ToUcam or Meade Pro Deep Sky Imager

[Aster]

Need Help,

Am thinking of dappling in astro photography, both L/P and Deep Space. Never used CCD or any Video euipment for astro photography.

My last time was around 25 years ago with spectroscopic emulsions and special develepors. :)

Being a pensioner, not one of them rich ones either, MONEY is a factor.

Bintel at present advertising a big reduction in price on their Meade CCD Imagers.

The one I am looking at would be the Deep Sky Pro with Filer set for $309.00. Top limit of what the boss would let me spend.

I think, but not sure as I am still waiting for an answer, that qould be around the same as a ToUcam with adaptors and filter.

Which in your opinions would be the best way to go ? Camera would be used with an 10" F6 newtonian.

Thanks

Alexander

[[1ponders]]

If you are looking to go for Deep Sky the the DSI is the go, but for planetary then the ToUcam is the better option.

For shortish exposures you can use the DSI's drizzle function so you may not need to guide.

[iceman]

Hi Alendander.
As Paul said, the ToUcam is the best bet for lunar/planetary. You can pick them up (with adapter) for under $200. An IR filter would cost an additional $60-$80 but isn't necessary immediately.

The DSI's are best for Deep-Space imaging, and I wouldn't use it for lunar/planetary.

[Doug]

Alexander, I would suggest the webcam over the DSI especially with a 10"f6. Reason being that the webcam has smaller pixels and therefore better resolution for deepsky objects. The extra sensitivity of the DSI is offset by the larger rectangular pixels.
Typical Webcam resolution with 10"f6 += 0.8arcsec/pixel
resolution of DSI with 10"f6 = 1.17 arcsec/pixel
Webcam will out perform the DSI

Doug

[[1ponders]]

For DSOs though Doug, he would need the long exposure mod which will add another $100 to the cost. Besides it wouldn't be very often that you would get seeing to sub arcsec per pixel. 2 - 2.5 arcsec per pixel is usually the recommendation unless the seeing is exceptional or you have image assistance (Adapt optics)

[ballaratdragons]

Hi Alexander,

Even though I have very much enjoyed my DSO imaging with the modified Toucam, it will cost you more than you can get the Deep Sky pro for.

Approx $300 for the modified version Toucam (which you need for DSO's) and $75 - 100 for the IR filter.

But also, you will need a laptop with a parallel port, which are getting harder to find.

I can't answer as to the quality of the images from the Deep Sky Pro as I've never used one. I haven't been over-rapt with the images on the internet from them, but that could be the result of the user. With enough persistance, almost any camera will give results depending on how far you push it and learn it's limitations.

But if it is a Monochrome chip, it already has a head start over the Toucam, as Mono will give much better detail. But also, more fiddling with filters and colour combining in processing.

[[1ponders]]

If you want to see images by a DSI on Iceinspace then search for DSOs by EzyStyles. He has some pretty damn fine images using both the colour version and the mono with filters

[Tamtarn]

Hi Alexander

Here is a link to Eric's ( Ezystyles ) web site that Paul has suggested.
Paul is right about Eric's excellent images.

http://www.ezystyles.com.au

David

[Doug]

Yes I was going to refer to Easystyles too. I never could get a half way decent image out of my DSI, maybe I got a Friday afternoon job, I dunno, but there is no denying Easystyles artistry with one. Still, that said, I have seen more junk from DSIs than from any other imaging system.
Doug

[[1ponders]]

It does make a fine guide camera though ;)

[ballaratdragons]

Wow, Erics images look great when you have them all there in front of you. :thumbsup:

I didn't even know he had a website :shrug:

[Aster]

Hi Mike,

Where do you get a ToUcam for under $200 ??

The only place I have seen them adervertised for astro imaging was in South Australia. With adaptors way over $200.

Alexander

[Aster]

Hello All,

Thanks for your Answers. Left me really up in the air now :)

Choices, choices. Like someone said, Life wan't meant to be easy.

TattsLotto this Saturday and I will buy both.

But as my interest has always leant more toward deep space I may have to go for the Meade DSI Pro

Laptop I have 3 years old but good enough for what I want. Looks like it has a parralell port.

The Meade DSI has a monochrome Sony chip plus Filters . In other words, x number of images in red,blue ,green stack them and with a bit of luck there is some kind of image. Am I correct in that ? But I also can take black and white images only, Right ?

Talking about talking 50 or whatever 10 to 30 second images of one object, do they all have to be taken in the dame night , Or can they be spaced over a number of nights ?

See, I told you I don't know anything about all them new fangled thingos.

Alexander

[iceman]

Telescopes-Astronomy in SA was the place I was thinking of, but I know others have sourced them from ebay-stores overseas and can get the ToUcam itself delivered for under $100.

You can then get an adapter custom made by Mogg Adapters.

[[1ponders]]

Alexander, you can take your images over a number of nights though that does make it a bit trickier at times. Maybe think about the colour version first and then if the mood takes you, get the mono one and use it for Luminance shots.

What sort of telescope and mount are you using? Will it have the ability to autoguide? Astrophotography is a huge area to play in so it might be better is you tell us what you have in the way of existing equipment and then we can try to match camera to equipment. You never know, if you stretch it you might be better off with a DFK 21AF04.AS (http://www.astronomycameras.com/en/products/firewire-cameras/colorir/dfk21af04as/)colour camera which does great jobs on planets and then doubles up nicely for a Deep sky camera. Here is a sample of what you could get using the mono version http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=18298&highlight=DMK

[Aster]

[quote='[1ponders];240903']
What sort of telescope and mount are you using? Will it have the ability to autoguide? Astrophotography is a huge area to play in so it might be better is you tell us what you have in the way of existing equipment and then we can try to match camera to equipment.

OK, I will tell you a bit about myself. Am 70 years of age this year. Built my first telescope back in the late sixties, 8" newtonian. After playing around with various optics for a couple of years I made myself a 12.5" F6 Newtonian. The only thing I didn't make were the eypieces. This finioshed up my mine instrument for a long time. Superb Optics, even if I say so myself :)

My main interest was deep space photography. Black and White in them days. Tried all diferent films and emulsions availably at that time.

10 to 45 minutes manual offaxis guiding was the norm. 70 minutes was the longest, Crab Nebula, on spectroscopic emulsion, and it was CRAP.

Eyepiece projection of the moon and planets was a sideline. 36 to 72 exposures with 35mm film per session was nothing unusual. With a bit of luck one got half a dozen good shots after spending hours in the darkroom.

Due to various reasons I left the practical aspect of astronomy for around 15 years. This year the comet kindled my interest again.

So earlier this year I purchased a telescope, first ever comercial nade one, 180mm Maksutov on a Goto Mount. After a number of weeks I returned the instrument as on top of variuos problems the main mirror was npt even polished out.

With my refund I got myself a EQ6 Heavy Duty Mount and a Bintel 304mm Dobsonian. A few alteration were made and I finished up with an 12" Equatorial Mounted Reflector. Good Mount crap optics, will be exchaned next week, Optics I mean. In the meantime I draged an old 8" F5.6 Mirror out I still had from the past, realuminised it, paid money for a secondary, some reasonable good eyepieces and a bit of forma tube and have been using this waiting for the 304mm optics.

The other project is a 250mm F6 Newtonian which is in its final figuring stages, all other parts are made and ready to go.

So, I will be using either the 304mm F5, or the 250mm F6 on an EQ6 Mount the head of which is sittng on a steel pier embeded in a concrete block in my small backyard.

I am sure I can take 30 minutes unguided exposures, fluctuation in power and atmospheric turbulence, refraction not taken in account. I can put any star in a 20mm eyepiece and after 3 hours unattended the star is still in the field of view.

Imaging will be a totally new experience for me. Don't know a damn thing about it but the basics should be the same, I Hope. After all it is just a new medium :)

BTW, couldn't resist it, after everyone pointed me to different websides to look at some DSI results, and got myself the Meade DSI Pro with filters for $309. Have to wait a few weeks for the next shipment.

Alexander

[[1ponders]]

DSI is a good starting point. You certainly won't need to take 30 minute exposure with the DSI, probably the longest you will want to try for first up is 3 min maximum. You are looking at a capture medium that is 40 to 50 times more efficient than film. Even so at 3 min I would think that you might still need to do a bit of OAG. Or keep your exposures shorter.

Good luck with it:thumbsup:

[Aster]

Thanks for your advice. Will take everyones advice on board.

It has to be easier sitting in front of a computer, developing for want of a better word, then spending hours in a darkroom.

I probably be back with more questions when I get my DSI Pro.

Alexander

[Doug]

G'day Alexander, your EQ6 is a good mount, no doubt about it, however I think you will find that you will need to autoguide with it. I too have an EQ6 that has been set up correctly and can place an object on to a small chip. However any mount suffers to some extent from a problem called Periodic Error (PE) This is an effect caused by irregularities in the worm drive that cause the RA axis drive to speed up/slow down. One can carry out a proceedure called PEC training which tends to cancell out these errors, but it is a tedious proceedure for the EQ6 IMHO, and not all that flash. Still depending on your particular mount you might be able to get away with perhaps 5 min exposure, discarding the the odd one ruined by PE.
When setting up on a star and coming back 20mins, 60mins later and finding that the star is still there, all you have shown is that your alignment is pretty good, but it says nothing about periodic (8 minute cyclic) errors.
Healesville looks like it might have fairly polution free skies; if so you might push your exposures up to about 10 mins (guided), but I doubt you will do much better by taking longer exposures due to sky background. I have taken 15min subs with mine, but it is a waste of time because of the technicolour photon soup here where I am. But you will need to experiment to find what is best for your situation. One huge disadvantage of long exposures is the wasted time invested when things go wrong, on the other hand 30 shorter exposures require more file storage than fewer but longer exposures. One good thing about the DSI is the relatively small file sizes involved, though if doing RGB, there will be 3 times as many files than monochrome, and even more if you attempt LRGB.

cheers,
Doug

[Aster]

Hello Doug

I wasn't thinking on spending 5, 10 or more minutes guiding. My understanding of DSI is, or am I wrong, taking x number of exposures, say 30sec. or 1 minute and then stacking them with a computer program.

Healesville still has some reasonable dark skys, provided you can teach your neighbours to turn their bloody backyard lights of. But we also have rather cold and damp nights. Lots of heavy dew. Had to line my metal tube from my dobsonian with cork. Dew at times is that heavy that I had water dripping of it inside and out. Actually it worries me a bit with imaging and having my laptop out in the open. But we will see what happens.

Alexander

[Doug]

G'day Alexander,
Yep sounds about right. I have no experience with the monochrome DSI (DSI Pro), only the DSI colour. With that beasty anything over about 2 minutes gets a lot of amp glow; mostly this can be removed with dark frame subtraction. Again you wil need to find what works for you, but I think you are in for some fun.

cheers,
Doug

[dcalleja]

Alexander
I use a DSI for my imaging - main reason was\is price ie: I could not afford to 2-3K for one of the low end SBIG or similar type units. having said that my DSI Pro II was just over 1K!.

On RGB imaging - After months of effort I still see myself a rank amatuer in RGB imaging and am trying to learn just using mono for now. It's all great fun though whichever way you chose to go.