Meteor showers visable from Low in the Southern Hemisphere

[meteorObserva]

I am at the bottom of Australia and have in the last few weeks taken a more serious approach to observing meteors. After enjoying heaps last sumer nights while taking dog out for toilet, I noticed that I had not seen any for many months. Partly because of winter cloud, but now I find out through reading that it was just generally a slow time of the year. So to my delight I started seeing heaps over the last few weeks, with this number dramatically increased because I now know where to watch in the sky.

It has come to my attention however that the majority of the meteor showers that are commonly listed as visable from the southern hemispere. All seem to be in the Northern or Eastern sky, sumtimes directly above, but I havn't found one yet that requires me to look out South or West over the ocean. So it got me to thinking that maybe thats because most observations in hystory have been from Northern hemispere or quite high up in the southern and that maybe the very south has mearly been largely unobservable (except by those in Antartica maybe) until recent hystory, and even then it takes sum1 to actually recognize a meteor shower.

So I guess My question is, Is it worth looking out that way for new, undiscovered or unrecoreded meteor showers? I have been observing one shower with a ZHR of nearly 40, straight above my location for the last few nights, but can't seem to find a shower to correnspond. They are very faint and only short trails, but quite numerous. When I learn my constellations better I will let u know exacty where it is. I am only familiar with the north eastern sky ATM.

[fringe_dweller]

do you live in the country somewhere dark at MR? would be the first question, but I am assuming that you are of course.
southern showers are a mysterious area, due to as you said lack of dedicated observers/small pop.
But there were era's such as the 60's, were visual meteor observation was a much more popular pursuit in oz/world, than it is now, and some serious study was done in SH by some individuals. I think in the 30's was another era? like this. possibly always co-inciding with great leonids returns mebbe lol. possibly all the dark skies back then, with street lights going off at 11pm at one stage ect.
A lot of stuff has been/is studied via sensitive video/all sky cams, and radar/radio also, and vid is very accurate at associating/aligning radiants of course.
there was some ozzie meteor video stations at times, including a calibrating/telemetry network I think - with some minor showers found possibly.
There is a network of fireball meteor cameras in WA, wheat belt I think, they are fairly mysterious tho. Dont hear much from them.

http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/space/SpaceRepublish_1222754.htm

http://www.24hourmuseum.org.uk/nwh_gfx_en/ART40995.html

also it is possible to find yet undiscovered comets/asteroids by extropolating back to an orbit in some cases. so you can actually, in theory, find a comet via discovering a new radiant/shower, and at least one or two have been identified that way.
off the top of my head, the best truely southern showers imo would be the sagattarids/ophiuicids, they seem to have a few names? some confusion on them, but its just the anthelion radiant of course, appearing to come out of sag overhead in early may, then the puppid complex, and alpha centaurids.
But new ones or long period returns can come out of nowhere, I think there has been short lived era's of amazing southern showers in the past, and can be again!
there is also a small australian yahoo group of meteor observers online

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/EAMN/

anyway the constellation this shower appears to come from/ or compass directions would help a lot!

and you dont find radiants in the west so much coz its the morning sky in the east you want, the old bugs splattering on the front windscreen, not the backwindow ;) as thats the direction the earth moves through space relative to sun, at that time of the day, first half of the night to 12 pm we are still in the leeward side, so to speak, same as the afternoon, and of course morning would be the best time to see a daylight fireball of course. doesnt matter about the east so much as the radiant being in the post 12 pm into am sky roughly, but west is least likely direction to come from most of the time.

[fringe_dweller]

should also ask what time of the night is it you have been seeing these meteors overhead?

[Alchemy]

meteor observa..... if you know the time you observed then a planetarium program such as starry night has the shower radiants in its data base and these can be correlated to suit your location. or post time here and someone will help.:)

[Blue Skies]

Hi MeteorObserva,

You must give the time of night so we can get some idea of what constellation it is coming from - with time, and rough direction and altitude we might be able to get some idea of where it is coming from. The Taurids are active at the moment, they are associated with comet Encke. It could be them. I've also got an old old list on hand that might help if we can get idea of the radiant direction.

On the other hand, I'm just about to prepare a talk for the local club in Perth on meteor showers to be given at the end of the month. One of the things I have been emphasising over the last couple of years is that because the southern sky is so poorly watched for meteor showers that we should all be aware of what one is and what it looks like so that on the off chance you do see something unusual and not in the book you will know what to note and report on. There was also an interesting paper I picked up during the height of Leonids madness a few years ago that indicated that the sudden appearance of new showers could hint at an unknown earth-crossing comet that was approaching! :scared: Keep looking up!

[Blue Skies]

In case any beginners are reading this thread with some interest and would like to know more a good place to start is Gary Kronk's pages here: http://meteorshowersonline.com/index.html :thumbsup:

[ballaratdragons]

meteorObserva,

you will probably find that meteor showers are extremely rare in the western horizon coz the Earth turns towards the East.

As the Earth turns East, it moves INTO the meteors. :thumbsup:

[meteorObserva]

k, sry guys to keep u hanging. Had business in Perth. Time of night I have observed the meteors was about 11pm-1am. I'm in Margaret River, so I imagine the sky is almost identical to u above perth. It was litterally straight up when orion was approx 35-40 deg above horizon, keep rotating up and thats where they were coming from. From the one radiant, most travelled towards the south westerly direction, but sum came from all directions. Faint, short and all similar speed.

[fringe_dweller]

thanks for details MO, but i can't think of what they could be other than faint s.taurids, and a meteors starting point in the sky is not where the radiant is, unless they are extremely short or point meteors, they only trace back to that point/radiant.
the ones coming from every direction are most likely to be sporadics.
you didnt say how dark your skies are?
i saw 3 very nice bright colourful taurids, 2 st close together, and 1 nt, this thursday morning around 2 am from lp-ed suburban backyard in just half an hour or so of viewing, while out looking at 17P.
its a mystery to me mate! keep looking up tho :thumbsup: thanks for letting us know - you never know eh!

[danielsun]

I have been out every night this week imaging and have seen many meteors from aprox Taurus ( some rippers too!) and seemed like peak times were between 11:00 and 12:00.
I know that they usually should start to peak after midnight but I have been out there till approx 3:30am.

[Starr]

hi there, always feel a bit to amateurish to say much. I'm just checking out if the leonids are due next week
Cheers, Starr NE Victoria

[Blue Skies]

Yes, indeed they are. I've even seen a prediction of a small peak of around 40 ZHR on the morning of the 18th (I think, might have to chase that one down) but the peak would happen over African longitudes. Any observers in Australia might see gradually increasing rates but you also might see the usual 4-10 per hour in that short window that southern Australia has. I've learnt from experience that while we don't get to see many Leonids due to the low altitude of the radiant here, there is always at least one ripper of a fireball around maximum, which can make it all worthwhile. Here in Perth (lat 32 S) I usually recommend to beginners that they observe from 2am to 4am non-daylight savings time, after which the twilight gets too bright. Since you are further south that might be different. However two of the best Leonids I ever saw was a massive earthgrazer around midnight one year, and the smoke train of a big fireball in the brightening morning twilight that hung around for 10 minutes!

[Blue Skies]

I agree with fringe_dweller that the shower in question is the southern Taurids. Comet Encke paid us a visit this year and rates often increase around the time of a visit, so this would make sense to me. Sounds like you are also noticing a lot of sporadics while you're out there. There's always lots of sporadics.

You rarely see meteors appearing directly from the radiant, the usual story is to see them start a good 20-30 deg from the radiant. It's only the big showers (Leonids, eta Aquarids) that you get to see them right next to the radiant. This would make sense with the Taurids - they are coming up from the NE where Taurus is rising and first appearing overhead as they run towards the SW.

From the old list I have the only other shower that it could remotely be is the delta Eridanids, and Eridanis would be overhead at this time - BUT the period of activity is listed as Nov 9 to 26th, which hasn't even arrived yet!

[meteorObserva]

Down south here I have pretty dark skies. The closest lights are a small town 3km's away and below trees, so viewing is pretty good aslong as there's no cloud in the North-east.

[Blue Skies]

Light pollution has nothing to do with it, it's simply a matter of perspective - I think some understanding of the how and why of meteor showers would help here, if I may.

There is a kids exercise for understanding meteor showers where you stand a whole lot of dry spaghetti in a flat plate of plasticine. Then you look down the middle of it from the top. The spaghetti sticks in the middle should seem very short and stumpy, as you are looking directly down them. The sticks around the outside should look longer as they spread away from the central point. The same things happens with meteor showers. Any meteors seen very close to the radiant, within 10 degrees of it, will be very short and stumpy, as the meteors are heading directly towards you. I mentioned above that you don't commonly see this. What you usually see, no matter where you are and what level of light pollution is around, are the longer ones, the ones heading to the side of you, so to speak, and they appear to begin about 20 to 30 degrees away from the radiant, or even further. While you may be seeing lots of meteors that start their trains directly overhead your location, the radiant is in reality located further away than you realise.

[meteorObserva]

cheers, I understand a little better now

Clouds tonight, no meteors for me. Maybe I'll try tuning a radio to listen to them. ANy particularly good frequencies BluskieS?/

[Blue Skies]

:thumbsup: Was getting a bit worried there I might have hared off on the wrong track...(I get a bit passionate about things at times)

Sorry, not into the radio side of things, I'm more a visual observer.

[meteorObserva]

To my best guess using google earth/sky I rekon they were coming from near Piscis Austrinus or there abouts. Thats where they started burning ~~~

[fringe_dweller]

Daniel sounds like a great show!
the height of the radiant or time when shower radiant crosses meridian also matters in the equation, and the taurids radiants are highest aound 12:47 in pre DS time, they are unusually high up at/near midnight for a decent little shower btw - unlike the opposite case leonids for instance, at our lat. which isnt till nearer to dawn, but then you throw again into equation the time the peak hits/ what predicted world timeline/long. it favours/optimum times, its not easy to figure out unless you study the form a bit. even then theres the weather/moon on top of that :whistle: lol

[fringe_dweller]

The times ive been out to really dark skies, specially certain times of the year, i am amazed how many meteors you can see, meteors that would look anemic in the city look like impressive fireballs out there! lol coz the sporadic rate goes up and down over a year too, peaks and troughs with them also. but you feel like theres unknown showers going on sometimes out in the sticks, i have had that feeling more than a few times over the years when out somewhere remote in perfect conditions.

i just wish to add to the bugs splatering on front windscreen analogy, on top of that, you have the sweeping action of the earth at that time of the day, so not only are we moving forward in space around sun at a phenomenal rate of course, but the earths rotation speed also comes into play here in the dark morning sky quadrant as it turns into them adding more speed to the two cars in a head-on crash, the fireworks of impact is amplified effect. just to add to confusion :P

with radio, its kinda harder here with sparse pop. lack of powerful radio stations at usable distances (1000 k away? cant remember now without looking it up,) to point aerial at all over the place, preferably east, to do the simpler method boom box home radio thing. you definitely need the youbeaut powerful dick smith type aerial they all use i think. i did it a bit of it on a few occasions, you certainly hear them (and i mean by that, suddenly you hear a reflected signal from very distant radio station, so a portion of the song is heard for instance, which can be quite comedic if it works out humorously, and duration and intensity can tell you about size/brightness - ie a big slow fireball will play loud and strong for a while) but out of clear dark sky eyeballing, and radio obs, i know which one i would chose :thumbsup: altho i think clear weather is still important to radio obs too? thunderstorms and anything that messes withe ionisphere would change things?
just google it Meteorobserva?

[fringe_dweller]

Blue Skies,
LP does matter to seeing the fainter ones of course, and I was trying to determine if they were faint ones seen from in the town, or faint ones from somewhere dark, faint ones seen from somewhere dark arent going to be seen at all from the city/big town, so we could a rough magnitude average on them, thats all :D :thumbsup:

[fringe_dweller]

hehe *found* this graphic - its for a good cause!? just reverse for southern hemisphere

[Karls48]

If you have old PC with sound card and radio tuner lying around, you can download Radio SkyPipe (http://www.radiosky.com/skypipeishere.html) to capture meteors using commercial FM radio stations. Even with simple dipole antenna it works quite good thought I stoped using it couple years ago when I switched to CCD camera for recording

[fringe_dweller]

well Robert Lunsford's page is up now for this current period,
something about the November Piscids hmmmm thats a new one! :-)

http://www.amsmeteors.org/lunsford/

[fringe_dweller]

sometimes I feel bad for the 'sporadics' being treated as ferals, when they do often have pedigree, here's a c&p from my meteor observing folder, stuff i have lifted from net over years, could say a few books worth even :D

and you would naturally think thought meteor science was simple :D

'Sporadic Meteors
contributed by Robert Lunsford
Secretary General of the International Meteor Organization

Sporadic meteors are usually considered as random occurrences not associated with any particular meteor shower. In fact there are areas of the sky which continually produce activity not associated with any known showers.

There are six known sources of sporadic activity. They are called the Helion, Antihelion, Northern Apex, Southern Apex, Northern Toroidal, and Southern Toroidal sources. The meteors from the Helion source are from an area near the sun's location in the sky and rarely seen visually. The word 'Helion' comes from the Greek 'helios' meaning sun.

The two Toroidal sources refer to debris in orbits highly inclined to the ecliptic. They are not well known and are in need of study before accurate positions can be published.

This leaves the two Apex sources plus the Antihelion source as possible targets for the visual meteor observer. The difficulty in shower association with these sources is the large size of the radiant areas compared to the tight radiants for the major annual showers. The radiants can be as large as 20 degrees by 20 degrees which may encompass several constellations. If the observer is aware of the nightly positions of these sources and the fact that these meteors vary in apparent velocity, according to their distance from the radiant, then it may be possible to identify potential members of these sources.

The first source active each night is the Antihelion radiant. These meteors are produced by low inclination particles in direct orbit around the sun that intercept the Earth at a perpendicular angle. The position of this radiant is on the ecliptic, 195 degrees east of the sun (or 165 degrees west). This places it in the opposite portion of the sky from the sun. This means it will rise in the east shortly after sunset and will be visible the remainder of the night. It is best seen near 0100 local standard time when it culminates in the southern or northern sky, depending upon your observing location. Since they encounter the Earth in a "broadside" direction their actual velocity will be neither slow or fast, but rather somewhere in between. Their observed velocity will appear slower than most meteors, especially when meteors are seen near the radiant as these meteors will be coming right at the observer and foreshortening will occur. Meteors seen far from the radiant will appear a bit faster as they produce longer paths in the sky. The reason these meteors do not have a radiant exactly opposite the sun (180 degrees) is an effect called the "Apex Attraction". The motion of the Earth causes the apparent radiant of all of these sporadic sources to be shifted towards the direction the earth is traveling in space.

The two Apex sources are produced by debris orbiting in a retrograde motion, encountering the earth in a "head-on" direction. This is essentially material hitting the earth's "front windshield" as we move through space. There is a distinct lack of low inclination particles from this source which creates the double radiant located 15 degrees north and 15 degrees south of the ecliptic, 90 degrees west of the sun. This area of the sky does not rise until midnight local standard time. Therefore, these meteors are strictly a morning display and are best seen just before the start of morning twilight, when the radiants are highest in the sky. Since these meteors strike the Earth from a "head-on" direction they will appear swift, and often long, except near the radiant, where foreshortening will create short paths in the sky.

All of these sources produce low activity and rarely exceeds 5 meteors per hour to the unaided eye. They are of little interest to the casual meteor observer but they offer observers, especially those who plot, an opportunity to recognize some interesting sources of meteor activity.'

[fringe_dweller]

off topic, a little one thing that always niggles me, I never hear from aussies at mid to far northern lat. meteor observers or whoever boasting 'bout the absolutely rip roaring persied showers they witnessed in the mid 90's :shrug: man I would be bragging loooong and loud about those ones if i had seen them - I remember even my mum in brissy was impressed by them at the time - and thats saying something!
'
so c'mon tell me some stories - pleeeaasssee :help: a poor meteor starved mexican CMON