Purchase advice for novice

[woosydiver]

Hello Forum folks.

Yet another newbie here, just registered yesterday & been browsing the postings in the hope of finding the same questions that I have, but not quite.

So may I ask for some advice on an intended purchase? I think I know what I want in terms of usage, here goes.

1. I'm confident I won't get totally gripped & spend the rest of my nights looking upwards. But I will enjoy a couple of hours every now and then gazing upwards, mainly at the moon [I think].

2. I would like to use a telescope as a spotter scope for bird or whale watching

3. It would be nice if I could mount my digital compact camera on the scope for "snap" type photos. Absolutley no chance of getting an SRL.

4. Ease of use. If it's messy setting up I just know I won't bother.

5. Farely robust. I'd want to take it camping so it'd be in the car bouncing along dirt trails.

6. I guess I'd be looking to spend up to maybe............umm............ lets give a ball park fugure of $700. Less would be good, a little more possible.

7. I'd rather pay for quality optics rather than bells & whistles.

From other postings I think a short refractor would be best for me. I've got a top quality pair of 8x42 binos which show the moon crystal clear & bright - I'd just like to get somewhat closer. More powerfull binos on a stand would be OK but the erganomics are probably not so good & mounting my digicam is probably not possible.

thanks.

Steve

[wavelandscott]

Welcome to IIS...

Based on your comments, I'd say that you would be a good candidate for a Skywatcher Pro ED80 (or equivalent)...can do well with astrophotography but should also work well with bird/whale watching...providing that you put it on the right mount.

I have one and although I've not used it for daytime viewing (except with a solar filter looking at the sun), I do enjoy it on the moon and planets...it is easy and quick to set up...simple to use on the Alt/AZ mount.

Cheers,

[leon]

Yes I have to agree, with the last post, and feel that the ED80, Skywatcher or Williams Optics or the same aperture would just about do all that you have requested.

They are very portable, and fairly robust scopes, and can be used for both astronomical and land type viewing. ;)

You are able to get attachments and the like, and even get into imaging, if that takes your fancy later up the track. :shrug:

Probably the best option for you, considering your needs.

Cheers Leon :thumbsup:

[acropolite]

As the others have said an Ed80 would be a good choice as the optics are superb and they are robust. I'd mount it on a Vixen portamount or the GS equivalent (I think Andrews has a good price on the GS mount at the moment), that will come in a bit over the $700 you mentioned. If birdwatching and whalewatching is in the wish list you need to keep the focal length relatively short as magnifications over 30x are often unuseable for terrestrial viewing (too much air turbulence).

[ballaratdragons]

I third the opinion above.

The ED80 is robust, light, has great quality optics, great at Astrophotography (short exposure without tracking, long exposure with), and very reasonably priced!

They are sold under several brand names: Skywatcher, Saxon, Orion, etc.

Andrews in Sydney has a special on at the moment including a tripod -
Saxon S-ED80 NEW! 80mm ED spotting scope with outstanding high grade optics, includes tripod $699.00
http://andrewscom.com.au/site-section-10.htm in the Saxon section.

and lots of other Astronomy Shops sell them as just the Scope, or with tripods and EQ mounts..

[woosydiver]

Hey, thanks all for your quick replies. It's pleasing that you all saying what I thought may be my best option.

I have been browsing the Andrews website so I guess a trip down there next week will be on the cards, it's not far from me.

On the point of quality, you all state ED, do you think I would definitely see the difference in a lower quality optic? [in the hope of reduced price].

As I want daytime terrestrial & night time celestial [getting the hang of the terminology] I believe I would need a 45 degree erect image diagonal and 90 degree star diagonal optics. Am I correct?

Do these just twist the image & so I put the eye piece into whichever I'm using at the time?

Hopefully Andrews will be able to advise on all the parts for a complete package [eye pieces, mount, camera adaptor, case etc.]

Cheers

Steve

[xelasnave]

You could get by with just the 45 degree erect.
I have a little 80 x 400 and use it for a guide scope, a field scope (I am into birds) and as a telephoto lens on the 300d for terristial shots..worth ever cent of the $200 it cost.
Pennant Hills eh..I am next door but one when in Sydney.
The mount is the most important part of a rig..that is hard to appreciate when starting but believe it... you can take reasonable astro shots with a good mount and a crap scope but not the other way about... start pricing mounts if you are considering photography..eq5 or eq6 are the cheapest reasonable entry level. I have an eq6 and it is very good used with a 750mmfl 150sn.
AND welcome from me.
alex

[acropolite]

When you look at tripods, keep in mind balance, there is a cheapish tripod, an AZ3 which mounts the OTA above the pivot point and the weight of the OTA tends to overbalance when tilted past the horizontal plane. The Vixen Porta mount (or the GS equivqalent) has the OTA balanced around the pivot point and is infinitely better to use. It also has nice slow motion controls for accurate pointing. When you think of cheaper, remember the cheaper option often disappoints, and usually has poor resale value. I can't recall ever saying "I wish I had bought a cheaper one", but I've had a lot of occasions when I wished I had spent a few more dollars.

[wavelandscott]

I have the GSO "clone" of the Vixen Porta-mount that I got at BINTEL in Glebe (near the fish market)...I am very pleased with it. As has been pointed out, the mount is an important part of the package. A "wobbly" mount can ruin a great telescope!

[rmcpb]

Steve,

Welcome to IIS :)

Have you looked in the Buy and Sell?? Have a look at this thread http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=24555 This would be a beaut starter kit and save me from buying it, its very tempting!!

Cheers

[rogerco]

I have just got into astro photography and have gone down the ED80 on an EQ5 mount. That is a lot more than the $700 you started at more like $1200 by the time you have a camera adapter. And that is before motorising it.

The ED by the way means it is better corrected for colour ocussing. important in photographing bright objects.

For your whale watching remember this is an astro telescope so everything is upside down and left to right. A diagonal gets it up the right way but it is still left to right.

With photography you mentioned not getting an SLR, this brings up the question of focusing. You are going to have problems I suggest you lok into some of the articles as you cannot simply focus the telescope with a viewfinder and then substitute a camera. You can just put the camera up to the lens but th results are not going to be very good.

Roger

[acropolite]

Not entirely correct, a 90 degree diagonal is mirror imaged but as Alex has stated, a 45 erect degree diagonal gives correct orientation.

[wavelandscott]

A Skywatcher Pro ED80 at Bintel is now $699 and their Porta mount clone is $349...so yes, it is over the target budget.

I do not know what price MyAstro Shop or Andrews has at the moment for similar gear.

There are a range of other Achromatic refracters on Alt/Az mounts available for less than $700...these should be fine for daytime viewing and will work on the moon and planets (although they will likely exhibit some false colour but this is speculation on my part as I have not used them).

I do own and use the ED80 mounted on the GSO/Bintel Porta mount clone and think highly of it for what it is...a good value scope that can be used day or night and is suitable for photography. The mount does what I ask of it but is not a self tracking mount. I find the slow motion controls work fine for the moon and planets which is what I use it for with my Denk Binoviewers.

There are lots of choices and the original poster should go check some out and discuss his/her interest with some of the telescope retailers...I am sure that they can offer some insight and assistance as to the right choice of scope for the poster's needs.

Clear Skies!

[woosydiver]

Thanks all for your feedback/comments.

Mount: I'm pretty sure I don't want an equitoral due to the extra complexity, bulk, weight, cost & setting up [?]. I'm sure a good Alt/Az with correct balance, rigidity & fine movement will be OK.

Cost: Umm, some of the suggestions are indeed building up the $'s. I'm still undecided exactly what I'm happy paying. I have to strike a balance between expected minimal use against wanting quality, i.e. do I want to spend many $'s on something I don't think I'll use that often. I'm almost tempted to buy some cheapo gear but I know I'll be dissapointed as soon as I've used it. I had the same buying my binos - spent weeks going around shops looking through mediocre gear & then tested what I bought which may have average magnification but I can see every minute detail due to excellent optics. This is what I hope for in a telescope, I don't want huge magnification with little detail.

Thanks rogerco for your comments on the photography. I think I understand how it should be done, but I don't want to go down that path. The $'s will just go up & up & I don't have the patience to learn & do things correctly. If the occassional quick snap can't be done for moderate cost then I will live without photos.

rmcpb - I had seen that setup but the mount puts me off.

I'd still be interested to hear any comments regarding wether the extra cost of ED optics are worth it. I realise inferior optics will produce "colours" on high contrast boundaries [just like my digital camera] but will the detail be any better where high contrast isn't applicable?

Cheers

Steve

[xelasnave]

My little 80 has rather bad CR really but it is very handy. Perfection is not cheap so it is a case of using what you get accept the short comings you percieve and enjoying what it delivers. CR means in effect a poor focus but it is hardy noticable unless you simply wish to complain that it could be better...I have a 150ar worth maybe $1000 it is very good when you realise that a triplet 150 is about $15,000.... dure Icould notice the difference but its not woth $14,000 to have the best... I think even qhat many call poor optics are not that bad really.
alex

[ballaratdragons]

Steve,

the link Rob put in for the refractor and mount here: http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=24555

What is it you don't like about that mount so we'll know which way you want to go.

That mount is an EQ which can be motorised at a fairly cheap price for when you do want to do some Astrophotography.

And because the scope is a refractor, not a reflector, where the scope faces doesn't call for you to be a contortionist like it does with Reflectors.

Yes, it does have to be polar aligned, but that isn't all that hard, and for wide field (especially visual) near enough is often good enough. For loooong exposure Astrophotography it needs to be more accurate.

An Alt/Az mount it going to make it hard to do any Astrophotography, and you'll find it hard at higher mags to keep an object in the eyepiece for visual. Thats where EQ's are good, once an object is in there, it is only a matter of moving in R.A. or motorising it.

They even make a GoTo for those EQ3's now, so if you want some fun later on down the track, fit one and you can ask it to go to an object and it will.

[woosydiver]

xelasnave: "it is a case of using what you get accept the short comings you percieve and enjoying what it delivers"

Maybe I should jump in at the much cheaper end of things & see how I get on. I reviewed the available $'s last night & I think I'll be wanting to spend well under my original $700 figure.

ballaratdragons: "What is it you don't like about that mount".

As I mentioned in my previous post, it looks far more cumbersome, heavier & fiddly than a Alt/AZ mount. I want kit which is portable & VERY easy to setup/takedown. I know that if it's an effort to setup then I won't use it - it's then a waste of $'s & space.

I think it's noteworthy to say that I won't be getting into Astrophotography, I'd just maybe like to take the odd quick snap if possible, almost certainly would be just the moon. This is what I was thinking of http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=15374

Thanks all again

[rogerco]

purhaps you should look outside the square, your on a astro site so naturally our ideas are that way inclined. Perhaps you might be better considering just going down the photography path. The second generation of Canon and Nikon DSLR cameras are coming on the market. You might find some of the older bodies coming on the market cheaply. There are lots of Nikon lenses available and for occasional use a manual lens and 2x multiplyier will be far more convienient to use than any astro telescope camera combination.

I have just been doing some tests with a "projection eyepiece" I was sold by a Sydney dealer, the results were attrocious and totally unuseable.

Alternatively there are telescopes and binoculars with cameras built in for simple snaps.

Roger

[woosydiver]

Well, I've cooled down since I started this thread. I've tempered my exceitement & my put my more sensible hat on. I'm popping to Andrews Communications tomorrow to have a chat & look at what's available.

I have a gut feeling I'll come out with either a cost effective [did I say cheap] spotting scope for a couple of hundred $'s or if my sensible hat gets left in the car, I'll be the proud [& poor] owner of a top rate short tube refractor.

ps. I had a think very much outside the square - photography isn't required.

I'll let you know

Steve

[Shawn]

Have a look at MickPinners add in buy sell and trade....

[DougAdams]

It's great you are thinking this through. I owned a refractor on a EQ mount, and while the scope was good, I hated just about everything you listed about the mount. I've since picked up another refractor on a good alt-az mount and love it. Get the setup you'll use the most.

[rmcpb]

That is why I love the dobs. Alt/Az motion is simple then just add the equatorial platform when you need tracking :)

[rogerco]

Shop around, take the extra time and go down to Bintel at Glebe, I've dealt with Andrews for ham radio and now astronomy and know them well, I have also dealt with Bintel, it pays to compare and with astronomy you have the other dealers.

Roger

[woosydiver]

I'VE DONE IT!

I bought a telescope yestreday. :D

I popped in to both Andrews and Bintel. It was bit of a drawn out decision but I came out of Bintel with an Orion ShortTube 80mm Refractor as a kit but no mount for $379. I was hoping that my current camera mount may have been suitable, I was 90% confident it would not and proved myself correct within seconds of attaching the telescope. Now looking for a mount.

The telescope is reviewed in IceInSpace at http://www.iceinspace.com.au/index.php?id=41,282,0,0,1,0

I liked:

the price
it came as a complete kit
size
flexibility for future enhancements [compared to s spotting scope which I was also considering]
pretty white colour [only kidding]Although it was a clear sky last night I did'nt really test it out due to no suitable mount [& too many glasses of wine:D]

Thanks all for you help, comments, & suggestions, just 1 last question,

Do I have to grow a beard to really get into astronomy?:rofl:

[rogerco]

Made exactly that mistake myself. I have pretty much the same scope, I was thinking about the EQ3 mount but I am glad I was persuaded to buy the EQ5. But it is a heavy tripod and mount might not fit with what you are doing and you probably don't need to bother with an eqitorial mount if you are not going to get into photography.

Have fun
Roger