What can you ACTUALLY see?

[GazzMeister]

Good evening All,

I've just been wondering, what can you really see visually? Obviously not anywhere near as much as in some of the awe inspiring photos posted on this forum and in the magazines. But how much detail can you pick up? Are filters good at giving color comprable to photos? Will we see the same sort of thing as seen in short exposure photography? Finally, can anyone recommend any good websites with pictures of what one can expect to see through the eyepiece. I'm thinking around the 10inch mark.

So much to learn:eyepop: , thanks for any help.

Gareth

[CoombellKid]

Check this site out it gives you some comparisons of M13 through
different size scopes.

http://www.obsessiontelescopes.com/m13/index.html

Views can also improve with atmospheric conditions as well as training
your eye(s) to pick out faint detail. A dark site to observe from is also
a bonus

regards,CS

[Blue Skies]

hmmm, well I think I would say it depends on your eyes as well! Some people have excellent eyes and can see much fainter objects than others, or see Jupiter's 4 big moons naked eye! (I'm envious of them).

But what ever happens, give yourself time to train your eyes!! Really, it's very important. I usually say to people give yourself a year to get used to looking through a scope. For example draw Jupiter when you start out, and most people draw a circle with two dark lines across it. But come back a year later and those two lines will have details such as waves and crinkles, festoons protruding down into the equatorial region and you might even see some white ovals.

Filters don't equal approximate colour at all. Colour is difficult to see at the best of times, and again, give yourself time to see it. I always wondered what the books where talking about when they mentioned the colours of the stars, such as Capella is yellow, Arcturus is 'red'. It took me a year or more to start noticing this detail - which is now quite obvious!

For short exposure photos - hmm, it would depend on the exposure, I think. How short? Sometimes you would see more, sometimes less, I suppose. I know that sounds strange - perhaps someone else can say it better.

[GazzMeister]

HOLY COW!!! Some of those scopes are a bit big for taking out to the backyard when the whim takes you... Thank's for that one, it's a good start. I'm really just wondering if I'll ever see anything like the photos I see in the magazines etc. I'm still blown away by using my binos and 5inch "dept store reflector" on the few things I can regularly find. Are the sketches that people make the best way to find out what you'll see? Or do "happy snaps" accurately show the actual view? :shrug:

[ballaratdragons]

Hi Gareth.
No you won't see objects as they appear on telescope boxes or in here. But as Rob says, you eventually train your eye to see more and more detail each time.

Below I have used an image of mine, and also I placed that image into a rendition of what it actually looks like thru my 12" dob at my very dark sky site.
It gives you an example of what you can see in good dark skies with a 12".

Obviously it will vary from scope to scope and seeing/light pollution, quality of EP's etc. But this is how I see it. :thumbsup:

Below I use Trifid as the example, but thru 12" and larger scopes some colour can be seen in Orion nebula.

Planets show nice colour, but DSO's are 99.9% grey.

[Blue Skies]

ok, to make it simple - NO, happy snaps do not accurately show the acutual view.

If you have doubts you simply must make the effort to get down to your local club and look through somebody else's telescope. The only way you are going to know is to experience it yourself, so get out there and start experiencing!

btw, I've drooled over Obessions for years...one day....(sigh)

[GazzMeister]

Thanks for the responses.
Ken, that image will still knock my socks off when I see it for the first time through a large(er) telescope. For years I thought that the pics you see in books and stuff were exactly what you'd see through the eyepiece, but after seeing the few things I've seen, the real view still isn't dissapointing, it's AMAZING! Also to answer Blue Skies, I'm finally going to a meeting of the Canberra Astronomical Society next thursday so hopefully I'll be able to figure out a few things. I'm really hooked on this astronomy lark, I just wish I'd picked a hobby with clear ANSWERS!!! I guess it's just something I'll have to keep getting (kindly available through forums like this:) ) really basic help with. But then again, the discovery, trial and error, and (eventual:) ) satisfaction, is second to none. Once again thanks for the responses, this forum is extraordinarily helpfull and above all sooooo patient with newbies.

[ballaratdragons]

Yep, the photos on telescope boxes are a real scam to sell scopes to the un-initiated, but whenever I show the general public a Galaxy or Nebula thru my 12" (and even the clubs 8") they are awe struck! Some say they expected to see the 'Picture' quality but are still amazed with the telescope view. They are excited that they can see things they thought were impossible to see. :thumbsup:

I still get amazed at some of the faint distant tiny Fuzzy Blobs I find.

[NQLD_Newby]

High Gareth,

I too am new at this. In my research etc. i found this website which explained some important factors about what you can see. Hope it helps.

http://www.waid-observatory.com/article-what_can_I_see.html

[xelasnave]

The more time you spend at the scope the more you will see...when I started there seemed little to see..now there is too much to see... I thought you needed a 16inch to see a galaxy but in a dark site even a 6inch gives you some ...and a with 12inch (and a 10 no doubt) ..there are so many I laugh at how I thought it was at first.
To me the real thing is so much better than the best photo even if you dont see all the detail... you get a sence of reality, time and space.
Avoid hopping about to see many things but take your time...you need time to see all that is available you miss so much early on rushing I feel...
Good luck and be patient and remember there is really a lot of stuff up there and hopefully it will be there for a while to come..
A dark site is very important ...give me a small scope and a dark site over big APP and a little light ...
alex

[ballaratdragons]

I find that to help train your eye, look at an object (Galaxy or Nebula) for about 5 minutes. Don't just look and say "ooo, pretty" then move to the next object. You will miss too much.

The longer you can look at an object, the more you will see. Use averted vision in all parts of the view, look at the centre and you may see the outer lighter bits, try see any dark sections mixed among the light sections. If possible, attempt a drawing of the object. This is a great way to notice detail.

After about 5 mins, go to another object and try the same procedure.

The advantage to doing it this way is that the next night you look at the same object (not the same night), you have already trained your eye to notice some of the detail, and hopefully you will notice even more during it's second 5 minute visit.

The third time even more!!!

I often spend 15 minutes or more on a particular object, and even after seeing the object probably 50 times or more, I can still see new detail I hadn't noticed previously!!!

Recently while having a good loooong look at a faint tiny galaxy in Doradus, I noticed a few other fainter smaller galaxies way off in the background that I had never noticed before!

[jjjnettie]

Excellent link Rex.

Gareth, I'm sure you'll have a great time with your scope.
This is a hobby that has a long and continuous learning curve. So don't worry if it takes a bit of time to get into it. Get yourself a copy of Sky and telescope or Sky and Space, they're an excellent resource to get you started. Your local library should have some Astronomy books on hand, if not they can order you in some.
See if you can get hold of Steve Massey's "The Night Sky" for an introduction to observing the planets and sun.
Maybe the others here could reccomend a good book for deep sky observing.

[NQLD_Newby]

Thanks jjj,

The imformation available is very overwhelming when you first start out, especially if like me you really have no idea what to expect. I found that article very helpful in explaining what to reasonably expect to see. I agree with him (and Ken) totally about the training your eyes coment. Even in my terribly small scope i am amazed at what i can see now compared to when i first started.

[jjjnettie]

Hey, I spent my first 12 months using a wobbly 60mm refractor so I know the frustrations that a small scope can bring.
But I also know the pure joy that it has given me. I would spend most of the night in our front paddock searching for anything that was in reach of such a small apeture. Lucky I lived under very dark skies so I could see more than one would expect.
Personally I'm glad I started off this way, because I could well and truely appreciate upgrading to my 10" Dob.

[CoombellKid]

I did the same thing as jjjnettie, when I play with that old 60mm now I
sometimes wonder how I kept myself going in this hobby with it and all
it's faults. But it's what really got me hooked. Now I really enjoy the scope
again just to see what I can nab with it.

regards,CS

[WadeH]

Hello Gareth,

Here is a website that I found a while back that I thought was quite useful for comparing eyepieces. A pity they dont have more newtonian sizes, but what do you expect in a free program! The eypiece selections are very good.

http://www.scopesim.com/

Also, as a bit of a laugh, here is a picture of my old Amasco 50mm refractor I got when I was 13 next to my present telescope, a slight improvement. Even with this small scope I was able to see saturns rings, M42, jupiter and moons and lots of other things which I had no idea of what they were but they looked good. Here I am now 32 years later and more hooked than ever.

:)

[CoombellKid]

WadeH,

Great pic!! lol

Now tell me did Amasco copy Tasco or was it the other way around lol

regards,CS

[Glenhuon]

I've still got the 60mm Vanex I got from the tip in Geraldton WA about 18 years ago, its been all over the midwest of WA, bouncing around in the truck on gravel roads, and out in the backyard for days on end so i could nip out and have a few hours stargazing when conditions were good. Although its "aperture challenged" I've had some great sessions with it in the dark skies around Meekathara and Wiluna. Just bought a 150 Newtonian, but don't think I'll be parting with my old friend the "Tennerscope" (only cost $10 from the tip man) :-)

[KG8]

Pictures certainly show a lot more detail but nothing beats the "being there" sense you get when looking through a good EP on a good scope. Perhaps it's being out there under the stars on a dark night that does it, I don't know? But seeing the light direct from the stars has a quality about it that no photo can ever capture.

[ballaratdragons]

Yep, as much as I love imaging, it still doesn't compare to 'Seeing' an object with your own eye! It's kind of 'Mystical'.

Especially when I think how far back in time I am seeing, how far in light years distance I am seeing, and how large the object is I am seeing.

Mind-blowing stuff when you consider those things while eyeballing :)

[dugnsuz]

Well said Alex,
I feel that I am still a victim to the impatient astromomer syndrome!
I always enjoyed the "being there" aspect of visual astronomy, but wholeheartedly embrace the "capturing" being there aspect of imaging.
The learning curve may be steep, but pausing to look back now and again to trace one's steps can be enlightening... I know much more now than I did!!!!!;)
As to what you can ACTUALLY see...if you can see it naked eye or through binos, it will be amazing through a scope!
If you have to search and search for an object you have to avert your gaze to see, then the hunt may be sweeter than the kill I reckon!!
2 cents worth!
Ken's triffid example illustrates the disparity between imaging and visual astronomy really well.
Cheers and Good luck - a 10" DOB is a fantastic visual scope, great light gathering power and easy to manage.
All the best
Doug:thumbsup:

[GazzMeister]

Thanks Everybody

Rex: That link was very helpfull, thanks for that. Ken: I really do need to start sketching what I can see. I've been looking at m7 alot lately (first object I could find easily) and I reckon that if I started to sketch it I would notice alot more. Jeanette: I've been spending LOADS over the past few months on books and magazines (in fact I would probably have enough money to buy some kind of giant telescope by now!). I've got "The Night Sky", it's an awesome book, do you know of anything as good as it that focuses on stuff outside of the solar system? The Aussie magazines are a real help as well, with the "features of the month" type of articles. I'm off to a Canberra Astronomical Society meeting tomorrow so hopefully I'll be able to have a gander through a few scopes.

Cheers again for all the answers, I'm so happy to have found such a helpful forum. Aussie based to boot!

Gareth