Japanese Mounts vs EQ6

[loopy]

G'Day,

I sent out an email to a guy named Sean at AstroOptics a while back asking about mounts for astrophotography. He mentioned that for a similar price to the EQ6, you can get a Japanese mount which is much sturdier, and much better quality. He said the US (ie Losmandy) and Japanese mounts are much better quality than the Chinese mounts.
Anyone want to comment on this?

Cheers,


Brad

[iceman]

What are the Japanese mounts? What are they called?

[mch62]

Ditto to Iceman the only mount that springs to mind are the Takahashi mounts and they are expensive.

Any idea on the name of the Japanese mounts?
What scope are putting on it?
What price did he quote for the EQ6 and the other?

The EQ6 has it's problems most of which can be resolved by a strip down and the monkey snot greece the Chinese use is replaced. Also a few bearing swaps can be done .
Periodic error is a hit and miss thing in that some people have low error and others have reported terrible errors.
Quality control appears to be an issue with the Chinese gear.
But generally it's a dame sturdy mount for the price.
There are plenty of after market add on controllers floating around the web which turn the mount into a first rate unit with the addition of upgrades to motors.

The price will depend on who is trying to rip you >>>>>I mean who is selling it to you.
Shop around wisely.
I don't think you will get a Losomdy or Tak cheaper than an EQ6?
Correct me if i am wrong . I am not up to date with the prices of that sizeing of mounts.


The EQ6 is rated to 25kgs and it tends to get better with more load on it but you do have to watch the length of that load. That is the limiting factor.
A more realistic load would be 18kgs.

If you look at my avatar you will see my 16kg 12.5"f6 scope on an EQ6 mount . A better pic is in the Equipment forum.
Mark

[beren]

Might be the old stalwarts GP or GP-dx mounts by vixen , the gp would be maybe the same price as the eq6 {1200?}but wouldnt have the same payload capacity i think {the CG5 mount is a clone of this} the GP_dx is a lot more expensive .The new Sphink mounts with goto are well over 2000 bucks.

[loopy]

Here's a copy of his latest message:

Brad,
The Vixen GP Phot Guider is $1049.
I'm surprised that you would consider the EQ6 alongside a Losmandy.
EQ mounts are all Chinese made.
Vixen (GP, GPD, SX, SXW and New Atlux EQ Mounts) is a Japanese manufacturer, as is Takahashi.
Losmandy is US.
There is still a big gap between the capabilities of a Chinese-made mount and a Japanese or US made one.
Regards,
Sean

[beren]

Brad theres also a big gap in prices to , just a idea for the price of a gp-dx, sphink ,losmandy you could get a LX75 refractor/schimt newtonian or celestron next series scope and mount and have resonable capability for AP or LX90/ nexstar 8. There also Celestrons cg5 goto mount for 1500 , mate that with a 80mm ed orion and you would have a nice AP package.

[mch62]

I don't think that any one is trying to compare the EQ6 to a Losmandy or Takahashi but if your on a budget need a large mount and are prepared to do some work on them for long exposure guiding than an EQ6 is the go.
As standard there good for visual and short exposures or web cams . A little work goes a long way on them .
Do some research on the web and look for modifications done on the EQ6 and comparisons done before and after.

There is heaps of after market gear out there for them as they are so popular.
Even with mods there still cheaper for same kg load rating.

Have you priced a Losmandy G-11! Similar load rate and yes, the Losmandy is a far better mount. It would want to be$$$$$
Be prepared to shop around as prices for Astronomical gear varies wildly in Australia from dealer to dealer.

Buy all means if you can afford a Takahashi or Losmandy with the same load handling equivalent of the EQ6 than you go for it.
But you will be paying a lot more than EQ6.

What scope are you mounting so we know if you even need the load handling of the EQ6????????A smaller US or Jap mount might be all you need.

Myself for the money you pay for a Losmandy or Takahshi you can build a pretty impressive mount.

Stay tuned to the forum as I will in the next few months be giving a run down on my home made Equatorial Fork mount with friction roller drive for my Newtonian .
Have just ordered the Mel Bartel Servo drive system.
I have calculated the rough price of the project and it will come out a lot cheaper than any Go-To commercial mount , and will handle over 100kgs.
I won't be getting rid of my EQ6 either , it's to good and is being used to keep my refractor off the ground now.
Mark

[beren]

Cool Mark look forward to that , is the friction roller drive like a belt drive setup ?

[mch62]

No , not exactly.
A friction drive is where a large disc is driven by direct pressure from a smaller roller disc, which is in turn drive by your steeper or servo motor.
There usually are no belts or gears involved in the final reduction but intermediate reductions to get the ratio low enough my have a small gearbox small worm and wheel set or belts.
The Idea behind the friction roller drive is firstly far less expense than large worm wheel sets, and secondly ultra low or zero periodic error due to the lack of a worm wheel.

A lot of research Telescopes use this system.
The Bartel system is designed to use with either a Dob with some easy modifications or and existing EQ mount with Mods or you start from scratch.
There are some things that have to be carefully designed so that you have enough pressure to stop slippage but not to much to whear out the discs.
My main discs are 600mm diameter and made from steel with a Stainless Steel rim .
On a Dob you can use just a plywood disc and the base plate with aluminum strapped to the outer edge for the motor to press against.
I had priced 2x 12" worm and wheels imported into Australia and it came to over $3000 Australian + drive electronics.
Mels system is $600US and than what ever it costs to make or modify your mount.
My quotes and estimates for the Fork, bearings, 3" solid RA shaft , mounting plates , 2 X 600mm discs ect ect and machining labour comes to around $750 + my time.

Feel free to ask any more questions and I will try to answer them.
I have included a pic of a friction or roller drive.
It uses a friction set up for the intermediate reduction as well.

Mark

[mch62]

a Dob modification

[loopy]

G'Day Mark,

My budgets not great, but I'm trying to build up in stages. What I don't want to do is buy something that won't be of much use later on... the plan at this stage, when I get back from my hols next year, I'll buy a 6" Dob and a few accessories to let me do some prime focus/afocal on the moon and planets. Next step, buy a decent mount (I'd prefer something like the Losmandy, but like you say, there's a huge price difference). With the small scope/good mount combo I can do basic DSO's. Next step would be to buy a bigger scope (10-14"), which coupled with the good mount could do some serious imaging.
But yeah, reality sets in and price will probably be an issue... I guess it all comes down to how much of a difference the mount makes, and whether you can learn to compensate for a cheaper mount?

Cheers,


Brad

[mch62]

I think an EQ6 will be overkill when it comes to a 6" Dob and maybe one of the smaller better quality Go-To's might be a better choice.
When you get a bigger scope you may keep the smaller set up as a Grab and Go for those times when you don't want to or can't lug a bigger scope around.
This is exactly what i have done.
I use to have a 6"refractor on it but that got traded in on the 80mm.
Won't be able to move the Newt soon.
Have a looky at my 80mm Ed grab and Go refractor on top of an EQ6 .
Like a pimple on an ant hill. :D
Does allow me the ability to piggy back extra cameras ect .
Still haven't tried it as of yet but that bright warm object in the sky has made an apperience so may be tonight

Mark

[beren]

Thanks for the info Mark , it will be great watching your progress, btw i didnt know that the counterweight shaft could move up and down on the eq6 ....cool.

Brad if your keen to maybe check out a few scopes there always coming along to one of the astronomical societies events , AGWA or ASWA . I think AWGA has viewing nights up bullsbrook way near the air base so that could be handy , check BTOW shops web site . BTW theres also the HEQ5 mount , smaller version of the eq6 and heres a idea..... but procede with caution ... check Astromart , people trade Meade lx55 optical tubes to keep the GOTO mount so possibly there could be a bargain.

[loopy]

Thanks guys :)

Mark - the mount I got I wanted to be able to use with both a small scope and then later on a large scope. That's why I was aiming at quality straight away. What I wanted to avoid was buying two complete set ups, although I'm sure that it probably has advantages I didn't think about...

Aragorn - I sent an email to Keith at BTOW and joined AGWA about a month ago. The observatory is just up the road (I live on the base) but I haven't been up there yet. The actual scope I'm planning to buy next year is the 6" Dob from Andrews COmmunications (www.andrewscomm.com.au). In speaking with the guy there (I think his name was Lee?), he mentioned that the scope is pretty much identical to the BinTel one, just a bit cheaper. You also get a fair bit through him for your money - the scope comes with 4 plossl's (a 9mm, a 25mm and 2 others of your choice), a moon filter, a 6x30 non-plastic finderscope and a pair of 10x25 bino's.

Cheers,


Brad

[mch62]

Brad Lee Andrews is pretty good to buy through.
He always likes to boast about his prices being cheaper than any one elses.
Have bought a few things through him.
Have you seen the new Sky Scan Go-To Eq6 . Might be worth getting a price from lee on it.
Mark

[loopy]

Cheers Mark - I think I saw it on his site, and or some reason $2k is coming to mind? I think the non-goto was about $1500 and this is about 500 more... I'll check up on that though. Would this mount be able to handle a decent scope?

Cheers,


Brad

[mch62]

Those prices would be about right.
In canada there only about $500 more than the standard one.
The Standard pricing is about right at 1500.
You know how I said to shop around , well there is a dealer up here in QLD that is selling the new Sky Scan mount for $3300:eyepop:
As long as the scope is not to long. Mine is 2000mm long and I think about 3-400mm to long for the mount. Weight wise the mount is rated to 18-25kgs.
I don't know about the new Sky Scan. It is machanicaly the same but not sure if the motors are upgraded for the Electronics .
Skywatcher as standard fits a 10f5 newt on the mount in a package.
Orion from the UK fit a 12" f 4.somthing on one as well in a package.

p.s. just checked the Sky watcher site and it appears the motors are upgraded.

http://www.skywatchertelescope.net/EQ6SkyScan.html
I would check the web and see if any reviews or comments are trickling in yet on the mount.
Mark

[loopy]

Cheers Mark - I like this idea better, because I don't have to buy a complete scope/mount set at once... so like buy cheap dob, eq6, big scope, good mount, ccd, and every step of the way my photos would have a chance to mature.

Cheers,


Brad

[etscumbag]

G'day Brad,
2 years ago I purchased an EQ6,the prior 18yrs I used an spdx vixen mount.during that time I adjusted the worm and wheel once.
Since purchasing the Eq6 I have lapped the worm and wheel twice with improving results .After that I purchsed an fs2 drive unit from Germany with 2 sanyo denki motors, replacing the old synta motors which actually produced there own PE.
Since then I have produced reasonable images both with ccd and film.For the last 6 months this mount has been a thorn in the side as far as consistancy goes.By that I mean adjusting the worm and wheel at least once a month,you cannot tighten the bolts up to much because you'll stripp them easily.
To be fair I paid $1500.00 for the mount (new) so really even after all the work I have put into this mount it still is'nt doing the job,primarily because of the material that the actual housing is made of which essentually is crap!being a cheap grade of aluminium cast,given the extreme accuracy that is required of mounts in ccd imaging the EQ6 is a good mount for observing only!
Yesterday I ordered an Atlux which I know will meet all the criteria I need.Vixen do produce quality gear.The Chinese still have a long ,long way to go.
Regards Dave:)

[Dennis]

Brad

I have a Vixen GP mount with DD-1 drive and MT1 motors (14 years old) and a GPDX mount with Skysensor 2000 and MT2 motors (10 years old) and both have progressed with me from visual astronomy, to 35mm tracking and manually guided astrophotography, then to ccd tracking and auto-guided imaging, and they have taken each of my progressions easily in their stride.

I have re-greased the GPDX once and tweaked the worm settings twice in that time. The Vixens are very capable, portable, minimum fuss imaging platforms for my 102mm f9 refractor and no-longer used 200mm f9 VC200L. The Vixens continue to be reliable workhorses that produce predictable results with minimum user intervention.

For my C9.25, I use a Takahashi EM200, which is in another league all together.

With mounts, you do appear to get what you pay for, it is as simple as that in my experience.

Cheers

Dennis

[ausastronomer]

Dennis,

Within its load limit the Vixen GP/DX is an excellent mount. As you correctly point out it's not up to the Takahashi EM200 but infinitely superior to the Chinese mounts. In terms of PEC I would also think the GP/DX is ahead of the Losmandy G11, unfortunately however it doesn't have the load capacity of the G11.

CS-John B

[Dennis]

Hi John

Absolutely – the G11 is in a different league to the GPDX for load carrying. I have heard that Scott Losmandy now ships mounts with the “new” worm, which greatly improves PEC?

I have also noticed that the GP and GPDX suffer from windshake, due to their relative lightweight and portability. This is even with the relatively short length of the 102mm f9 refractor. Fortunately, I am quite shielded by tress from the prevailing SE winds in my back garden.

Cheers

Dennis

[g__day]

I follow this with interest, I started a new thread today collating interesting data on mounts, their capabilities and maximum rated loads and periodic error.

Struck me that for a heavy scope (say a 9.25 or 11" SCT) you either go a EQ6 + skyscan ($2,200) CGE ($4,360), Tak (EM-200 $6,700) or Losmandy (G-11 $5,000) or Vixen Atlux ($7,550 + $900 -> $1320 for tripod or $1,060 for the pier). You get what you pay for so consider what you want from a mount when deciding between a $2,200, $4.4k, $5K, $6.7K or $9k option.

Vixen do look sexy, and within their specified weight range look tremendous value, but a Sphinx and a scope over 11Kgs is looking very doubtful.

[JohnH]

I went through this decision recently - and finally went with the Vixen Sphinx.

The main reason was the low native PE (for imaging). I am not the most gifted of mechanics and so did not want to buy a new mount and immediately be faced with a strip down/rebuild then repacement of motors and fitting of a goto - or use the SkyScan which has firmware cannot be upgraded. Ugh. Last time I looked the EQ6/Skyscan was $2300 plus work to get it right - Vixen mounts are very much in that range - well not the Atlux maybe. Good luck with your selection.

[g__day]

But JohnH, what was the weight of your OTA, because a EQ6 + Skyscan at Andrews is $2,100 and handles up to 25 Kg whereas the Vixen Sphinx at $2,700 handles about 11 Kg max.

[JohnH]

True - weight limit is lower on the Sphinx - but there are users out there with 10" on it who enjoy success - must be well balanced though. I have an 8" on it and it copes fine with that plus the 20d and guidescope.

Just my 2c for me accuracy and reliability >> total weight carrying as I mostly image and don't have appature fever (yet).

I applied the same thinking with tube - flat field >> appature.

But that is me - your decisions will be different I am sure.