Talk me out of it

[matt]

I currently own a C9.25 and have been quite happy with it for the last few years...but I've been offered a Takahashi Mewlon 250 at a very nice price. We're talking about a saving of several thousand $$$.

It's still going to cost me a little more than twice the price of a brand new 9.25...but those 1/20th wave optics and legendary Tak fit and finish are calling me...with the power and lure of what feels like a Siren's song:lol:

I can afford it....and I'd love to see the difference it might afford for resolution when planetary imaging.

So ...what do you think?

I'm aware I'm not going to be gaining much in terms of aperture...but for me it's a dream 10" lunar and planetary imaging machine. It's a scope in this aperture range of the quality I couldn't afford before, and hence sprung for a 9.25;)

I'd be selling the 9.25 to part-fund the purchase...so anyone interested in a proven performer of an SCT should get in touch via PM.

Go ahead...talk me out of it.:D

[Rodstar]

Go for it, Matt! Sounds like an opportunity too good to refuse.

(I am aware that is NOT what your thread invited me to say)....

[mill]

I am certainly not talking you out of it.
Go ahead and buy it, you know you want it:astron::party::party2:
And this will happen after the buy :cloudy::windy:

[mick pinner]

you know we won't, buy and be damned.

[xelasnave]

Well think about this...

On your death bed will you regret that you did not spend more time in the office?

I was a very good salesman once because I helped folk do what they were being told by their friends was not a good idea... you feel as though the step is a big one ... well its not really... its your destiny.

Frankly I think I am not going to offer your any reason why not to do it.

When opportunity knocks open the door and invite it in....

best wishes ..just do it you know you want to....

alex

[Lee]

You can't take it with you! Spend away....

[matt]

You're all making an awful lot of sense....:rofl::rofl:

[ving]

dont do it...

[Dennis]

Just do it Matt, although keep in mind the more expensive Tak accessories and perhaps a beefier mount? I wouldn’t hesitate one moment!

Cheers

Dennis

[mill]

What the?
But but he has to do it :(

[Nevyn]

I believe Queensland could do with a little rain at the moment, and with a purchase like this one you could probably end the drout in two states:whistle:


Sorry for my SOH!
Brad

[h0ughy]

your askingus to tell you no - no way, you cant take it with you when your gone.

[matt]

Er...not really, Dave.

More like hoping to accumulate enough 'go for its' that they'll clear the conscience!:lol::lol:

So far...there aren't too many arguments in the negative.

Hmmm.

[ballaratdragons]

and what happens if you aren't happy with it?

You no longer have the 9.25 that you are happy with, and stuck with an expensive scope you don't like.
Is it possible for you to test taking an image thru one before you actually commit, to see if it is what you expect?

Temptation can be a curse, test before you buy.

[matt]

Wise words...Sir Kenneth.

I'd most likely sell the 9.25 after purchasing the Mewlon.

Tak come with a pretty good reputation for quality control.

And this will come with the usual warranty etc etc

In the unlikely event it proves to be a lemon...it'd be sent home.

[davidpretorius]

paul haese was looking at mewlons and i really really like what dennis produces.

peter did have issues with his tak (refractor) and there was a real pain in the ass cos it had to go back to japan...........

make sure of the warranty and if possible do some star tests etc.

[dugnsuz]

I believe you need to post this on AstronomyWidows.com for that answer!

Doug:thumbsup:

[RB]

The Mewlon 250 is excellent Matt.
Which mount will you be using it on?

[Dennis]

Hi Matt

It’s worth noting that the world class images of Jupiter on this Forum produced by imagers such as Bird and Mike are captured with 13 ½ and 12 inch OTA’s; Damien uses a 14 inch SCT (you knew that – great article by the way!:thumbsup:).

10” is only 10” and I know from practical experience that there is only so much image scale I can squeeze out of my Mewlon 180.

Cheers

Dennis

[matt]

Very true, Dennis...A few considerations which have certainly crossed my mind in my thought processes.

As I said in my original post, I'm aware the Mewlon isn't much of a step up in terms of aperture from the 9.25.

But this isn't a decision inititated by aperture fever.

I'm not sure I would really want to go any bigger than 10"? I don't have an observatory or anything vaguely resembling a permanent set-up.

What I'm really keen to see is the quality of image a 10" Mewlon is capable of producing.

While it might not produce the quality of image Damian or Mike produce with their scopes, that might end up having as much to do with my inferior processing skills as much as any limitation of the M250? That's something I am working on, BTW. I've thrown myself fully into unravelling the 'mystery' of Photoshop. So, I might see a little improvement in my images in about...oh...let's see....three years!!!

Anyway, certainly 10" will have a hard time competing with 12" or 14" for that extra little bit of light and extra resolution.

Still...I'm fascinated to see what the M250 is capable of, given its F12 3000mm focal length and first class optics. That should certainly deliver plenty of image scale and coupled with it 1/20th wave optics...that should deliver quite a wallop!!!

The truth is, I've just not seen an awful lot of planetary images taken with the M250. I don't have a lot of photographic evidence by which to measure it, and that seems a little odd, although understandable given its cost and somewhat limited application due to its slow F ratio.

I suspect it might certainly hold its own in the company of mass-produced 12" OTAs?

[Dennis]

Hi Matt

I haven’t done any side-by-side tests between the C9.25 and the M180, and since I acquired the M180, the seeing in Brisbane has not been as good as it was when I used the C9.25 to image Jupiter. So, based on more of a feeling than hard data, my impressions are as follows:

On double stars, the M180 is clearly superior to my C9.25. The M180 behaves more like a refractor in that it delivers pin point stellar images with nice diffraction rings and good background contrast, whereas my memories of the C9.25 seem to be filled with more bloated stars and a more greyish, smeared background.

On Jupiter, the C9.25 seems to produce “better” images. That is, the detail still looks nice and sharp at a greater image scale than if I tried to pump the M180 with Barlow’s to achieve the same image scale. So, the M180 simply loses out here in the light gathering department.

I am a little hesitant to commit the above in writing for fear of spooking you! The impressions are just that; a series of impressions and memories as I have never done a side-by-side shoot out. Interestingly enough, Robert, who sold me the M180, when asked about the C9.25 vs. M180 for hi-res planetary work, seemed to favour the C9.25 which is why he parted with the M180. Anyhow, the M250 is a huge light bucket compared to the M180 so image scale should be less of a problem and certainly the Tak mirrors are razor sharp.

When the seeing is poor, say 3 to 5/10, it affects the M180 as much as the C9.25 so there is no real advantage for either OTA under those conditions.

Personally, having now owned an M180, VC200L and C9.25, I would instantly choose the M250 over a 12inch SCT, but I am more of a refractor person rather than a DOB person, which certainly biases my decisions.

Cheers

Dennis

[Omaroo]

Matt - just buy the damn thing will you! I've never known anyone who has swayed back and forth so much on decisions to buy telescopes! :rofl: I still have the LX200GPS if you're interested! ;)

Here - planetary on the M250: http://web.gccaz.edu/~pmaxson/planets.htm (http://web.gccaz.edu/%7Epmaxson/planets.htm)


Seriously though.... I'd love a Tak Mewlon - just that I think that I'd go full-hog and get the 300. Would anything smaller than the 300, after the 9.25, satisfy to the degree you're after?

Cheers
Chris

[matt]

As you rightly point out Dennis, the greater the aperture...the greater the resolving power. That's a given and a most unvarying fact.

I guess it comes down to what you (or I) want to achieve?

Do I want to compete with the likes of Damian or Mike. Even the word 'compete' leaves me cold. That's not what I'm in this for. So the answer is a resounding 'no'. Not that I could. Those guys are something else and their work is exemplary.

I have never professed to be anything more than a hobbyist (at best) and certainly a run-of-the-mill planetary imager.

However, like most people, I am still keen to produce images which make me happy and of which I can be proud and would like to think the extra $$$$ might be rewarded with an improvement over what the 9.25 is capable of.

I'm not looking to set the world on fire, nor am I looking to re-write the book on planetary imaging.

If the M250 delivers a 20-30% improvement on the resolution and 'quality' of my images and it proves to be a great scope that I can 'grow into' over the next few years...then that'd make me happy.

Cheers

[matt]

:rofl::rofl:

Well...I'm not sure that's completely accurate. Plenty of folk have asked plenty of questions about all sorts of equipment they are unsure about.

It's a big decision...involving a fair bit of coin (for me, anyway)...and it's just about making the right decision.

Nothing wrong with putting the question/s out there, right? That's what it's all about.

It's OK, though...I know you're just having a laugh. It just seems that way because I've asked the question on a few scopes separately over an extended period of time instead of asking about multiple scopes in the one post.

I'm just taking my time on this. Have spent first and thought later on too many occasions in the past!!

I'd love to buy the M300...but the budget isn't quite there.

Cheers, mate.

PS - thanks for the link.

[rumples riot]

For images taken with the 250 Mewlon go to PVOL. There are plenty of people in Hong Kong, and Asia who are doing fine work with them.

That said the 250 is not a big enough of a step up to get an increase in imaging resolution. Visually it will be superb, but imaging is all about aperture. You get more data and can image at greater focal lengths and hence more detail with larger aperture. That is why I went with the C14 and the SDM in the end.

[matt]

Chris...you are an evil man.

The seed has been planted.

I'm gonna get a quote on a 300:scared: Just to see what sort of dosh we are talking about.

Problem is...I'd then need to upgrade from my EQ6...:(

$$$$

[Omaroo]

Uh oh.... :whistle:

If you need the extra cash - talk to nice Mr Bank. i know that I'd regret taking such a huge step up without making it to the top, as it were. If you're going to get into hock - it may as well be good 'n proper. :D

[ving]

i was just following instructions... he wants us to "talk him out of it" :D

[Alchemy]

Well as he WANTS us to try to talk him out of it i will try to oblige

1 paying for an expensive brand name
2 small aperture gain
3 Why is it at a very nice price (caveat emptor)
4 Head to head would it beat a sub 1000 dollar 12 inch newt !
5 For the same money you could purchase a verynice mount
6 Whats wrong with the 9.25 almost legendary optics
7 have you used the 9.25 to its full potential
8 perhaps a ccd camera instead mmmm....
9 perhaps another larger scope the taks not the only option.
10 what about an observatory, no more setting up etc
11 have you paid off your credit card

...i could go on......

[spearo]

Hi Matt!
what a crack up!
"Talk me out of it" !!!:rofl:

I think what you really need is what's known in the business as a good "rationalisation" for the purchase. Something to soothe the Superego (Freudian terminology) which is trying to control your desire/impulse to get the dream scope.

I'm here to help (but don't let anyone know i did this):

1) you can justify the purchase by telling your loved one it's to make nicer photo dedications to show the strength of your feelings

2) it's basically a risk free process since you know you could return it if it's not functioning as it should and you know and trust the source (I'm guessing here...)

3) it's basically cost neutral (well potentially) since you could easily resell it if you needed to and we all know great quality scopes hold their value nicely

4) think of how it will eat away at you to not get it. Never knowing if it might have given you that 20 or 30% improvement you are really capable of, this would torment you and make you miserable, might even drive you to drink... think of all the money you'll save on NOT having to buy all that alcohol;)

5) if you get it it will make you happy and we all know happy people are more productive people. This might mean a promotion at work, better salary, maybe even enough money to ungrade the mount and put the lot in an observatory. Basically it represents an investment in your career and your future

I could go on but i think you should just give it a go.

Argument 2 and 3 above are probably the saner one I can proffer.

And, on a selfish note, I'd LOVE to have a looksy through it myself someday!

Let us know when you've decided.

cheers
frank

[okiscopey]

I was reading up about the Mewlons recently. Among glowing reviews, the only negative I've come across is the reportedly limited back-focus of the 250. (I don't know if this applies to the 300.)

The discussion below came from the Tak Yahoo group. It looks like you can fit in a camera, adaptive optics unit and a reducer if you have the right bits and pieces, but I haven't been able to ascertain how difficult this is in reality.

I suppose you've looked into this. Has anyone any more info? If it's not a problem, I'd be keen on an M300 myself.


[UncensoredTakGroup] Re: Mewlon 250

"Well I have had my Mewlon 250 on its EM200 mount for several months now. It tracks perfectly and has tremendous optics. It is a very good visual scope and is fine for prime focus photography where the camera is placed right at the visual back of the telescope.

My biggest concern about this telescope is that compared to my Celestron 9.25" scope it has very little backfocus. I find this to be a really major problem."

"Hi Paul: I forgot to address the back focus so called problem with the
mewlon-250. It all depends on how much stuff you want to hang from the mewlon. There is a low profile adapter for the mewlon-250 for less than infinity and also equipment trains. I have the mewlon-250 and FS-102 on a NJP mount. Also the secondary can be lowered a little closer to the primary for focusing with the longer equipment trains."

"Hi Rick, my push set screws on the secondary are almost flush with the top of the ring. I have a mewlon-250 also and use the optional cassagain focuser/rotator, I seem to have a lot of back focus. The secondary height will help with more back focus, the closer to the primary the more back focus."

"Takahashi makes a shorter version of the 2" ocular adapter that is
about an inch shorter than the standard version."

"I had the same issue with the lack of back focus on my M-250. I
couldn't get my ST-10, AO-7, and reducer setup to come to focus.
After speaking to Fred at TNR, I moved the secondary/focuser unit
back a bit. With this adjustment, and a custom made short ocular
holder, I am able to get enough back focus have my ST-10, AO-7, and
reducer come to focus. I would suggest that you talk to Fred before
making any adjustment to the secondary."

"http://www.astrofactum.de/Astrofactum/index.htm

Using this clamp you will get about 22mm more back focus. It is
designed to hold havy binoviewer or ccd camera equipment in place.
Heiko."

[Dennis]

Just for info’ on my Mewlon 180, I can achieve focus with the following.

Mewlon 180 threaded back (naked with everything removed).
Moonlite motorised focuser attached directly to naked Mewlon threaded back.
Moonlite native 2” focuser exposed (i.e. 1 ¼ reducer removed).
Takahashi x0.8 Reducer/Corrector. (Push fit into Moonlite focuser).
Tak TCD0012 adapter/spacer to connect T-Thread on CFW8A to Tak x0.8 Reducer/Corrector.
SBIG CFW8A colour filter wheel.
SBIG ST7E CCD camera.

Cheers

Dennis