CCD Camera for a Total Beginner?

[Matty P]

Hi i'm a total Newbie to IIS. :thumbsup:

I was just wondering what CCD camera would best suit a total beginner like me? I'm looking to start out in astrophotography. I'd like to start of imaging planets and bright objects before I proceed with the DSOs.

Any suggestions?

Best regards :D
Matt

[kljucd1]

Hi Matt,

I will leave it up to others to answer because I am looking into the same thing at the moment but, :hi::welcome:

[[1ponders]]

DSO and planetary generally require different functionality in a camera so it is not easy to get one that does well in both areas. Yes you can get modded webcams like the ToUcam that you can take DSOs with but it will never compete equally with a camera designed for DSOs. Similarly you can take planetary and luna images with some CCD Cameras that have short enough exposures, but they generally have image download times that restrict their usefulness where as webcam style cameras can stream up to 60 frames per sec.

My suggestion is, if you really want to go this way, get yourself a good webcam (ToUcam, DMK or similar) and start with the planets and the moon. When you decide to move onto DSOs you can purchase something like an ATiK cooled colour camera for your DSOs or a second hand DSLR and use the webcam for auto guiding.

[Matty P]

After much research I've found that the Meade DSI (1,2,3)is a very good inexpensive CCD camera for beginnners. Firstly I was looking at the Celestron Neximage for planetary use except I will quickly grow out of it. So I want to find a camera that will last me a long time and one that I will not grow out of.

I still need convincing which CCD camera I should start off with?

Thanks for the posts :thumbsup:

Best regards
Matt

[[1ponders]]

Well that will definately open a can of worms. For what it's worth I think you will find much better cameras for not much more in price. A lot of people use them and like them. I'm not one of them, and I have had, and still have, one. If I use it, it is as a guide camera only.

Personally I think you would be much better off with a Canon 350D (at about the same price second hand, or cheaper) than with a DSI.

Can't comment on the Neximager except to say that most, not all but most, of those I know who have had one didn't take long to switch over to a ToUcam.

[Glenhuon]

My own experience with the DSI1 has not been good. I would advise looking for a 350D or Toucam. I use a cheap aGent webcam for the moon and its streets ahead of the DSI for ease of use and image quality.

Bill

[Matty P]

Hi,

How would the Canon 350D be mounted to the telescope?

Can it be used to take long exposure images?

How much does it cost?

I want to get into astrophotography with the best camera possible for a reasonable price.

Thanks for the help!

Clear Skies
Matt

[[1ponders]]

Basically you take the lens off, fit an adapter to it (T Ring) (http://www.myastroshop.com.au/products/details.asp?id=MAS-250) and a Prime Focus Adapter (http://www.myastroshop.com.au/products/details.asp?id=MAS-129)and slot it into your telescope. This works well with refractors and Schmidt Cassegrains. It will work for a newtonian as well as long as the scope is designed to reach focus with it, which may mean having a primary mirror closer to the secondary, or getting a low profile focuser to you can get the camera closer to the secondary mirror.

Be aware though if you are thinking of just putting a camera into a telescope and taking photos, whether it be a DSI or a DSLR or any other camera for Deep Sky imaging, it just doesn't work like that. Without knowing how much astronomy you have done it is a bit hard to know what detail to go into. I'd suggest that maybe you could go along to a local astronomy night as see what is involved in astrophotography. If you would like to start with widefield imaging in piggyback mode then the costs aren't too prohibitive. If you want to get into deepsky with anysort of moderate focal length then you will quickly start to run into significant costs.

[Matty P]

Hi,

I've been doing research about beginning astrophotography and found that to take successful long exposures you need to Polar Align your scope. :) :sadeyes:

I might start out with imaging bright objects like planets and the moon before I start imaging DSOs. With Mars at its opposition in December does anyone have opinions of which webcam package would be the best to start out with. I've read great reviews about the SPC900nc and the Celestron Neximage for Lunar & Planetary use. IMHO i'd like to purchase a camera that includes software and is easy to use. Don't forget at a reasonable price!

Best Regards :thanks:
Matt

[iceman]

Hi Matt
In that case, the ToUcam 900nc is the best budget webcam you can get. Easy to use, you can download free software for capture and processing, and it won't break the bank.

Perfect for lunar/planetary.

[jase]

Matt, my advice to the above statement is go with something reasonably cheap. By the sounds of things, you've never done astrophotography so how do you know you'll like it? Making a considerable investment into a camera my end up a waste of time and money. Certainly heed the advice of others on this forum, they've been along same winding road that stands before you.

I'm with Paul on this one. If you're interested in getting into DSO imaging, start with wide field work such as piggyback photography on an EQ or barn door style mount. You can use a regular DSLR or even a film based camera and get instant results that are pleasing. This can be a good confidence boost (and believe me, you'll need it). This is a cost effective way to get started. Buying expensive gear and jumping straight into prime focus imaging is risky and will lead to disappointment. Astrophotography will test your patients, be prepared for steep learning curves and long nights of frustration - above all, have fun.

[Matty P]

I want to start out with the Celestron Neximage for planetary imaging first. Then if I want to upgrade I want to buy a Meade DSI (1 or 2) for DSO imaging. I will start out imaging in Alt-Az mode then eventually upgrade to a wedge.

Best regards
Matt

[iceman]

Hi Matt
The Toucam 900nc is better than the NexImage. They're essentially the same camera, but the ToUcam has a better chipset with less noise, and a better codec.

What scope are you using?

[Matty P]

Hi iceman,

I am using a Celestron Nexstar 8SE SCT

How much is the SPC900nc with a telescope adapter? :confuse3:

Best Regards
Matt

[iceman]

You can get the 900nc off ebay for under $100, or you can it with the adapter from telescopes-astronomy for under $200.

[Matty P]

Thanks iceman,

What free software would be the best to use with the 900nc?

Does anyone have any images taken with the 900nc?

Best Regards
Matt

[[1ponders]]

If you do a search in the Solar System Forum for ToUcam and Neximager you will be able to do a comprison. Lots of images taken with the ToUcam, both the 840 and the 900, not too many from the Neximager though.

You can capture with the software that comes with the ToUcam but K3CCDTools Version 1 is free but need a new key every 45 days or so which isn't abig problem. There are plenty of others like Virtual Dub, Craterlet...plenty around. The processing software Registax V4 is free, infact Celestron pack Registax 3 onto their disk even though you can download a better version for free..

[Matty P]

Which imager would be easier to use for a beginner? Neximage or Toucam?

What EP does the 900nc compare to? 6-8mm?

Best Regards
Matt

[[1ponders]]

Yes about a 6-8mm eyepiece. Stick with the ToUcam, you will find many more people with experience and advice than for the Neximager.

[peter_4059]

Matt,

I don't think you'll notice any difference in ease of use between these cameras except for the following issues:

If you buy a webcam designed to sit on your computer and take images of your face you'll need to remove the lens and attach an adaptor that fits in your focuser. I think you'll need to purchase the adaptor from someone like Steven Mogg. If you buy a webcam that has been built for astro imaging the steps above will have been done for you but you'll pay for someone else to do this for you.

The software you get with each camera is going to be different. I bought a Neximage and it comes with Amcap which is very basic image capture software. I'm not familiar with the Phillips software but the screen shots I've seen lead me to believe it is similar in functionality to Amcap with some nicer features. In any case you can download K3CCD tools free and this is probably going to be better than whatever you get with either webcam.

I've recently purchased a DSI to get longer exposures but I'm still having fun with the Neximage.

I've seen some web sites that suggest that the Neximage is actually similar if not the same as the original Phillips Toucam internally. I'd be interested if anyone on the forum has managed to confirm this it true or false?

Here are two links that show how to do a long exposure modification for each camera. Both refer to the Phillips SAA8116 chip.

http://fdiazhome.tzo.com/Astronomy/Neximage-Mod/

http://www.burri-web.org/bm98/l3k/circuit-layout.htm

I've posted a few Neximage pics (as well as DSI pics) on this forum so if you want to get an idea of what to expect check out the forum search function.

good luck

Peter.

[Matty P]

Hi,

I've decided that I'm going to buy the 900nc. Many people have said that the 900nc is more versatile than the Neximage and produces better quality images. I've seen some fantastic images taken with the 900nc and couldn't say anymore. I have some questions.

What kind of adapter is the best for the cam and where can i get?

Do I need anything else before I start? What does an IR filter do? Do I need it?

Best Regards
Matt

[iceman]

Hi Matt
You need a standard 900nc -> 1.25" adapter. Steve Mogg from moggadapter.com has these. They're pretty cheap. You can also get them from telescopes-astronomy.com.au for about $45.

The IR filter is good to have, though it's not absolutely mandatory. You may as well get one - it will deliver sharper images without letting IR light bleed into your colour channels.

[Matty P]

Before I purchase the 900nc, I'd like to say that I already have a Logitech Quickcam Sphere PTZ. The Quickcam can take up to 30fps and the 900nc up to 90fps. Which one would be better overall? :shrug:

Is it possible to get a telescope adapter for the Quickcam? Do you think it is worth it? :sadeyes:

Thanks for the Help

Best Regards :thumbsup:
Matt

[[1ponders]]

I'd suggest that if you are coming at this from a totally experience free background you could help your start by reading these articles in the "Projects and Articles" section.

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/index.php?id=63,306,0,0,1,0
http://www.iceinspace.com.au/index.php?id=63,431,0,0,1,0
http://www.iceinspace.com.au/index.php?id=63,201,0,0,1,0