Hi ho, hi ho, its off to vote we go (on Nov 24)

[tornado33]

Yes the PM has finally announced the date, nov. 24

[h0ughy]

well there you go, we be sailing on the ship of fools, Captian Johnny or that blaggard ruddy fellow. Either way we have no rudder

[manny]

Descions,descions, who do I want to get fleeced by?:shrug:

Manny

[fringe_dweller]

vote joh bjelke Howard - he will keep unskilled/semi skilled wages low! err or was that interest rates - I certainly know who is the biggest fattest LIAR! of the two

[fringe_dweller]

and I'm looking forward to seeing a banana bender in kiribilli! who's for that!?

[ving]

my poor step brother is getting married on that day... i guess everyone will be getting dressed up to vote now :)

[GTB_an_Owl]

I reckon they have a hide making it the same date as my tennis xmas party

wonder if i can get johnnie to change his mind

geoff

[xelasnave]

Wonderful but what a surprise... I had no idea he was even thinking of such a thing.
How are they going to do it a show of hands???
alex

[vindictive666]

whooooppeeeeee :P:P:P:P:P:P:P:P:P:screwy::screwy:: screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy:

[manny]

Sung to the tune of the Beverly Hillbillies

This is the story of a man named John a poor politician trying to win an election and then one day he was shooting for some votes when up to his mind came a bubbling thought votes I need votes Indeginous votes.So Costello he said Kirribilli is the place Iwant to stay so they loaded up the rolls and moved to Kirribilli --House that is swimming pools,bbq's.private jets.
The Kirribilli politician.

If you remember the hillbillies you are almost due a pension. :lol:

Enjoy life
Manny

[xelasnave]

Still its a great system..we get to vote for who we dont like.. and when they get in we can complain knowing no one will listern.

I think they should publish a list of the mandates they say they had when they presented their platform... both sides.

I think Mr Howard will surprise everyone and get back... poor Mr Rudd has been campaining for a while now and now finds the race has only just begun...he must be near outta breath.
Good luck to all in the game... may someone win...

If a draw do they get extra time???

alex

[space oddity]

Tweedle dee or tweedle dum, both of 'em are a pain in the ... Always a problem when someone asks you to vote for THEM:shrug:. Anyway, the important descisions seem to be made to placate the more ratbag minorities. Remember the christmas a couple of years ago that wasn't? Us white Aussies were put off our game because we were worried that some extreme minority might complain:screwy:. We need an anti bleeding hearts party. What do we want?, bleeding hearts get nicked, when do we want it ? NOW !( chant this repeatedly till you go hoarse.) Alas , I have no political stomach, is there anyone out there who can help the cause? Do note, 75 % of ALP canditates are former trade union officials or ALP staffers(the ones that aren't are in unwinnable seats) and the trade union movement is the major backer - think about it. I know which "tweedle" I'm getting stuck with. Maybe the loony party will win, it is full moon:lol:

[fringe_dweller]

oh space oddity love that phoney impartiality, gee your a master of the spin :lol:

anyone taking bets for how before this thread is locked? :rofl::rolleyes::screwy:

[fringe_dweller]

its funny spaceoddity, but I equally worry about a frontbench/government who almost 100%

LAWYERS!!

and btw lots of those ex union officials hold qualifications, some such as ,,guess what

LAWYERS!! :rofl:

[xelasnave]

It is a clear night anyone with any sense is outside looking up.
As moderators are choosen because they are smart they will be outside I guess. So if it clouds over and someone comes in it could get locked then.

But discussing our election has little to do with politics.. such a discussion is really about marketing and image... no one really understands what each party has in mind for the future..I mean they dont so why should a mere voter have any idea.

And it is always about minorities..that is what democracyis all about.. the unions are a minority, the rich are a minority.. in fact our society is so diverse we all fit a minority...we all here are in a minority that like astronomy... and the good thing about our system is if we as a minority wishes to improve our lot we are in the only system that will allow it.

Minorities are good, unions are good, rich folk are good and even astronomers are good... ok I will go all the way..politicians are good.

Elections are good ...so all is good..and thats good.
Good night
alex

[xelasnave]

It is good that our politicians come from that background...

They are happy to fight with words not guns.

I think if you look at so many systems around the world you will notice that power changes hands by battle...in effect... new leaders come from military backgrounds... not all that good.

Can you imagine what deep water we would be in now if our leaders were from a military background... your law becomes very different, your liberty becomes very different, everything becomes very different.

Personally I would like our politicians to have been engineers so something real could be done.. bridges etc... or maybe they should all be ladies with families or astronomers... but this little fact has a great bearing on the nature of the nation.
alex

[fringe_dweller]

i know lawyers are the good guys Alex ;) but dont they often have to defend the indefensible? I would hope there's the occassional economist thrown in here and there?, theres the medical doctors - how that automatically qualifies them to run a country/society oh sorry i mean an economy err drive a ferrari round the corners somethibng something look out for the curves matey! arrggg
is there a prime ministers uni course i havent heard of?

[fringe_dweller]

werent the democrazies a party made up of school teachers including the arch villian the gst school marm?

[xelasnave]

I was a lawyer once. It is a profession that opens your eyes as to how folk can be difficult.

And you are forced to read heaps of stuff so that is a plus.
Teachers are good..ex teachers make the best sales people and selling is part and parcel of the political reality.
The trouble is we at the bottom of the pile think if we were in power we would house the homeless , cure the sick, feed the hungry etc but politics is all about managing vested interests...that is not easy and finally does not always see good things done..or sensible projects undertaken.

The next election will be fought on "good leadership" I hear in the news. One would think that was a given but now it is an issue.

AND the reality is the quality of leadership is confined to managing the mob you rule..the party.. being slick enough not to get nailed.
Mr Howard has a cast iron back and for that he has my respect and sympathy.
Imagine being the leader of a party..everyone is in the party because they finally want to be boss.. If I were Mr Howard or Mr Rudd I would be more worried about my army than that of the other side.

Fortunately in this country the parties are so close in their ideas things are not too bad. And we are indeed fortunate that each really have to go along to a large degree with the concerns of the people ... and to have a media that tells us what our concerns are makes it even better.

alex

[Outbackmanyep]

Whatever happens, when you see those boring Govt commercials on TV just remember thats our money being wasted !

[vindictive666]

yep and then on the actual day the amount of trees (in Paper) you get handed to toss in bins as well :)

[Ric]

And there still 6 more weeks of it to go :scared:

They could spend some of that taxpayer money and try and buy my vote. an ED100 would do just nicely at the moment :whistle:

Cheers

[avandonk]

I was handing out how to vote cards some years ago. And I pointed out to to my opposite 'enemy' party worker that the ballot boxes are cardboard and the 'lock' a cable tie. The poll workers were all diligent and the whole count at the booth I was at could be seen by anyone who wanted to. This really shows how healthy our democracy is. It is easy to be cynical. It is much harder to create and build for the future.

There was no implied violence or guns, no deaths etc that do plague some other 'democracies.'

We are indeed fortunate that we can cast our vote with no more than annoying election campaigns. So it is our duty to think carefully and vote for the party or person of your preference.

If you don't like the quality of the candidates then consider standing yourself. Or support someone you think is better.

It is no good complaining, get involved if you want to make a difference.

It makes for a much healthier democracy.

Bert

[fringe_dweller]

well said bert (and Alex earlier) yes we i wish more people appreciated this excellent democracy, as some of us do, the alternatives are very depressing indeed, as mentioned.
as for running yourself, well, you have to have led a pretty saintly life these days, like Howard live at home till your 34, umm being a bible thumpin fundie christian, or the EB's and their ilk will dredge something up with their army of private eye's, rather sad to me, people who have lived a little have no chance. certainly no atheists should try it!

[avandonk]

I AM an Atheist thank GOD!

Bert

[GrahamL]

Roll on nov 25..Ill people have to wait for medical treatment ?.. Our country can't provide a decent skills base to meet comunity demands?.. and its 34 (bill)of tax cuts today ?..both the first two are core things govts are supposed to get right ... and both parties are no differant in regard ..IMO.

The ME over WE mentality of society today is largely to blame I think.
By all means get involved but for me its two of the same telling us to
"bend over and we'll drive you home ".. is just so plain dull !!

[Starkler]

As much political discussion should be avoided I just have to say that there IS a clear point of difference between the parties, and its not a trivial one, so i cannot agree with those who say they are all the same :whistle:

[fringe_dweller]

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

and lol nightstalker, yes it's drunken sailor time! roll up roll up for the pork barrelling orgy - much more entertainment to come yet methinks :)

Geoff, very true, in some area's of policy, that affect, no small amount of people, are gaping chasms, it probably would be a little disingenuous to say they are identical in every single area, i suspect. :whistle:

accumulated baggage would be one big difference just for starters?, to the turn a blind eye brigade maybe not :lol:

[cahullian]

We do live in a great democracy with lots of contradictions. Who would ever imagined a Labour leader having more money than a Liberal one. Don't you just love it? he he he

Gazz

[CoombellKid]

Yeah that's for sure...

I find it amusing that the Liberals and there supporterslike to harp on about
the ALP having 70% trade unions types in the masses, and the scary thing
that will be if they win FEAR!!! SCARE!!! FEAR!!! where as the Liberals have
big business types in there masses, probably why they dreamed up Work
Choices.

regards,CS

[acropolite]

I have to agree, they're two entirely different flavours of the same corruption.....I'm voting for the greens.:tasdevil:

[Geoff45]

If there was an anti light pollution party I'd vote for it.

[fringe_dweller]

hehe ya got to love those 'business unions' Rob,, love their ad with the brutish thugs from the dressmakers union storming in :lol:

strangest thing is unions havent been a big problem since the 70's/80's and the accord era,... living in the past?

I also find it odd that no one seems to object to the police/ambos/nurses/teachers/public servants ect having unions - but ordinary minimum wage workers - nope - guess it has to benifit them in someway.

are the greens above it all Phil?, immune to corruption? they havent even tested in that area yet?

[xelasnave]

I think the demonising of rich, the poor, the unions, the employer groups should be stopped.

We do not condone radial vilification in this country yet entertain "class" vilification.

I guess I am the only person to see this goes on ..but what a sad thing it is when Unions are held up as a demonic group... what a sad thing it is when employer groups are held up as a demonic group... what a sad thing it is when those on social security are held up as a demonic group.

This is class hatred... can no one understand that there are classes in our society... that is not wrong it is the way things are... but to sit back and happily let one class hate another I can not do.

See this for what is is... nasty.
Why hate unions for example ..they only want to get a better lot for their group...why hate employer groups ..they only want to get a better deal for their group... why do we need class hatred..it is evil.

This is the calling of one class to hate another...union bashing..uping the employer groups, coming down on the unfortunates of the social rubbish heap.

Unions are workers..why hate them.

Business men are having a go and for the most part honest in their view of themselves...why hate them.

Those having to accept the dole rather than a real job really have littel choice....why hate them.

Single mothers have found themsleves in an unhappy situation ..why hate them.

This class hatred is discusting and if you find yourself hating another class stop and think what you are doing... this should be stamped out.

Who put this hatred in your heart..do you really think it was your idea???

It is silient and sinister and is not needed by anyone other than those seeking to gain power by calling upon you to hate someone else.

It is no different but more disgusting than racial hatred.

Dont hate anyone for their class ..
do not be guilty of class hatred and look hard at those who insite you to be this way.

You dont need to bash unions or tree huggers to prove a point.

Anyone who resorts to this should be feared as they are evil.

Fear those who call upon you to hate and fear someone else...they use this stategy for cementing their place above reasonable people.

alex

[xelasnave]

The reason why these types of threadsx get closed is because folk surcumb to hatred..you dont need hate in your life..get rid of hatred..
If there is one thing I take from the teachings of Jesus Christ is that we should..nay must..love our fellow man.
Compassion is a wonderful quality, the practice, giving to the user a peace above anything durgs or self serving selfish attitudes can come close to.
alex

[fringe_dweller]

lil' Johnny started it! :whistle:

I am but just a humble reactionary, fighting fire with fire, not an idealogue fundamentalist!
they are making the rules! I have to play within their framework?

sooo does that mean i cant even hate collingwood!? :help:

I have never been in a union voluntarily (or a member of any party), i was in the notorious BLF (remember those days?) for a while, as that was the only way to get the job i wanted, and I was never impressed with the uninterested self serving biker officials I encountered daily. And also I hated the musicians union with a passion once upon a time back in the 80's, they were an outrageous scam.
But unfortunately, I still think they are a neccassary evil in a modern egalatarian society. as leaving everything entirely up to market forces (ie put the fox in charge of the chickens) is just the flipside of rampant unionism - whatever happened to the centre based politics? i never thought i would see the conservatives become so radical! it used to be the left that was the radicals! lol
I feel sorry for all the small l liberals voters, they must be feeling set adrift

[fringe_dweller]

its all about JH being able to write on his tombstone
'here lies the mighty glorious leader the dragon slayer who killed the evil commie unions, and thereby removing the power base of the ALP, and taking us to a one party system, like the beloved asian 'democracies'. RIP

[fringe_dweller]

maybe they just call it the 'golden rule' party

as the old saying goes
'he who has the gold, makes the rules'

[Karls48]

If I find any “Mickey Mouse Party” on the ballot, I’m going to volte for it. They will not get anything done (as the rest of them) but at least it is going to be fun.

[xelasnave]

Well I feel my point as to one side hating the other and the relevance of class is lost.

I merely say this..anyone who calls upon you to hate another social strata should be regarded as evil... we are all in the one country..but presumably to say this will be seen as nationalistic and therefore maybe right wing..it has little to do with that..it is merely a way to regard other humans and have respect for what has made them as you would find them if you truly understood their motivations...it is not the basis of the religion upon which this country says it is based upon...

I say that irrespective of your beliefs in a supreme divine entity the teachings of the one who is presented as God in that religion tells us one thing above all other points raised..we should love our fellow man.. I do not believe in God or the Christian religions general premise but I feel that the commonality that is preached could be regarded as having merit..certainly it beats the proposition of hatred which is all I seek to identify and cast out....

but it is unfortunate if Mr Howard seeks to have us hate unions....those who rebel again unions have their reasons and I recognise bad practices have taken place..they have been in part in response to the bad practises they seek to avoid from the other side..

I think it is unfortunate if unions seek to have us hate those who engage in the enterprise that gives so many jobs... it is the individuals who in each group may be bad but to hate the class is wrong..very wrong as most folk are decent and honest...workers have taken advantage of bosses and bosses have taken advantage of workers but this should not be seized upon that a group can be hated for the actions on an individual.

Those who do bad should be cast out be they in a union or be they in a employers group...

Who here is not a worker and can not recognise that without Unions we would be little more than slaves... who here can not see that without free enterprise and the freedom of those with enterprise to prosper would leave us no better than an ant like society.

All I say is this..class hatred is a tool of the evil and should be regarded by all as something that does no good for any one except those calling upon us to hate another class to which they say we do not belong, there by presenting themselves as our saviour..when they are simply using hate to place themselves in positions of power.

Hatred and misunderstanding takes us to war.... why seize upon hatred to justify going to war for example when it has only to do with money and the chase for power of control...follow the money and you will see why someone asks us to hate another.

If you hate unions ask why..if you hate the boss ask why..are all that belong to each class so bad or is it an impression one has fallen to because of the more successful propaganda waged by one over the other.

There is good in everyone and yet there is this propensity to focus on a scape goat... not good.. this is most evil.

My uncle was killed by the Japanese and cruelly so..yet can I hold them all responsible...I bet if we faced another war there would be those who would dig this up... not nice digging in old wounds when all that will come is hate in response to a sad loss beyond control of those we would be now asked to hate...

Who has not had a bad experience with a union or with a boss... why pick upon such ..only to develop the hatred they seek to capitalise upon... evil just evil.

Can these folk profess to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ or do they follow Satan...

Love your fellow man means having respect for where he comes from and the pressures that cause him to act the way he does... try walking in someone else's shoes for a mile or two before you condemn him.

alex

[xelasnave]

Small L's have been manipulate to allow what is before them... It is unfortunate as they were once thought to be the thinkers and yet now they do little to rein in the hate that the party builds upon so often.

alex

[Starkler]

Alex is quite right. Why hate when you can do something better ...like..... cast your vote :D

[ballaratdragons]

I'm going to Vote for . . .



hmmm, my keyboard doesn't seem to work on the keys I need :P

[xelasnave]

I recall a movie... the memory is dim but I recall... "none of the above" was the call.
Although I dont subscribe to a religious persuasion I can not help but think maybe JC was on the money.
I reject the hate and fear what would happen if we all followed JC's teaching.
alex

[fringe_dweller]

I respect were your coming from Alex, I wish more people thought like you mate :)
and I count myself lucky that I live in a country were I can shoot my mouth off and bad mouth/question political figures/groups and the worst that probably can happen is people think your idiot tosser/wrong whatever.
But I understand amongst some new legislation that JH has in store, if re-elected, probably rubberstamped in 5 minutes with little time for scrutiny like most stuff is lately with the abused senate majority, is something about comments like mine on blogs and forums criticising the government(s) will be an act of sedition - so I am enjoying it while it lasts!
i think also criticising a vendor or business/lots of stuff on the net will be against the law.
and your right I am angry/hating, i am angry at the voters who gave these nutters carte blanche for a few pieces of silver, total control of the senate (wthell were they thinkin - were they even thinking?) and strangley trusted them to deliver on undeliverable promises, fell for the most inane bs i have evr heard in my life, and we all have to live with the consequences. blind freddy could tell what was comin, but no not the australian electorate.
i have heard that democracy is overrated, well after this little experience of misanthropic personality cult totalatarian dictatorship, i am shaken as to aussie values, i dont trust em anymore
its not my vote i'm worried about Geoff :scared:

[xelasnave]

Well there is method in my madness..I hide behind an image of being crackpot in the hope that I am considered harmless... and I am.. I certainly never feel so passionate that I would take any action what so ever... I present my views so those who don't get it can write me off... I do not wish to be their target..they will be better chasing someone who will throw real spokes in their wheels.

I study history and history explains so much...

We are in for a very tuff time for various reasons. Restriction of free speech is a forerunner to involvement in war..war is necessary to maintain economies.. we are being programed for war ... we will have a big war sooner than most believe.
So with that I can be classed as a nut... and those who may on first impression feel I may present a threat can write me off... I like it that way.

And in fact I now enjoy a level where I understand why things must be the way I see them... for all the nonsense good can be found simply in the concentration of resources ... I wont go on it would take a couple of books I will not write to explain what I mean.

But we must prepare for class hatred over the time we must wait to see who gets the top job.

I really love the system it is so predictable... and of course personal freedoms will go... and still murders will get "get out of jail cards" while foreign policies are dictated by a mentality that guided the crusades...they were presented as hate but it was always about gold and land.

That's the way things go I don't see it as good or bad ..things just are.


alex



alex

[AJames]

Odd observations and some questions.

Why does the Labour Party call itself the Labor Party without the "u"?

Even my spell checker writing this post says it is with the "u", and I thought in Australia we use the British version of the spelling.

If the word "colour" is correct instead of the Americanised "color", then why not "Labour" instead of their usage of "Labor"?

Is it all an American plot, or does Johnny and Kev think they're running for the Aussie Pres?

Secondly. If we live in a so-called free democracy, and we are supposed yo have free will to choose what we want to do, then why is it compulsory for every Aussie to vote on polling day?

Thirdly, if you want to post a postal vote, why are you expected to add and pay for a postage stamp when you register to get a ballot paper? Yet when you get the ballot paper and send it back it is postage paid?

AJames

[AJames]

Yeah your absolutely right.
But the other biggest restriction in Australia of all, which you don't mention, is the introduction of the archaic sedition laws due the "war". You speak against the government and you could end up serving more time in jail than for just murdering someone. Surely this is the best way to legally silence someone.
Perversely, while the Johnny and Kev are going hammer and tong with their phoney tit-for-tat dirty politics, smear and - surely their own bad behaviours are already putting the Parliament into disrepute. Isn't this also just another example of sedition? :scared:

[The reality with the dirty politics at the moment, perhaps SEDITION isn't the real problem here. Perhaps what we REALLY need for them all is some SEDATION ! Perhaps then they would not be acting like Naughty School Boys and Girls and embarrassing all of us?]

AJames

DEFINITION of Sedition: Conduct or speech inciting people to rebel against the authority of a state or monarch.

[xelasnave]

The language evolves often under the influence of other nations we deal with:)...it was not long ago that English took in a host of words from the French...because they were the rulers of the English:eyepop:...go back only 600 years and you would not be understood if you wanted to have a chat in England...in fact the number of words that are French in origin is staggering...

we do not now say ...Why call this mutton when clearly it is sheep:shrug:...assuming sheep is a real English word.

New words appear everyday and so the language evolves... why hang onto a determination that there should be no change when it can not be stopped.

We can not but help to be influenced be a nation that is so entwined in our culture.

As to spelling it evolves also ... I used colour and now use color even if I am color blind... and what a poor phrase that is I am not blind and simply see colour different to others..maybe I see more maybe I see less.

Why even call the Labour/Labor party such when clearly they also have evolved to represent a broader more diverse group of interests... developers are hardly ones notion of "Labour" or "Labor" yet they provide I suspect the bulk of contribution to that party;)..and to the other party;);).

It has only to do with vested interests and their attempt to gain the edge.

We make a fundamental incorrect assumption that democracy caters to the notion of free..it carters to minority and such is subject to corruption by minority... but really if our opinions mattered parties would not claim mandates as if they were clearly understood by the electorate and were fundamental in the choice one makes when giving ones vote and control by "the people".

Parties tell us crap with the real plans well hidden on the basis that we are too ignorant to understand the "wider picture".

The Greeks ..the installers of democracy extended democracy only to a privileged few really yet from their approach we write in the notion of freedom.
One is only free to support the general drift of public opinion step outside that and you will find little tolerance of freedom.

Free is something we think we have and in some regard we do but finally it is the law and the norms that restrict absolute freedom.

As to stamps etc that is just the way the mop flops really:shrug:.

alex:):):)

[AJames]

In the arguments towards any defence of politics and the idea of representative democracy, is still always is based that their actual need and existence is held solely in the hands of the people. This is the grand illusion.
As the idea of democracies comes from the original Athenian Greeks, where the people voted on their elected officials and on many social issues using black and white coloured stones, which were placed in a large pot. Simply the majority would prevail - everyone equal (or guilty) for the decision. The problem in a short time became corruption, where artificial votes were manufactured or individuals would vote many times.
It is interesting that the concept of democracy, we have the basic democratic right for all individuals to influence the future for themselves and even towards the whole species - only to find change is really based more on the decisions of only a fractional minority of elected officials at the immense cost of sacrificing real input into the process of the future direction and course of the democracy.
In my view, the central problem with today's democracy(s) is the huge reality gap between the elected officials and the people who have elect them. For me the given representation by any election process is a two-edged sword. Only a few will represent the whole, but once they are voted in, they become the prime sources (and targets) of the conflict, because they are hidden away from the real desires of those who voted for them, and are completely isolated for those that voted against them.
It has always seemed odd to me that anyone not believing in these basic premises will be quickly swept under the carpet - immediately labelled as; Ie. A communist, socialist, extremist or troublemaker. Yet it will always first be the politician, who in defence of his politics, will immediately point-out the diametric view, stating the worst case scenario, being extremes like anarchy, political decay and loss of a particular way of life. In Australia's case this is the presumed demise of the whole Westminster System.
Such views are clearly portrayed this way because any kind of political change would likely transfer the ambitions and power base held by the incumbent politicians (and their parties), and place more direct control and choice among the electors. Defence for the established political systems given by many parliamentary bodies (or any elected body), is that many decisions are often either needed to be made quickly (Ie. Economics, natural disasters or wars, etc.) or that some matters must be decided in the whole population's best interest (Crime, health, ethics, etc.).
Conflicting with this is that political power cannot be held in perpetuity. For politicians to survive, decisions also have to be towards their power base - the party, the branch of the party and the people - else they cannot implement there policies nor be re-elected. Unfortunately, the paradigm of the party-based system also means the person in not the "best man" or "best skilled" for the job, but who happened to be savvy enough or had the most charisma to get nominated to contest the election. Thus another failure of democracy is that many of the very best possible representatives who could contribute more for their country, have overrun by those that are either power grabbing perennial politicians or nominees from a sometimes biassed party-political process. Again this process overrides control directly by the people.
What worries me is that in Australia, few are even willing to debate or challenge the current policies. Ie. The sedition laws or restrictions of freedom, liberty or even assembly.
We are all quite literally happy to "bow-down" to the dictates of the few we do elect, based only on the deluded premise that those we elect will always act in our best interest - like an adult holding the hand of a child as they cross the road. It always seems that when the voters get complacent it always follows that there is an erosion of people's democracy and freedom - governments imposing their will for the "best interests of the population". The government views this - if they are not interested we must be doing the right thing - so we will go a little further.
In reality though, more often than not, voting really only is "bowing down" to the policies following the party-line, favouring the dictates of those who are powerful enough to persuade or influence a group of like-minded people to follow certain policies. Although it is quite true that people are free to join parties, most never do, either because they often feel they do not have the capacity to formulate ideas, or that they don't have the time or the means of having influence to change things for the better - either for their community, party or country.
Such two-levelled democracy greatly weakens the individual's ability to change.
Another second significant failure is the wrongly implemented concept of the referendums - rules to change any policy. These referendums were supposed to enable changes to the Society or their rules, but have been neutered by requiring two-thirds and majority, flagrant division on party lines, and a population not being able to ask or decide on the question. Referendums instead of being are ultimately controlled by the parliament, and this is made worse by the politicians knowing how to exploit it. Ie. John Howard (and the Liberals) controlled the two referendum questions in November 1999 by asking the divisive and indirect question of some republican model ; instead of the vox populi question "Should Australia become a republic?" - then develop models of its adoption - and not the other way around.
One of the modern suggestions to solving all these problems is the so-called neo-democracies, a future availed in the uses of information and computer technology. In this world elections, referendums and polls are made by computer input via a unique personal identification signature - either by some password, identicard, using the individuals DNA coding or iris/fingerprint matching the voter to the vote. Advances in technology have the ability of making the process foolproof, but requires dedication by the Government to impliement it. As more of the population become proficient in using computers and media, they become more able to interact with the election process and can make real decisions towards the political process.

At least they have done this for the visually impaired voters.

Yet to the question; "Why call this mutton when clearly it is sheep..." works on many levels. However, the real answer here is that most of the 'sheep' are really 'lambs' going to the slaughter once very three years (and only when the ringmaster decides...


AJames

[xelasnave]

Mr AJames you are a very wise man.. be careful I think they have a law in mind for your kind.
Congratualtions on a very fine post.. brilliant from any view point.
alex

[fringe_dweller]

I think it was in the early 20th century, when there was a huge 'everything american' was in fashion, as it periodically is here, the brits are still 'labour ;)


I find this arguement extremly offensive and disingenous when I hear it constantly sprouted by neocons and the general conservatives, why is it such a burning issue to them, surely theres more important things? I dont hear people complaining they have to sit for their drivers licence, register their dogs, pay the rego on their car - why does the right wing side of politics constantly harp and dog whistle about this, why coz the right wingers are the biggest nutters and most passionate about control, and are always garaunteed to vote (not to mention the fundie bring on the apocaplypse so i can go to heavan religous nutters instructing/directing/ordering there flocks to do so, while the lazy handout commies are nursing their hangovers :P witness the US, more people voted for american idol than the national elections!





you could say why are the liberals called that!? when they are anything but 'liberal' in the US sense of the word



coz he's 'mean and tricky' and takes the electorate for mugs, he has been right so far



strangley that would involve the re-invention of the australia card by stealth, and they have in in the offing, but is on the backburner till after the election i believe - but your right, that would take the i cant drag my lazy arse off to the polling booth every 3 years (should be 4) crowd i got more important things than paying respect to what thousands of people died and struggled for in my name - oh but I can go to anzac day ceremomies! :screwy:

I agree with alex Your damn good AJames :thumbsup: impressive!

[fringe_dweller]

not to mention voting isnt actually compulsory - turning up to the pollinbg booth and getting your name ticked off is of course - just join a fundie cult - and you can get exemption? just ask leapin' johhny tracksuit, a few kickbacks no worries apocolypse on its way!

[tornado33]

Well said Bert. My family and I will make the 200 metre trip to our local Polling Place to vote without worring about being shot, or blown up, the worst we have to worry about is running the gauntlet of folks handing out "how to vote" papers.
Actually a mate of mine is planning to run for the seat of Charlton, though he will need to get his skates on and get all registered and signed up.
Scott

[fringe_dweller]

the eternal struggle, yin yang - just keep rotating the major parties folks, thats all I want - nice healthy democracy

I was wrong when i said i havent lived in personality cult before, twice in fact, once when younger in qld joh bjelke peterson era, which this federal era is starting to remind me a lot of - you know police state, erosion of civil liberties, you could get arrested for having a beard at one stage if i recall correctly,
I hear the same defense of such a type of government 'well he gets things done' while pointing to rampant develpments skyscrapers ect. i'm sure in 1930's germany they said the same thing, good ol adolf, 'he gets things done' cept he didnt get the brown paper bag?
and i lived in the Uk at the end of the thatcher era, and i recon WC is JH's poll tax, hopefully

[tornado33]

I should mention that Mr Howard turned down an offer for Australia to be admitted into the European Southern Observatory, giving us access to the Very Large telescope. Thats right , even though it would only cost a few million, to get access to the biggest telescope currently on Earth, now gone, thats sad.
Scott

[xelasnave]

mmm well I guess I could hate him for that... but I wont... such a turn down when all wonder how to get the community more science focused seems strange even to me...

But they know best... still we dont want our tax give back stopped..its all about giving Australians a fair share of the kitty... we have some cash lets blow it on stimulating the economy so interest rates will go up and the increase in prices can be offset by that handout...

I think I understand it now.

I was listening to the radio and it came up that someone had placed their vote up for sale..it was raised ..its this legal..the expert said it was illegal.
Another caller questioned...

If it is illegal to sell your vote why is it that it is not illegal that a party can buy our vote...

I dont know but it seems votes are being bought with the nice handout of money on would have thought could be used to fix some little things... hospitals maybe... but what do I know...they know best.

Still I dont hate them or the other side without hate one may have a chance of seeing ones own side has some faults that could be reasonably addressed one would hope.

Still why for the sake of a couple of million could we not take up that offer...
I could handle it if the money was spend on more pressing matters but surely the cash flow directed to Government adds for a week or so could have had us using the scope and associating ourselves with the cutting edge...
I know they are going to announce that we are building our own big scope...

alex

[ving]

vote one!
vote jesus! ;)

[xelasnave]

amen
alex