The annoyance of a eight month wait with a final no show

[g__day]

You may remember me asking late last year has anyone tried the Williams Optics APO upgrade for am 80mm Megrez. Well no one had so I decided to be the first. Then in January doing my research I noted the upgrade was intended for the Meg SD II, not the shorter SD I. Lee Andrews helped me out here and eventually WO themselves confirmed it was possible, noting you needed a 3" extender rather than a 2" (the SD II tube is 50mm longer than the original SD).

So the time line goes:

January - place order
February - confirm it would work on an SD original and send a reconfirming e-mail I still want it
March - wait, calling to check its status
April - wait, calling to check its status
May - call Lee to find the shipment is in but mine order alone has not arrived - request they find out why and re-order if we have to
June - re-order and wait, query Lee but he didn't appear to follow up on the no show
July - wait, calling to check its status
August - call Lee to find once again - the WO shipment is in but once again mine is the only package missing

So this time I probe a lot harder why?

The answer - oh we've discontinued it now, a few months ago! So I go back to all my e-mail trails to ask why in Feb didn't they say its discontinued or inform it was about to be? What was the status of Lee's orders back then and didn't they follow up when it was discontinued and should my order have arrived? etc

I asked politely but directly what really occurred as I waited almost eight months and no one managed my expectations well and the process seemed flawed. No replies at all...

Then at Astro Optical yesterday - picking up a cable I needed I asked Warren if they stocked WO gear. His reply - "Oh no - they screw distributors here, and worse they are now involved in a massive legal case involving their fluorite refractors. Apparently someone analysed their fluorite lens to find there was no fluorite in them, now there are facing a massive payout for all the gear they have sold that isn't what they sold!"

It leaves me disappointed in the services industry when supply chain logistics don't work and no one follows up why and avoids managing client expectations. I tried 3 times, called about 12 times, sent maybe 12 e-mails all for a no show and bad surprise at the end.

Its not the end of the world, but I wonder still what went wrong.

BTW

As of Monday Lee's taken the APO upgrade off his website - as I pointed out he has been advertising gear that hasn't been available for months now, re-confirming bad communications are happening somewhere.

[[1ponders]]

I've experienced something similar with trying to get replacement parts for gear that was damaged before delivery. Nearly 12 months now and still no go. I've given up waiting for the final screw I need.

I was considering getting the WO 66 directly from OS, but the Tak is looking more and more likely. Thanks for the warning.

[Stephan]

Sorry to hear your story but unfortunately I have heard similar stories about WO before.

With regards, to their legal case involving their fluorite refractors... I have posted the fact that they didn't use real fluorite for their fluorite refractors about a year ago in this forum. I remember that some people didn't believe me back then... :whistle:

Clear Skies

Stephan

[casstony]

I'm not surprised to hear of WO supply problems. A small company trying to get small product runs ready in asian factories at low prices but still maintain decent quality standards - it's quite a balancing act I imagine.

I'm waiting for an eyepiece to be replaced by Burgess Optical - no idea when I'll get it.

[Louwai]

The first time I dealt with WO was via their on-line shop which is based in the US. I received a reply email telling me that they couldn't deal with me from the US, but if I contacted their Korean factory direct they could take care of me.

I have done this twice now.
Both times were efficent & I got exacly what I asked for. All items were well packaged. In fact packaged better than expected.
I bought 28mm UWAN EP, 2" Barlow, 2" diagonal, SCT Focuser.

Have since found the Focuser to be not up to scratch & have replaced it with a Feathertouch, but the other items are all great.

I haven't dealt with WO with regard to any form of warranty claim so can't comment there.

Bryan

[Stephen65]

I'll pipe up to say that while its disappointing you had a bad experience usually WO do have an excellent reputation for customer service. In all my dealings with them I've been very pleased with their response, in one particular case they went considerably out of their way to satisfy an unusual request by me.

As far as I know the story about the fluorite is based on the distinction between actual fluorite crystal (CaF2) and compounds that are called fluorite glass (eg FPL-53) which contain fluorite but aren't pure CaF2. FPL-53 is a compound glass with very similar dispersion rating to actual fluorite made by melting CaF2 and mixing it with other glasses, this makes it more homogeneous and easier to work, polish and hold coatings.

A few APOs have objectives (or at least one lens) made of actual fluorite crystal (some Tak scopes for example) but many more are made of FPL-53 or similar glasses and are sometimes described by their manufacturers (including WO) as "fluorite" this or that. Should the latter be called "fluorite" refractors? On the one hand they don't have fluorite crystal lenses, but they do have fluorite glass lenses.

I for example have a WO FLT-132 refractor, I knew before I bought it that the main lens was not CaF2 but FPL-53 but that's because I did my research and WO supplied that sort of information. Since its an excellent refractor and FPL-53 is optically almost identical to CaF2 the fact that it was made of the former and not the latter didn't bother me. In any event the optical quality of an APO is more determined by the skill in which the lenses are designed and assembled than the materials chosen, I've seen tests of FPL-53 refractors that show them superior to CaFl2 refractors (and vice versa of course).

If on the other hand I had thought that it was an actual CaF2 lens, that fact was very important to me and WO didnt disclose it was made of FPL-53 then that would have been something to get annoyed about.

[GrahamL]

I guess no ones perfect but in your case there was quite a few times were
just basic comunication between retailer/supplier/customer should of sorted this long ago .

[g__day]

Exactly - it felt like all the work was on my end. There were twenty to thirty moments of interaction, at least 5 with Williams Optics direct, so the no show was a stunning let down and drop the ball. If Lee had just once bothered to follow up as I asked, he might have been told get in quick. Instead he ignored my concerns and watch the ball drop 3 times till he was told there is no save now.

I felt very let down.