is simply a method of using an eyepiece with a 1½" barrel in a focuser designed for a 2" barrel. The differences between the two types I will leave to someone else to explain.

4) It depends on what you mean by 'deeper'. Magnification (as already mentioned) simply means a lower focal length eyepiece. Also mentioned is the trade-off between magnification and light received. Because of this see-saw of light versus image size the detail you can see with a particular eyepiece (regardless of quality of the latter) will vary with the object you are viewing.

5) These aperture reducers are often used when the object you are viewing (e.g. the Sun) are overwhelmingly bright. I am not an astronomical imager, but I believe that many who are use this facility on brighter objects to reduce atmospheric affects on their images and also to eliminate the 'spikes' which often appear around brighter objects within an image. The spikes are caused by the 'spider' which supports the secondary mirror in some telescope designs. The reduced aperture can also be used to house a 'sun filter' by those who wish to view or image the Sun.

6) Yes you can and yes it works. I haven't used the system so I cannot say much beyond that.

7) Many times. Of course it could have been the crook wine I was drinking.

8) Yes. Wind produces turbulence. Turbulence can produce bad seeing. See also 'Jet Stream'.

9) You live in Queensland? Well, I suppose someone has to. :(


I'll lay you odds on that someone will correct me or, hopefully, expand on my comments.


Cheers

[Ric]

Welcome to IIS Taffy, there a lot of good advice posted here.

My advice is to just enjoy all the wonderful sights that are on offer up there and there is plenty of them.

Cheers

[joshman]

hey hey taffy, welcome to ISS, and good to see another brisbane-ite on the forums :D

my advice (being a fairly newbie myself) is to stick with the equipment you've got already, learn howto use it, learn how to take care of it, learn what it can and can't show you, then down the track you'll have a better idea of what you need. however, that being said, the first two items i would recommend would be a collimator and a barlow. the collimator for obvious reasons. the barlow (depending on it's magnification) will give you more out of your eyepieces. for instance, i have a 20mm and a 12.5mm, with a 2x barlow, i also effectively have a 10mm and a 6.25mm eyepiece. so you can see that with the purchase of one item, you can double your eyepiece collection.

however the best piece of advice before you outlay any money on eyepiece's and tools, is to get along to some stargazing events with an astronomical society, or with some of our organised dark sky events, there should be another one coming up at the start of january (i hope), and have a play with other people's equipment, most (if not all) astronomers are more than happy to explain things to other astronomers, (that how i got started) also , don't be afraid to ask the stupid questions!!

also go grab stellarium from www.stellarium.org it's the best free planetarium software i've found to date!

[Taffy]

I have been looking on the web at various things and was wandering what you might suggest is a good barlow lens to get is 2x or 3x better.
Also where to buy?
looks like the scope does not need collimation yet but will soon as i have to move it around alot.
Hmm i can see myself spending a bit of money chasing the stars across the sky.
would like to also get an attachment to mount a digital camera, any suggestions on this.
cheers and have a great and safe new year.:thumbsup:
taf

[WadeH]

Hi Taffy and welcome to IIS.

Totally agree with othe comments so far. 1st two purchases would be a 2X barlow lens and a cheshire collimator, easier to use I find than a laser one.

Your lens so far give a magnification (assuming tube focal lenght of 1200mm)of
1) 25mm : 48X and
2) 10mm : 120X
with a 2X barlow you would get
1) 96X and
2) 240X
great deal for a small outlay!

One item that I have never seen talked about here are the Star Carts by Wil Tirion. Available fron most astronomical shops and Australian Geographic stores for about $25 I seem to remember. They show all sorts of goodies that will keep a learner busy for ages. I still have them on hand for when my computer battery dies. There are also similar charts for the phases of the moon from the same outlets and the same price.

You do realise that you have begun a long slow decline into the money pit we call a hobby.

Enjoy. :astron:

[GeoffW1]

Hi Taf,

BDragons has done a good job here translating my post, sorry if it was a bit mysterious, I was rushing too much.

I hasten to add that certainly I did not mean you should rush out and buy an Argo Navis now, it is worth about $950 all up for your scope and no, certainly there is lots to do before you think of one.

What I did mean was that you will almost inevitably consider the idea sometime ahead, almost everyone seems to!

As for better eyepieces, I would not buy your first ones new, have a look at the large volume of eyepieces traded here on IIS. But yes, do that when you feel ready.

Cheers

[dannat]

In case someone hasn't already showed you the magnification soembody gave for the ep's you have and the barlow are calculated as follows
focal length of scope(mm) /(divided by) the measurement on the ep (ie 25mm). yours i think is 1200/25 = 48 X magnifcation. The ep's don't really magnify though even though we say the mag, it's all up the scope's light gathering power. general rule is you can go as high as 50X magnifcation for each inch of aperture(size of mirror). from memory your cope is 200mm in diameter or 8 inches, s in theory you could go to 400 - but don't expect to look any good at that magnification. if you got a 2X barlow that would give you 240X as previously stated which is probably enough. In bris I would try bintel (web bintel.com.au) {for either their own brand (cheaper) or TV barlow} or frontier optics(frontieroptics.com.au). the guy at frontier gives good advice and has has quality but reasonably priced goods. he has the UO range in barlows. hope this helps. i would probably stick with the ep's you have till you can look through some others. the 2" ep you asked about are more costly(but usually preferred), but the wider area of view and eye relief (how close your eye is to the ep) can help eye glass wearer's. they are expensive though when you are starting out. also they are not really for planet views, ie at higher magnification.

[Taffy]

thanks for all the feedback guys. It is truly great to have a hobbie where there is so much good advice given so freely.
I rang a life long friend of mine who has been into astronomy for years and he has been awesome in helping out. He showed me his massive new scope and the mouth watered. It is a definate money pit. But i can think of alot worse to spend your money on. What a wonderful world we are now able to be apart of. One day i can see myself looking down the scope and looking at someone or thing looking back. The technology is really flying and becoming so affordable.
I have been reading up on so much that my head might just explode and cause the next big bang.
Anyway the rain is still falling outside so i am off to continue the expanding of my mental universe.
cheers all
Taffy:)

[coldspace]

Hi Taffy,

Glad you phoned me up so I can put you on the right track. Keep reading those books I lent you and when you have done come over and get more. The more you get into it the more you will love this hobby or should I say Obssesion. Call me soon when the weather clears and we will do some observing. Next SAS meeting is in Feb so come along with me and meet some like minded people. Glad you like my new scope and when I get the colour video camera you and me will get down to some really deep stuff;).

Matt.

[Roof]

:help:Can i just ask a question about that.....On the bottom of the chart it says "UT+11hrs" When i look at the times in the monthly chart do i have to add 11hrs to that or can i take the times as stated, I get confused when it reads 21h UT ( Morning Sky )......do i add 11h to 21h which then becomes 8 am.... Could someone help me out on this one.....Thanks all

Happy new Year.....I know we need the rain but it can stop for awhile now.