AOE Binoculars, 12x60 or 15x70?

[eze]

Hello everybody

This is my first post here.
I am looking to have my first contact with the astronomy and after doing some reading I decided not to buy a crappy retail refractor scope , but a good pair of binoculars.
So I read that the AOE are quite good. But I am not sure which one to buy. I would like to buy the 15x70, but the thing is that I am not playing to buy a tripod for them. I read that they can be used for short term handling.
How difficult are they to used?Can you just lay down on a chair and help with your eyes? Or used some domestic help like books or soemthing like that.
Should I otherwise buy a 12x60 that would be more easy to use with the hands.
I don't have a lot of idea of what so see. I presume the moon would be nice and then just browsing through the ski to see if i can catch some clusters of star and start learning them.

Another thing to mention is that my wife will also would like to used them and of course I will show them to my two boys of 5 and 3.

Thanks in advance for your help

Regards
Ezekiel

[erick]

Hi Ezekiel - Welcome!

Great idea to start with a pair of binoculars and learn more about the sky.

Yes, I believe AOE give good service and supply quite satisfactory binoculars for the price. You can pay a lot more for the best quality, but I think, for beginners, one would be more than happy with both pairs you suggest.

Now, even the 12x60 can be difficult to hand hold if you want to intently study an object for a while. The 15x70 will be even more difficult. But this does depend on the person. There are people on this forum who seem to have success hand holding even 20x80s!

Any chance you can look through a pair first to get a sense of how easy they are to use? I think that may be the first step.

Another question is how often you want to look well up to the zenith? That brings its own problems - even with a good tripod.

There are options for observing without a tripod. One is to balance the binoculars on a small cushion on top of a fence post, or roof of a car - you just won't get to a high elevation. I've seen examples of putting the binoculars on a version of a monopod, but it was really just a broom, up-ended so the end of the handle was placed on the ground and the binoculars were held, by hand, on the head. That can provide quite a bit of stability to the view.

That's a few initial thoughts,
Eric :)

[glenc]

I use a banana lounge, rest my head on the backrest and my elbows on the armrests. The angle on the backrest is variable. (see image)

[Starkler]

If not buying a tripod I would recommend a size drop to 8x40's.
I have a pair of aoe 15x70's and they do get heavy quickly.

[eze]

Hi everybody

Thanks for your quick answer.
Eric, I think it would be a good idea to have a look to some binoculars to see how they feel. Do you know if there is any retail shop in Melbourne than I can found some binoculars of the same kind a weight? what about york optical?

Is there a big difference on what you can see with a 12x60 than with a 15x70. Are AOE 12x60 any good. Because I read in this forum some no very good coments, but I read that almost everybody is happy with the 15X70.

Glen , I was also thinking on using a babanalounge with armrest for using them. the idea of a fence or on the top of a car is also good.

How much it can cost a cheap tripod for the 15x70

Thanks again for all your help

[erick]

Eze

I'd expect York Optical to have a range. But most camera stores have a range of binoculars so I expect you can handle different sizes to get a feel for them in many shops.

I'm not sure what more you can see at 15x compared with 12x. At 15 times you have a smaller field of view than at 12 times. 70mm will collect a bit more light than 60mm. I can say that stepping between my 12x60 and my 20x80 is a significant change, but I would wonder whether an intermediate between them (the 15x70s) would be a significant change? Worth noting is that, as the magnification goes up, it is harder to locate things in the sky and to find your way around, compared to what you can see with your eyes. A lot of people would start at 8x or 10x and wouldn't even go to 12x, let alone 15x as a first pair of binoculars. I don't believe that 15x will ever be a general purpose pair of binoculars. I use my 12x as a general purpose pair to support me when I am using my telescope, even when I am using my 30x100 binoculars.

I'm happy with the AOE 12x60s, but best to hear from others. I don't know the 15x70s.

I can operate my 12x60s on a Velbon tripod worth around $100-110. I can, with care, put my 20x80s on that tripod. I don't think you could use any cheaper with a pair of 15x70 and perhaps, you'd do better with a tripod more in the $150 region.

Eric :)

[glenc]

I don't like using binoculars on a tripod, it's hard on my neck.
S&T used to recommend 7x50s for beginners then they changed to 10x50s.
My 20x80s weigh 2kg and were heavy to use at first but you get used to them. A slight movement doesn't worry me, in fact it helps me see faint objects. The view through 20x80 triplets is fantastic and the field is 3.2 degrees.

[saberscorpx]

Something about children and tripod mounted binos; You'll want a stepstool and to readjust the IPD for their views.
Handheld 7x35s or 8x40s are much more kid-friendly.

For completeness' sake, the image stabilized 15x50s are currently around $800 at Nextag.


SJS

[Kal]

I've used both of these along with a pair of 9x60s. I find the 9x60's to the my favourite for hand held viewing.

[erick]

I used my 12x60s last night for a while. It reminded me of how hard it is to hand hold for intent observing and how relatively small the field of view is when it comes to locating objects. I'm now convinced that anything more than this (eg. 15x) would not be a good entry level. In fact probably 10x would be better. I started with an old pair of 7x50s.

[eze]

Hi everyone

thanks again for your answer. I am almost convince of buying a 12X60. They all seems to agree that for starters the maximun magnifier should be 10 , but I would like to have a bit more power, be able to see something more, since I am not planning on buying an other Binocular ( hopefully I would change emy mind) but maybe a telescope if I get enthusiams with the astronomy.

Erik
about the field of view. I don't have any idea of what is big or small. For instance, with your 12x60 if you have a look at the full moon, can you see it all without moving the binos, or you have to move them? If you have to move them, how much?

Cheers
Eze

[glenc]

With 12x60 you will see 11 times the diameter of the moon.
The moon is 0.5 degrees across and the binocular field about 5.5 degrees.
For example.
http://www.binoculars.com/binoculars/astronomy-binoculars/celestronskymaster12x60centerfocus. cfm

[eze]

So

That would mean I won't be able to see many details of the moon?

[erick]

Hi Eze

Sounds like you need to have a look at these binoculars. If you don't mind a drive to Knoxfield one evening, I'd be happy to show you my binoculars, including the 12x60s I bought from AOE. If you leave it until the week before Christmas, we will be approaching full Moon so you can see how the Moon looks through them. But the week before Christmas can be busy?

Drop me a Private Message if you want to follow this up.

Eric :)

[norm]

Hi Eze,

I have a pair of 15x70 - highly recommended. However, after a few mins, they can get a bit tiring.

For kids that age, to be honest, I think they'll struggle unless you have a decent mount for them. 2ndly you need to adjust them to fit their eyes and then focus - becomes a hassle. In the end you don't know if they really end up seeing anything or they just say they do. This is based on experience as I tried getting my kids involved.

As for a tripod - anything cheap IMO is a waste of money. Your better spending the $ on getting something decent and made for that size.

Check out the projects and articles on making a parallelogram mount in the forum. I made one from tube aluminum for around $40 - you will still need the tripod component to buy or possible make - they're great to use and no more tired arms.

Good luck :):thumbsup:

[glenc]

Here are some binocular chair plans if you are interested.
http://www.iceinspace.com.au/index.php?id=63,382,0,0,1,0
http://ghonis2.ho8.com/garysbinochair1.html
http://www.homebuiltastronomy.com/binochair/BinocularChair.html

[Nevyn]

I have been looking at a pair of 12x60's for some time now. My question, is there a noticable difference in quality between the Andrews 12x60's http://www.andrewscom.com.au/site-section-11.htm and the AOE 12x60's http://www.aoe.com.au/aoe60hp.html? I realise the AOE state that they are
"Fully broadband Multi-Coated on all surfaces". Any help will be appreciated. Another question :D anyone have any experience with zoom binoculars, I can say that what ever pair I eventually buy will get as much if not more terrestrial use!

Cheers Brad

[saberscorpx]

The AOE's better coatings decrease reflections (increase contrast).
Potentially important spec info for the Andrews model is not shown- notably eye relief and field of view.

re: zoom binoculars

Zoom models are not recommended for those primarily interested viewing the night sky.
Fixed-power binoculars (up to 20x) offer up to a 50% wider view than zoom binoculars set to the same magnification.
Decreased optical precision due to the difficulty of keeping the zoom elements in each eyepiece in perfect syncronization, and difficulty to handhold at higher magnification are other disadvantages.


SJS

[Nevyn]

Thanks saberscorpx!
I was leaning towards the AOE's but the price of the Andrew's caught my eye.

[Gargoyle_Steve]

Hi Nevyn - let me say first off that I have no affiliation with either Andrew's or AOE, though I have in the past bought astro gear from both, and I have been delighted with the service I received, and with the price and quality of equipment that I purchased from each of them as well.

Ok, disclaimer out of the way ... I am firmly convinced that a number of the binocular models that are advertised on the "Andrews" page are manufactured in the same factory as many of the AOE models.
http://www.oberwerk.com/products/products.htm

I am not aware of any difference between the 2 pairs of 12x60 you are looking at, I do not however own a pair of these from either supplier. If the price or specs at one or the other look appealing why not contact each of them in turn and ask any relevant questions. I have found them both to be enormously helpful and willing to discuss equipment details.

Enjoy your new binoculars, whatever you end up getting!

[Starkler]

Heres what I had to say about the 15x70's back in 2005
http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=3710&highlight=15x70

[eze]

Hi

Happy new year to everyone
I just wanted to let you know that I end up buying a 12x60 AOE and I am very happy with them.
Thanks everybody for your help and time.
I have spent some hours in these holidays browsing the sky and trying to learn some of the costellations.
I also when to the great ocean road for a couple of days and have a very nice and clear night three days ago and it was amazing.
I will be in Tasmania next week so hopefully I will spend some more time there.
I am ok with using them without a tripod but my arms get tired after let said one hour of use. I still can used them after that , but my hands shake more , so I cannot get better images.
Do you know if I will be able to see any of the comets that are passing this month like the 8P/tuttle or Holmes

Cheers

[saberscorpx]

Congrats on the new glass, eze.
Here's a great list of bino targets to hunt down
when you're ready:
http://www.astroleague.org/al/obsclubs/sskybino/ssbinoc2.html

re: Do you know if I will be able to see any of the comets that are passing this month like the 8P/tuttle or Holmes

Both are waiting for you from a dark site.
Tuttle finder charts:
http://www.rasnz.org.nz/Comets/Tuttle.htm
Holmes:
http://www.rasnz.org.nz/Comets/Holmes.htm


SJS

[comm64]

Hi Everybody,

Been reading up this thread, and i too would like to start doing some stargazing.. everybody seems to suggest starting off with binoculars...

Will i be able to see planets with binoculars such as saturn and the rings? I like the price on this one http://www.aoe.com.au/aoe60hp.html

I couldn't find this binoculars at BinTel site, does anybody know a good store in the Melbourne area to get these?

Cheers all.

[glenc]

You can see all the planets but no rings... Pluto is not a planet now.
Binoculars are best for bright comets, clusters, nebulae and galaxies.
Use a star map and binoculars to get to know the sky.
Here are some more prices: http://www.andrewscom.com.au/site-section-11.htm

[Sammas]

Why do you want to buy binos instead of a telescope? A large, expensive pair of binoculars that have to be mounted to use properly and which cost a lot is actually an expensive low-power telescope! Nothing wrong with this, but it does defeat the purpose of using binoculars for beginner use.

The reason 10x50s are usually recommended is that:

* you can see a lot through them (because they amplify the light reaching your eyes)
* they're cheap - less than $150
* they're wide field, low magnification (meaning you can see a larger part of the night sky through them which means you can still make out constellations and get a sense of the relationship between objects in the sky)
* they're easy to use - just whip em out and pop outside.
* they can be used for other activities during the day so even if you don't stick with astronomy, you haven't blown your $150.

If you get large binos, you start knocking these things out one by one. If you end up knocking too many things out, you might as well have a telescope because you'll get more bang for your buck.

For my money I'd start with 10x50s and save up for a telescope because once you start looking at the night sky with your 10x50s and realising how many amazing things there are up there (and working out WHERE they are!) you'll be hooked and spending $600 on an 8 or 10 inch dob will be the easiest financial decision you've made in your life. :)