Removing of posts

[Exfso]

I have noticed a bit of a disturbing trend of late with the removal of peoples posts. I thought this was an open uncensored site where people could say what was on their minds as long as they stayed within posting guidelines.
I notice Paul aka Rumples Riot posted something similar last night and it has "disappeared". Is this some form of censorship or what. Maybe I am under the mistaken impression that this is an open forum.
The proof is in the pudding if this post disappears as well. All I can say if it does, so will a lot of members who like the idea of an open forum.
I can fully understand that we do not all agree on everything, damn life would be boring if we did, but if someone, moderator or otherwise disagrees with someone else's comment, they remove it, NOT ON! we live in Australia for God sake, and we are able to speak freely, or so I thought.
Isnt that what forums are about, OPEN DISCUSSION, or am I missing something here?
Just my 2cents worth. plus gst.!!!

:confuse3:

[xstream]

Hear Hear i have to agree....If it's bad language I understand the removal. But if it's because they don't agree with someones comments; I say stiff bickies.
I didn't think we lived in a socialist society yet! (even though some may disagree)

[iceman]

Peter,

Noone's posts are being removed for having an open discussion. If a post is deleted, it's probably because it violated the posting guidelines.

The site is not censored and I can assure you that in the > 7 months this forum has been running, the number of posts that have been deleted I could count on my hands and feet - and most of them were deleted due to spam and off-topic in serious threads.

Posts are not removed just because a moderator doesn't agree with what someone says. If you believe this does happen, please provide me an example and i'll follow it up. Especially if you claim it's a "disturbing trend".

If you're referring specifically to Paul's (rumples riot's) thread last night, then it was deleted by me due to the sensitive nature of the content, and it was a discussion that needs to happen in private between the moderators. It's not a discussion I'm about to see take place on an open forum.

If you believe there are other examples of where threads are deleted without warning or reason, please email or PM me with details because to my knowledge, it just doesn't happen. Other threads you thought had been deleted, had merely been moved to the appropriate forum. Sometimes redirects are left in the original forum, sometimes they're moved without a redirect.

If you have any questions or concerns, please feel free to contact me via email or PM if you want to discuss it further.

Thanks

[atalas]

Hey thats IT ive had enough! I want to see IT , my server was down last night. You cant tease us like this ! come on I want to see IT !


Louie:tasdevil:

[slice of heaven]

I didnt see anything wrong with RRs post but it depends on the way people interperet the content. Everyone has a different way of perceiving other peoples thoughts.

I feel this site is pretty open for discussing your thoughts and views, if it wasnt then we wouldnt be discussing this subject.

[Starkler]

For those that saw the posts being referred to, this is the story.
I thought I was quoting a post and had inadvertently hit the edit button instead of the quote button. They are adjacent to each each other for moderators.

I made an honest mistake and ended up mangling a post in error.
What followed after that was totally out of line and those comments were deleted by Mike. The bottom line is that all personal grievences should be handled in private and not in the open forum, as we want the forum to be a pleasant place for all.

[Vermin]

In another forum I frequent the moderators unlock a dedicated thread to post a quick comment on their actions and then lock the thread again.

There is also a dedicated thread for user comments on moderation.

Worth implementing here?

[iceman]

I'll give it some thought Tom.. interesting idea. Can you PM me the link so I can see it in action?

Anyone is welcome to comment on how moderation is handled, either by posting (in a constructive way) in the Website Feedback forum, or privately via PM or email.

A few months back, striker did exactly that by posting about spam being deleted (before the guidelines were introduced). Everyone had their say, cleared the air, and then they asked for the thread to be deleted so it didn't look like we were all a bunch of whingers :D

[Striker]

Those Twenty would be mine.....lol

I dont have a problem with my posts that have been delited.....I totaly supported this at the time and if I didn't I would have taken this up with Admin at the time.

I kind of enjoy the warning PM given by the moderators to me explaining the reason of the deletion........hehehehe

Keep up the good work boys.

[frogman]

Guys i agree with the deletion.... The way i see it the forum/website is owned by one person and managed by a few.. if the OWNER of the website decides to delete something because he os she does not find the content apropriate.....so what....deal with it....

I just get a little cheezed that people bi... and moan about something they have no right to...

Well done on the site and the running of it boys, youknow who you are !

Anthony
(My Opinion and if you dont like it .....delete it. :D )

[ving]

I agree with tony on this... the moderators have been fair to me. If i spam too much my post get deleted and I get PMed. I have no problem with this. :)

keep up the good work guys.

oh and try to keep complaints off the board (ie PM them).
thnx peeps!
your all the bestest!

[mojo]

pfft, as if anyone deleted your posts, Ving. never gonna happen. it's the cow, Ving....it's just so damn cute :D you do realise that you can never change that avatar now - kids just love that twitchy bovine.
i think it's time you gave it a name :P

[ving]

hmm... got an idea...

[atalas]

Well thats just great !I still don't know what was going on !



Louie:P

[iceman]

Read starkler post, then you will. Just ask me next time we meet up.

[atalas]

Hey are you talking to me Ice ?

Louie:P

[ballaratdragons]

I have had posts deleted. I even had a thread deleted.

And under the circumstances I fully understand why they were! They were not suitable for this forum.

Even though the current issue was a mistake, The Moderators aren't that harsh.
There is one post by a moderator that I would delete if I was able to, but it shows me that they occasionally let go too (to a limit).

[acropolite]

The golden rule is think then post....moderators too. :P

[ballaratdragons]

Think?

[atalas]

How I don't get paid to think!


Louie:P

[Exfso]

I think most of you guys have lost the plot. Oh well it was good for a while.

[iceman]

Sorry you feel that way Peter, I know you are friends with Paul but it appears you've only heard half the story and have made your mind up.

I urge you to discover all the facts before making up your mind, and I still request evidence of posts being deleted by moderators as part of this disturbing trend.

[iceman]

Peter I have PM'd you with the facts.

If you still choose to leave, then like Paul, there's nothing I can do about it.

[acropolite]

Mike Wrote


Mike please explain. Did Paul Leave?? :confuse2:

[mick pinner]

l don't know what caused this problem and to be quite honest l don't care, l joined this forum to share the love that l have for astronomy with like minded people and l must say l have enjoyed every moment, although Ving does leave me wondering sometimes "l also love the cow ". Most of us , l assume are grown men and women, and as such must deal with the realities of egos and contrary opinions, and those that have the responsability of monitoring posted comments aka the moderators, must be even more aware that this is so.
Moderators must not take it upon themselves to believe that their opinions are any more important or that their moral beliefs more righteous than the rest.
Personally l have seen no evidence of this although l must say l do enjoy a good Irish joke, political correctness has not quite caught up with me yet, l still favor a bit of humor, right Houghy.
lt is only natural that egos will cross paths and opinions will clash, we are no different than the rest of the world outside our piece of the internet called Ice In Space, but we have to put it down to experience and get back to why we are all here, our shared love of astronomy, l would not like to see even one member leave and as part of this group with an equal say, moderator or not, l urge a bit of back room discussion and find a solution to this tiff or any that may surface in the future. Mick Pinner.

[Mick]

Well said Mick Pinner.

Don't worry be happy :astron:

[Starkler]

Mick, my post earlier in this thread was a basic overview of what occured. The fact that the person involved chose to make nasty public posts before there was any chance for an explanation of the events ruined any chance for a satisfactory outcome.

As Mike has said, no moderators have deliberately edited or deleted posts because of a difference of opinion, unless such posts breach the forum guidelines are or inflammatory in nature (which hasnt happened before to my knowledge)
Healthy debate is encouraged !

I totally agree with your statement that we are here to talk about our shared love of amatuer astronomy. We want this forum to be a pleasant place to visit and enjoyable for all. I doubt that anybody enjoys reading threads like this or to see bickering in public.

It is most unfortunate that this thread had to be created, and if those concerned followed the correct procedure, the public unpleasantness could have been avoided and we would be talking about astronomy instead.

On the topic of rascist jokes. As this is a moderated public forum , it may be considered a publication in a legal sense, therefore we err on the side of caution as to what can be allowed to be 'published' on this site. The other consideration is that we dont want to cause offence to any racial or minority group and prefer to err on the side of political correctness. We are here for astronomy after all !

Finally, if anyone has any issues with the actions of any persons on the forums, moderators included, I urge them to send a PM and sort it out privately and to not air dirty laundry in public.

[slice of heaven]

That explains it now,Thanks Starkler.

Seems that if the forum guidelines were followed this situation might not have occurred. A pm definitely would have been the better option.


Well said Mick!!

[mick pinner]

l completely understand your stance on the subject of racially based jokes being aired on the forum and agree.

[ballaratdragons]

Paul is a valued member and 'Net' friend to many of us and we do hope that he has not left us forever. I, for one, get very helpful information from Paul and I enjoy seeing his pics and reading his posts.

Many months ago I lost my temper with moderators and deleted hundreds of my own posts, and spoke publicly against the moderators. It was a BIG mistake of me to do that. Had I dealt with it in PM as suggested above a lot of drama would have been avoided.

After my public thrashing of the site I was PM'd by moderators and a discussion was formed. As it turned out, none of my posts had been deliberatley deleted. I over-reacted to an accidental occurance. Even though I was angry at first I did not leave the site. There are too many people in here that I enjoy talking with to do that.

Now that the problem has been aired, I believe we can now get back to the subject at hand, Astronomy and 'General Chat' (of the constructive type) and hope that nobody ever leaves on bad terms.

Sorry to sound all serious.

[Striker]

I suppose with the ever growing forum like this....this was bound to happen eventualy.

I dont need to hear all the cicumstance but I hope Paul can come back as he was a valuable contributer to this forum in Both discussion's and moderating.

It would have been nice if this was sorted out behind the scenes but sometimes it's worth discussing in the first place.

Keep up the good work guys.....this includes everyone.

[cahullian]

I might be new and have one of my threads deleted but that is life.
I think the guys do a great job with keeping things running smooth in the forum.
There are topics and there are topics and this is a topic.
Sound Irish to you? he he just kidding : )
Keep up the good work guys

Gazz

[iceman]

As has been explained, it appears Paul has chosen to leave the forums. For that reason, I have removed him as a moderator. I'm sure everyone understands why. Of course he's still a member of the forums, his account has not been removed or deleted - he's more than welcome to come back any time he wants. And of course that's what we'd all love to see.

I understand Paul was angry at what happened, but logic and common sense should've shown that it was an accident, and explanation should've been sought before things took a turn for the worse.

As I've said a couple of times now, posts have never been deleted or edited because of a difference of opinion or to shutdown free speech or freedom of expression, by moderators or by myself. I urge anyone to come to me with evidence if they believe this has happened. Sometimes it may appear a post has been deleted if you see it one day and it's gone the next - but often times it's merely been moved to a more appropriate forum. So please check before jumping to conclusions, and PM or email me if you have any concerns or questions about it.

It's very unfortunate this has occurred, and that tempers were raised like they were. It's unfortunate Peter has also chosen to think the worst but I know he's just backing up his friend, and maybe I'd do the same if the situation were reversed.

As striker and Mick said, with a growing forum and growing member base, with people of all different personalities posting and communicating, things like this are bound to happen - it happens in all internet communities just as it would happen in "the real world" :)

Hopefully everyone will see this episode as a learning experience. I know from an admin side, i'll be looking at different options for logging moderator actions - moderating the moderators. Not because I don't trust them, but because it will hopefully prevent future issues from getting to the stage this one has, because there'll be proof of what posts have been edited/deleted and by who. It will be able to be sorted out well before it gets to boiling point.

Finally, and I've expressed this via email to Paul already, thanks to Paul for his valued contributions to IceInSpace in the time he was here, both as a member and a moderator. We'd all love to see him back.

[RAJAH235]

Well said, Mike. We all appreciate Paul's contributions to the site. I hope that he returns soon. Regards, L. :2thumbs: :) :)