October Photo Challenge - Comments

[iceman]

Place your comments about the October entries in here.

[RB]

An excellent take on this month's theme Houghy !!

[ving]

motivation... i am gunna find this difficult :P

nice one david :)

[erick]

Yes, I think I've lost interest - couldn't be bothered :D

[mnm]

Yeah, me too. :doh:

acropolite, that is not a Messy desk, I should take a picture of mine, well I would if I could find it. :P Maybe we should have a messy desk photo thread. :lol:

[sheeny]

It's not an easy topic this time IMHO. I took a few shots that might fit today with Billy. While this one is possibly not the best quality photo, due to the shadows and jpeg artifacts, but I thought it was the one to use since it is action and Billy's eye contact on the sav is priceless!:lol:

Al.

[h0ughy]

dennis - by the look of them you can tell they work in the public service

[Omaroo]

Not an easy subject this month. I think that if you have to explain what your photo is about, and how it pertains to the subject at hand, you've probably lost the impact and your audience.

Hmm...

maybe not so motivated this month... :(

[RB]

I agree that it's not an easy subject this month and I think these sorts of topics make for an interesting variety of interpretations.

I don't agree though about not adding a short description to the image if one wants to. I don't see this as detracting from the impact to the viewer.
Any of the images this month fit into the category, it's just nice to read the contributor's comment about their photo and any extra info that goes along with their photo.
We've basically been doing this with every month's entries.

[ving]

:poke::evil2: these are the best i could come up with...

or i could take a pic of cheryl nagging me ;)

[iceman]

It is a tough subject, takes more thought and perhaps effort in either creating the scene, or finding the scene that you're after.

I had some ideas in my head but didn't have the time to put any of them in play. The one I entered though, fits nicely for me.

[iceman]

lol nice one Chris! I like it :) But it looks like the dog is about to cry :sad: Pugs aren't known for their jumping skills ;)

[Omaroo]

LOL! That's our Pug "Chops" Mike. She's heavily pregnant with a bunch of mini-Pugs at the moment. Like most Pugs, she has a perpetually sad little face and needs a little encouragement to ..... well... move!

She did get her treats for her effort.....

[ving]

lol chris! poor chops!

[Omaroo]

hehe... her motivation was obvious David - and it paid off! :)

Funny, huh - there are only two photos in this challenge series that show, in the photo, what is motivating the subject clearly and without explanation - and they're both of dogs!

[RB]

This month's topic has turned out some great results both in the images posted and in the voting participation rate.

IMO the images that got my attention are the ones that don't look 'staged' but rather are a 'natural' snapshot of the theme.

A great contest indeed.

:thumbsup:

[Omaroo]

Andrew - in a photographic competition, photos are usually judged on how well the convey to the viewer the subject matter at hand. Composition matters, of course, but if the subject, i.e. "motivation" was posted as the criteria on which a photo was to be judged, then the judges will look at the photo and ask themselves "if I wasn't told what the subject was, could I guess it?".

While any photo subject taken may motivate the photographer in their own way, would it necessarily mean the same thing to someone else without a border stating "this photo motivates me because..."? This, I believe, is how people should think when they're given a subject to answer. My old man was the president of the Northern Suburbs Camera Club in Sydney for years and ran many comps for the members. I've always tried to follow his advice when taking photos, and endeavour to apply his comp principles whenever entering one.

Otherwise I could simply post a picture of a bus and then explain it away by stating "I'm motivated by this picture because these things get me home from work on a Friday". Sadly, whilst it is a great picture of a bus, it doesn't mean diddly-squat to anyone else and no-one understands the motivation behind the photo's capture.

LOL! I'm not trying to be harsh here, and certainly am not looking for trouble, but merely giving my opinion on the way photographs should be judged IMHO, and voted on IF there is a "subject" at hand. Criteria for the judgement - not how "nice" a photo is but what does it say?

Nice lot of photies this month, all aside:thumbsup:

[RB]

I'd agree with you Chris but on the same token, all other factors aside, a photo that hasn't been 'setup' or 'staged' to adhere to the theme usually rates higher in a judges mind, unless of course it's still life or certain macro imaging.
This is what I tried to base my judgment on and if the photo had any extra explanation with it, I took it into account as well but not to the point of the extreme were you need the explanation to understand the image.

[Omaroo]

Absolutely Andrew that's exactly the point. :thumbsup:

I suppose you're referring to mine, which was most definitely "staged" - but I did so to visually impart a concept - and that is "motivation". There is no other way of interpreting the message. Often as not, a "staged" photo makes as good a pic as a "natural" one in that there is a certain amount of "cheek" associated with it. :)

[RB]

Here is the crux of the discussion I believe.
In advertising obviously most have to be staged in order to convey a message or theme, even without explanation.

And yes even in imaging comps a staged photo is acceptable but a natural one, given all other factors to be similar, would score higher in my mind.

I've entered both staged and natural photos in comps but acknowledge that a natural photo would be preferred in every instance.

I did enjoy this month's challenge, I wasn't expecting to enter it though as I thought I wouldn't find a suitable image to enter.

Good topic Mike.

[Omaroo]

Yep - good topic Mike. I wasn't in favour of it earlier on, but I think that it's obtuse enough to generate a greatly varied response.

One thing I think would be better for these photo competitions, though, is the protection of anonymity. Is there any way this could be done at all? Could contributors send their entries to central repository (i.e. a mod) and they put them up in a thread for everyone to see - numbered and without names attached so that judging is impartial? It might be fairer on those who are less well known here.

Just another silly thought....:shrug:

[RB]

It's not silly at all and I agree we need it to be anonymous.
I've suggested it to Mike and so have others and we've had an open discussion on the forum too.

I believe it's the only fair way and will eliminate the "vote for your mate" factor to some extent and won't penalise those who've already won it on previous occasions.

Hopefully we can come up with a way to implement this, perhaps each mod can take turns each month in being "the image organiser" but can't vote nor enter for that month.

[ving]

I like it the way it is because andrew wins too often :P

just kidding ;)

[h0ughy]

OK I labelled the image because I felt like it - I had seen posters with such information on it, as for my son climbing the walls - well that's a role reversal (he normally has me climbing the walls metaphorically speaking). So what I labelled the image!! as for the vote rigging - I have never ever voted for myself, and always pick images that appeal to me. And Ving you are most correct, however, even if we smeared vasoline on his lens he would turn it into a winner, some have just got talent and some are just like me - useless no matter what. Who gives a (insert favorite meaning here) - as long as we all can have a go. I like the idea of in the pot, drawn and then vote with no names.

[Dennis]

I particularly enjoy the simplicity and openness of the challenge. There are some very talented, serious photographers who submit classy, excellent entries and I enjoy their craft. Equally well, I also get a kick out of seeing the photo’s posted by those who are less serious, perhaps have lesser equipment, but just decide to give it a go.

There is something quite refreshing about seeing such a broad range of submissions, and for encouraging everyone to get out and walk the streets with their camera, regardless of experience, innate talent, skill or degree of equipment sophistication. I’m sure there are photography forums where those with real talent and passion can ply their craft, but it would be a shame to see this comp get too serious.

Cheers

Dennis

[jjjnettie]

Win or lose, who cares really, so long as it inspires you to get off your duff and have a go.
Anon. is a good idea and if you feel the need to put a small commentary on the pic, add it to the bottom of the photo in photoshop or paint.

[Omaroo]

I agree Jeanette - a "title" will often do the trick and is all that is needed. No explanations, just a title.

I think you'll probably find that most, if not all, people who enter a competition do it to try and win - and fairness is very important to them. Anonymity guarantees that.

[jjjnettie]

LOL Yeah, winning is good.

[iceman]

Chris, you're allowed your opinion just as everyone else is. Don't apologise for that, you haven't rocked any boats :)

The reason I haven't replied till now is to let others voice their opinions as well. I don't have the right answer, i'm happy to go with popular consensus in this case.

The monthly photo comps are for fun, because through experience we've found that most people into astrophotography are also into photography, and vice versa. Most people already have the cameras and equipment to take photos and are interested in all things photography. This monthly competition was a chance for people to all take photos of a particular theme and see people's interpretations of them.

As Dennis has said, some people take it seriously and some people don't. Some people just do it for fun and maybe they're hoping to improve their skills and challenge themselves. The worst thing we could do is make it so serious that it actually discourages people from entering because they think they're not good enough.

I agree the voting system problem isn't ideal, and I'm sure it could be improved, but (imo) it's better than others I've seen on other photography forums. On others I've seen, you only get to vote for 1 photo - which is very very difficult sometimes, especially if there are over 20 entries. At least by being able to select your favourite 2, or 3, or 4, then the weight of opinion still wins out, but you also get to see more of a spread.

If you got only 1 choice, there would likely be a lot of people who don't get any votes - and again they would be discouraged from entering, something we don't want to happen.

It is possible that people vote for their friends, and is the same in any of the photo comps I've seen forums - i've yet to see one that's anonymous, though I don't get around to many other photography forums. However from the results we've seen over the months/years this monthly comp has been going, I think the winners have been fairly varied, and usually it would be hard to disagree that the winner had the best photo, or one of the best photos.

It's always subjective, and because the people voting aren't all photographic hobbyists and don't take it very seriously, they don't judge the photos in the same way as people judge them on photographic forums. What appeals to them is completely different.

I don't mind the anonymous idea, as long as someone is happy to put it all together each month (on a rotating basis). I'd like to hear what others think though too - as I said, I'm happy to go with popular consensus on this, as this "competition" is for everyone.

[Omaroo]

Thanks for replying Mike. You doing so is what makes your forum a good place to park for the day.

I don't think that turning the monthly comp into an anonymous entry affair is turning it into something more "serious" - just more fair, that's all. It would be just as it is now except we wouldn't know who's was who's until the end! I reckon that would probably even add an extra dimension to the fun! :) You would still offer 3 or 4 votes to spread the weight a bit, but you'd be voting for a series of numbers, not people. Eg - this month I might have voted for images 2,7 & 10.

Not allowing accompanying comments would certainly better position people to judge on the actual images' attributes alone. I think that a title could be allowed, and that would be all people could go off in terms of how they interpret the image's relevance to the subject at hand.

Anyway - it's all good in the end.:D

[Sharnbrook]

Some very good points made in this thread. I have also thought in the past that anonimity of posting would be preferable, but I didn't want to suggest it, as I felt it may "rock the boat". However, now that it's been said, I fully support the suggestion.

May I also add another point? I try to vote before I look at the results of the poll. Generally I manage to do that, but some months I cannot contain my curiosity, and have a peek at the results before I vote. This nearly always leads to me changing my mind, and that shouldn't really happen. Maybe not everyone can be swayed by the popular vote, or indeed the lack of a vote, but I suspect that many people are. Could voting be set up so that only when a vote has been cast, is the voter able to access the results?

I agree that winning is not everything, but it sure beats the hell out of coming second!

[RB]

Good suggestion Mike about viewing the result only after the vote is cast and I agree Anon entries would be much better.

:thumbsup:

[Dennis]

I think that one scenario that the anonymous proposal does not cater for, is that knowledge of who took the photo, the equipment used and under what conditions they made the exposure could be an important factor in assessing a submission?

For example, if Ansell Adams entered the comp (an extreme case I know!) I may not necessarily vote for his entry. However, a submission from a newbie, a photo acquired under difficult circumstances or a photo showing a personal improvement from a previous entry may be one of those that gets my vote?

Cheers

Dennis

[Omaroo]

You vote for the person or the image Dennis? I don't vote for someone new just because they're new, or not vote for someone experienced - that's unfair to everyone I reckon. I thought that the whole idea behind anonymity was to obliterate this practice... :sadeyes:

PS - When's the November comp going to be up? :)

[Dennis]

If by that you mean is the person the sole, or prime consideration, then no, that is not how I vote. Some of what influences my judgement, in no particular order and not exhaustive are:

The immediate impact of the photo
The composition
The month in which it was captured
How the photographer has handled any capture difficulties
If I can remember previous entries, has there been an improvement that makes seeing the particular submission more special
Was the photo taken under difficult circumstances
How well has the theme been interpreted
Has their talent for their age, experience, equipment etc, produced something that has exceeded my expectations.

Cheers

Dennis

[ving]

6 of one... you know the saying :)

I really dont care either way, names or no names... to me its always been about fun :) At the Ausphotography forum they are going about he exat same question :)
I can see the point of anon pics though and think its a good idea and alot fairer... I dont want to give awards to most improved, i just want to vote for the pictures i like :)

[RB]

Same here David, the images either appeal to you or they don't.

[ving]

mike could haqve presented a screen shot of this thread in this weeks comp... I would have voted for it! :lol:

[sheeny]

Great discussion here guys! I've just tuned in after a few days on the road...

I don't have strong feelings one way or the other. I confess to taking factors other than simply the image into account, in a similar way to Dennis described. I appreciate it when someone can capture an image with "feel" under adverse conditions. These types of images sometimes appeal to me more than a technically correct shot.

So while I like the informal feel of the competitions as they are, I would not be adverse to an anonymous posting procedure. I guess I'd like to see it kept simple, and not taken too seriously.

The day people decide not to post an image because they feel the comp is too serious, is the day we all lose out.

Al.