Enthusiatic Noob With a Celestron

[psyche101]

Hey Hey

I look forward to getting to know you all :)

I have always been very interested in astonomy, I bought a small telescope when Haley's came by, got disapointed, never had the time to follow it up further, untill recently. The skies have always held my imagination, now I'd like to get up close and personal. I was lucky enough to stumble on quite a bargain - so much of one my wife did't complain at my purchase of a Celestron Nexstar4GT with Skyalign. After all, we do have young children, and this is educational! ;)


Herin lies my problem, much enthusiasm, no experience.

I was lucky enough to have it when we recently had a the lunar ecplipse. I found it magnificent, yet I find the Moon never disapoints. Always a new crater, a new shadow. I have 25X and a 10X eyepiece, and have manged to locate Jupiter and it's four moons on several occasions. I use the 25x to line up and then swicth to the 10x. I swear I can see the bands. My wife agrees.

Here starts my problems.
I have had much difficulty with the Skyalign database built in. I asked the NG shop where I purchased it, but they suggested I give it a miss and stick with manal slew on a slow rate. I'd like to use the software, being an amatuer, that was a big selling point to me. Any experienced Skyalign users able to help a noob?

which cascades into my next dillema.

Where the heck is everything? LOL. I seem to have no problem making some stars somewhat larger/brighter, and have found quite some that cannot be seen with the naked eye by just aimless roving, Jupiter as mentioned above, Venus (very cool cresent on my first night, quite impressed I didn't realise it showed as a crescent), great Moon watching, and that's it. I can read a plan, but I have never read a star chart. Can anyone ofer a link to some basics for getting the references right - grid lines and so forth?

Where can I find Mars, binary stars and all that cool stuff. Impatient I guess, and it is had not to be, is there a guide I should be following, can anyone help with the Skyalign software, or just some general tips?
I have contacted the NG shop for pricing on more powerful eyepieces, but since have discovered this wonderful invention called the barlow lens (I told you, ultra noob here - but eagre!) would that be a better purchase?

All offerings much appreciated in advance, I cannot wait to find Mars and Saturn, although from what I have already read here, I am gonna need to reset my alarm clock for Saturn! Glaxies, anything, maintenance care, whatever is on offer, I greatly appreciate anyone who can share their experience and hep my learning curve to become a short one. This world of the night sky is fascinating and beautiful!

See Ya All Real Soon I hope :D

[rmcpb]

Jack,

Welcome to IIS :)

Cannot help you with the software at all, just a dobber here. BUT as for finding your way around the sky start get a good planisphere (large Chandler type) and a set of binoculars. Use it to learn your way around the sky and to identify the constellations then progress to a simple sky atlas. Its a lot of fun and a relaxing time to lay in a deck chair with a pair of binocs and cruise the sky to locate objects you want to observe with the scope later in the session.

Keep looking up....

[psyche101]

Thanks for the quick reply.

I bought my son a pair from the NG shop, just the yellow ones with a compass in the end - not sure of the power but for some reasdon I keep thinking t is 25x like one of my eyepieces. Would this be sufficient for this exercise or should I save up for a very good pair?

[astroron]

:hi:and :welcome:.
Get in touch with the Southern Astronomical Society (SAS) they are in the phone book and you will get lots of help, you may even find there are members who live near you, and you can get together and get some advice
Cheers Ron:thumbsup:

[psyche101]

Thanks astroron

I might have a look for a website too for SAS. Neat name huh !

For any Queenslanders, I am in the Hinterland on the Gold Coast, Great spot, any neighbours in here?

Thanks for the welcome, I am sure I am going to really like it here.

[astro_south]

Jack

www.sas.org.au

:thumbsup:

[xelasnave]

Welcome from me.
Get out to a dark site and cruise along the Milky Way..its is right obove us early of an evening at the moment.. in fact directly above you is the center of our gallaxy..take your time and you will surprise yourself with what you will see.
In a dark site looking South you will notice two smudges..these are the large and Small Magellan clouds... real galaxies to survey.
Dont rush to buy stuff..astronomy is a little like fishing you can end up with a box of gear that you play with while waiting but do not often use when actually doing the business. If you must get a cheap 2x barlow..

It is a temptation to try for higher magnification but eventually you will find the lower the magnificantion produces the best views..my opinion which some may disagree with...but I say this..I spend more time using 80mm binos than the 12 inch.
Again welcome and post often.
alex

[mcross]

What sort of problems are you having with the Skyalign? I have this telescope and it usually aligns pretty well.
I would also agree with Alex about rushing in and buying accessories. I have a 2X Barlow and never use it. I don't know a lot about optics and eyepieces and maybe I'm missing something with the Barlows (?), but I have found that no combination with a Barlow gave me a better view that what I could get with the 10X.
But as has been mentioned before, try a few out if you can get a chance and then purchase it if you feel it gives you what you want.
Cheers,
Mark

[Ric]

Hi Jack and welcome to the forum, I hope you get your skyalign sorted out soon, it will make your observing a lot easier and enjoyable.

Cheers

[psyche101]

Thanks Ric and mcross, xelasnave. I will refrain, thanks very much for the tip. I am on Mt Nathan, in a large valley, so I seem to have a really good dark spot in my own backyard. There is a mountain tip just behind my place, I don't get the sunrise untill abut 25-30 mins after the rest of the coast, so even city spill does not seem to affect me, would it be affecting the atmosphere and my viewing?

Just a question, what would be the limit of my Nexstar? Could I easily see the rings of Saturn, the colours in a nebulae or Pluto's coulouring? How detailed can I see the moon, would I be able to distinguish the reflective mirrors left there. or would a close up on a large crater be it?

With my Skyalign, I have used the three star system several times, it says it has a lock, but when I point it to the moon or Jupiter, it skews way of somewhere else. Not sure what I am doing wrong, I even have the manual out there with me going step by step.

Thank you all very much for the replies. I will take the advice on.

[jjjnettie]

You sound in need of the yearbook
"Astronomy 2007"
You can buy it from any good bookshop. It has a very good set of All Sky Maps in the centre that you can remove and laminate.
Month by month, day by day, it will tell you everything you want to know about what's happening in the night sky.
Just about everyone in this forum uses this book to keep themselves in the know.
Next years edition will be coming out in a month or so. You can purchase them from IceInSpace for a small discount.
But you'll still get heaps of use if you buy this years edition.

[Glenhuon]

Welcome to the forum.
I agree with Janette on the Astronomy 2007, wouldn't be without it. Can't really help much with the goto software but just a thought, is it set for the southern hemisphere ? Sometimes the default is northern.

Cheers
Bill

[sejanus]

rather than do a skyalign can you do a normal 2-3 star alignment?

you can use astronomy software like celestia to learn the stars which will be helpful in picking alignment stars

[ballaratdragons]

I did a search for you on the Celestron 'Manuals Archive' website for the manual to help you sort out any problems.

Here is the manual for your model if you don't have one: http://downloads.celestron.com/Manuals/telescopes/nexstar_gt/11041_nx4gt/manual/11041_nx4gt.pdf

[mcross]

Ok Psyche, lets see where you are up to! If you are following the manual, you are probably doing all of these things, so I don't mean to sound patronising, but it doesn't hurt to double check!
I have found that, as long as the two stars aren't too close to eachother in the sky, this scope will align well with Two Star Alignment. You may wish to try this and see how it goes.
1. OTA (tube) is level with the ground (I use a spirit level)
2. OTA is pointing north (compass)
3. Date is in US format (month/day/year, not day/month/year)
4. Time Zone = 10
5. I don't know if you are selecting "Nearest City", I enter the latitude and longitude of where I am. You find this at this web site (http://www.csu.edu.au/australia/latlong/index.html). Make sure, however, you use their converter to convert their decimal figures into "minutes" and "seconds".
6. Check that the star that you are looking at is, in fact, the star that you are selecting by name using the hand controller. ie make sure you have the right name for the right star.
I think that's it - I may have overlooked something that someone else may pick up on.
As far as viewing goes, even at 25X you will see the rings of Saturn (although now is not the best time of year to be viewing Saturn). You will see some nebulae, but not with all the colours you see in all the great photos shown here! Star clusters look great through this scope. A favourite of mine is the Butterfly Cluster in Scorpius (M6 if you get your alignment sorted!). Galaxies are quite dim - difficult to sometimes see or make out, depending on your conditions. But you have to remember it is a 4" telescope and can only let in so much light!
Good Luck,
Mark :thumbsup:

[psyche101]

Thank you all very much, I have tried to reply a few times but got an error. Must have the window open too long. That'll teach me not to save progress.

ballaratdragons, thanks muchly, I have an electronic copy now.

Many thanks for the heads up on Astronomy 2008. I wil be looking out for this.
All these great replies got me thinking, so I did a little surfing and found and downloaded What's Up by Tammy Plonter - the free E Book, also I found Getting Started Sky Charts here -http://www.universetoday.com/whatsup/skychart-south.pdf 2007 of what's up here http://www.astrowhatsup.com/download-the-book/ andStellarium from Sourceforge. I also downloaded the October Skychart. The above seems quite easy to follow, and I am already starting to identify stars and planets, just been practising with a naked eye to start. I am going to drag the Celestron out tonight though, I am keen to have a closer look at Antares. Stellarium just rocks, beautiful graphics, easy to follow, easy to set, I am very impressed with it. Great as an introductory tool for me.
I will attempt a 2 star alignment, but it is only after the excellent help I have recieved here am I starting to understand where to look, and what for. That's why I have not attempted it before.
mcross, that just rocks, thank you so very much. Not patronising at all, I need baby steps. I really appreciate the effort.
My OTA - that's the big main tube right? That's the only thing labbeled similar in my parts list in the manual. I will check for level, I have one of those little round ones, it should be good for this. The date did trip me up to begin with, being a US format, but I caught onto that one, zone had me completely bewildered. I am sure I was using the default (7 I think). The manual was short on how to obtan this info. Many thanks for that - how does one know one's zone?
Used the website - I now have my Long/Lat, and might try that alignement method too. Unfortunately, I think Brisbane was my closest option for a city.
According to the manual, I did not have to know any stars to set up (biggest selling point), from the manual

Use the arrow buttons on the hand control to slew (move) the telescope towards any bright celestial object in the sky. Align the object with the red dot of the finderscope and press ENTER.
12
5. If the finderscope has been properly aligned with the telescope tube, the alignment star should now be visible inside the field of view of the eyepiece. The hand control will ask that you center the bright alignment star in the center of the eyepiece and press the ALIGN button. This will accept the star as the first alignment position. (There is no need to adjust the slewing rate of the motors after each alignment step. The NexStar automatically selects the best slewing rate for aligning objects in both the finderscope and the eyepiece).
6. For the second alignment object, choose a bright star or planet as far as possible from the first alignment object. Once again use the arrow button to center the object in the finderscope and press ENTER. Then once centered in the eyepiece press the ALIGN button.
7. Repeat the process for the third alignment star. When the telescope has been aligned to the final stars, the display will read "Match Confirmed". Press UNDO to display the names of the three bright objects you aligned to, or press ENTER to accept these three objects for alignment. You are now ready to find your first object.

This method says I don't need to know the stars, I envisioned it as the learning tool for me to get aquainted with the univerese, but it does not seem to be all that crash hot for that function.
But, to date I have not had a single success using this method. I will try others now, many thanks to the iceinspace members.

That's a great overview on what to expect as well. Many thanks again, I didn't want to expect too much, so it's nice to know what I can accomplish so I may set some targets. Sounds great and I looked up M6 on Stellarium last night to find it. It would seem Jupiter and Pluto are the only two planets in the current night sky (will be looking for Pluto tonight), do we get to see all the Planets from different parts of the year, or do I have to trave to another part of the world to observe. for instance:- Mars? I'd love to see if I can make out the polar caps.
I can see an 8" on the horizon though LOL.

Many thanks again to all, and thanks for the welcome's too.

[erick]

Hi, you'll see all the planets throughout the year - just look for them in Stellarium. This evening, Mars is rising around midnight and is in Gemini.

Pluto :scared: That'll be a bit of a challenge!

[niko]

My 2 cents worth

The Jewel Box just near the Southern Cross and the nebula in Orion are good targets for the beginner. Not sure of their NGC numbers but a net search should help there and you should be able to punch them into the SkyAlign software

hope it helps

niko

[erick]

I can help with some more info, niko:-

Jewel Box - NGC 4755, lovely, but I suspect you won't see it from SE Qld in the evenings at present - Crux is too close to the horizon down here and probably below horizon from SE Qld.

Nebula in Orion - M42 - yes, a good target, but not rising high enough until around 1:30am or later at present?

Try the lovely globular, 47 Tuc (NGC 104), then try the nearby smaller globular NGC 362. They should be good sights from soon after the sky goes dark.

Eric :)

[psyche101]

Thanks a million eric and niko.
I might give M42 a miss until the weekend or I'll never get to work ;)

I cannot wait to find Mars, I didn't see it in stellarium last night, just Jupiter and Pluto, which is why I thought I might have a crack at finding Pluto, but I was only expecting to see something like a small star? Will my 4" reach it? I will do a thourough search for Mars tonight.

I shall look up NGC 104 tonight and see if I can locate it. I have been keen to see a Galaxy, so this should be quite exciting.
Doing some reading up on astronmy, the Whirlpool Galaxy (Messier 51a, M51a?) sounds like a real viewing pleasure. Is that a viewable object with my equipment?

Saturday night, I'll be chasing the Jewel box no doubt, that sounds great. I found a good reference on it here http://www.seds.org/messier/xtra/ngc/n4755.html
Star cluster ey, seems I am going to rather enjoy this learning curve :)

I just looked up the Orion Nebulae on the net, I am sure looking forward to the Weekend now!! That looks great!! Thanks muchly for the heads up.

[erick]

Have fun! NGC 104 is a globular cluster, not a galaxy - but just beside it is a galaxy - the Small Magellanic Cloud! Naked eyes in a dark sky site is all you need for that - it won't all fit into your scope field of view!

But, for a galaxy through the telescope, look for NGC 253 in Sculptor. That will be well up in the sky mid to late evening and I think you'll see and enjoy that one.

Eric :)

[psyche101]

Hrrmzz

Worst part is you already told me that !! LOL So it is.

I am looking up NGC253 now so I can be ready for it tonight. Thanks erick.

[erick]

Looking forward to a report tomorrow! :thumbsup:

[psyche101]

Bah!!

Cloudy!! Google says a few more nights yet too.

Good chance to get aquianted with Stellarium, these planispheres look handy too, I might have a good look at those whilst I await clear skies.

EOR LOL ;)

[xelasnave]

With the Moon getting up it will be harder but explore the Milky Way ...just move the scope around and stop on what looks interesting... I had found most things well before I ever picked up an atlas... by the time I saw photos and the objects name I knew where it was... not to say that is the only way just saying you will be surprised what you stumble across...
good luck
alex

[psyche101]

Thanks xelasnave, I noticed lately the moon swinging up toward the denser part of the sky. I have done a little random observing. I didn' really know what to look for, so I figured I'll just look at all of it :)

Is it possible to view artificial satellites ? Like the ISS?

[psyche101]

Bit of Luck Saturday Might :)

The Clouds moved away to offer a couple of hours of strangely clear skies. I saw the stars coming out, decided to take the opportunity to tackle some deep sky viewing before the moon made it's appearance. Glad I did. I was rewarded with views of the Butterfly cluster and the Prolemy Cluster. I was amazed to see dark sky with a naked eye, peer into the eyepice and whamo, a beautiful cluster of stars. After that, I decided to squint at Antares red glow, then swung across for my first view of Alpha Centauri (sure that was it). Spliting the binary was my first and I was most impressed. After that, across again back to Jupiter for the most spectacular view for me to date. Found the moons very bright (I swear I had 5 at one point - maybe just a floater) and could make out the large centre band. I wasnt expecting such clarity. I am rather looking forward to attempting Pluto and Uranus, but am struggling a bit with finding them. More time and experience will offer them I am sure. About then, the moon came up and I near blinded myself, but worth it, the moon never ceases to impress does it. Must consider a moon filter though...which in itself was also a shame because I was hoping to attempt Plieades and Mars, but the wash of the moon washed the entire area. Ready for next time! I have always wanted to see Mars with my own eyes. Probably have, just didn't know it. Before long the cloud cover returned and the night's viewing was over, but it was rather spectacular all the same. Great newbie night out.

Stallarium is just great as well, really helping me learn the skies in a good way and makes for an interesting night when the clouds are up. Really getting into that one.

[erick]

Great to hear! It's all fun, isn't it. How about you stay up and point it at 17P/Holmes? And Mars will be around somewhere then as well. And Venus a bit later! Hell, don't bother sleeping at all!! ;)

[ballaratdragons]

I still find it absolutely RUDE and 'disgusting service' of National Geographic shop to say what they did to you!

What's the point of having (and paying for) GoTo, and then tell you not to use it. Just because they don't know how to. It is ridiculous!!!

[coldspace]

Hi psyche101,

I got jibbed a few years ago by a salesman and it nearly sent my passion down hill. Always loved the sky and when Mars was closest a few years back I ran out and was sold the wrong scope. Anyway back on track now and joined the SAS down the Gold Coast and have not looked back. A very experienced and such a great bunch of people. At the club you can hire various 8 inch scopes and many other items for next to nothing. All funds go back to the clubfor new gear. You are welcome to attend as much or little as you want. Go to our web site for times of meetings and contacts. $30 bucks a year is an absolute bargain for the wealth of information there. On pluto even through a large scope you may see only a small star like thing and even then you need to know its position to confirm that its not a star. Hope you stay as keen as me.:)

Regards Matt.

[psyche101]

If I didn't have to work, I reckon I would :) But I am gonna need some binoculars now lol. Looking forward to the Christmas break I can tell you. I am so very keen to lay eyes on Mars - and recognise it. I just knew this hobby was for me, I was right. :D
I've been reading about Holmes, I may have a crack at that one Friday night weather permitting.


I gotta admit, I was rather suprised telling me to give it a miss, even though it was a heck of a bargain, and I am very happy with the scope, I was indeed disillusioned to find nobody could tell me how to work the thing, especially when that was indeed the main selling point. Actually, the NG shop said they would offer a one of setup at the time of the sale, although not so keen on my return visit, when I got the "give up" advice. Staff are very pleasant and as helpful as possible, I like to think that it was purely a mistake as to the experience level believed to be inhouse. I would hate to think those lovely people would knowingly take advantage. I am sure the manual is missing something basic in the setup it assumes all people know, that I don't. Although....it does seem to have the NG staff perplexed as well, even the one who has tried this scope out.....
Still haven't got the darn thing running right. Thank goodness for Stellarium :)



That sounds great. I have to join. I have so much to learn and would rather it not be a lesson I overspend on. I am keen to try a barlow - to get the double magnification out of my eyepieces, but the reviews in here make them sound rather ordinary? It would be an imense help to see my Skyalign set up just once by an experienced person as I seem to learn well by example. I am sure it would only take watching it go together once to get me going. I can see this would be hugely advantageous, definitley going to have a look at this.
Thankfully, I have not been put of, even though I now see that it would have been a darn good idea to come here first and read "what wrong with each of my scopes", as that is a brilliant article, it seems my instincts. led me well. I have chosen something with a good solid tripod, easy to slew, holds steady, light enough to hand cart around the backyard for best viewing angles (going to build a viewing platform, found it best about roof level), offers great views and looks impressive to boot. I am sure if I get Skyalign happening properly I will love the tour function even when I eventually recognise the skies. I'd love to hire an 8" or larger for a big night in the backyard, hope to see you there. I was expecting a tiny blue/green spot with Pluto, but I am finding it takes some time to comb the sky. I was looking for a coloured star that does not twinkle? Would that be the way to go? I am pleased to say my enthusiasm shows no signs of fading. The Sculptor Galaxy and Plieades are my next main targets.

Righto, off to put my order in for Astronomy 2008. Got my email, sounds like a bargain to me. :D Gee, it is even more encouraging to hear from you all. Thanks for the replies.

[psyche101]

I have read some very interesting posts here about catching meteor showers, which sounds pretty darn impressive. Any tips? I was also wondering if satellites like the ISS can be viewed, or are they too fast? Too small?

[erick]

You cannot go wrong with this book as well, and a good price if you can find it for this at Big W:-

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=25327&highlight=atlas

[psyche101]

I followed the link provided in this thread (www.sas.org.au (http://www.sas.org.au)) that does not seem to work? Is this the same place as www.sas.org (http://www.sas.org) and do I have to join this site to join the Gold Coast chapter, or is it all the same thing?

[vash]

try this one
http://www.sas.org.au/index.html

I has the same thing come up

[psyche101]

Thanks for the tip.

Tempting to have it immediately, but I might have to wait and go through Ice In Space. I want to get my sticker and let other amatuers know how great this place is. :D This is a great way to introduce oneself, and the anonimity helps when asking very basic questions LOL.
I know a couple people at work who have taken quite an interest in my new hobby. I am surely going to point them here. You guys are great.

[psyche101]

Ahhh, that's better. Thanks very much.

Great! Pimpima is about a 15 min drive from me. This just gets better all the time.

[erick]

Different book. I recommend you have both the Astronomy 2008 (through IIS of course) and the Atlas of the Southern Sky - especially if you can get the later for $30! :)

[psyche101]

See now this is what I mean. :) What great people.
Thanks for your patience Eric, I thought it was the same one with many good offers. Payday tomorow, off to Big W Runaway Bay for that one. Sounds like a gem.

[erick]

My fault :doh: Too frugal with words and cryptic of meaning - sorry! But I recommend that you do get the Atlas - it's very good. :thumbsup: