canon 400d

[joshman]

hey one and all,

awesome forums ya'll got here!

i've been taking lunar photographs for the last few months with my canon powershot s3is (results can be seen here http://picasaweb.google.com/teh.JDogg/LunarPhotos, note these photos have been reduced in size and have had minimal post processing applied to them) and as such have developed a keen interest in what else is up there.

i've recently purchased a canon400d, my first SLR camera, and am really looking forward to delving into some astrophotography with this baby. at the moment i've only got the stupid 18-55mm kit lens and the eclipse is coming up! i would really to have liked to purchased a lens with some decent zoom on it before this event, but that isn't going to happen unless i sell the s3is, which i am reluctant to do before this event because i haven't had enough practise with the 400d to feel confident in photographing the moon (plus the s3is has a killer 12x zoom and IS, allows for great hand held lunar photography)

anyway,
what can i do to maximise my results with the 400d on eclipse night?

and if any local brisbane-ites could point me in the direction of moon rise for that evening (or to where i can find out), that'd be awesome too.

oh, and suggestions for places to view that AREN'T Mt Coot-tha!, i've got my eye on one but i need to take some test photos before deciding on it, but yes, suggestions would be most welcome.

i've got a tripod and remote shutter release so shake isn't an issue, i will most likely still have my s3is and plan to take it along and go happy snappy with it as well. but you see my dilemma?

anywho! thanks in advance
josh.

[iceman]

Hi Josh!

The 400D is a great camera. It's a shame you haven't got a longer lens or telescope to take pictures through, but you'll be able to do some nice widefield stuff of the eclipse and the s3is will do some nice up-close stuff.

For practise, I'd suggest photographing the moon in the few days leading up to the eclipse - the moon won't be full but it will still be good practise to make sure you have the right settings.

Read the article linked here: http://www.iceinspace.com.au/index.php?id=63,409,0,0,1,0 which has the timings and altitude of the various stages of the eclipse from Brisbane.

Good luck and I look forward to seeing your results!

[joshman]

well i'm going to try and con my mate into brinign his telescope out for the eclipse. but he doesn't know that i've got the 400d yet, so i should prolly give him a good reason to do so.

nice gallery iceman

[[1ponders]]

G'day Josh. If you are going to try to "talk" ;) your mate into bringing his telescope along you may want a few accessories. For a start, some way of connecting your camera to where the eyepiece normally goes. The easiest way to do that is with a T Ring which replaces (http://www.myastroshop.com.au/products/details.asp?id=MAS-001)your lense and a T-1.25 inch adapter (http://www.myastroshop.com.au/products/details.asp?id=MAS-333b) or (better) a T - 2 inch adapter (http://www.myastroshop.com.au/products/details.asp?id=MAS-129)(assuming his scope will take a 2" adapter) that will slot into the telescope eyepiece holder. If he has a barlow you might even be able to use that to get greater magnification.

I really recommend getting out and practicing if you are going to use a telescope. It is a whole new ball game compared to using a lens.

Good luck with it.

[h0ughy]

totally agree - or get some very big lenses - either way your heading for the next stage. if you use a mount you will need to guide it, or if you use a low power lens - 20mm or less you can get away with out guiding - but polar alignment is a must - and you need at least one RA drive. hav a go well before you plan to actually do it - you wont be sorry;)

[joshman]

hmmm....another thing i've been considering is, and please slap me should i utter naughty words, a 500mm mirror lens for my camera. i've seen them for around teh $300 mark, and wonder how they would go for this kind of photography. anyone with any experience using these lenses? my only problem is that i would be fixed to a single focal length, and 500mm is pretty close up...

my other choices of lens that i'm looking at is either the sigma 70-300mm or the tamron 70-300mm

any thoughts on these?

[[1ponders]]

What do you mean by a mirror lens? A newtonian telescope? If so then what aperture and quality? The 300 will be pretty small but if you could get hold of a 2X teleconverter to go with it then 600 would be fine.

[Solanum]

A mirror lens shouldn't be too bad for photographing the moon as you won't have the depth of field problems. It's pretty much an SCT scope after all! I'd double check that the mirror design doesn't have any implications when used with the smaller than 35 mm chip in the 400d - I don't see why it would.
Don't think that it will be a great 500 mm lens in general though... If you use the camera lot for a range of subjects (day and night!), I think you'd be better off spending the money on the 300mm zoom. That will be nearly the equivalent of 500 mm at 35 mm, and be a more generally useful lens.
Finally, the big chip on the 400d, will mean that the moon still covers quite a few pixels and will be more than enough for on screen images and quite printable I should think. Someone else would probably know the maths for that!

[joshman]

it's a mirror lens for a camera, works on teh same principle as a telescope. find one here (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/500mm-Mirror-Zoom-Lens-for-Canon-20D-30D-300D-350D-400D_W0QQitemZ190140698450QQihZ009Q QcategoryZ30066QQssPageNameZWDVWQQr dZ1QQcmdZViewItem) on ebay

well, either of the sigma or tamron 70-300mm (35mm equivalent focal length of around 480mm) lenses will give me slightly better zoom than my s3is (12x zoom, 35mm equivalent focal length of 454mm) add a 2x teleconverter onto that and i'm looking at a lens with a 35mm equivalent focal length of 960mm at full telephoto. assuming my lens maths isn't off.

i like that.

would give me mucho nice photos of distant things. i daresay that my better option is defnitely a 70-300mm zoom lens. and pickup a 2x tele converter along the way.

[[1ponders]]

At 300 mm it will look something like this......

[joshman]

that looks about right.

that's the kind of FOV that i'm used to seeing with the s3is, and double that for when i get a 2x teleconverter...not before the eclipse though, which is super suckful. i doubt i'll even get a chance to grab the 70-300 lens before the eclipse.

i sure hope the s3is is upto the task.

[Solanum]

300 mm on the 400d will be equivalent to 480 mm on a 35mm camera, so should be better still if you can get that 300mm zoom before the event...

[joshman]

mmmmm.....agreed, i might go into the city and have a look around on monday. suss out a lens. possibly purchase said lens. and practice, practise, practise with said lens.

any idea what sort of settings i should be using on my 400D to photograph the moon?

[[1ponders]]

Actually it will be smaller. The dimensions I used for the initial CCD Calculator output only used 6.4 micron pixels and the 300D chip pixel dimensions. Using the correct 5.7 micron pixels and the 22.2 x14.8 mm chip (3888x2592 pixels) the image ended up even smaller using the 300mm lens.

[madwayne]

As a newbie to all this myself, I am still learning with every outing. This photo is from my 400D taken prime focus through my 4" refractor and it is my best image to date.

As to settings,1/30 second at ISO 200, cropped using the standard run of the mill software that comes with the 400D and no other tweaking with colours.

[Solanum]

Ah sorry, I didn't realise you'd taken that into account. Anyway, even at that size in the frame it will still cover plenty of pixels and look good on the PC screen when cropped down.

[Omaroo]

Josh - do NOT buy a 500mm mirror lens if you want to get nice sharp images of the moon at such a rare time as this. They are notoriously difficult to focus and really aren't any good for night time work at all. I have one and have tried it a few times for lunar work and I've given up. I now use my 300mm Nikon telephoto and just crop a crisp image from the wider field of view.

Cheers
Chris

Here's mine. I've now turned it into a semi-sucessful finder scope.

[RB]

I agree, not really a big fan of these type of lenses.

[joshman]

cheers for the advice, glad to have some first hand experience to go from.

i will go with the 70-300mm lens and look at getting a 2x tele-converter in the near future.

[RB]

The 2x tele-converter won't work with the 70-300mm lens, it's only compatible with the top end primes and 70-200mm L and 100-400mm L.

[joshman]

well that's a bummer isn;t it..... i'm sure there's something that can be done to counter-act this, various connectors and whatnot

[RB]

I've never come across any connector that accomplishes this.
It's all to do with the physical design of the camera and lens system.

[bojan]

You may consider MTO1100... It is Maksutov-Cassegrain, russian made and it is very good value for money (I have one for 30 years now and I intend to use it for this occasion, I am using it as an excellent portable telescope, the star images are diffraction limited, after the whole thing stabilizes thermally ).
You can find details here:
http://www.rugift.com/photocameras/mto_11_ca_lens.htm

To fit Canon400D (and avoid tele-converters) it is possible to perform a very easy to do modification: the removal of the focus stops enables you you to focus MTO1100 on film (or sensor) positioned further away (Canon 400d requires this because of build in flash unit) , and this also increases focal length (normally focal plane is fixed to 45mm, with mod you can go 30cm away which will give you 10m FL, but I do not recommend this, of course).
Unfortunately the prices of this excellent optics went up recently, but they are still much lower compared to big names like Canon and/or Nikon... Not to mention Questar and similar brands.

edit:
a bit more info on Russian MTO's here:
http://www.teleskop-service.com/maksutovs/MTO/MTO.html#MTO1000

[joshman]

well i finalyl got my camera today, as well as a sigma 70-300mm lens, that'll also do macro, thus allowing me to continue with my fascination with all things tiny.

very pleased so far, now if only the clouds would bugger off so i could have a go with things far and HUGE!

[taminga16]

Congrats on your new camera Josh, I am looking foward to more images.

Greg.