Should we mine Helium 3 on the Moon?

[OneOfOne]

Did anyone else manage to catch "Selling the Moon" on SBS at the weekend? At first I thought it was about people selling titles for parts of the Moon, and a small part of it was. I like the way the guy picked the next area to "subdivide", "I close my eyes and put my finger on an area and if we haven't already sold it, we do that area next". They have 4 million "land holders" at the moment.

The most important part of the show was concerned with possible mining of helium 3 from the Moon for the production of fusion energy. Apparently fusion of the elements common on Earth produces large amounts on energy in the form of neutrons that degrade the walls of the containing chamber, however by using helium 3 this production is much reduced and the efficiency is much greater. Helium 3 does not occur naturally on Earth as it is shielded by our atmosphere, it is only obtained as a byproduct of current fission processes in very small quantities, while on the Moon it becomes embedded in the rocks. Helium 3 is produced from the Sun and is constantly spewed into space as part of the solar wind. As a comodity it is valued at approximately a billion dollars a ton...much more than gold. One of the Apollo astronauts (the only geologist) has set up a company with the hope of mining the material by 2020 and shipping it back to Earth and hopes that it could ultimately replace fossil fuels and current fission techniques. Makes you wonder if they "never" landed on the Moon why a person involved in the coverup would go to so much trouble doesn't it (I guess that is another nail in the conspiracy theory).

Of course this raises the quesion of should we mine the Moon? Some on the show say we should, whilst other say we should treat it like the Antarctic and leave it. Of course, if we could mine the Moon and cease to destroy our climate, would that be reason enough to justify strip mining the Moon? It's "our" Moon after all, and as far as we know, no one else is using it. Or should be learn to control our consumption here on Earth first. Of course, someone will ultimately decide to mine it, so should we start first?

So what do you think?

[Gargoyle_Steve]

I saw the show .... I think that if we can mine helium 3 there to produce cleaner energy then I can't see why it would be a bad thing. There is no atmosphere there to pollute, we haven't found any form of life whose ecosystem we would be impacting, etc.

If we do find some form of life on the moon buried in the rocks, etc, that might change my opinion a bit, though we mine the heck out of the Earth where life is abundant every single day. Perhaps it would still be better to mine several tonnes of rock on the moon for the helium 3 instead of the equivalent hundreds of thousands of tonnes of coal, etc, here needed to provide the same amount of energy?

[DJDD]

Does this remind anyone of the Time Machine (the movie? maybe the book- cannot remember).

Mining the moon leads to a catastrophic accident that essentially leads to the destruction of civilisation...

DJDD

[bojan]

I would not worry about this too much...

[DJDD]

well, i will not lose sleep over it. :P

although, given humankind's track record of stuffing things up (politically, environmentally, socially) something is bound to go wrong.:screwy:

anyway, mining on the moon is a long way off...
the children I do not yet have will not even see it in their lifetime.

DJDD

[higginsdj]

At 0.01 ppm, it might be problematic equipping or funding such an operation!

Reference:
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2007/pdf/2175.pdf

Cheers

David

[mickoking]

I have no problem with mining or exploitation of the moon if its properly regulated. I am more concerned about the Earths environment than the moons.

[mill]

Didn't we stuff up enough already?
First the planet we live on and now the moon, what next?

[monoxide]

im with mill on this one

[Ric]

I'm in two minds about this. If we can't get it right down here now then what are we going to do to the Moon.

On the other hand if it means a cleaner Earth then it's probably a good thing but no one country or company should ever be allowed to have a monopoly on this resource.

Cheers

[Rattler]

I suppose you could mine on the far side of the Moon. What do 'they' say?? Out of sight....................?????

Have fun

[DJDD]

can I change my vote?

[xelasnave]

Hard way to get energy one would think given that the problem 20 years ago was 20 years off solving as it still is today... mining is the first reason to live where you should not and humans are good at that...why not.. but I still say we need battle stars to protect the trade routes in place before we start shipping anything that is"related to advanced energy..there are no doubt aliens who raid such shipments because it is valuable in their economies.

alex
alex

[Ric]

Interesting thoughts Alex :lol:

They might mine into a cavern and find a craft with green eggs and face huggers and......

:doh: Oh that's already been done hasn't it.

Cheers

[robin]

Mining helium 3 on the luna surface has long been an aspiration of Apollo 17 LMP & geologist Harrison 'Bull' Schmidt. The '..we're crazy if we dont mentality' is something that I dont subscribe to. The moon should always remain a pristine(excluding US & Russian probes, landers & rovers) environment. We can barely make it into earth orbit without NASA having kittens over pieces of foam flying off the shuttle...so imagine the logistics of full scale Helium3 strip mining & associated pollution on the luna surface, then processing then shipping it back to earth. No one nation owns the moon.Hopefully the logistics will not let this happen....my 2 cents.

[ballaratdragons]

and to continue on Robins thoughts:

There would have to be constant flights to make it viable. A shuttle Bay full every few months won't be of any use. They will have to launch rockets weekly (or even daily).

Now, if they mine Helium 3 for energy saving, what about the amount of fuel burnt to go get it, and the amount of Air pollution from all the take-offs!!!! It would be like adding millions more cars to the roads.

Have you ever seen a take-off that did not leave enormous amounts of pollution???? With Spaceflight, by thinking greener, we make it blacker.

[Kal]

The moon is just a dead rock. It has no environment & no life, and mining it would not have any negative impacts. As an astronomer, it would add another thing to possibly try and observe :)

[merlin8r]

With current technology, it would cost as much as, if not more than the value of the materials harvested as it would to get them here. The current generation of Space Shuttles have no chance of ever reaching the moon. That's not to say that one day in the future that will change. Just look at some of the ideas being floated, such as Arthur C. Clarkes space elevator, that featured prominently in the Mars Trilogy by Kim Stanley Robinson. At present, I think there are treaties in place banning the exploitation of anything in space. Of course that will only remain in place as long as it's convenient.

[Mr. Subatomic]

Maybe they'll uncover an ancient monolith receiving a signal from Jupiter...

[Mr. Subatomic]

I'm aware that one of the main (or the only, correct me if I'm wrong) issues with nuclear energy is radioactive waste. So how does fusion of Helium-3 compare to fusion of other elements? And if waste isn't the only issue, what else is?

[Gargoyle_Steve]

Our current technology/methods produce as part of the reaction an over-abundance of energetic neutrons that fairly quickly degrade the reactor walls to the point where the walls either have to be completely replaced (dangerous, expensive, time consuming) or the reactor shut down, obviously another bad option. Using Helium 3 as the nucler "fuel" massively reduces this neutron stream thus making the reactor a longer term / lower maintenance unit.

I believe the comment was also made that the half life of waste products produced by helium 3 reaction processes in measured in years, not millennia.

[GrahamL]

thats so true.. so to get this stuff you have to process a good sized chunk of the moons surface ?... and then ship the refined product back here ?

closer to home ;).. i believe around 15000 + kids die each day
http://www.bread.org/learn/hunger-basics/hunger-facts-international.html
of hunger and disease ..despite our world produceing enough to deal with both ... I think we have a poor record on being able to deal with the logistics of moveing stuff and probably always will..so forget about the moon.

[nightsky]

G'Day,
I saw the program and I'd say a big "NO" period, and in regards to the real estate.Trust the yanks to start selling something they don't own.or do they??
Cheers
Arthur

[dmizen]

my first post after lurking for ages

im some what concerned that no body has mentioned the change in mass thats potentialy involved.

the loss of mass from the moon durring mining as a result of removing matter must to some extent change the gravitational relationship between the moon and earth the question must be to what extent? signifiact or not?

who much mass are we talking of removing ? is there going to be a loss of mass as a result of the loss of dust into space ?

then there are the consequential changes to the earth- change in tide paterns etc, are these significant or not?

perhaps the mathamaticians out there may care to consider!

david

[Mr. Subatomic]

I'm not a mathematician, but I suspect that the effect will be unnoticeable. I'm only presuming this in the case that Helium-3 is the only, if not, one of the only elements/materials mined on the moon.

[mill]

And may be so untill they find something else.
As you know people are a greedy bunch, the more they have the more they want, as soon as something else is found on the moon they can use, it will go back with the helium3 and then we will be in big trouble (moon will get smaller).:eyepop:

[Mr. Subatomic]

I wouldn't worry too much about a shrinking moon, but to put things into perspective, I remember the program explaining how it would be impractical to ming bring back an amount of GOLD from the moon equivalent to the amount of Helium-3! It's just that rare.

[OneOfOne]

I gather the He3 is only found in the surface rocks as it is absorbed from the solar wind impacting on the surface.

[astro_nutt]

Consider the cost of transport and mining He3..also think if the which nations of the world will chip in to finance such an operation..but it could also sow the seeds of conflict..(given the track record of world leaders who have gone to war for less that this)
A future power supply is useless until we educate ourselves in the conservation of our current resources...and give a chance for our planet to heal a bit...(re-forest, etc)..after all we still need clean air and water.
Cheers!

[cahullian]

One good thing about mining on the moon would be that there would be a permanent settlement there. Governments won't or can't do it so big business may as well. Use ballast to balance out the loss of mass removed. I for one would use my retirement pension to be burried there.:P

Gazz

[ving]

we are wrecking this planet, we have littered on mars, so why not go and wreck the moon too... boy do we have something to learn as a species...

[MortonH]

If the entire surface of the moon was mined, would the moon's colour/reflectivity be affected? As an astronomer, sometimes I think about how much more observing we could do if the moon was darker and didn't drown out the whole sky. But from an environmental point of view, this would be very bad for all the animals that rely on moonlight (think of those baby turtles that hatch at full moon...)

Personally, I think the human race should leave the moon alone, but it's not going to happen. If people like George Dubya are prepared to allow oil mining in Alaska, they wouldn't think twice about trashing the moon.

Morton

[JimmyH155]

What's a couple more craters on the moon anyway? We wouldn't even notice. But I agree about the constant launching ov space vehicles from Earth - it would completely stuff up what is left of our atmosphere. No the only way is a space elevator to get us up there (read the Red Mars, green Mars, Blue Mars trilogy by Kim Stanley Robinson - fascinating reading) And that's centuries away. Nope, we'll just have to manage with solar power for a while. Stop production of all cars with engines greater than 848cc, and bring back the horses:D:lol:

[GTB_an_Owl]

[ Nope, we'll just have to manage with solar power for a while. Stop production of all cars with engines greater than 848cc, and bring back the horses:D:lol:[/quote]


Maybe you shouldn't laugh about that Jimmy - it's not a bad idea

not only would it cut down on our reliance on oil - it may just prevent a WAR or two

geoff

[Outbackmanyep]

If Australia had anything to do with it, the side facing earth would be made a "National Park" and the other side which we don't see will be mined! :P

[nightsky]

G'Day,
Sad :( but true,if "Little Johnny" has his way thats what would happen,after all he has just "Stole" back land from the Native Australians to use it as a Nuclear dump.
Cheers
Arthur

[Astro78]

If mining the moon for Helium 3 is able to be made profitable (or even feasible) then I say go for it.
The competition and thirst for profit will no doubt accelerate space based technology - seriously who doesn't want to see that? :thumbsup:

[Doc]

I guess I'm ignorant of this topic??????? However, He3 is a monatomic gas that is a gas just above absolute zero. Shouldn't it have escaped the lunar rock eons ago ? Is it thought to be trapped in molecular voids such as those provided in buckyballs (C60. etc)?

Doc :doh:

[OneOfOne]

My understanding is that the He3 is trapped in the material on the surface and is constantly replenished from the solar wind. So mining would entail digging up the top few centimetres of soil and processing it to remove the helium.

[ving]

wrecking this planet... why stop here?


thats sarcasm btw :)

[Benny L]

[/QUOTE]

hell no i'm having fun with my 5.4 Ltr V8 for as long as possible :P

I think mine whats necessary but i dont want to see the man in the moon get pimples because of overmining

[Astro78]

So Doc,

Are you a physicist btw? Forgive me for asking - genuine question no sarcasm. You seem to have offered some great information.

If what your saying is right then shouldn't we (one day) be able to manufacture our own nanotubes with similar properties to these "buckyballs" and harvest from space and not necessarily require to mine from the moon? :shrug:

[joshman]

mmmm, i was thinking along the same line, why spend the trillions of dollars required to set up a full mining and refining 0peration on the moon, when it would be far cheaper (most likely) to invent (or implement) some kind of collection device in space? that would be a hell of alot smarter, especially if this He3 is indeed contained within the solar winds!

of course the size of your collector would need to be massive!

[OneOfOne]

Actually, maybe we could make a huge "sail" big enough to block out the Moon and I would assume if it was made from "bucky balls" it would be black...oh the moonless nights!

[joshman]

oh i like that idea....but what shall the rest of us moon hunters do? maybe they could do a 50/50 type deal? obsure the moon for half of each month, then not, for the other half, that way when it's too bright to observe, we can all be inside processing images and socialising with family and friends...

i like this idea...