WW2 B&L binoculars - worth restoring?

[paulF]

Gday,

Got a hold of a 1943 Original WWII U.S. Navy 7x50 Mark 28 Binoculars by Bausch & Lomb.

Optics are very clear and are in a really good condition for the age, with what i can describe a bit of chipping of the coating from the inside but that doesn't seem to interfere with the viewing experience. Only real fault on the set is a broken right hand side eye cup which again doesn't interfere with viewing.

Got in touch with a few places to see if they can be serviced and seems like it will be really costly. Around 500AU$ from what I can see.

Anyone had any experience with these before? Are they worth spending such money on them?

I wouldn't mind keeping them as is but if I spend such an amount of money restoring/servicing them, I would like to get some of that money back in case I end up selling them in the future.

Cheers

[Crater101]

My only experience with those binos is that my father had a pair of them from his WW2 Army days, and gove them to me when I was a lad so I could get a better look at Halleys Comet when it appeared back in the 80's. That was what got me started on astronomy.


It would be an expensive service, but my thought would be to get them restored, They're not common, and in good condition some militaria collectors would like to get their hands on a good set. If you decide to sell them, you may not make much money, but you probably won't lose a lot either.

[Leo.G]

Only a search on Google will show whether you may get your money back if you have the binoculars serviced. See what they sell for on places like eBay or Gumtree and see if the ads mentioned "recently serviced" or anything to do with condition.

A military buff may place more value on them or a collector but these people are getting harder to find and if you go to the major sources they don't want to pay for the stuff, they want it for as little as possible so they can sell them on and make a profit.
Were you to get them serviced and get some good use out of them then it would be worth doing, if they work well as they are don't have them serviced and save your money. If it's just hoping to make a profit in the future I'd never count on that personally.

It is the age of entitlement!

I have a pair of WWII field glasses belonging to a former Luftwaffe pilot, a late neighbour and friend who was a Major in the Luftwaffe.
He was interned in a camp at a young age and taught to fly, he had no choice in it. I believe they may have been Zeiss lenses, I must see if I can find them, I was sure they were up with my lenses.

I'm not sure they hold any value and in Germany collection of this stuff is deemed illegal. I also have his 3 jackets. One has the Swastika on it and it's done with gold, not gold thread, thin gold strips woven through the fabric as is banding on the collar, another jacket with just wings which I think may have been a parade jacket and his field jacket/trench coat, a very heavy winter jacket.
I've been trying to find somewhere that may be interested in taking them other than a friend who put his hand out fast thinking he may make a dollar. I really have no use for them to be honest. They were left to me by a late friend in the hopes his memory may be preserved.

I like old stuff and also have a matched pair of working communication phones which came off the HMAS Voyager during it's fit out. They hold value to a collector but again, same older friend put his hand out.
I've had them for a lot of years.

[paulF]

Thanks @Crater101 and @Leo.G

They are definitely keepers! Had a great session using them last night in Melbourne and they really excel for what they are at night time! They provide a really good immersive view compared to my other binos (Zenith Tempest 10x50 and Celestron 25x100 Skymaster). Should be outstanding in a dark site!

I agree with both of you gents about value, as in military buffs would pay more money for them and they do have some provenance behind them from what I understand but that is not why i bought them. I was initially thinking of donating them to some museum at first as I personally, like you @Leo.G, I admire and collect old things(French books...) and that was one of the main reasons I bought them. The other reason is me thinking that the optics would be good for night time viewing considering they are military grade.

Restoring was not about making a buck but more about it being economically sound and to be honest, i didn't think it through and assumed it will be cheap doing so.

After last night's session though, I am convinced that I will be keeping and enjoying them for years to come and will restore them when I feel a need for it and hopefully one day pass them to someone who would appreciate them.

Cheers

[Leo.G]

That sounds like a great use and as you've mentioned good optics for night vision. I haven't tried the German made field glasses at night, I can't remember where I put them (too much old junk) but I would assume good night vision but smaller than 50mm.
Do the pair you have have provision to tripod mount them?

[alpal]

Hi Paul,
nice find.
I am now wary of old optics after trying to clean a
1960s Eschenbach microscope that had a 45 degree prism in it.
The prism was held in place by some hard brown coloured glue.
I used a jewelers screw driver to gently scrape a large dust fluff ball
on the side of the prism and the whole prism cracked through the center.
Somehow the prism was under great strain - bad in itself for optics -
but even the slightest touch ruined it.
I can only speculate that flexible glue such as silicone was not used
but some hard type of epoxy or perhaps the glue
was flexible but went hard after 50 years?

Some microscopes and binoculars use a metal or plastic cradle
with screw adjustments to hold and align the prisms but
others - most of them - just glue them in place.
In any case if the binoculars ever need collimating or internal cleaning
it would be good to know how the prisms are mounted first?

Also - painting the binoculars?
Some collectors may prefer the original paint even if it's chipped.
It's better to let them decide if you plan on selling the binoculars.

cheers
Allan

[Leo.G]

Horse glue used to harden but I believe it was only used on porous surfaces.

[paulF]

Should definitely be worth finding those old German field glasses. You'd be surprised at how good they can be.

And no unfortunately, seems like they can't be put on a tripod.

[paulF]

Thanks for that Allan.

Yup, not going to risk doing anything myself and for now restoration is on the back burner. And yeah restoration can still be risky for such and old set and doubt even optics shops have replacement parts. The prisms on these are massive compared to Binos the same size!

And yeah I wasn't after painting or anything like that, more so restoration in regards to complete cleanup of optics and collimation but after last night's session, I'm more than happy to leave them be as they are sharp and clear enough for me to enjoy them.

[Leo.G]

Oh, not good field glasses, I forgot the Germans were basically broke towards the end of the second world war and they ARE very cheap and nasty units indeed . I disassembled them partially to take some photos, the eyepieces are held in the main tube with a very wobbly steel bar that goes up and down, thwe eyepiece end is all pressed metal which slides in felt rings that are very lose. Still could be unmarked Zeiss optics I don't know but very cheap pressed metal units.
I'll post photographs later, right now it's past my beauty sleep.
That's a fallacy, I've been doing the for 65 years and it's never helped. It's past time for my ugly nap.

[JeniSkunk]

My own binoculars are Carl Zeiss Jenna Dekaris 10x50 WWII German binoculars.
They have separate focusing for each eyepiece, rather than the far more common focusing knob on the centreline hinge.
My ones aren't totally original. Examining the markings of the strap and tab those came from a pair of Swarovski binoculars.
There's no way I'll be selling them.

edit: Forgot to attach photo

[OzEclipse]

7 x 50mm binoculars have an exit pupil of 7.1mm. If you are 15 years old, that's great. But if you are older, your maximum pupil dilation will limit the performance. Multiply the magnification by your pupil dilation to get the maximum aperture.

40 yo, you'll only get the light from about 42mm of aperture [7x6mm]
50 yo, you'll only get the light from about 38mm of aperture [7x5.5mm]
60 yo, you'll only get the light from about 35mm of aperture [7x5mm]

In a dark sky under fully dark adapted conditions and depending upon your age, a pair of 10x50 should transmit much more light to you eyes than the 7 x 50's.

I recently went through this exercise, selling a pair of 9x63 Orion binoculars with excellent optics to someone 20 years younger than me because my eyes were only extracting

9 x 4.8mm = 43mm equivalent aperture worth of light. I confirmed this observationally the view being near identical to a pair of 10x42mm binoculars.
I then purchased a pair of 15 x70mm Celestron Skymaster Pro binos and the sky exploded with light.

Joe

[Buck]

Hi Paul,

If you're not already a member of Cloudy Nights (CN) forums, then it might be worth your while to think about joining. Among the many astronomy specific sub forums, there is one dedicated to 'Binoculars'. There are lots of discussions on various vintage binoculars with collectors offering insights and knowledge of not only many different models, but also experience in how to go about cleaning, restoring. adjusting etc.

Of course, the latest and greatest (binoculars) are also included in discussions.

Joe Cali's explanations regarding useful exit pupil sizes relative to ageing is 'generally' true, but there are always exceptions with some older observers claiming near 7mm pupil dilation into their 70's - not me though unfortunately.

Regards,
(another) Paul

[paulF]

They do look like keepers indeed. Originality is cool but I think clarity of optics is what matters most. A few old german optics binoculars keep on popping up on Facebook markets here and then. Would definitely be buying a pair when the next one pops up!

[paulF]

Cheers Joe, very informative post.

[paulF]

Thank you Paul.
Yup, i've been reading up a lot on the model i have on Cloudy Nights. Seems like a lot of members on there regard them highly and i can tell why now after using them a few nights in a row.

And yeah i agree about pupil dilation and exit pupil, varies a lot between individuals. Lots of different variables that make a binocular/telescope viewing session enjoyable so best thing to do IMO is to try as many as possible and stick with what works for ones own needs.